MERGED: Mattison Complaint Threads

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289578518' post='538659']
Ha, thank God you're here man. Mattison is certainly not perfect, and it took him almost a year before he and the rest of the defense got comfortable with each other. That said, continually pointing to his schemes (and half the people saying this don't even know what his schemes are, nor do they have any intention of actually finding out) but not providing alternate ones they think would be a better fit for the defense isn't very convincing. A lot of fans just don't want to admit that Rex's schemes were only half the battle, and that the talent he had to work with was the other half. If you took the Ravens defense from 2000 and stuck 'em with Matty, we'd be looking a million times better, period. Saying, 'blitz more!' and then saying, 'stop blitzing!' and 'cover this guy with five guys and rush 12' is just an idiotic way of looking at it and isn't even realistic in the slightest. Overall I think he's been calling some good games this year, and all this bashing is just a result of hindsight being 20/20 and players just not being as talented than in years past. Let it go people..we just aren't as talented on the defensive side of the ball as we used to be, and yet we're still more than competitive.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more.

[rlh445]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' timestamp='1289578578' post='538666']


6. I want my old defense back.
[/quote]

We agree!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1289572758' post='538462']
Break out the pitchfork guys!!!! We going eat some Mattison tonight!
[/quote]
Ahhhhh its been too long since I've participated in a pitchfork and torch riot.


Seriously though, we need a young physical corner. Y'all remember when C-Mac FIRST came into the league and how big, physical and cocky he was? While at the same time being able to cover. Damn I loved that.

[CorvusCorax]

I will say this however. His run defensive plan was pretty effective.

We held Turner to 39 yards.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' timestamp='1289578869' post='538680']
I will say this however. His run defensive plan was pretty effective.

We held Turner to 39 yards.
[/quote]
He finally used Cody at NT for the majority of his snaps and low and behold, Turner had nowhere to run.

[rlh445]

I didn't know Shawn and Triple H were at the game last night..apparently they got to talk? What'd they say, lol.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='Trilogique' timestamp='1289539608' post='537783']
not necessarily. Suggs got a sack with 3 people rushing, didn't he?

blitzing at the end was super, super dumb IMO. Wilson got torched on that last play because of it. but hey that's why I'm not a defensive coordinator.
[/quote]


If by torched, you mean pushed down, then yes, Wilson got torched.

[Whitty Hutton]

I agree that the personel of the defense doesnt allow ANY defensive scheme to be but so affective. Put men in coverage and the dline cant get to the QB, blitz and the db's cant cover a NCAA #2 receiver. I dont know what the solution is outside of replacing people

Anyone remember a game agianst the Colts a few years ago when Ryan had the D lining up in all these crazy positions? Linebackers were lined up as corners, safeties on the line with linemen dropping back...it was wild. But gone are Adalius, Cmac, Rolle, Bart Scott, so Mattison has no choice but to go vanilla most the time unfortunately

[wayne]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1289576440' post='538574']
I'm not being a smart ***, you simply have no way to respond to the points I'm making and and certainly no way of backing up the points you made so you have resorted to name-calling. I defend Mattison because for the criticism he takes from fans like you, I haven't seen single rational alternative to what he's doing. I've noticed a common unsaid belief that "if the scheme is the "right one"(which you cant' even explain to me), it'll beat whatever the opposing team is trying to do". You're in denial that the talent on this D has fallen off but want to criticize me and others for trying to defend a coach.




That's my opinion! Am I not entitled to it? So you want to get rid of Mattison; who do you bring in?

It's posts like this that amuse me. You sound like you have all the answers during your criticism but never provide legitimate solutions or alternatives.



We can go back to '05, '07 and the two times in '08 to see game where Rex's defenses were destroyed so what's your point?

