Flacco Criticism Thread

[JaxFlaccoFan]

No question Ryan played a great game, but to say he is better than Flacco based on this one game is ridiculous. You can't make judgements like that based on one game or even one season for that matter. They have both demonstrated that they are excellent up-and-coming QBs. It is amazing how close their overall statistics are. I think it will take a few more years to answer the question as to who is better. Not sure it really matters anyway. They are both good and fans of both teams should be happy with each as their QB. Regarding this game, however, I'm really proud of the way Joe battled back. That says a lot about his determination and confidence. Ryan may have outplayed Joe in this game, but not as much as some of you want to make it out to be.

1. Flacco was under severe pressure most of the game while Ryan had all day to throw the ball to wide open receivers. I don't care if you're Manning, if you don't have time to throw the ball or are harassed all game, you are going to struggle somewhat. Conversely, any decent NFL QB will look good if he has all day to throw the ball to wide open receivers.

2. Flacco was playing on the road in a very noisy hostile dome environment, whereas Ryan had homefield advantage.

3. It was a short week for both QBs, but it's even worse on the away team because they essentially lose another day having to travel to the game.

4. The first half reminded me of the way the Bengals played the Ravens. Pressure Joe with your base defense, cover the outlet pass, and drop everyone back into coverage to cover only two receivers. Cam needs to make adjustments to attack this approach. When the other team has your two receivers covered along with the outlet pass, and Heap stays into block, where exactly is Flacco supposed to throw the ball. In fact, I think the bad interception Joe threw was out of frustration in trying to force a play similar to what he did against the Bengals. On the other hand, I saw quite a few plays where Ryan had three receiver sets plus the TE going out, so he basically had 4 receivers and all day to find at least one of them open. Not exactly fair to compare Ryan and Flacco under those conditions.

I am pretty certain if you put Joe in Ryan's shoes under the same circumstances, he would have excelled like Ryan did; however, I'm equally certain that if you put Ryan in Flacco's shoes under the same identical circumstances, he would have likely struggled a lot more.

[12th man]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1289563243' post='538271']
Ryan and Flacco played identical games. Near mirror images of each other.. Only difference was that Ryan had 50 attempts and didn't have Jonathan Babineaux or John Abraham on his back every snap.

Joe Flacco played a good game last night. Anyone denying that is only kidding themselves. We had far bigger problems than a couple of overthrows - namely, the offensive line and the return game.
[/quote]
Sorry but Flacco played HALF of a good game last night.
37 yards in first half isn't good. Offense or not Joe has a slow release, hold on to the ball way to long and slow reads, this is nothing new this is his issues that have been plague him for 3 years.
Second half was a lot better give him plenty of credit but he has to take responsibility for first half if you give him credit for second half.

[TSizzle00]

Yeah its all Flaccos fault. 14TDs and 2 interceptions since that horrible Bengals game. He helped the team get the lead with the game on the line. Had the defense held he would of been the hero and not Matt Ryan.

[SnOoPy]

Blame the 0-line and Defense.

[berad]

[quote name='12th man' timestamp='1289571553' post='538419']
Sorry but Flacco played HALF of a good game last night.
37 yards in first half isn't good. Offense or not Joe has a slow release, hold on to the ball way to long and slow reads, this is nothing new this is his issues that have been plague him for 3 years.
Second half was a lot better give him plenty of credit but he has to take responsibility for first half if you give him credit for second half.
[/quote]

The Ravens held the ball, if I'm not mistaken, for less than 9 minutes in the first half. Joe only had 8 attempts, a couple of which were throw-aways. The Ravens only had 3 drives, you can't get a quarterback in rhythm with that. Yes, Joe Flacco is a rhythm QB.

Overall, even including the first half, Joe played well. He had a good game. The INT was, really, the only bad throw he made. He had a few overthrows but those are understandable considering, on those plays, he was under heavy duress.

His performance looks even better when you consider they protection he received, or lack thereof. The OL was getting beaten all day, he rarely had a clean pocket but, when he did, he made plays. Even when the pocket broke down, Joe was still able to do things with both his arm and legs.

Again, he played a good game. I've even taken his lackluster first half into that.

[jimmypowder]

Flacco showed a lot of guts last night in what should have been a comeback win.

