Merged: Flacco Progression Continues To Improve

[berad]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1290447393' post='547983']
I knew my post would get merged with this one, i spent like 10 minutes or more writing that crap up...no one reads it
[/quote]

Don't hate the playa, hate the game. Threads concerning similar ideas will be merged, it's better and more efficient to have on thread going than two or more concurrent ones.

I read it and agreed with most everything you said. I would've +1'd it but the board is giving me a message saying my "quota" for positives has been filled for the day. Odd.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Kwothdaraven' timestamp='1290425011' post='547809']<br />No offense but that post was pretty retarded, you talked about accuracy and included the alltime leader in interceptions.<br /><br />You need to watch other games than just ravens games if youthink flacco is so horribly inaccuarate. Manning, brady, bress all overthrow and underthrow multiple times in every single game they play. Its not a flacco thing like you think. The difference with those guys is that they are setup to succeed in the passing game. Those teams send 4 and 5 guys down the field on every single play and have great offensive schemes. The ravens have a pretty bad offensive scheme and only ever send 2 recievers and todd heap down field. Occasianally they will send more but not often. Its actually pretty remarkable how well flacco is doing despite being handicapped by his offrnsive coordinator<br />[/quote]


Yeah man, I loved watching Peyton throw the game away last night, just as an indirect 'screw you guys' to people who bash Flacco or are constantly criticising him (not many Ravens fans do that anymore, but there are a lot of outsiders who still do). Joe's accuracy has improved quite a bit this season. Every QB makes bad throws, every game.

But regarding your comment about Favre; you should keep in mind that INTs are more often the result of a bad decision, not so much as an inaccurate pass. In fact, Favre is probably the ultimate example of that.

[PuRock]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1290448720' post='548000']
Don't hate the playa, hate the game. Threads concerning similar ideas will be merged, it's better and more efficient to have on thread going than two or more concurrent ones.

[b]I read it and agreed with most everything you said. I would've +1'd it but the board is giving me a message saying my "quota" for positives has been filled for the day. Odd.[/b]
[/quote]

Man you are just filled with love. How do you max out with positive +1s. You are in an elite group with Wacko.

[berad]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1290449445' post='548008']
Man you are just filled with love. How do you max out with positive +1s. You are in an elite group with Wacko.
[/quote]

Hahaha, I didn't even know you could max out. Plus, I don't recall giving an absurd number. I have a lot of things to +1!

[darklight1216]

When asked if he called his own plays:

[quote]"Nope, not true," said Flacco. "That ain't happening. I can change out of some plays, but I definitely didn't call my own plays."[/quote]

Why, Cam, why?

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1290375557' post='547063']
First 300 yard game of the year, a 110+ QB rating, no turnovers [i](fumble was on Rice)[/i], a solid win on the road.. you can't really fault Flacco for his play this week or, really, since Week 2. Nothing but improvement from the big man, I like it.

Go Ravens!
[/quote]

Joe took full responsibility for the fumble since he executed the wrong play! It was supposed to be a play-action, end-around.

[berad]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1290453953' post='548069']
Joe took full responsibility for the fumble since he executed the wrong play! It was supposed to be a play-action, end-around.
[/quote]

Darn it, Joe! I knew it was too good to be true Send him to the bench!

[scrock]

Flacco is really becoming a franchise QB, if the defense hadn't let Atlanta go the length of the field and score everyone would have been talking about how Joe led another come from behind win on the road instead of how great Matt Ryan is and if the Ravens defense is on the decline.

Flacco should go to the Pro Bowl imo but probably wont because no one really sees him or knows how good he is or wants to admit that he is that good...lol

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1290540579' post='549174']
Flacco is really becoming a franchise QB, if the defense hadn't let Atlanta go the length of the field and score everyone would have been talking about how Joe led another come from behind win on the road instead of how great Matt Ryan is and if the Ravens defense is on the decline.