But let me ask you, can you name one player that the team has signed or drafted since Mattison took over that has truly made a big impact?
[/quote]
I explained to u about a page ago which schemes will be the right one for this team. Funny just you and a few disagree overall withs whats being said about Mattison. We look at the game just like you do and from our opinion , we feel its more the scheme than the team, THATS OUR WHOLE POINT WRAPPED UP IN A NUT SHELL! Of course, we know the players we have ain't world beaters but the question is, do Mattison know this? For his style of play where he expects his players to win one - on - one battles on a consistent basis without any trickeration / confusion ( Labuea and Rex is not even that crazy to have that much faith in their personnel , thats why they do more zone blitzes / confusion of the D, they just don't expect their players to win their one - on - one battles most of the time, those Ds would get tourched just like ours if they were schemed to do that ), one would assume that Mattison feel our personnel is alot better than what we giving them credit for. Hopefully this post give you more understanding of what we are saying, we agree with you in alot of ways but most of us feel Mattison doesn't give us the best chance for our D to be all it can be.

For the people seemingly complaining b/c another negative Mattison thread has been made, you do know the D this year has lost two games for us this year just about and its a looming problem that we have going deeper into the season against some teams thats going to scorch us if we continue to play like this. My IMO from that Atl game is if Mattison would have been mixing up the blitzing with just rushing our front 3-4 players throughout the course of the game, atleast on that last drive we could have shown blitz a few times and have the players drop back and it would have made those 3-4 man rushes work more, just saying!

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289578518' post='538659']
Ha, thank God you're here man. Mattison is certainly not perfect, and it took him almost a year before he and the rest of the defense got comfortable with each other. That said, continually pointing to his schemes (and half the people saying this don't even know what his schemes are, nor do they have any intention of actually finding out) but not providing alternate ones they think would be a better fit for the defense isn't very convincing. A lot of fans just don't want to admit that Rex's schemes were only half the battle, and that the talent he had to work with was the other half. If you took the Ravens defense from 2000 and stuck 'em with Matty, we'd be looking a million times better, period. Saying, 'blitz more!' and then saying, 'stop blitzing!' and 'cover this guy with five guys and rush 12' is just an idiotic way of looking at it and isn't even realistic in the slightest. Overall I think he's been calling some good games this year, and all this bashing is just a result of hindsight being 20/20 and players just not being as talented than in years past. Let it go people..we just aren't as talented on the defensive side of the ball as we used to be, and yet we're still more than competitive.
[/quote]
This. All draft picks and free agent acquisitions need to go to our pass rush, corners, and our O-Line next offseason.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='EnVy_CaLiBeR' timestamp='1289580205' post='538725']
This. All draft picks and free agent acquisitions need to go to our pass rush, corners, and our O-Line next offseason.
[/quote]
Id agree if this years WR class wasnt so ridiculously stacked with guys that could be Flacco's WR for the next 10 years in the first 2 rounds. Which means we'll likely miss out on an impact player in the first 2 rounds on defense.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1289580072' post='538720']
I explained to u about a page ago which schemes will be the right one for this team. Funny just you and a few disagree overall withs whats being said about Mattison. We look at the game just like you do and from our opinion , we feel its more the scheme than the team, THATS OUR WHOLE POINT WRAPPED UP IN A NUT SHELL! Of course, we know the players we have ain't world beaters but the question is, do Mattison know this? For his style of play where he expects his players to win one - on - one battles on a consistent basis without any trickeration / confusion ( Labuea and Rex is not even that crazy to have that much faith in their personnel , thats why they do more zone blitzes / confusion of the D, they just don't expect their players to win their one - on - one battles most of the time, those Ds would get tourched just like ours if they were schemed to do that ), one would assume that Mattison feel our personnel is alot better than what we giving them credit for. Hopefully this post give you more understanding of what we are saying, we agree with you in alot of ways but most of us feel Mattison doesn't give us the best chance for our D to be all it can be.

