All The Trash Talk About The Rookies Needs To Stop.

[grape drank]

A lot of threads are coming up about the Rookies not producing in their first year in the NFL. But did we really draft anyone to start right away? the only positions that we really needed someone to step in at was WR, CB and possibly safety at the time. Cody was brought in, but did any of you expect him to start over arguably the best defensive player in the NFL, Haloti Ngata. And sergio was brought in to provide a pass rush on "special pass rush situations" there wasn't any way he was going to start over Suggs or Jaret (despite Jaret's short comings this season, he is still better than what a lot of other teams have at OLB). We then signed two TE's in a row, but did you expect them to start over Heap? After that we took what we could get, I think we should have gotten perrish cox over pitta but hey, can't win 'em all. None of these players we're brought in to start, Ozzie was planning ahead for the eventual retirement of some of our key contributors, a luxury most teams don't have since their GM's don't think that far ahead. Take solace in the fact that, in 3 or 4 years when many of the long time faces of our organization/team are retired, there won't be an enormous drop off in the teams over-all level of play, as I've seen flashes of greatness from all the rookies mentioned with the exception of Sergio who i refuse to give up on.

The same argument was being made when we drafted Ray Rice in the 2nd round. Many people were saying "oh man we need a receiver so bad/corner back so bad that was dumb we already have McGahee" now we can not imagine the team without him.

In the upcoming draft, expect Ozzie to once again forego the popular route, and 4 years from that time we'll have 2 or 3 more pro bowlers on our roster.

[Ed_Reed20]

Had Cody been very impressive throughout the off-season and not got hurt, he would have taken Gregg's job.

I agree with your overarching point though.

[grape drank]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1288397631' post='523597']
Had Cody been very impressive throughout the off-season and not got hurt, he would have taken Gregg's job.

I agree with your overarching point though.
[/quote]
well we all agreed that we liked his talent as a large man, but thought he would benefit from losing some weight to see what other things he could do at a reduced size. He was 360 pounds, losing 20 pounds Isn't a whole lot when your that large, the extra quickness and athleticism will improve his game much more.

[theFRANCHISE]

Yeah, it's too early to pass judgment on these rookies when they're not even being asked to contribute more. They're simply not needed in an immediate capacity, nor should they be expected to contribute immediately, as the number of rookies that have an immediate impact each year is a small number in itself.

One year does not make a career.

[flynismo]

Who's talking trash about them? I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about them.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1288397631' post='523597']
[b]Had Cody been very impressive throughout the off-season [/b]and not got hurt, he would have taken Gregg's job.

I agree with your overarching point though.
[/quote]

He didn't have an offseason...

And I still don't know why Cody isn't playing that much. He was dominating in preseason against starters

[berad]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1288400587' post='523608']
He didn't have an offseason...

And I still don't know why Cody isn't playing that much. He was dominating in preseason against starters
[/quote]

He played in the OTAs and throughout a good portion of TC, right? Could be wrong.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1288400269' post='523607']
Who's talking trash about them? I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about them.
[/quote]
I've seen a decent amount of complaints online (not necessarily here) about how the rookies aren't doing much and how this was a horrible draft class that Ozzie put together.

Then again, it [i]is[/i] the Internet...

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1288400587' post='523608']
He didn't have an offseason...

And I still don't know why Cody isn't playing that much. He was dominating in preseason against starters
[/quote]

He had some dominant plays against the Panthers but I've noticed him on some snaps and like Harbaugh said, his pad level and block-shedding need work.

[mhead66]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1288400269' post='523607']
Who's talking trash about them? I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about them.
[/quote]
http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/27962-why-dont-they-ever-play-cheeseburger/

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1288401927' post='523624']
He had some dominant plays against the Panthers but I've noticed him on some snaps and like Harbaugh said, his pad level and block-shedding need work.
[/quote]
Thats the only thing with Cody, although I dont necessarily agree with the block shedding as its his job to stop the C/G's forward movement and free lanes up for Ray more than him making plays on his own. He just needs to knife through whoever is blocking him and push him or hold the LOS. But he does tend to stand tall on some plays that he should be staying low on.

