Cody Moved Ahead Of Mckinney

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1289327546' post='533067']
we've needed to address DE for years, and keep neglecting it. When we brought in Pryce, our DE sucked (anthony weaver anyone?), but Pryce was supposed to buy us a year or two to draft and develop a guy.
For the last three years I've been waiting to do exactly that. We spent the 2007 draft revamping our offensive line instead (which I agree with and thought we did a great job of), but as an after thought we pick up Barnes, who most of us knew would never be a starter, especially not here.
2008 we played that draft to perfection, I loved every single pick we made, even Gooden (man, I really thought Gooden was a steal in the third..whoops) but we could have still went after a guy via FA.
2009, again...no love for DE. Unless you want to count Kruger, who played both OLB and DE in Utah. I dont count Kruger however, because he is a natural LB. He will have a better career playing LB. We just pulled a Madden with him (you gamers know what I'm talking about...what happens when you move a LB to DE?).
We passed on Peppers. Understandable, since he commands a ransom, not a salary, but he is one of thosee guys who can actually play up to that kind of contract. Him and Ngata together would have put a hurting on the league. Now we have Redding instead. [b]But okay, maybe 2010 draft we'll finally address DE?
Not.

Not that it matters, but I am going to raise some ****** hell if we dont handle our business in this draft regarding DE. I mean I'm going TO on the forums lol (minus the suicide attempt). Yall going to start calling me Crynismo.
Ya hear that internet threat Oz? Do ya ? Huh?
I will become a message board cancer if I dont get my way!!!![/b]
[/quote]

Don't worry man, the team is definitely going to address the interior d-line next year unless they feel Jones can develop into a starter. Regardless, DE, specifically the 3-4 DE class is relatively deep and I don't the Ravens not drafting one.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1289326009' post='533050']<br />Are you sure about all that man? Not that Redding has been lights out but save for the strip-sack that was waved off against Pittsbugh, I haven't noticed Kruger stand out at all.<br />[/quote]

he hasn't stood out yet, and when we finally gave him a chance to, he got hurt again.
Me and berad were going back and forth about whether Kruger should be a 3 down player at the beginning of the year, but I will admit that when he got hurt again, I lost a lot of faith in his ability to be reliable (meaning stay healthy, every week).

I've been very vocal in my opinions of Kruger since day one, borderline homerish (we all have our pet players who we just want to suceed even more than others on the team, ya know..), but even I didn't expect much from Kruger the last three games. Its to be expected when you're coming off an injury and you rarely get playing time to get in a groove.

But take it to the bank. Give Kruger a couple games as a starter (by starter, I mean the only time he comes off the field is to rest), and one of two things is guaranteed to happen:

1. He gets hurt.
2. He puts Redding in the unemployment line in a couple months.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1289325419' post='533044']
truth, and that isn't saying much either.
I dont understand why Redding has been given so much playing time since his arrival when he has proven himself to be a average player throughout his career. And I never understood the man love for him on these boards either. At least now people are starting to see what an utterly mediocre player Redding is.
Kruger looks to be 100%. There is NOTHING that Redding can do that Kruger can't do significantly better. Kruger is the only DL other than Ngata we have that is a legit 3 down player. He needs to be starting, not be used as a situational player.
[/quote]
ehhhh I dont know about that right now. Kruger gets too high for my liking alot of times much like Cody. I also dont trust Kruger holding his ground in rush D, he gets knocked back at times in the pass rush because of his pad level and how he stands up.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1289328276' post='533082']
he hasn't stood out yet, and when we finally gave him a chance to, he got hurt again.
Me and berad were going back and forth about whether Kruger should be a 3 down player at the beginning of the year, but I will admit that when he got hurt again, I lost a lot of faith in his ability to be reliable (meaning stay healthy, every week).

I've been very vocal in my opinions of Kruger since day one, borderline homerish (we all have our pet players who we just want to suceed even more than others on the team, ya know..), but even I didn't expect much from Kruger the last three games. Its to be expected when you're coming off an injury and you rarely get playing time to get in a groove.