For the people seemingly complaining b/c another negative Mattison thread has been made, you do know the D this year has lost two games for us this year just about and its a looming problem that we have going deeper into the season against some teams thats going to scorch us if we continue to play like this. My IMO from that Atl game is if Mattison would have been mixing up the blitzing with just rushing our front 3-4 players throughout the course of the game, atleast on that last drive we could have shown blitz a few times and have the players drop back and it would have made those 3-4 man rushes work more, just saying!
[/quote]

No, you didn't. The "schemes" you suggested where game-specific and truthfully, I've never seen a defense commit four guys to two offensive players and I challenge you find me a game or even a play where it has happened.

You're wrong about LeBeau and Rex. For as much trickery and confusion they throw out, [b]their players still one-on-one battles[/b]. Harrison, Woodley an Timmons(when he's asked to blitz) do their jobs. You seem to believe that the by employing exotic schemes, the D is guaranteed to succeed when obviously, that isn't the case.

I noticed Mattison blitzing at times and dropping a good amount of people into coverage other times all game. Just go to NFL.com and watch Ryan's highlights. Mattison gave Ryan numerous looks but they rarely worked.

[rlh445]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1289580072' post='538720']
I explained to u about a page ago which schemes will be the right one for this team. Funny just you and a few disagree overall withs whats being said about Mattison. We look at the game just like you do and from our opinion , we feel its more the scheme than the team, THATS OUR WHOLE POINT WRAPPED UP IN A NUT SHELL! Of course, [b]we know the players we have ain't world beaters but the question is, do Mattison know this?[/b] For his style of play where he expects his players to win one - on - one battles on a consistent basis without any trickeration / confusion ( Labuea and Rex is not even that crazy to have that much faith in their personnel , thats why they do more zone blitzes / confusion of the D, they just don't expect their players to win their one - on - one battles most of the time, those Ds would get tourched just like ours if they were schemed to do that ), one would assume that Mattison feel our personnel is alot better than what we giving them credit for. Hopefully this post give you more understanding of what we are saying, we agree with you in alot of ways but most of us feel Mattison doesn't give us the best chance for our D to be all it can be.

For the people seemingly complaining b/c another negative Mattison thread has been made, you do know the D this year has lost two games for us this year just about and its a looming problem that we have going deeper into the season against some teams thats going to scorch us if we continue to play like this. My IMO from that Atl game is if Mattison would have been mixing up the blitzing with just rushing our front 3-4 players throughout the course of the game, atleast on that last drive we could have shown blitz a few times and have the players drop back and it would have made those 3-4 man rushes work more, just saying!
[/quote]

No, I'm quite sure Mattison doesn't know more about the relative talent level of his defense better than a random guy on the Internet. Please continue.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289580486' post='538728']
Id agree if this years WR class wasnt so ridiculously stacked with guys that could be Flacco's WR for the next 10 years in the first 2 rounds. Which means we'll likely miss out on an impact player in the first 2 rounds on defense.
[/quote]

I'd sooner the team wait till round 3 or 4 to pick up a WR. If they want to address the o-line in the first two rounds, it should be an o-lineman.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289580704' post='538735']
No, I'm quite sure Mattison doesn't know more about the relative talent level of his defense better than a random guy on the Internet. Please continue.
[/quote]
no offense to Wayne, but that made me laugh lol

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1289580748' post='538737']
I'd sooner the team wait till round 3 or 4 to pick up a WR. If they want to address the o-line in the first two rounds, it should be an o-lineman.
[/quote]
Im kind of interested in leaving Yanda at RT, he matches up better than taller Ts against Pittsburgh's shorter powerful edge rushers. We just need a RG to replace Chester who is a total psycho in run blocking. Chester didnt move Babineaux off the line once last night.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289580774' post='538738']
no offense to Wayne, but that made me laugh lol
[/quote]

. I aims to please!

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

WR can get addressed in later rounds like stated above. It is stacked as hell this year. But the nonexistent pass rush has to get addressed in the first round or I will lose my head.

[noy]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1289552068' post='538204']
See, this is one of the few reasonable criticisms of Mattison. Take notes, Mattison haters!