[flynismo]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1288402254' post='523627']<br /><a href='http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/27962-why-dont-they-ever-play-cheeseburger/' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://boards.baltim...y-cheeseburger/</a><br />[/quote]


i didnt see any trash talking going on in there...

[flynismo]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1288401682' post='523620']<br />I've seen a decent amount of complaints online (not necessarily here) about how the rookies aren't doing much and how this was a horrible draft class that Ozzie put together.<br /><br />Then again, it <i>is</i> the Internet... <img src='http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />[/quote]

meh, whatever. I think we put together a pretty darn good draft if Kindle is able to recover. I think we could have done better, though.

Cody is taking me on a roller coaster ride...hated that pick, then warmed up to him after he flashed some potential in preseason, now after watching him play real live nfl games, I'm back to being underwhelmed by him. Never been a cody fan at all, but want to see him step up and be the guy we need him to be. Could happen, and as long as he's rolling with us I'll be pulling for him.

[yakraven]

LOL, I think someone miss read the story or at least the intent of the story.
Nobody has said that the Ravens rookie class isn't good or has failed to produce.
What the story headline said was "non of the rookies have managed to get a
starting spot yet".
The difference between our draft and many other teams', their drafts were for
immediate needs, ie Sam Bradford, Ndamakin Suh, CJ Spiller, etc.
Our draft was aimed at next year and the year after, w/ gradual "tuning" by
slow motion entry into games.
So far, we've done good w/ our plan and our players, whether they be so-called
"castoffs" or "unwanted" players.

Oh yeah, one other point - in that story it talked about Oher, Flacco and Ngata
starting their first rookie draft season. However, Oher started cause the other
guy retired; Flacco started because Boller got hurt and Smith got sick.

[grape drank]

[quote name='yakraven' timestamp='1288415070' post='523693']
LOL, I think someone miss read the story or at least the intent of the story.
Nobody has said that the Ravens rookie class isn't good or has failed to produce.
What the story headline said was "non of the rookies have managed to get a
starting spot yet".
The difference between our draft and many other teams', their drafts were for
immediate needs, ie Sam Bradford, Ndamakin Suh, CJ Spiller, etc.
Our draft was aimed at next year and the year after, w/ gradual "tuning" by
slow motion entry into games.
So far, we've done good w/ our plan and our players, whether they be so-called
"castoffs" or "unwanted" players.

Oh yeah, one other point - in that story it talked about Oher, Flacco and Ngata
starting their first rookie draft season. However, Oher started cause the other
guy retired; Flacco started because Boller got hurt and Smith got sick.
[/quote]

I wasn't refering to the article on the main page. I was refering to fans, saying that this years draft class hasn"t contributed anything thus far into the season. While being fairly true, they do bash the rookies, and say its their fault for not being incredible, I'm just saying that 2 of our rookies are backing up the best defensive player in the leauge, our other 2 picks are backing up a possible pro bowl TE (heap) and the others were just what was left.

[Jabara]

There has been some trash talking, or I guess you might want to say a negative response to the rookies and how those that feel that way are also criticizing the coaches for not playing them.
There has been a lot of posts about that, and a thread, from one of, if not the most negative person on this site.
Don't listen to that person.
True fans understand what is going on and how it works in the NFL and don't rely on instant gratification to make up their minds.
Everyone wants to go out and see the latest action movie for explosions and other psychological crazy things I won't get into and feel I have to censor myself.
But honestly, I feel this is a football issue best answered through understanding the human brain, and it's disorders.
Some adults are still crying for their mothers attention.
Just take that into consideration when people make such absurd statements whether it's football or not.
I totally agree with the OP, and would question most of the rookies in the NFL, that have started this season and what they have actually done.
Just because we don't start our rookies immediately doesn't mean they don't have talent, or that Ozzie made a bad move, it's because we have one of the best teams in the league, and are stacked at most positions.
It's hard for a rookie to get a job on this current Ravens lineup.
What's the big deal? Why is that a negative thing? It's a positive thing.
When it comes to things like that, it is as if we are dealing with mental make up, not football.
Let's cut the crap, and talk about football, not others mental problems, that is for another site.