But take it to the bank. Give Kruger a couple games as a starter (by starter, I mean the only time he comes off the field is to rest), and one of two things is guaranteed to happen:

1. He gets hurt.
2. He puts Redding in the unemployment line in a couple months.
[/quote]

I'm not sure about the second scenario happening but regardless, Kruger, along with Cody and everyone else along the d-line has to improve.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289328780' post='533097']<br />ehhhh I dont know about that right now.  Kruger gets too high for my liking alot of times much like Cody.  I also dont trust Kruger holding his ground in rush D, he gets knocked back at times in the pass rush because of his pad level and how he stands up.<br />[/quote]

I really dont like the move to DE, never liked the idea. His run support was just fine at OLB, but now moving to DE he's learning a whole new position, and as you pointed out, it shows in stopping the run when he's on the line.
Only way to fix his technique is to coach him and put him on the field, it is a correctable issue, unlike Redding's issue (which is he simply isnt very good).
What I meant was...he may not be an assett in stopping the run yet, but he wont be any worse than Redding until he gets his technique down, but offers so much more in other areas.
Kruger is a monster in coverage and a good pass rusher...how creative could we get with the playcalling when we have a DE who can not just rush the qb, but drop back too? And he has a knack for forcing turnovers.
Redding can do none of that, all the while killing us in run defense...really want Kruger to start, especially since I really dont see anything even remotely resembling a better alternative,,,,,,,,

[berad]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1289328276' post='533082']
he hasn't stood out yet, and when we finally gave him a chance to, he got hurt again.
[b]Me and berad were going back and forth about whether Kruger should be a 3 down player at the beginning of the year,[/b] but I will admit that when he got hurt again, I lost a lot of faith in his ability to be reliable (meaning stay healthy, every week).

I've been very vocal in my opinions of Kruger since day one, borderline homerish (we all have our pet players who we just want to suceed even more than others on the team, ya know..), but even I didn't expect much from Kruger the last three games. Its to be expected when you're coming off an injury and you rarely get playing time to get in a groove.

But take it to the bank. Give Kruger a couple games as a starter (by starter, I mean the only time he comes off the field is to rest), and one of two things is guaranteed to happen:

1. He gets hurt.
2. He puts Redding in the unemployment line in a couple months.
[/quote]

Yes we did. I still stand by the fact that he is only a situational rusher and reserve player at this point. He'll get better, I don't doubt it, but he's not there in his second year. Nothing against Paul, or his future, he's not a finished product yet.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

I hearby Proclaim the 3-Short Package to be Called the Wall of Woe and the Wall of Woe will be backed up by the Baiting Crab Net of Plenty , these two I now Proclaim as a Defense a Force in this nfl.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='TheRavenouseD2008' timestamp='1289334923' post='533219']
I hearby Proclaim the 3-Short Package to be Called the Wall of Woe and the Wall of Woe will be backed up by the Baiting Crab Net of Plenty , these two I now Proclaim as a Defense a Force in this nfl.
[/quote]

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1289329441' post='533113']
,

I really dont like the move to DE, never liked the idea. His run support was just fine at OLB, but now moving to DE he's learning a whole new position, and as you pointed out, it shows in stopping the run when he's on the line.
Only way to fix his technique is to coach him and put him on the field, it is a correctable issue, unlike Redding's issue (which is he simply isnt very good).
What I meant was...he may not be an assett in stopping the run yet, but he wont be any worse than Redding until he gets his technique down, but offers so much more in other areas.
Kruger is a monster in coverage and a good pass rusher...how creative could we get with the playcalling when we have a DE who can not just rush the qb, but drop back too? And he has a knack for forcing turnovers.
Redding can do none of that, all the while killing us in run defense...really want Kruger to start, especially since I really dont see anything even remotely resembling a better alternative,,,,,,,,
[/quote]
See I was on the other side of that, I dont think he's close to being athletic enough to play OLB, and he doesnt have the hand use or the pass rush moves that Vrabel had. Hes a bullrusher, thats his best move and he doesnt particularly have a good burst off the snap. DE is the spot he should be playing IMO. He just needs to get acclimated to it.

[XxSizzleXx]

Hmmm, I wonder how we would do if we threw a 4-3 out there. Have the big boys working the edges with Kruger and Johnson with Ngata and Gregg in the middle while substituting in people for Gregg. Then you have Suggs as the rush, Lewis doing his thing in the middle and possibly McClain playing the weak side.

I'd like to see that in running situations to see how the defense does. It's worth a shot.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' timestamp='1289349797' post='533381']
Hmmm, I wonder how we would do if we threw a 4-3 out there. Have the big boys working the edges with Kruger and Johnson with Ngata and Gregg in the middle while substituting in people for Gregg. Then you have Suggs as the rush, Lewis doing his thing in the middle and possibly McClain playing the weak side.

I'd like to see that in running situations to see how the defense does. It's worth a shot.
[/quote]
I think it would do the Ravens well to play Ellerbe a ton of snaps. He attacks the LOS far better than McClain does, and he doesnt ever get run over. He may get blocked but he usually blows up the original play to where it was supposed to go and that limits the gain. Much like Bart used to do.