I agree that Mattison could better disguise the rush, but it has absolutely nothing to do with shuffling people around. And by the way, people shifting all over the place is one of the reasons we used to get burnt for big plays so often under Ryan, but I digress.
Let's break it down to simple football strategy.. Football 101, if you will.

What is the one of the main purposes behind a 3-4 front? If you said, 'To better disguise where the rush is coming from', you are correct! We all (should) already know that. But why is that? Why does it disguise the blitz better? This is a little less obvious, but still fairly basic. The DL are there for one reason only - to eat up blockers. That's it. That means it is up to the LB to apply the pressure. So you have four linebackers. Who's blitzing? The two guys just standing there on the edges? The ILB who is crouching over the DT's shoulder? Simple...you dont know. Movement is not needed to create confusion. The very formation itself is what creates the confusion, because the blitz could literally be coming from anywhere, or nowhere at all, unlike a 4-3 defense where you already know that more often than not, the DE's and either a LB or safety is coming in.
Ryan's movement of players was most effective when run out of a 46, not when we had three linemen. But as I alluded to earlier, that had it's drawbacks. It worked out of a 46 because that meant coverage was getting bumped right before the snap, and after the QB already made his pre-snap reads, so that meant the QB had little time to adjust. However, it also meant that defensive players were assigned poor matchups, sometimes players had to give their assignments more space because they were dropping into a zone from god knows where, and sometimes miscommunication and missed assignments resulted as a by-product of 'organized chaos'. One thing you can say about Matty's defense is that we rarely see guys blowing their assignments or miscommunicating, and this is why.
So be careful what you wish for...
[/quote]

That may be true about the 3-4 already disguising the rush, but there is a clear difference in the defense I am seeing right now. I think it's that vanilla may still hide who is coming, but what Rex's defense did so beautifully was hide from [i]where [/i]the blitz was coming from. The QB could be thinking, "OK, it looks like Ray's blitzing...he's going to shoot A gap...*blocking audible*...he just moved to B gap...now he's 5 yards off the line...is he blitzing after all?...play clock is down to 5...AHHHHHH *pray* HIKE!"

The fact of the matter is, giving a quarterback more to think about is a better tool for success. More things to decipher, more things to be stressed about. Even if the blitz doesn't work, the additional stress may make him off target, or throw into double coverage. I think Reed fed off of this aggressive nature especially, because when a QB is under pressure he can read them like a book. Although, I think that is why Peyton had such great success against us in the past; he does't stress out and is always studying. BUT, I firmly remember he would have some pretty bad stretches against Rex's defense, it's just that the offense could never score enough points to keep pace. That's a different story now.

Back in the 08 season, who did Rex have in the secondary? A declining Rolle and CMac? Corey freaking Ivy and Frank Walker? The only familiar face is Fabian. To me, I think we have a better secondary now than we did then, why else did Ozzie pay Foxworth so much money? Fox isn't playing, but the depth we have now + the talent is better. Webb and Rolle are a wash, Wilson and [the declining] CMAC of 08 are a wash, Fabian is Fabian, and we get the bonus of Carr against the likes of Frank and Corey (which is laughable). So the talent of the secondary is up to standards, so the front seven is up for questioning.

5 of our front 7 starters are the same as what Rex had. 2 starters should not be the sole purpose of the drop off we have been seeing. And if it is, Mattison needs to use what he's got to compensate. Bring back the chaos, because I think the reward outweighs the risk. Looking at Rex's stats in 08 isn't the only indicator I need, I [i]saw [/i]the difference and it was fantastic.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289580899' post='538739']
Im kind of interested in leaving Yanda at RT, he matches up better than taller Ts against Pittsburgh's shorter powerful edge rushers. We just need a RG to replace Chester who is a total psycho in run blocking. Chester didnt move Babineaux off the line once last night.
[/quote]

No, he did not. If Yanda stays at RT, then the team truly needs to find a mauling guard because only being able to rip off chunks of yards running to one of the line s embarrassing.