[b]Flacco should go to the Pro Bowl imo but probably wont because no one really sees him or knows how good he is or wants to admit that he is that good...lol[/b]
[/quote]

Joe is the man but he doesn't deserve to go to Hawaii with Rivers, Brady and Peyton playing at the level they are currently.

[scrock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1290541040' post='549183']
Joe is the man but he doesn't deserve to go to Hawaii with Rivers, Brady and Peyton playing at the level they are currently.
[/quote]

I can't argue that they all 3 have better numbers at this point but Flacco has his team at a better record than both Manning and Rivers...and he went into New England and played as good if not better than Brady

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1290541040' post='549183']<br />Joe is the man but he doesn't deserve to go to Hawaii with Rivers, Brady and Peyton playing at the level they are currently.<br />[/quote]

The stats definitely bear you out, as Flacco is behind those three:


Flacco, Joe TDS - 16 INT - 7 YDS - 2,433 RTG - 92.1
Manning, Peyton TDS - 20 INT - 7 YDS - 3,059 RTG - 94.2
Brady, Tom TDS - 19 INT - 4 YDS - 2,362 RTG - 100.6
Rivers, Philip TDS - 23 INT - 9 YDS - 3,177 RTG - 105.0


But look at that!! Our third year QB is giving us 97% of the production that Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Philip Rivers.
And just imagine ... those other three guys are on teams with weak running games, and have to throw the ball 40+ times a week. How good would Flacco's stats be playing in a system where he throws as often as those guys do???

For example, Manning has 438 pass attempts already. Flacco has 330 pass attempts. Those extra 108 pass attempts got Manning 4 more TDs and 600 more yards than what Flacco has. Given the same amount of attempts, Flacco would surpass Manning in both those categories. Imagine that....our very own Joe Flacco, on a per attempt basis, is outplaying Peyton Manning.

[scrock]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1290541711' post='549191']
The stats definitely bear you out, as Flacco is behind those three:


Flacco, Joe TDS - 16 INT - 7 YDS - 2,433 RTG - 92.1
Manning, Peyton TDS - 20 INT - 7 YDS - 3,059 RTG - 94.2
Brady, Tom TDS - 19 INT - 4 YDS - 2,362 RTG - 100.6
Rivers, Philip TDS - 23 INT - 9 YDS - 3,177 RTG - 105.0


But look at that!! Our third year QB is giving us 97% of the production that Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Philip Rivers.
And just imagine ... those other three guys are on teams with weak running games, and have to throw the ball 40+ times a week. How good would Flacco's stats be playing in a system where he throws as often as those guys do???
[/quote]

As I just stated Flacco doesnt have their numbers yet but he has his team with a better record except for the Patriots....Wins count to me more than stats.

[hammer]

[quote name='Kwothdaraven' timestamp='1290425011' post='547809']
No offense but that post was pretty retarded, you talked about accuracy and included the alltime leader in interceptions.

You need to watch other games than just ravens games if youthink flacco is so horribly inaccuarate. Manning, brady, bress all overthrow and underthrow multiple times in every single game they play. Its not a flacco thing like you think. The difference with those guys is that they are setup to succeed in the passing game. Those teams send 4 and 5 guys down the field on every single play and have great offensive schemes. The ravens have a pretty bad offensive scheme and only ever send 2 recievers and todd heap down field. Occasianally they will send more but not often. Its actually pretty remarkable how well flacco is doing despite being handicapped by his offrnsive coordinator
[/quote]

Wow! Retarded? Now that wasnt nice, but Ill move on. What I am actually talking about is Joe Flacco, not really about Bret Favre. And my point has to do with Joes development - in particular, his mechanics and accuracy. I am speaking relative to how important they are to greatness at the position.

The most telling barometers of accuracy are not int's or even completion percentage. It shows up in the "yards after catch" category. Completions can come from recievers reaching back or coming back for the ball, leaping high over the defender or taking the ball from him. Point: many inaccurate throws are completed passes.