[purple.n.black]

Maybe this is just what we needed

[Kwothdaraven]

I would like to see more 4-3 with suggs blitzing from the LB position. Ngata and cody as our interior linemen

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289369830' post='533614']
I think it would do the Ravens well to play Ellerbe a ton of snaps. He attacks the LOS far better than McClain does, and he doesnt ever get run over. He may get blocked but he usually blows up the original play to where it was supposed to go and that limits the gain. Much like Bart used to do.
[/quote]

We all know how Harbs is with the players and when he puts them in the dog house, it takes them way too long to get out. What is happening this year is the same thing as last with Barnes. Just let the kid play.

[Jamal]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' timestamp='1289372653' post='533628']
We all know how Harbs is with the players and when he puts them in the dog house, it takes them way too long to get out. What is happening this year is the same thing as last with Barnes. Just let the kid play.
[/quote]
Ellerbee chose a terrible time to enter the doghouse. This is his last year under contract, and if we aren't playing him, I don't see why we re-sign him. Which I would think is a mistake. I think he has the most upside out of the 3 ILB's on the team.

[organizedchaos007]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289283372' post='532758']
Im actually in the middle of watching the film right now, and Redding on that first drive was just wow. To those who say Mattison doesnt make adjustments, we actually flipped Redding and Ngata on the line to stop them from running between the G and T right at Redding. Redding gets just ruthlessly mauled on the TD run by Brown. Gregg actually does a really good job this first drive at the point of contact, halting the Cs momentum on multiple occasions. Cody gets knocked back on the 3rd and 1 run for 1 yard but again hes lined up at DE and I cant understand that for the life of me and its happened ALOT on the film I've watched with Cody. I really dont know why Mattison doesnt put him at NT and move Gregg outside.
[/quote]

i agree with you TOTALLY, ive studied the Miami game 3 time, and focused on offensive and defensive line. Cody for the most part, something is wrong with his technique, hes getting pushed off the ball often and not anchoring very well like he did in the preseason. Redding has been up and down, and chester at guard isnt all that bad. there are a few plays here and there from what ive watched that hes been beat or looks alittle confused.

[organizedchaos007]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1289400524' post='533715']
Ellerbee chose a terrible time to enter the doghouse. This is his last year under contract, and if we aren't playing him, I don't see why we re-sign him. Which I would think is a mistake. I think he has the most upside out of the 3 ILB's on the team.
[/quote]

Me too, i think he has alot of upside, and seems to make big plys and be around the ball. But since that preseason game, where he taunted someone as he returned that INT, right before the endzone, hes been in Harbaughs dog house.

[Jamal]

[quote name='organizedchaos007' timestamp='1289401153' post='533724']
i agree with you TOTALLY, ive studied the Miami game 3 time, and focused on offensive and defensive line. Cody for the most part, something is wrong with his technique, hes getting pushed off the ball often and not anchoring very well like he did in the preseason. Redding has been up and down, and chester at guard isnt all that bad. there are a few plays here and there from what ive watched that hes been beat or looks alittle confused.
[/quote]
Well, I think Cody is strictly a NT. He wont do much damage at the DE spot. I'd like to see him line up in the middle more often than he is.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289369830' post='533614']
I think it would do the Ravens well to play Ellerbe a ton of snaps. He attacks the LOS far better than McClain does, and he doesnt ever get run over. He may get blocked but he usually blows up the original play to where it was supposed to go and that limits the gain. Much like Bart used to do.
[/quote]

YEP! I haven't been impressed with Jameel at all. Shoot, I wouldnt even mind if JJ played the inside. I think that would do wonders.

[rlh445]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' timestamp='1289372653' post='533628']
We all know how Harbs is with the players and when he puts them in the dog house, it takes them way too long to get out. What is happening this year is the same thing as last with Barnes. Just let the kid play.
[/quote]

Nothing personal, straight edge Sizzle, but this 'dog house' thing is something totally created by the Ravens fanbase. Harbs doesn't have a 'dog house'. If guys are playing well, they get on the field. If they're not playing as well as another guy, they're out and that guy is in. There is no better example than the recent one with Fabs and Josh Wilson. Fabs isn't in the 'dog house' for royally messing up in the Bills game and having a lapse in the Dolphins game..he's just being sat for a player I think the majority of the board agrees is playing better at this time in Josh. I've never subscribed to the 'dog house' theory because Harbs is too smart a coach and we're a team who is too intent on winning to lessen our chances by throwing some guy in a proverbial 'dog house'.