Grubbs was frustratingly inconsistent last night too.

[AsianRice]

First of, our O-line did a poor job protecting Joe. Michael Oher got beat by Abraham several crutial times. Joe were getting beat all night long. Protection wasn't there.


Secondly, on the defense our coverage seemed to be lost couple times. Our secondary exposed so many soft spot due to the fact our QB pressure wasn't there because our Bliz were just so obvious. We have talent to get to the QB but our scheme tonight showed we need to work more on our design of pass rush.

Lastly, we can't cover one on one against best recievers in the league, especially tonight against White.

PS: Where is our franchise defense?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1289581309' post='538747']
Back in the 08 season, who did Rex have in the secondary? A declining Rolle and CMac? Corey freaking Ivy and Frank Walker? The only familiar face is Fabian. To me, I think we have a better secondary now than we did then, why else did Ozzie pay Foxworth so much money? Fox isn't playing, but the depth we have now + the talent is better. Webb and Rolle are a wash, Wilson and [the declining] CMAC of 08 are a wash, Fabian is Fabian, and we get the bonus of Carr against the likes of Frank and Corey (which is laughable). So the talent of the secondary is up to standards, so the front seven is up for questioning.

5 of our front 7 starters are the same as what Rex had. 2 starters should not be the sole purpose of the drop off we have been seeing. And if it is, Mattison needs to use what he's got to compensate. Bring back the chaos, because I think the reward outweighs the risk. Looking at Rex's stats in 08 isn't the only indicator I need, I [i]saw [/i]the difference and it was fantastic.
[/quote]

McAlister played 5 games in '08 and while Rolle was declining, he graded out as one of the best CBs in the league that year. So to say Webb and Rolle are a "wash" is incorrect. I'll agree with McAlister in his 6 games that year is comparable to Wilson. However, Fabian was a better player then than he is today. On top of that, Ed is a few step quicker.

5 of the front 7 starters being the same isn't the whole story. Again, Ray, J.J., Gregg have all declined since then. And the combination of Redding and McKinney isn't better than Pryce was in '08 either.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1289581936' post='538761']
First of, our O-line did a poor job protecting Joe. Michael Oher got beat by Abraham several crutial times. Joe were getting beat all night long. Protection wasn't there.


Secondly, on the defense our coverage seemed to be lost couple times. Our secondary exposed so many soft spot due to the fact our QB pressure wasn't there because our Bliz were just so obvious. [b]We have talent to get to the QB but our scheme tonight showed we need to work more on our design of pass rush.[/b]

Lastly, we can't cover one on one against best recievers in the league, especially tonight against White.

PS: Where is our franchise defense?
[/quote]

The Ravens have the talent to get to the QB? Suggs aside, whose a consistent pass rusher on this team?

[wayne]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289580704' post='538735']
No, I'm quite sure Mattison doesn't know more about the relative talent level of his defense better than a random guy on the Internet. Please continue.
[/quote]
You think b/c the way he schemes tell me different . You can drop the " random guy on the internet " crap, we are all random guys on the internet that voice our opinion and we all have been critics at one point of time on this forum, do that mean we should shut up about it just b/c we randoms on the internet and they are coaches thats getting paid millions and if thats the case, you need to stuff it too, boy, I hate hyprocites. Pretty sure I can found numerous threads with you criticising something about the coaches or the players, you a random internet guy so from now on out, no more criticism from you, obviously , the coaches and the players know alot more than you do,LOL. Do Rex depend on the Jets to win their one - on -one battles also? I neva said Labuea doesn't expect them to win their one - on -one battles sometimes, but not all the time.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1289582162' post='538768']
You think b/c the way he schemes tell me different . You can drop the " random guy on the internet " crap, we are all random guys on the internet that voice our opinion and we all have been critics at one point of time on this forum, do that mean we should shut up about it just b/c we randoms on the internet and they are coaches thats getting paid millions and if thats the case, you need to stuff it too, boy, I hate hyprocites. Pretty sure I can found numerous threads with you criticising something about the coaches or the players, you a random internet guy so from now on out, no more criticism from you, obviously , the coaches and the players know alot more than you do,LOL. [b]Do Rex depend on the Jets to win their one - on -one battles also? I neva said Labuea doesn't expect them to win their one - on -one battles sometimes, but not all the time.[/b]
[/quote]