[George70]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1288399152' post='523602']
Yeah, it's too early to pass judgment on these rookies when they're not even being asked to contribute more. They're simply not needed in an immediate capacity, nor should they be expected to contribute immediately, as the number of rookies that have an immediate impact each year is a small number in itself.

One year does not make a career.
[/quote]

How true, Franchise, the fact that we haven't seen that much of these rookies this season is just, for my money, proof positive that we are just planning for a few years from now, as it has been voiced at the start of this thread.

[Ravens549]

I actually think there is more complaints about our 'regular' players that are playing like rookies. lol

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='grape drank' timestamp='1288396960' post='523594']
A lot of threads are coming up about the Rookies not producing in their first year in the NFL. But did we really draft anyone to start right away? the only positions that we really needed someone to step in at was WR, CB and possibly safety at the time. Cody was brought in, but did any of you expect him to start over arguably the best defensive player in the NFL, Haloti Ngata. And sergio was brought in to provide a pass rush on "special pass rush situations" there wasn't any way he was going to start over Suggs or Jaret (despite Jaret's short comings this season, he is still better than what a lot of other teams have at OLB). We then signed two TE's in a row, but did you expect them to start over Heap? After that we took what we could get, I think we should have gotten perrish cox over pitta but hey, can't win 'em all. None of these players we're brought in to start, Ozzie was planning ahead for the eventual retirement of some of our key contributors, a luxury most teams don't have since their GM's don't think that far ahead. Take solace in the fact that, in 3 or 4 years when many of the long time faces of our organization/team are retired, there won't be an enormous drop off in the teams over-all level of play, as I've seen flashes of greatness from all the rookies mentioned with the exception of Sergio who i refuse to give up on.

The same argument was being made when we drafted Ray Rice in the 2nd round. Many people were saying "oh man we need a receiver so bad/corner back so bad that was dumb we already have McGahee" now we can not imagine the team without him.

In the upcoming draft, expect Ozzie to once again forego the popular route, and 4 years from that time we'll have 2 or 3 more pro bowlers on our roster.
[/quote]

I think you completely missed the point. We're not saying some these guys will NEVER turn out. The point is... the Ravens are built to make a run at the Super Bowl NOW.

Instead of trading down to get Sergio Kindle, who already had a history of pretty worrisome injuries... the Ravens could have traded up ONE spot, and gotten Dez Bryant. Not only would he contribute IMMEDIATELY as a receiver, but he would have been the answer to everyone's questions about who to return kicks each week.

Instead of drafting two tight ends, (neither of which look anywhere near big enough to block in the NFL) the Ravens could have added ANYTHING else.

We're not knocking the players, as much as we're knocking the decisions the organization made.

One thing is for sure, I definitely expected them to draft more linebackers than tight ends. That obviously didn't happen. I'm going to sit back and hopefully enjoy the rest of the season now that Ed Reed is back... but it will be very interesting to see what happens in the offseason leading up to the draft, and then... of course, the draft.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1288452243' post='523789']
I think you completely missed the point. We're not saying some these guys will NEVER turn out. The point is... the Ravens are built to make a run at the Super Bowl NOW.

Instead of trading down to get Sergio Kindle, who already had a history of pretty worrisome injuries... the Ravens could have traded up ONE spot, and gotten Dez Bryant. Not only would he contribute IMMEDIATELY as a receiver, but he would have been the answer to everyone's questions about who to return kicks each week.