A perfect example was the game Todd Heap played. He was exceptional, but only because of Joes accuracy (hitting him in stride at a full gallop). Heap had more yards after the catch (YAC)than I have ever seen him as a Raven. This had more to do with Joes perfectly developed accuracy.

All of the great QB's are accurate throwers. Jerry Rice and TO for example, have a lot of yards after the catch. That's because they have ALWAYS played with accurate passers. Kurt Warner is another who comes to mind in St. Louis and Arizona. He MAKES recievers more productive because of his accuracy. Pittsburg recievers get a lot of YAC also because of Bens Accuracy.

Joe threw the ball beautifully in this last game. His 300 passing yards was not because of his completion ratio, it was because of his accuracy. This is a sign of greatness and I recognized him for it. Thats all I was saying.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1290545348' post='549261']
Wow! Retarded? Now that wasnt nice, but Ill move on. What I am actually talking about is Joe Flacco, not really about Bret Favre. And my point has to do with Joes development - in particular, his mechanics and accuracy. I am speaking relative to how important they are to greatness at the position.

The most telling barometers of accuracy are not int's or even completion percentage. It shows up in the "yards after catch" category. Completions can come from recievers reaching back or coming back for the ball, leaping high over the defender or taking the ball from him. Point: many inaccurate throws are completed passes.

A perfect example was the game Todd Heap played. He was exceptional, but only because of Joes accuracy (hitting him in stride at a full gallop). Heap had more yards after the catch (YAC)than I have ever seen him as a Raven. This had more to do with Joes perfectly developed accuracy.

All of the great QB's are accurate throwers. Jerry Rice and TO for example, have a lot of yards after the catch. That's because they have ALWAYS played with accurate passers. Kurt Warner is another who comes to mind in St. Louis and Arizona. He MAKES recievers more productive because of his accuracy. Pittsburg recievers get a lot of YAC also because of Bens Accuracy.

Joe threw the ball beautifully in this last game. His 300 passing yards was not because of his completion ratio, it was because of his accuracy. This is a sign of greatness and I recognized him for it. Thats all I was saying.
[/quote]
Well said and most knew where you were going with your post (sorry if I misspoke when I responded as to what you were saying in your post when it was originally questioned).

[hammer]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1290547483' post='549301']
Well said and most knew where you were going with your post (sorry if I misspoke when I responded as to what you were saying in your post when it was originally questioned).
[/quote]

I was actually grateful for your reply. I didn't have time to respond. But your translation was indeed correct.

thx.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1290547868' post='549310']
I was actually grateful for your reply. I didn't have time to respond. But your translation was indeed correct.

thx.
[/quote]
Werd....always happy to assist

[scrock]

"Is QB Joe Flacco an elite quarterback? Since entering the league in 2008, he’s 30-17, a record that trails only Indianapolis’ Peyton Manning (34-12) and New Orleans’ Drew Brees (31-13). The Ravens are 19-3 when Flacco posts at least a 95.0 passer rating.

- QB Joe Flacco ’s 107.7 passer rating since Week 3 is best in the league. He’s thrown 15 TDs against 2 INTs during that span. Kansas City’s Matt Cassel is second with a 104.6 passer rating during that span, followed by San Diego’s Philip Rivers (104.5)."

[darklight1216]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1290645828' post='550279']
"Is QB Joe Flacco an elite quarterback? Since entering the league in 2008, he’s 30-17, a record that trails only Indianapolis’ Peyton Manning (34-12) and New Orleans’ Drew Brees (31-13). The Ravens are 19-3 when Flacco posts at least a 95.0 passer rating.

- QB Joe Flacco ’s 107.7 passer rating since Week 3 is best in the league. He’s thrown 15 TDs against 2 INTs during that span. Kansas City’s Matt Cassel is second with a 104.6 passer rating during that span, followed by San Diego’s Philip Rivers (104.5)."
[/quote]
What article is that from?

