Dear Ozzie, Part 2

[Alexir]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289542272' post='537987']
I snort when I laugh sometimes, my bad. Whatevs, bro. The fact that you're actually trying to argue that the talent Mattison has under his control is equal to the talent that Rexy did, means you're not even actually trying to say anything.
[/quote]

Bro? Ugh....[img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img]

Who did we lose when Rex left? I named the 2 old cornerbacks that everyone wanted benched or cut. I named the linebacker that some of you though was a headcase and caused too many penalties. Is it Jimmy Leonhard? was he you're favorite!? Did you like Jimmy, Bro?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289542211' post='537984']
But we still manged without a healthy Pryce, Rolle and McAlister who as some of you were saying, still in their prime in the 2006 season. Ray Lewis even missed some time as I recall.

And not to change the subject or make excuses but in 2007 when was our Defense not on the field?
[/quote]
We didnt manage at all we were 22nd in points allowed that year.

[Alexir]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289542367' post='537993']
Yea, that's really freakin' strange isn't it? Fans, blaming the players for playing badly? Yea, we're really off the mark here. [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img]
[/quote]

Josh Wilson played a good game but the fact he didn't get help from safetys was concerning. Washington came in and made a nice tackle or two. Landry played very poorly but yet I can't think of someone on the Falcon's D I would want on my team besides Abraham. Please name someone on their defense that you rather have as a starter.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289542569' post='538005']<br />We didnt manage at all we were 22nd in points allowed that year.<br />[/quote]


Dont bother, I already see where this is going...

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1289542729' post='538018']
Dont bother, I already see where this is going...
[/quote]
To Rex's system not being as good as everyone thinks unless he has cover corners? Cuz thats where Im taking it.

[JIVE1000]

[quote name='Shawn`' timestamp='1289538992' post='537713']
You can't be serious.

It was the coordinators fault Oher let everyone through the line?

It was the coordinators fault CB's got dished by Roddy White throughout the whole game?

It was coordinators fault the defense let ATL drive down the field 91 yards then 80 yards in 50 seconds?

Have you ever once considered that maybe our players just got outplayed?
[/quote]

Thats just the point. Its the coaching staffs job to attempt to guide these players and replace as necessary where continued problems exist. Yes it's the coordinators fault when the same things happen game after game. The defense has been unable to stop offensive drives game after game. You want me to name them. I've seen them all. Something is wrong. The staff should sit some players down or send them packing if they cannot perform. Leadership is necessary for any team to work properly. Yes it's the coordinators fault!!!

[flynismo]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289542779' post='538019']&lt;br /&gt;To Rex's system not being as good as everyone thinks unless he has cover corners?  Cuz thats where Im taking it.&lt;br /&gt;[/quote]<br /><br /><br />I understand that, but if you haven't noticed, he's just going to ignore all your points and bring the conversation full circle. Let's see him address your point above before you waste any more of your breath talking to a wall.

You and I both know that having Cmac and Rolle will greatly enhance a pass rush, but he'll ignore that too. Or say something silly like we wanted to cut them after Rex already used them for all they are worth.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289542569' post='538005']
We didnt manage at all we were 22nd in points allowed that year.
[/quote]


Well we are one injury to Ray Lewis away from being the same as 2007. And like I said we were 4th in amount of punts and the defense is going to be tired from having an abysmal offense.

It is what it is. I just wish this 2010 team had some "face" to it. We are pretty much average on all 3 phases.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289542541' post='538004']
Bro? Ugh....[img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img]

Who did we lose when Rex left? I named the 2 old cornerbacks that everyone wanted benched or cut. I named the linebacker that some of you though was a headcase and caused too many penalties. Is it Jimmy Leonhard? was he you're favorite!? Did you like Jimmy, Bro?
[/quote]

Haha, I have no idea what you're talking about at this point. Your point was that Rex's scheme ruled, and the play of the players wouldn't matter as long as we had Rex's schemes. I merely pointed out that your attempts to downplay the quality of players Rex had while he was here compared to the guys Mattison has didn't work very well. What does 'bro' have to do with it? Are strawman arguments that lead nowhere your only method of debate? Probably.

[Alexir]

[quote name='JIVE1000' timestamp='1289542891' post='538021']
Thats just the point. Its the coaching staffs job to attempt to guide these players and replace as necessary where continued problems exist. Yes it's the coordinators fault when the same things happen game after game. The defense has been unable to stop offensive drives game after game. You want me to name them. I've seen them all. Something is wrong. The staff should sit some players down or send them packing if they cannot perform. Leadership is necessary for any team to work properly. Yes it's the coordinators fault!!!
[/quote]

Ah finally, someone gets its! High five for not being like the other 99% of the people on here.