If our D had stopped the Falcons ,everyone would be praising Joe .It's just ridiculous.

He had a bad first half because our O - line could not block anyone .they improved in the second half
And lo and behold Joe throws 3 TD passes.

It's quite fair to say that Ryan had much much better protection the entire game then Joe.
Joe showed a lot of improvement this game in moving around in the pocket.

I wonder what Ryan would have done if the game was in Baltimore?Hopefully we will find out
In the next couple of years.

[FerrariFan87]

I blame the D, Cameron and the O-line. Like berad said, a QB can't get into rhythm with only 3 drives in a half. He played big-time football in the 2nd half and proved to me that he's on his way to being a great NFL QB.

[TSizzle00]

The problem I have witht he Ryan vs Flacco debate is that there shouldn't be one. People act like the Ravens passed over Ryan to get Flacco when that was not the case at all. Had Ryan fallen to the Ravens they would have drafted him for sure. Does that mean Ryan is head and shoulders better than Flacco? No.

[PuRock]

I don't know how you can criticize Joe in this game.

First quarter his O-Line wasn't giving him any time. 2nd quarter he didn't even touch the ball. Then in the 2nd half he scores 3 TDs including 1 on the road with a minute left. He had the INT against the cover 2 (something that obviously has to be worked on). But he played a solid game.

If you stop comparing the two, you'll feel much better about Flacco.

[12th man]

There is no way you can say Joe had a good game, First half was terrible yes he didn't get much time but who's fault is that??Joe didn't make anything happen with the time he had he had 3 drive to make something happen and he choked plan and simple. Everyone wants to blame D for not holding it in the last 50 seconds well what about the first 30 minutes O and Joe could play pee wee. It is what it is Joe is a slow starter, hold on to ball to long, can't make reads fast enough, that's not the D fault. Joe will improve over the years but last night he was a rookie is first half and it showed. If you look back at the game link you will see how many people were calling joe out it's not just me. i think it was a team failure but Joe was steering the ship.

[PuRock]

[quote name='12th man' timestamp='1289572947' post='538467']
There is no way you can say Joe had a good game, First half was terrible yes he didn't get much time but who's fault is that??Joe didn't make anything happen with the time he had he had 3 drive to make something happen and he choked plan and simple. Everyone wants to blame D for not holding it in the last 50 seconds well what about the first 30 minutes O and Joe could play pee wee. It is what it is Joe is a slow starter, hold on to ball to long, can't make reads fast enough that's bot the D fault. Joe will improve over the years but last night he was a rookie is first half and it showed. If you look back at the game link you will see how many people were calling joe out it's not just me. [b]i think it was a team failure but Joe was steering the ship.[/b]
[/quote]

Really? Because I remember a quarter where Joe didn't even touch the ball. Can't even try standing on the sideline. Then when the heat is on, who was making plays. Joe was hitting the open guys.

Flacco did the exact same thing he did in Pittsburgh. He scored with a minute left on the road. We wanted to praise the guy as coming into his own. He did the same thing yesterday, but we lost. Why the change in attitude?

[Ravens Lover]

stop hating on Flacco not even Manning could have done anything with that little protection

[rlh445]

My only wish is for the offense as a whole to have started earlier. Like, two quarters earlier. Joe threw a bad pick, and what are ya gonna do? I knew he was due for one, as did others. Let's give the Falcons defensive line credit, they made it real hard for us to do anything for awhile..by the time we made adjustments it was a little too late.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1289573107' post='538474']
Really? Because I remember a quarter where Joe didn't even touch the ball. Can't even try standing on the sideline. Then when the heat is on, who was making plays. Joe was hitting the open guys.

Flacco did the exact same thing he did in Pittsburgh. He scored with a minute left on the road. We wanted to praise the guy as coming into his own. He did the same thing yesterday, but we lost. Why the change in attitude?
[/quote]

I totally agree. Most of the time in the first half, when we had the ball we wre trying to run it. We only really started trying to pass the ball in the middle of the third quarter when we needed two scores to be in the game.