[scrock]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1290646911' post='550290']
What article is that from?
[/quote]

Wasn't from an article I don't think, I got it from the Ravens RapidReports.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/BAL

[1/28/01]

Not sure if this had been mentioned or not, but Flacco is now the Ravens all time TD leader for QB's (crazy that it only took 2 and 1/2 years).

[darklight1216]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1290665439' post='550467']
Not sure if this had been mentioned or not, but Flacco is now the Ravens all time TD leader for QB's (crazy that it only took 2 and 1/2 years).
[/quote]
I think the blogs said that he's tied for with Boller (51).

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1290666335' post='550472']
I think the blogs said that he's tied for with Boller (51).
[/quote]

Yes he is tied with Boller, his first TD sunday will give him the record.

[rlh445]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1290645828' post='550279']
"Is QB Joe Flacco an elite quarterback? Since entering the league in 2008, he’s 30-17, a record that trails only Indianapolis’ Peyton Manning (34-12) and New Orleans’ Drew Brees (31-13). The Ravens are 19-3 when Flacco posts at least a 95.0 passer rating.

- QB Joe Flacco ’s 107.7 passer rating since Week 3 is best in the league. He’s thrown 15 TDs against 2 INTs during that span. Kansas City’s Matt Cassel is second with a 104.6 passer rating during that span, followed by San Diego’s Philip Rivers (104.5)."
[/quote]

I haven't read any subsequent replies to this, but I just wanted to point out that it's likely that most teams whose starting QBs post at least 95 or better passer rating win the games more likely than not.

[hammer]

I wonder if there is any stats which reveal a QB's "yards after catch." This is a great barometer for QB Accuracy and I believe it holds the key to a deadly passing attack. I can't remember any Ravens QB with this kind of attribute since Vinnie Testerverde. Joe looks to be developing this way. I am not certain if the QB rating take this to account, but I can assure you that all the great recievers are keenly aware of it.

[Ravensfan23]

I think these next 4 games could be huge for Joe. If Joe comes up huge in these games, he'll start to become one of the feared QBs in the NFL. Names like Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rivers come to mind. IMO it's the difference between a defense playing their style of ball and a defense breaking tendencies and playing a little more timid. Example, we've never been able to use a heavy blitz package against Peyton, Brady or Rivers, in fear of what will happen if we don't get to them.

A look at the next 4 games and this is why I think this stretch could be huge for Joe.

TB has a really solid pass defense and are one of those teams that we should beat. If Joe and the offense comes out starts fast and show that killer instinct, it could go a long way.

We all know what we will get out of that Steelers game. However their pass defense hasn't been a strength for them this year. If Flacco can have a Brees/Brady like performance it would be huge. Now before anyone thinks I'm getting carried away and expecting too much out of Joe, remember he had 248 yards and a TD the first game. The offense wasn't nearly as in sync as they are now and he still should have had at least 1 more TD in that game. So a 300+ 2TD performance is not unthinkable for Joe.

After that we would have Houston on MNF. That will be a primetime game coming off of a playoff like game vs the Steelers. If Joe continues to play the way he has, he should have a really good game vs that Texans secondary and build some momentum for this offense going into the Saints game.

The NO game will be a game that probably gets moved back to 4:15. It's against the defending champs and they say to be the best you gotta beat the best. I see this as more of a defensive statement game, but if Joe can out play Brees it'll be a huge confidence builder.

Now Joe doesn't have to play lights out in these game, if the Ravens still won it wouldn't be a problem. However, if Joe came up huge in these next for games, would anyone have any concerns about Joe heading onto the Playoffs? I say no.

[hammer]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1290707543' post='550602']
I think these next 4 games could be huge for Joe. If Joe comes up huge in these games, he'll start to become one of the feared QBs in the NFL. Names like Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rivers come to mind. IMO it's the difference between a defense playing their style of ball and a defense breaking tendencies and playing a little more timid. Example, we've never been able to use a heavy blitz package against Peyton, Brady or Rivers, in fear of what will happen if we don't get to them.

