Tsizzle, Me Thinks Not

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1287957512' post='519301']
If it was a 5th round pick it COULD be worth it Ozzie does a great job of finding good undrafted players.
I think Ozzie is overrated in other aspects though. He is still a great GM and gets us good players.[b] But in the first rounds he seems to have trouble finding people.[/b] Then in later rounds or in UFA we find people that work really hard and are pretty consistently good players.
[/quote]

That sentence alone should cost you your ability to post here for at least two weeks, or perhaps until you realize how wrong that sentence is.

[Alexir]

Don't get me wrong, I think Suggs is a great run stopper. But his argument was he is a pass rushing specialist and wants DE money. He wants to sit out of training camp to get a deal. Fine. But live up to the money man. Get a lil heated when you play like crap. You think Ray Lewis is saying "yeah we didn't play great but at least we aren't the losing team". Heck no, he is probably already breaking down film.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1287964369' post='519512']
Don't get me wrong, I think Suggs is a great run stopper. But his argument was he is a pass rushing specialist and wants DE money. He wants to sit out of training camp to get a deal. Fine. But live up to the money man. Get a lil heated when you play like crap. You think Ray Lewis is saying "yeah we didn't play great but at least we aren't the losing team". Heck no, he is probably already breaking down film.
[/quote]
That and Lewis' simply put the team on his back in OT and stripped the Bills of a win on the road against an AFC playoff team(lets hope). Lewis was so fed up with that game and the defenses effort, that he decided to actually do something about it when it mattered most.

[hammer]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1287953393' post='519104']
The entire D puts up a stinker and we want to single out the one guy who brought the closes thing to pressure the Ravens got on Fitzpatrick.

I love this fan-base...
[/quote]

Not to be a contrarian, but guys who get the BIG ($) bucks usually get greater scrutiny. It may not be fair, but it is the reality.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1287970184' post='519753']
Not to be a contrarian, but guys who get the BIG ($) bucks usually get greater scrutiny. It may not be fair, but it is the reality.
[/quote]

I think it's fair which is why the OP's remarks are even more baffling. Suggs got pressure today and made some very good plays against the run. No, he didn't collect a sack but I don't see why that means he's an average player.

[rlh445]

Suggs isn't *just* a pass rusher. I heard many of the same sentiments in the OPs post on talk radio last week, and just shook my head. I'm sorry he can't be a one dimensional 'backer but he has much more to do on the defense then just rush the passer every down. He's gotta hold down the side of his line, bring pressure, cover RBs, FBs, TEs, you name it he covers it. Plus, he's gotta stop the run. The guy just does it all. I'd HATE to see our defense without him at this point.

[Ravens549]

As much as it pains me...there are a lot of better players per position than Suggs. i.e. Harrison.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravens549' timestamp='1287972146' post='519876']
As much as it pains me...there are a lot of better players per position than Suggs. i.e. Harrison.
[/quote]

Harrison is a better pass rusher but he can't do all the things Suggs does. You say "a lot" of rush LBs are better than Suggs, name a few.

[wayne]

I appreciable how versatile Suggs is but the one thing we need the most from him is rushing the passer, obviously . Now, Suggs could have had like 4 sacks today if it weren't for the awful play by the secondary . Fitzpatrick was releasing the ball most the time between 2-3 mississippi , to fast for anyone rushing the QB. I think we should just cut back on Suggs responsibilities and let him just focus on rushing the QB and stopping the run, get back to his roots of his rookie days.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1287959065' post='519341']
Overrated? Please. The only GM whose drafted better than Ozzie since he became the GM is Polian in Indy.
[/quote]
I am not saying he is bad, or is not the best. Just that he is overrated.
Specifically has trouble on offensive players. You don't need a dictionary definition for "overrated" or the difference between overrated and good do you?

[rlh445]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1287981562' post='520109']
I appreciable how versatile Suggs is but the one thing we need the most from him is rushing the passer, obviously . Now, Suggs could have had like 4 sacks today if it weren't for the awful play by the secondary . Fitzpatrick was releasing the ball most the time between 2-3 mississippi , to fast for anyone rushing the QB. I think we should just cut back on Suggs responsibilities and let him just focus on rushing the QB and stopping the run, get back to his roots of his rookie days.
[/quote]

We don't need his pass rushing the most. We need that versatility you say you appreciate the most. Do you realize how many busted plays we would give up without Suggs there? Obviously you don't. If we just say, 'Suggs, don't worry about anything else, just rush the QB,' without any help from anyone else, we are going to be burned much, much worse then what you saw today with Buffalo. He's the only guy getting consistent pressure, *even when he's not actively rushing the QB*. He's just really being undersold in this thread.