[berad]

[quote name='12th man' timestamp='1289572947' post='538467']
There is no way you can say Joe had a good game, First half was terrible yes he didn't get much time but who's fault is that??Joe didn't make anything happen with the time he had he had 3 drive to make something happen and he choked plan and simple. Everyone wants to blame D for not holding it in the last 50 seconds well what about the first 30 minutes O and Joe could play pee wee. It is what it is Joe is a slow starter, hold on to ball to long, can't make reads fast enough that's bot the D fault. Joe will improve over the years but last night he was a rookie is first half and it showed. If you look back at the game link you will see how many people were calling joe out it's not just me. i think it was a team failure but Joe was steering the ship.
[/quote]

The first half wasn't "terrible", I don't know where you're getting that from. Joe did about as well as anyone could expect with non-existence protection. He was 5 for 8 in the first half, again, with a couple of throw-aways.

It wasn't "terrible", it just wasn't productive. I'm not mad about it because the Ravens held the ball for less than 9 minutes and, in those 9 minutes, the OL was half-asleep. The Falcons had twice as many drives as the Ravens but blame that on Lardarius Webb "Tiki Barbering" the football - not Joe Flacco running for his life and, still, making good decisions.

The Webb fumble is seemingly forgotten by everyone but, make no mistake, it was as much of a turning point in the game as any. Joe Flacco, yes, played a [i]good game[/i] and did more than enough to help us win that game; really, he was our only offense.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289573267' post='538480']
My only wish is for the offense as a whole to have started earlier. Like, two quarters earlier. Joe threw a bad pick, and what are ya gonna do? I knew he was due for one, as did others. Let's give the Falcons defensive line credit, they made it real hard for us to do anything for awhile..by the time we made adjustments it was a little too late.
[/quote]

I will say it again. In the first half, we were trying to run the ball, Joe was asked not to lose the game and the offense struggled. At the end of the game, he was given the green light to throw (like Ryan was the entire game), and he threw two touchdown passes.

[JoeCool#5]

Matt Ryan is no Joe Flacco. Matt Ryan has a better OL and was playing against an inferior 2ndary. Seemed like he had all day in the pocket compared to the jail breaks Flacco was facing for the 1st 3 Quarters.

Matt Ryan threw short passes all night which torch out 2ndary. Ryan wasnt asked to throw deep. he overthrew Roddy for a sure TD but he couldnt get the ball to him prior to halftime. Ryan dumped off passes to his playmakers and they made plays. The 1st TD was embrassing. The first half was forgetful at best. The offense line wet the bed. Some could say the offense wasnt afforded the oppurtunity to answer for the early score. Instead Webb muffs the punt and the defense continued to allow another 10+ play drive to finish the half. Flacco gets to take a knee into half.

By late 3rd Quarter, the OL finally figured out its blocking assignments and Cam took off the Kitten gloves. Everyone knew the only way we could get back in the game was to pass. Considering the Falcons D knew the Ravens had to go to the Air to get make a comeback. Joe made several laser pin point passes and scramble with his feet to keep the chains moving.

The difference in this game was Matt had an OL for 4 Quarters. Joe had an OL for 1 1/2 quarters and still almost beat the Falcons. Joe played lights out when the game was on the line. If the Defense makes a stand in the last minute we are talking about how great Flacco is in the clutch.

[PuRock]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1289573443' post='538485']

The Webb fumble is seemingly forgotten by everyone but, make no mistake, it was as much of a turning point in the game as any. Joe Flacco, yes, played a [i]good game[/i] and did more than enough to help us win that game; really, he was our only offense.
[/quote]

Yep that was probably one of the most costly plays of the game. It only resulted in 3 points, but it kept our defense on the field and didn't even give us a chance to score again in the 1st half.

[12th man]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1289573107' post='538474']
Really? Because I remember a quarter where Joe didn't even touch the ball. Can't even try standing on the sideline. Then when the heat is on, who was making plays. Joe was hitting the open guys.

Flacco did the exact same thing he did in Pittsburgh. He scored with a minute left on the road. We wanted to praise the guy as coming into his own. He did the same thing yesterday, but we lost. Why the change in attitude?
[/quote]
Not sure what you mean as to change in attitude??
I really do think it was a team loss, coaches, players both sides of ball and Joe but i was just voicing my opinion but tired of everyone passing on Joe , Joe had a bad first half, 3 tries and we couldn't get any points all these new weapons and it's 2009 all over again.Tired of giving him a pass if he messed up ok but don't say he had a great fist half.