[Alexir]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289543037' post='538026']
Haha, I have no idea what you're talking about at this point. Your point was that Rex's scheme ruled, and the play of the players wouldn't matter as long as we had Rex's schemes. I merely pointed out that your attempts to downplay the quality of players Rex had while he was here compared to the guys Mattison has didn't work very well. What does 'bro' have to do with it? Are strawman arguments that lead nowhere your only method of debate? Probably.
[/quote]

What players are we missing from when Rex was here from 2007-2008. What players would make our defense better?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289542970' post='538025']
Well we are one injury to Ray Lewis away from being the same as 2007. And like I said we were 4th in amount of punts and the defense is going to be tired from having an abysmal offense.

It is what it is. I just wish this 2010 team had some "face" to it. We are pretty much average on all 3 phases.
[/quote]
I dont think it would go from top 10 to bottom 10, but ill agree about the "face" thing. It seems like we still have some growing to do before we can take the cake.

[JIVE1000]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289542367' post='537993']
Yea, that's really freakin' strange isn't it? Fans, blaming the players for playing badly? Yea, we're really off the mark here. [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img]
[/quote]

You miss the point. Who decides which players play? Who determines when to make changes? Who is in charge here? That's exactly the point. If players don't play then who decides to let them keep playing? Every army needs a general. I don't see one here. I do believe that the coordinators are trying. I also believe they are in over their proverbial heads. We need some outside expertise here. Why do some teams consistently do well no matter who the players are? Think before you speak. The players may be at fault. But who is it who decides when to bench or replace bad players. Duh!!!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289543178' post='538031']
What players are we missing from when Rex was here from 2007-2008. What players would make our defense better?
[/quote]

Ray and Gregg are both older, Pryce fell of the map this year but in '07 and '08, he was still getting pressure and being held o-lineman. Samari and McAlister circa '07(when they were on the field) and Rolle in '08 are better than any CB on the Ravens right now.

[Alexir]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1289542941' post='538024']
<br /><br /><br />I understand that, but if you haven't noticed, he's just going to ignore all your points and bring the conversation full circle. Let's see him address your point above before you waste any more of your breath talking to a wall.

You and I both know that having Cmac and Rolle will greatly enhance a pass rush, but he'll ignore that too. Or say something silly like we wanted to cut them after Rex already used them for all they are worth.
[/quote]

What worth did Cmac have in 2007 when he missed so many games and was eventually placed on IR? What worth did he have during Harbaugh's benching? Same with Samari? What point are you making? Why don't you straight up answer that instead of side stepping it.

Was Cmac and Rolle shut down corners in those 2 years? Because those are the seasons I have mentioned and are continually mentioning but you guys want to mention names like Thomas and how shut down CMac was in 2006.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289543360' post='538037']
What worth did Cmac have in 2007 when he missed so many games and was eventually placed on IR? What worth did he have during Harbaugh's benching? Same with Samari? What point are you making? Why don't you straight up answer that instead of side stepping it.

Was Cmac and Rolle shut down corners in those 2 years? Because those are the seasons I have mentioned and are continually mentioning but you guys want to mention names like Thomas and how shut down CMac was in 2006.
[/quote]
Samari Rolle in 2008 was FAR superior to anything we have right now. Look nobody is saying Mattison is as good a DC as Rex,thatd be an outright lie. But Mattison isnt exactly working with the same pieces Rex had here either.

[JIVE1000]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289543240' post='538033']
I dont think it would go from top 10 to bottom 10, but ill agree about the "face" thing. It seems like we still have some growing to do before we can take the cake.
[/quote]
Not sure what face is but the Ravens need some jacking up. Too much inconsistency. Too much abysmal play. Too many teams going down the field unstopped. Too many panic throws by Flacco. Too many holes in the offensive line. Too many holes in the coverage of other teams receivers. Shall I go on. It doesn't look like a team we can trust to get through the playoffs successfully.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1289543349' post='538036']
Ray and Gregg are both older, Pryce fell of the map this year but in '07 and '08, he was still getting pressure and being held o-lineman. Samari and McAlister circa '07(when they were on the field) and Rolle in '08 are better than any CB on the Ravens right now.
[/quote]

Ok, well age is always a factor, I agree with you with that. But I just have trouble understanding people (not necessarily you) who praise and support our coaching staff and Ozzie Newsome (who is a great GM) but somehow blame the talent. Isn't that all tied together? Isn't Ozzie getting the talent or is he to blame? Shouldn't the coaching staff put the best team on the field?

We have Gregg's replacement in Cody and I like how Harbs is limiting his snaps (saw a lot of him tonight which was cool!) and slowly grooming him in the NFL especially coming off an injury.