[purple.n.black]

I love Ozzie as much as the next guy and am very grateful that we have him. I don't remember how all this started lol. Overall he is great, very strong possibility he is the best drafter. But what I meant is not in the first round, but as I said, the first rounds. Rounds 1-3. He has trouble specifically with offensive players. He is great in the late rounds, and finding UFA. So I would think he would consistently find far better talent earlier in the draft. And honestly I think he has the past few years, and I hope he can keep it going. But what I was talking about:
C Redman
D Cody
D Darling
Y Figurs
M Smith
A Terry
D Cody
T Taylor
K Boller
M Clayton(he did fine in STL, but what did he ever really do here. Not 1st round talent)
P Johnnson
All the good does somewhat negate all these bad picks. Especially when you have JO and Lewis who have combined for IDk 25 pro bowls maybe. But you cannot deny that he could not have found better talent in the early rounds than the players listed above.
Rounds 4+ I don't think anyone comes close to the great Ozzie's ability. Rounds 1-3, specifically offensive skill position players, not so much. All has seemed pretty good so far since Harbaugh era, Webb, Flacco, Oher, Rice. Who knows which list Kruger deserves to be on at this point, but I think the boy can still play and maybe start someday in the NFL.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1287982505' post='520121']
I am not saying he is bad, or is not the best. Just that he is overrated.
Specifically has trouble on offensive players. You don't need a dictionary definition for "overrated" or the difference between overrated and good do you?
[/quote]

I think you may need a dictionary.

Since Ozzie was officially named the GM in 2002, the team has drafted offensive contributers such as:

Musa Smith
Ovie Mughelli
Jason Brown
Chris Chester
Ben Grubbs
Marshal Yanda
Le'Ron McClain
Jared Gaither
Joe Flacco
Ray Rice
Michael Oher

[b]Compare that to the track record of other NFL GMs[/b] and I don't see how you can say he's overrated.

[jj2020]

[quote name='D_UP' timestamp='1287953195' post='519083']
Suggs is a average player, who makes has little or no impact on the game. This guy doesn't show up, made zero plays today. He will get a sack, but this season I can't recall it coming in key spots. Today was a prime example of him not doing anything, he's the rush linebacker but doesn't produce.
[/quote]

Ok here some football knowledge for ya. Suggs is a beast why you see him doing little is because he is almost always double teamed which is good because that frees up other guys. Also he is a hybrid either DE or LB we need these guys.
My Question is why ya hating? what is your point should we drop suggs trade him? for who? really? Today the entire D looked bad, I would say again as a unit we failed to stop the run not suggs did not stop the run it was a team eddort and our secondary feel apart. I like to think it was because Ed Reeds return not that he hurts us but he changes everything and our guys had less than a week to figure it out. Good thing we got a bye week time to gell. Do not worry be happy Joe and the offense pulled it off today which is something new for us I am thinking playoffs!!

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1288015558' post='520366']
I think you may need a dictionary.

Since Ozzie was officially named the GM in 2002, the team has drafted offensive contributers such as:

Musa Smith
Ovie Mughelli
Jason Brown
Chris Chester
Ben Grubbs
Marshal Yanda
Le'Ron McClain
Jared Gaither
Joe Flacco
Ray Rice
Michael Oher

[b]Compare that to the track record of other NFL GMs[/b] and I don't see how you can say he's overrated.
[/quote]
Well for one I said offensive skill position players. I did not mention that in the first part of the post. And I also said that he has done well with that recently. And you keep saying he's one of the best compare him to blah blah blah I told you I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter, and he no doubt is one of the best. I'll repeat that because you still seem to think I'm saying "he's overrated, so what I mean is there is no way he is not great or one of tthe best"
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
And how are you going to include guys like Mughelli and Smith. Smith may have been a good player (broke his leg right?) but he certainly did not show anything here. Definitely not the caliber of a guy to be part of a 2+headed running attack

[Bullrush]