[organizedchaos007]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1289401458' post='533728']
Well, I think Cody is strictly a NT. He wont do much damage at the DE spot. I'd like to see him line up in the middle more often than he is.
[/quote]

I agree with you, right next to ngata

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289336213' post='533248']
See I was on the other side of that, I dont think he's close to being athletic enough to play OLB, and he doesnt have the hand use or the pass rush moves that Vrabel had. Hes a bullrusher, thats his best move and he doesnt particularly have a good burst off the snap. DE is the spot he should be playing IMO. He just needs to get acclimated to it.
[/quote]

I agree, I think his ideal position is LDE in a 4-3, he lacks the athleticism and burst to dominate at OLB and lacks the strength and leverage to be a 3 down lineman in a 3-4. He's also too big for his frame which could be contributing to his injuries.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1289408057' post='533789']
I agree, I think his ideal position is LDE in a 4-3, he lacks the athleticism and burst to dominate at OLB and lacks the strength and leverage to be a 3 down lineman in a 3-4. He's also too big for his frame which could be contributing to his injuries.
[/quote]
Nothing against the kid, but it truly was a questionable pick in the 2nd round.

[berad]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1289417463' post='533882']
Nothing against the kid, but it truly was a questionable pick in the 2nd round.
[/quote]

I thought he had a low-second round grade at the time, which is when we got him. Looking back of course, an offensive/defensive lineman or cornerback would have been better but hindsight is always 20/20. Kruger is still a young player and has a ton of opportunities to show his worth in this league. There are some names picked after him that I would have liked to have on this team, though..

[color="#800080"][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NFL_Draft"]2009 Draft[/url][/color]

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1289401952' post='533732']
Nothing personal, straight edge Sizzle, but this 'dog house' thing is something totally created by the Ravens fanbase. Harbs doesn't have a 'dog house'. If guys are playing well, they get on the field. If they're not playing as well as another guy, they're out and that guy is in. There is no better example than the recent one with Fabs and Josh Wilson. Fabs isn't in the 'dog house' for royally messing up in the Bills game and having a lapse in the Dolphins game..he's just being sat for a player I think the majority of the board agrees is playing better at this time in Josh. I've never subscribed to the 'dog house' theory because Harbs is too smart a coach and we're a team who is too intent on winning to lessen our chances by throwing some guy in a proverbial 'dog house'.
[/quote]

I disagree, every coach has a dog house. Why such low playing time for Barnes last year when he was doing very exceptional in pass rush situations. You wouldn't call Ellerbe's play in the pre-season good? He has made a case for playing time so why not give it to him, like BLT said he does hit the gaps a lot harder and plugs things up in the run like Bart used to do. Ellerbe has done more than McClain, so why isn't he playing?

[flynismo]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1289418183' post='533899']<br />I thought he had a low-second round grade at the time, which is when we got him. Looking back of course, an offensive/defensive lineman or cornerback would have been better but hindsight is always 20/20. Kruger is still a young player and has a ton of opportunities to show his worth in this league. There are some names picked after him that I would have liked to have on this team, though..<br /><br /><font color="#800080"><a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NFL_Draft' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>2009 Draft</a></font><br />[/quote]

I was somewhat surprised that:

A -Sean Smith dropped to like 60something overall

and

B- we passed on him

[berad]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1289418805' post='533914']
I was somewhat surprised that:

A -Sean Smith dropped to like 60something overall

and

B- we passed on him
[/quote]

Yep. He was one of the ones I wouldn't mind having. A big, rangy, physical CB - sounds good to me.

[BloodRaven]

Sean Smith was a sexy pick but the guy has struggled and was relegated to the bench this season. The only decent players between Kruger and Webb were LT Sebastian Vollmer and DT Terrence Knighton, either we could have used this year (but were unlikely to have been picked had we missed out on Kruger)

[berad]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1289420376' post='533950']
Sean Smith was a sexy pick but the guy has struggled and was relegated to the bench this season. [b]The only decent players between Kruger and Webb were LT Sebastian Vollmer and DT Terrence Knighton, either we could have used this year (but were unlikely to have been picked had we missed out on Kruger)[/b]
[/quote]

Mike Wallace isn't half bad, either. But, again, hindsight is always 20/20.

[Jamal]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1289420671' post='533957']
Mike Wallace isn't half bad, either. But, again, hindsight is always 20/20.
[/quote]
Damn. That kills me every time I think about it.