Maybe the 3-4 isn't his cup of tea. He was a 4-3 guy in college!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289543722' post='538050']
Ok, well age is always a factor, I agree with you with that. But I just have trouble understanding people (not necessarily you) who praise and support our coaching staff and Ozzie Newsome (who is a great GM) but somehow blame the talent. Isn't that all tied together? Isn't Ozzie getting the talent or is he to blame? Shouldn't the coaching staff put the best team on the field?

We have Gregg's replacement in Cody and I like how Harbs is limiting his snaps (saw a lot of him tonight which was cool!) and slowly grooming him in the NFL especially coming off an injury.

Maybe the 3-4 isn't his cup of tea. He was a 4-3 guy in college!
[/quote]
Cody was impressive tonight I thought.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289543808' post='538057']
Cody was impressive tonight I thought.
[/quote]

Very Impressive. I think if we are to keep Mattison switching to a 4-3 would be amazing with Ngata and Cody in the middle....Forget the Williams Wall! No Idea who would play DE opposite Suggs though, I guess Kruger? JJ, Ray, Ellerbe as 3 LBs? Where does Kindle go? Is inside linebacker a high priority in the draft? A lot of questions on defense. A lot...

[JIVE1000]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289542367' post='537993']
Yea, that's really freakin' strange isn't it? Fans, blaming the players for playing badly? Yea, we're really off the mark here. [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img]
[/quote]
You can blame players all day long (and all night). But unless those in charge put them in their place nothing will change. That's why there are coordinators, coaches, whatever you want to call the heirarchy. Ever see Bellichicks teams faulter because of bad players. His teams are always in the hunt. Remember when Brady went down? Along came Castle and bingo he was coached to perfection by the people in charge. Case closed. Fire some players. Watch the others play better. Pussyfoot around and they'll continue to do the same things over and over.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289544042' post='538066']
Very Impressive. I think if we are to keep Mattison switching to a 4-3 would be amazing with Ngata and Cody in the middle....Forget the Williams Wall! No Idea who would play DE opposite Suggs though, I guess Kruger? JJ, Ray, Ellerbe as 3 LBs? Where does Kindle go? Is inside linebacker a high priority in the draft? A lot of questions on defense. A lot...
[/quote]
Looking ahead we have a lot of questions on offense too. Mason, Housh, and Stallworth all could be gone next year and we don't have anyone waiting in the wings to step up IMO. For all the improvements our offense has made this year it would all wash away if we had to rebuild our WR core.

Same with Ray and Ed's eventual replacements on defense. Its sorta like whats happened with the Orioles. I don't see any playmakers in the farm system ready to step up in the next year or two to fill voids created by guys leaving. Heck...we never properly filled Bart Scott's position.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='JIVE1000' timestamp='1289544157' post='538068']
You can blame players all day long (and all night). But unless those in charge put them in their place nothing will change. That's why there are coordinators, coaches, whatever you want to call the heirarchy. [b]Ever see Bellichicks teams faulter because of bad players. His teams are always in the hunt. Remember when Brady went down? Along came Castle and bingo he was coached to perfection by the people in charge.[/b] Case closed. Fire some players. Watch the others play better. Pussyfoot around and they'll continue to do the same things over and over.
[/quote]

Have they won any Super Bowls since the likes of McGinest, Law, Harrison, Bruschi, Seymour and others left? Belicheck's teams are certainly well-coached but if they're so well-coached, why were they mauled by the Browns? Why isn't Brady putting up statistics he did in '07?

*scratches chin*

[size="1"]players[/size]

[rlh445]

[quote name='JIVE1000' timestamp='1289543312' post='538034']
You miss the point. Who decides which players play? Who determines when to make changes? Who is in charge here? That's exactly the point. If players don't play then who decides to let them keep playing? Every army needs a general. I don't see one here. I do believe that the coordinators are trying. I also believe they are in over their proverbial heads. We need some outside expertise here. Why do some teams consistently do well no matter who the players are? Think before you speak. The players may be at fault. But who is it who decides when to bench or replace bad players. Duh!!!
[/quote]


No, you're missing the point. Teams don't just throw players out like a bit of dirty laundry if they're not playing superbly, because this is the real world kiddo, and that's just not how professional sports works. There is a cap, there are a finite number of players, and a finite number of trades/deals that can be made in one season. That's what keeps the NFL from being about who has the most money, and gives this sport much more parity. [b]Par·i·ty[/b], look it up. Every army needs a general, pfft. When a general goes into battle, he doesn't always have the luxury to just throw 'bad' soldiers back and grab someone else. He has to do the best with what he's got. We have plenty of generals on the defense, and I'm sure you wouldn't discount Ed or Ray of not being so..or maybe you would. Maybe you should head over to Dallas, I hear they've been having actual problems with bad coordinating and head coaching. Everybody knows who's in charge, and thank GOD it's not you. I have the utmost faith in our FO to get things right. We lost a hard fought game in someone else's house on a short week and despite playing poorly, still almost stole one. Our PLAYERS gave that up, not our scheme..or did you miss where he had them stopped cold before a flag bailed them out..by the way, can you coach to not get bad calls? I thought not. Our coaches didn't get beat tonight, our players did, DUH!!