What are you talking about? They [expect they're players to win one-on-one battles some times]? What the heck does that even mean? One-on-one battles involve d-lineman beating offensive lineman to get pressure, LBs playing their zone properly, DBs playing tight coverage and not blown coverages or missing tackles. It doesn't who is calling the plays or what damn scheme is in place, if the players don't do their jobs, the team fails.

Just like you expect a QB to throw accurate passes, WRs to catch balls and execute the play as it's drawn up, you expect the same from defensive players. At crucial moments this year, Ravens players simply haven't made a play.

[noy]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1289581986' post='538764']
5 of the front 7 starters being the same isn't the whole story. Again, Ray, J.J., Gregg have all declined since then. And the combination of Redding and McKinney isn't better than Pryce was in '08 either.
[/quote]

OK, so not a wash, but it still points to our secondary being up to comparable standards.

They [i]could [/i]be declining, but you can't say that for sure when the scheme's are this different. They could not be getting the help that they once did from Rex's defensive scheme.

What I'm saying is, those players fit that mold of defense much better. It shows up visually and statistically. If they get put back into a similar system, then don't turn up, you can safely say that the players aren't up to par. But until then, there isn't any evidence to suggest that the players diminished skill is the reason we give up a large chunk of yards almost every game.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1289582650' post='538776']
OK, so not a wash, but it still points to our secondary being up to comparable standards.

They [i]could [/i]be declining, but you can't say that for sure when the scheme's are this different. They could not be getting the help that they once did from Rex's defensive scheme.

What I'm saying is, those players fit that mold of defense much better. It shows up visually and statistically. If they get put back into a similar system, then don't turn up, you can safely say that the players aren't up to par. But until then, there isn't any evidence to suggest that the players diminished skill is the reason we give up a large chunk of yards almost every game.
[/quote]

Not that '08's secondary was infinitely better but I'd take the '08 version of Ed, Samari and Fabian with Leonhard's solid play and over the current unit.

Of course I can say their declining physical skill has been part of the team's giving up yards. Gregg has been a shell of himself this year, we're seeing Ray struggle to get off blocks and missing tackles more than ever and J.J. has obviously struggled a lot too. I don't know what '08's schemes would do to hide that. Just look at the Browns game and tell me what Gregg is declining and I can't remember the amount of times J.J. has been blocked down this season.

Like a writer on The Sun asked when was the last time a player other than Ray, Ed, Ngata or Suggs made a "wow" play?

EDIT: And I forgot about Ed. Look at the simple out White scored on to make the score 20-7. Tell me Ed doesn't get a hand on the ball or at least force an incompletion two or three seasons ago.

It's a declining unit man. Drafting more offensive players than defensive ones, especially in the early rounds the past 4-5 years has led to the decline.

[wayne]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1289582630' post='538775']
What are you talking about? They [expect they're players to win one-on-one battles some times]? What the heck does that even mean? One-on-one battles involve d-lineman beating offensive lineman to get pressure, LBs playing their zone properly, DBs playing tight coverage and not blown coverages or missing tackles. It doesn't who is calling the plays or what damn scheme is in place, if the players don't do their jobs, the team fails.