[quote name='D_UP' timestamp='1287953195' post='519083']
Suggs is a average player, who makes has little or no impact on the game. This guy doesn't show up, made zero plays today. He will get a sack, but this season I can't recall it coming in key spots. Today was a prime example of him not doing anything, he's the rush linebacker but doesn't produce.
[/quote]
The problem is that you don't know much or anything about football. No offense.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1288022476' post='520477']
Well for one I said offensive skill position players. I did not mention that in the first part of the post. And I also said that he has done well with that recently. And you keep saying he's one of the best compare him to blah blah blah I told you I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter, and he no doubt is one of the best. I'll repeat that because you still seem to think I'm saying "he's overrated, so what I mean is there is no way he is not great or one of tthe best"
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
I think it's a strong possibility he is the best drafter
And how are you going to include guys like Mughelli and Smith. Smith may have been a good player (broke his leg right?) but he certainly did not show anything here. Definitely not the caliber of a guy to be part of a 2+headed running attack
[/quote]

Fair enough; I missed the offensive skill position part.

No, Smith was never a star here but he was a competent backup and contributed quite a lot on special teams.

Mughelli became one of the better fullbacks in the league here and has continued to show his stuff in Atlanta.

[D_UP]

[quote name='jj2020' timestamp='1288017472' post='520404']
Ok here some football knowledge for ya. Suggs is a beast why you see him doing little is because he is almost always double teamed which is good because that frees up other guys. Also he is a hybrid either DE or LB we need these guys.
My Question is why ya hating? what is your point should we drop suggs trade him? for who? really? Today the entire D looked bad, I would say again as a unit we failed to stop the run not suggs did not stop the run it was a team eddort and our secondary feel apart. I like to think it was because Ed Reeds return not that he hurts us but he changes everything and our guys had less than a week to figure it out. Good thing we got a bye week time to gell. Do not worry be happy Joe and the offense pulled it off today which is something new for us I am thinking playoffs!!
[/quote]


Why is it "hating" because i may have a opposing view than yours? I don't dislike suggs, matter fact i pull for suggs like i do each and every ravens player. I don't discount his talent nor did i mention trading him, I'm expressing my viewpoint.

[flynismo]

If we sent Suggs in on a rush 25 times a game like Ware and Harrison, he'd have similiar sack totals and people would be all over his nuts too. That seems to be the only thing people know or care about when it comes to linebackers. But we dont do that with him. Here's something I find amusing....when was the last time anyone ever uttered the words "I cant believe Suggs missed that tackle" or "I cant believe Suggs blew his assignment" or "Suggs got burnt in coverage". Those guys who make $ugg$ money dont do half of what he does on the field. Suggs is a beast, whether you know any better or not.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1287984061' post='520141']
I love Ozzie as much as the next guy and am very grateful that we have him. I don't remember how all this started lol. Overall he is great, very strong possibility he is the best drafter. But what I meant is not in the first round, but as I said, the first rounds. Rounds 1-3. He has trouble specifically with offensive players. He is great in the late rounds, and finding UFA. So I would think he would consistently find far better talent earlier in the draft. And honestly I think he has the past few years, and I hope he can keep it going. But what I was talking about:
C Redman
[b]D Cody[/b]
D Darling
Y Figurs
M Smith
A Terry
[b]D Cody[/b]
T Taylor
K Boller
M Clayton(he did fine in STL, but what did he ever really do here. Not 1st round talent)
P Johnnson
All the good does somewhat negate all these bad picks. Especially when you have JO and Lewis who have combined for IDk 25 pro bowls maybe. But you cannot deny that he could not have found better talent in the early rounds than the players listed above.
[/quote]

You know Ozzie sucks when he drafts the same guy twice.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1288030389' post='520581']<br />You know Ozzie sucks when he drafts the same guy twice.<br />[/quote]

Nice lol...or maybe he meant both Dan Codies (or would it be Codii?) since Kruger is starting to go down that path...

[H8R]

Hey, I know he didnt have the big pay day that Suggs had.... BUT JJ has been more of a disappointment!