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289543360' post='538037']<br />What worth did Cmac have in 2007 when he missed so many games and was eventually placed on IR?[/quote]

Quite apparently, A LOT, since as was already pointed out to you, our defense was garbage that year without McAlister.


[quote]
Same with Samari?
[/quote]

If you even have to question how well Samari played, particularly in 2008, then there is no point continuing this discussion.

[quote]
Was Cmac and Rolle shut down corners in those 2 years? Because those are the seasons I have mentioned and are continually mentioning but you guys want to mention names like Thomas and how shut down CMac was in 2006.<br />[/quote]


They were FAR superior to anything we have on the field right now. FAR superior.

And why bother mentioning just those two players? What about all the other players that I pointed out to you? Why are you sidestepping that? Hmm?

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1289544381' post='538077']
Have they won any Super Bowls since the likes of McGinest, Law, Harrison, Bruschi, Seymour and others left? Belicheck's teams are certainly well-coached but if they're so well-coached, why were they mauled by the Browns? Why isn't Brady putting up statistics he did in '07?

*scratches chin*

[size="1"]players[/size]
[/quote]

19-1 is impressive. The one loss was the SuperBowl but come on, that Defense was old but still played pretty darn good.

Brady doesn't need to throw for yards. He justs asks the refs nicely for them.

[Alexir]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289544413' post='538079']
No, you're missing the point. Teams don't just throw players out like a bit of dirty laundry if they're not playing superbly, because this is the real world kiddo, and that's just not how professional sports works. There is a cap, there are a finite number of players, and a finite number of trades/deals that can be made in one season. That's what keeps the NFL from being about who has the most money, and gives this sport much more parity. [b]Par·i·ty[/b], look it up. Every army needs a general, pfft. When a general goes into battle, he doesn't always have the luxury to just throw 'bad' soldiers back and grab someone else. He has to do the best with what he's got. We have plenty of generals on the defense, and I'm sure you wouldn't discount Ed or Ray of not being so..or maybe you would. Maybe you should head over to Dallas, I hear they've been having actual problems with bad coordinating and head coaching. Everybody knows who's in charge, and thank GOD it's not you. I have the utmost faith in our FO to get things right. We lost a hard fought game in someone else's house on a short week and despite playing poorly, still almost stole one. Our PLAYERS gave that up, not our scheme..or did you miss where he had them stopped cold before a flag bailed them out..by the way, can you coach to not get bad calls? I thought not. Our coaches didn't get beat tonight, our players did, DUH!!
[/quote]


I laugh at the stuff you write. You really shouldn't call people Kiddo. It's a little degrading and you don't even know the person.

And the whole team got beat tonight. If you think the coaches didn't get beat tonight, you are sorely mistaken, master bro kiddo.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289544697' post='538089']
I laugh at the stuff you write. You really shouldn't call people Kiddo. It's a little degrading and you don't even know the person.

And the whole team got beat tonight. If you think the coaches didn't get beat tonight, you are sorely mistaken, master bro kiddo.
[/quote]

Oh, I only threw that in because his post was insulting to me as he told me to 'think' while I speak and then added an unnessecary 'duh' to the end of his post. is there an ignore function? I have to admit, you're a superb troll, kiddo. WOW, the entire team got beat tonight? I only thought the Baltimore Ravens (aka, the entire team) got be..wait a minute?!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289544554' post='538084']
19-1 is impressive. The one loss was the SuperBowl but come on, that Defense was old but still played pretty darn good.

Brady doesn't need to throw for yards. He justs asks the refs nicely for them.
[/quote]

19-1 is very impressive but did they win the game? That D was in transition but they still had Bruschi, Seymour and Samuel had already become one of the better CBs in the league. Those guys are gone; look at their D. Not that it's putrid but certainly not comparable to those of the Super Bowl years.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1289543722' post='538050']But I just have trouble understanding people (not necessarily you) who praise and support our coaching staff and Ozzie Newsome (who is a great GM) but somehow blame the talent. Isn't that all tied together? Isn't Ozzie getting the talent or is he to blame? Shouldn't the coaching staff put the best team on the field?[/quote]



It's funny you mention that. The first time I posted this thread, I was pissed that Ozzie still hasn't found replacements for Ray and Ed, as well as neglected our DE position for years, and people don't want to hear that. Now people WANT to blame Oz.