Just like you expect a QB to throw accurate passes, WRs to catch balls and execute the play as it's drawn up, you expect the same from defensive players. At crucial moments this year, Ravens players simply haven't made a play.
[/quote]
Why do you think Labuea and Rex dial up those exotic blitzes? If they expect their players to win one - on -one battles all the time then they would simply do what your boy Mattison is doing now. Those schemes are in place to bring confusion to the O-line and QB. They are drawn up to depend less on your players beating their one - on -one b/c if that was the case, everyone would just run Cover 2 / Tampa 2 like schemes . O-Lines these days are too good to expect your man to consistently win their one - on -one battles . I even heard a Steelers fan complain B/c they were blitzn less ( less than their norm ) just running a Cover 2 type scheme and when they do that, he said they often get scorched. The scheme matters more than the team / personnel , anyone that knows football knows that.

[noy]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1289583280' post='538787']
Not that '08's secondary was infinitely better but I'd take the '08 version of Ed, Samari and Fabian with Leonhard's solid play and over the current unit.

Of course I can say their declining physical skill has been part of the team's giving up yards. Gregg has been a shell of himself this year, we're seeing Ray struggle to get off blocks and missing tackles more than ever and J.J. has obviously struggled a lot too. I don't know what '08's schemes would do to hide that. Just look at the Browns game and tell me what Gregg is declining and I can't remember the amount of times J.J. has been blocked down this season.

Like a writer on The Sun asked when was the last time a player other than Ray, Ed, Ngata or Suggs made a "wow" play?

EDIT: And I forgot about Ed. Look at the simple out White scored on to make the score 20-7. Tell me Ed doesn't get a hand on the ball or at least force an incompletion two or three seasons ago.

It's a declining unit man. Drafting more offensive players than defensive ones, especially in the early rounds the past 4-5 years has led to the decline.
[/quote]

You're basing their performances on two different platforms of defense. Mattison has more of an individually accountable defense (the reason why he thinks the defensive line should be able to pressure the QB with no help), while Rex used all of the players to compliment each other, disguising weaknesses and enhancing strengths. Because of this, of course Mattison's D is going to highlight a "decline" in players ability, but you cannot say that is the defining characteristic of the poor performances.

You can't hold a parallel comparison of players when the system is different. You're underestimating environmental forces affecting the player's skill. If we had Rex's defense, things would be completely different; teams would scheme differently for it, and players would play differently in it.

[wayne]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1289582650' post='538776']
OK, so not a wash, but it still points to our secondary being up to comparable standards.

They [i]could [/i]be declining, but you can't say that for sure when the scheme's are this different. They could not be getting the help that they once did from Rex's defensive scheme.

[B] What I'm saying is, those players fit that mold of defense much better. It shows up visually and statistically. If they get put back into a similar system, then don't turn up, you can safely say that the players aren't up to par. But until then, there isn't any evidence to suggest that the players diminished skill is the reason we give up a large chunk of yards almost every game.[/B]
[/quote]
Bump........Bump..... No ****,lol ( no offense to you , being sarcastic to the other guys that simply can't grasp this common sense statement. This is basically what most are saying, bring back the Organized Chaos scheme and put away the Colts scheme. Winning one - on -one battles is very important in the scheme that Mattison has been trying to install here every since he came but in the Organized Chaos scheme , its less important , still important , just less important and I'm strictly talking bout getting pressure on the QB, not our secondary. You see free guys coming at the QB alot of times under the Organized Chaos / Rex scheme, its designed for overload blitzes to one side of the O-line but at the same time confusing the O-line as well as the QB not knowing who is coming are dropping. Hell, lots of time, Rex just bring more than you can block, Rex obviously gives little care about his players winning their one - on -one battles ( talking bout strictly the front 7, not the secondary ) when he is dialing up those blitzes .

I remember a few years ago when Romo said it took him 3 quarters to found out who was playing what, 3 quarters . That element of confusion on the QB is a major factor in any game obviously . Now, you pretty much see what you get, no confusion at all, solely depending on your players to win their one - on -one battles all the time. Its a reason majority of the teams in the league have gotten away from the 4-3 fronts, they want the element of confusion in their which is the 3-4 D.