Instead of drafting two tight ends, (neither of which look anywhere near big enough to block in the NFL) the Ravens could have added ANYTHING else.

We're not knocking the players, as much as we're knocking the decisions the organization made.

One thing is for sure, I definitely expected them to draft more linebackers than tight ends. That obviously didn't happen. I'm going to sit back and hopefully enjoy the rest of the season now that Ed Reed is back... but it will be very interesting to see what happens in the offseason leading up to the draft, and then... of course, the draft.
[/quote]
Dickson is 250 pounds the exact same weight that Heap is listed at and Pitta is 245 pounds, 5 less than Heap. This is the second time you've trusted your eyes to tell you how big Dickson and Pitta are and neither time you've bothered to actually check their specs. Both need to work on their technique thats all it is, much like Heap had to do out of Arizona State.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1288452243' post='523789']
I think you completely missed the point. We're not saying some these guys will NEVER turn out. The point is... the Ravens are built to make a run at the Super Bowl NOW.

Instead of trading down to get Sergio Kindle, who already had a history of pretty worrisome injuries... the Ravens could have traded up ONE spot, and gotten Dez Bryant. Not only would he contribute IMMEDIATELY as a receiver, but he would have been the answer to everyone's questions about who to return kicks each week.

Instead of drafting two tight ends, (neither of which look anywhere near big enough to block in the NFL) the Ravens could have added ANYTHING else.

We're not knocking the players, as much as we're knocking the decisions the organization made.

One thing is for sure, I definitely expected them to draft more linebackers than tight ends. That obviously didn't happen. I'm going to sit back and hopefully enjoy the rest of the season now that Ed Reed is back... but it will be very interesting to see what happens in the offseason leading up to the draft, and then... of course, the draft.
[/quote]

Wow...you just don't get it do you?

A team with [b]four picks[/b] doesn't trade up one spot in the first round to draft a WR. Especially when they had already traded for a really good one(Boldin) and re-signed a productive one(Mason).

Your point about the TEs not being able to develop into competent blockers isn't based in reality so I won't even address it.

You also expected a team with 9 LBs going into the draft to draft a few more? They drafted Kindle and we're seeing more and more why but who else should they have picked up?

It's one thing to criticize the FO based on legitimate reasons but to do it because they didn't carry out your dream scenario is senseless.

[grape drank]

[quote name='Ravens549' timestamp='1288443869' post='523770']
I actually think there is more complaints about our 'regular' players that are playing like rookies. lol
[/quote]


Haha I guess, but still, we have a lot more to be happy about than to be disappointed in.

[JO_75]

I agree with this OP. There have been times I have wanted to see our rookies in action but we have so much great depth that it is impossible for them to see action. Did people really think that JJ, Gregg and Heap were just going to say here's our # 1 spot on the depth chart? No.

Plus like the OP stated, Ozzie with this draft and probably the 2011 draft will be thinking long term wise. JJ's contract will be up soon, so getting Kindle was a long term solution. Gregg is old, and well we were going to need a NT anyhow so getting Cody was to not only help Cody learn the playbook this season but to let him heal up and be ready to contribute next year. Cody will be a monster in 2-3 years. Heap doesn't have much longer and by drafting 2 Tight Ends it gives us some depth past Heap. David Reed, seems like more of a special teams player, Art Jones is just depth on our d-line and it will be interesting to see if Harewood develops as our future RT.

Sounds like next year should be even more interesting, I mean I guess people will complain if we draft Michael Floyd/Julio Jones in the 1st and they aren't seeing much playing time on the field. I also guess people will complain if we draft Ras-I Dowling or some corner and will be saying how that was a wasted pick since they aren't contributing. This is why we should all be thankful for having Ozzie has a GM, he is thinking long term(Kindle, Cody, Dickson, Pitta) all a while thinking win now(Trading for Boldin, signing TJ)