[PuRock]

[quote name='12th man' timestamp='1289573737' post='538495']
Not sure what you mean as to change in attitude??
I really do think it was a team loss, coaches, players both sides of ball and Joe but i was just voicing my opinion but tired of everyone passing on Joe , Joe had a bad first half, 3 tries and we couldn't get any points all these new weapons and it's 2009 all over again.Tired of giving him a pass if he messed up ok but don't say he had a great fist half.
[/quote]

Didn't mean the change in attitude in you personally. Just in general. Flacco pulled off the same feat in Pittsburgh and we all praised him to no end. If the defense held their end of the bargain, it would've been the same deal. But they didn't and here we are criticizing Flacco.

[berad]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1289573723' post='538494']
Yep that was probably one of the most costly plays of the game. It only resulted in 3 points, but it kept our defense on the field and didn't even give us a chance to score again in the 1st half.
[/quote]

Yep. On the sidelines, you could see the disappointment in the players faces. That's expected, sure, but it's demoralizing for the defense. I'm glad the held them to only 3 and my fingernails were salvaged, at least for a little.

[RedFire]

[quote name='TSizzle00' timestamp='1289563293' post='538273']
Way to throw in the towel, at least Flacco helped the team take the lead at the end.
[/quote]

Yup! And people act like flacco holds the ball like big Ben and leads the league in taking sacks. Sometimes u have to hold on to let big plays develop....we saw big Ben win a superbowl in that manor. How many superbowls has peyton manning won with a quick release?...his only superbowl win was inspite of his mistakes.

[JoeCool#5]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1289573723' post='538494']
Yep that was probably one of the most costly plays of the game. It only resulted in 3 points, but it kept our defense on the field and didn't even give us a chance to score again in the 1st half.
[/quote]
Yeah the Falcons had the ball for the last 8 minutes of the 1st half couresty of the Webb muff.

[SnOoPy]

oh yeah Blame Special Team too!

[JaxFlaccoFan]

[quote name='12th man' timestamp='1289573737' post='538495']
Not sure what you mean as to change in attitude??
I really do think it was a team loss, coaches, players both sides of ball and Joe but i was just voicing my opinion but tired of everyone passing on Joe , Joe had a bad first half, 3 tries and we couldn't get any points all these new weapons and it's 2009 all over again.Tired of giving him a pass if he messed up ok but don't say he had a great fist half.
[/quote]

"tired of everyone passing on Joe", are you serious? The guy gets slammed by people every week regardless of how he plays and regardless of the fact that since the 2nd week, he was the top rated QB. The guy only had 8 pass attempts the whole first half, while Ryan had 28 pass attempts. I don't think you can blame Joe for that. The fact is that he had very few opportunities in the first half to make a play. Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same game as some of you.

[rlh445]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1289574038' post='538508']
Yep. On the sidelines, you could see the disappointment in the players faces. That's expected, sure, but it's demoralizing for the defense. I'm glad the held them to only 3 and my fingernails were salvaged, at least for a little.
[/quote]

Glad YOUR fingernails were spared, !

[Jamal]

Flacco was great when it mattered. Too bad he can't play defense.

[CorvusCorax]

If it wasn't for Joe, this game wouldn't be even close.

[TSizzle00]

I wonder what the game would have looked like if we had Kyle Boller at QB....

[NgataHavinIt]

I heard an interesting stat this morning on Serius NFL Radio...not sure if it's been posted since I haven't read the whole thread.

When the Ravens are down 9+ points, Flacco's passer rating is [u]135[/u]! So that brings me to ask two questions:

1. Why does it take us being down for Joe to focus, find that "fire," and step up his game? He thinks quicker, makes decisions, gets the ball out on time, etc much better in those situations. That's great on one hand, because it shows that he's the guy you want in there when the chips are down. On the other hand, why does it take him that long to get going?

2. Is it Joe, or is it that the offensive line tightens up and blocks well for him when things get tough? If so, it brings about the same question. Why do they wait until it's do or die to start blocking with some sense of urgency?

If this team played with the same fire that they do in the fourth quarter throughout a whole game, we could definitely be a force to be reckoned with. I'd love to hear what you guys think about this...