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1287953360' post='519099']
Obviously you didnt actually watch the battle in the trenches this game, Suggs beat his blocker at almost a 60% rate this game, Fitzpatrick just had open receivers all game long. Suggs was half a second away from 4 sacks that I counted.
[/quote]

I don't get this logic. There are bench players in the NFL who produce more than suggs over the last several seasons. Even backups do what you describe, but what exactly sets them apart from the Wares, Dumervils, Harrisons etc of the NFL is that the elite players i mentioned actually land the sack. On top of actually making the plays, these players get the "almost sacks" you described just as much as suggs if not more. The fundamental problem with him is that he lacks the speed and the skill to get to the QB in time. QBs have consistantly and easily ran away from him and made plays. Suggs cannot make plays without Rex Ryan's scheme or elite playmakers around him to help him. This defense for the first time is much younger and lacks the all around playmakers at every position it once had, and Terrell Suggs being the average player that he is, can't do anything. On top of that he lacks any motivation whatsoever to even try to land average stats now that he has his money.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1288033604' post='520612']
Hey, I know he didnt have the big pay day that Suggs had.... BUT JJ has been more of a disappointment!
[/quote]

He has but remember he's banged up. The bum shoulder may be something he'll deal with all season but I'm hoping he can heal up somewhat over the bye.

It all goes back to Kindle's accident. We'll never know how the D would be performing with him but I highly doubt they'd be this poor getting heat on QBs.

I wonder if Arthur Jones could help.

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1288030033' post='520579']
If we sent Suggs in on a rush 25 times a game like Ware and Harrison, he'd have similiar sack totals and people would be all over his nuts too. That seems to be the only thing people know or care about when it comes to linebackers. But we dont do that with him. Here's something I find amusing....when was the last time anyone ever uttered the words "I cant believe Suggs missed that tackle" or "I cant believe Suggs blew his assignment" or "Suggs got burnt in coverage". Those guys who make $ugg$ money dont do half of what he does on the field. Suggs is a beast, whether you know any better or not.
[/quote]

It sure as hell doesn't happen often, but against the Jets when they pulled the fake FB hand off and tossed to LT to the left for about 20 Suggs had missed that tackle otherwise it would of been about a gain of yard, granted Suggs was the only one in the area who even recognized and reacted to the real play, everyone else was playing the FB.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1288033892' post='520617']
I don't get this logic. There are bench players in the NFL who produce more than suggs over the last several seasons. Even backups do what you describe, but what exactly sets them apart from the [b]Wares, Dumervils, Harrisons[/b] etc of the NFL is that the elite players i mentioned actually land the sack. On top of actually making the plays, these players get the "almost sacks" you described just as much as suggs if not more. The fundamental problem with him is that he lacks the speed and the skill to get to the QB in time. QBs have consistantly and easily ran away from him and made plays. [b]Suggs cannot make plays without Rex Ryan's scheme or elite playmakers around him to help him.[/b] This defense for the first time is much younger and lacks the all around playmakers at every position it once had, and Terrell Suggs being the average player that he is, can't do anything. On top of that he lacks any motivation whatsoever to even try to land average stats now that he has his money.
[/quote]

It's funny that you say Suggs needs elite players to make plays and two of the players you brought up have a number of really good to elite players around that make their job easier(especially when rushing the QB).

It's still amazing that fans continue to criticize him after yesterdays when although he didn't generate a sack, got pressure and made very good plays against the run. Late in the game, he got hurt, came back and I saw him battling when Mattison decided to rush only three.

[SnOoPy]

It's funny how when we don't have no pass rush we automatically blame it on Suggs. Suggs had a lot of pressure against the Bills.

[berad]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1288034191' post='520620']
He has but remember he's banged up. The bum shoulder may be something he'll deal with all season but I'm hoping he can heal up somewhat over the bye.

It all goes back to Kindle's accident. We'll never know how the D would be performing with him but I highly doubt they'd be this poor getting heat on QBs.

[b]I wonder if Arthur Jones could help.
[/b][/quote]

I was wondering the same thing but, to my knowledge, he has been inactive every game. I'm not sure he could hurt our pass rush, at this point. I'd like to see him play.

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='SnOoPy' timestamp='1288035520' post='520649']
[b]It's funny[/b] how when we don't have no pass rush we automatically blame it on Suggs. Suggs had a lot of pressure against the Bills.
[/quote]


It's actually getting QUITE annoying. I don't even bother with these threads really anymore.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1288036166' post='520658']
I was wondering the same thing but, to my knowledge, he has been inactive every game. I'm not sure he could hurt our pass rush, at this point. I'd like to see him play.
[/quote]

So would I. Raw as he is, Inexperienced he is, he's definitely more explosive than either Gregg or McKinney.