A look at the next 4 games and this is why I think this stretch could be huge for Joe.

TB has a really solid pass defense and are one of those teams that we should beat. If Joe and the offense comes out starts fast and show that killer instinct, it could go a long way.

We all know what we will get out of that Steelers game. However their pass defense hasn't been a strength for them this year. If Flacco can have a Brees/Brady like performance it would be huge. Now before anyone thinks I'm getting carried away and expecting too much out of Joe, remember he had 248 yards and a TD the first game. The offense wasn't nearly as in sync as they are now and he still should have had at least 1 more TD in that game. So a 300+ 2TD performance is not unthinkable for Joe.

After that we would have Houston on MNF. That will be a primetime game coming off of a playoff like game vs the Steelers. If Joe continues to play the way he has, he should have a really good game vs that Texans secondary and build some momentum for this offense going into the Saints game.

The NO game will be a game that probably gets moved back to 4:15. It's against the defending champs and they say to be the best you gotta beat the best. I see this as more of a defensive statement game, but if Joe can out play Brees it'll be a huge confidence builder.

Now Joe doesn't have to play lights out in these game, if the Ravens still won it wouldn't be a problem. However, if Joe came up huge in these next for games, would anyone have any concerns about Joe heading onto the Playoffs? I say no.
[/quote]

Great Post. I agree wholehearedly.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1290699177' post='550556']<br />I wonder if there is any stats which reveal a QB's &quot;yards after catch.&quot;  This is a great barometer for QB Accuracy and I believe it holds the key to a deadly passing attack.  I can't remember any Ravens QB with this kind of attribute since Vinnie Testerverde.  Joe looks to be developing this way.  I am not certain if the QB rating take this to account, but I can assure you that all the great recievers are keenly aware of it.<br />[/quote]


to continue our discussion in another thread, isn't this an indication that stats are a by product of a players skill? As you said yourself, "this is a great barometer of a QB's accuracy...",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[RoflDogs]

I seriously expect Joe to throw 400+ yards against Houston. They are AWFUL

Then again, Cam Cameron will probably run 90% of the time

[hammer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1290714398' post='550669']
,


to continue our discussion in another thread, isn't this an indication that stats are a by product of a players skill? As you said yourself, "this is a great barometer of a QB's accuracy...",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

but i dont think they keep this as a stat. thats the point. it is an extremely important aspect of the game but it is probably not possible to measure it accurately. sacks allowed is another immeasurable stat. but where is the thread this is duscussed?

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1290699177' post='550556']
I wonder if there is any stats which reveal a [b]QB's "yards after catch." [/b]This is a great barometer for QB Accuracy and I believe it holds the key to a deadly passing attack. I can't remember any Ravens QB with this kind of attribute since Vinnie Testerverde. Joe looks to be developing this way. I am not certain if the QB rating take this to account, but I can assure you that all the great recievers are keenly aware of it.
[/quote]

There is, and here's a [url="http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=231"]link[/url].
We (Flacco) are ranked 20th with 1036 YAC. The Chargers have 1611, Colts have 1295 and the Patriots have 1186.

Flacco has 2433 Yards.
Manning has 3059.
Rivers has 3177.
Brady has 2703.

2433 - 1036 = 1397 (Flacco, 330 attempts)
3059 - 1295 = 1662 (Manning, 438 attempts)
3177 - 1611 = 1566 (Rivers, 353 attempts)
2703 - 1186 = 1517 (Brady, 356 attempts)

So "pure" passing yards per attempt:

Flacco - 4.23
Manning - 3.79
Rivers - 4.43
Brady - 4.26

Also, projecting Flacco's numbers over Manning's attempts:
7.4x108 = 799
16/330 = 0.048x108 = 5
7/330 = 0.021 = 2

Which would, theoretically give Flacco:

3232 yards
21 TDs
9 Picks