3-4 Defense

[omar586]

we need to play more 3-4 than 4-3, it seems that 4-3 d is slow and ineffective, but 3-4 is more confusing for opposing offense and effective for us, what u guys think

[BloodRaven]

Personally I think we should tackle the ball carrier after the snap.

[justifythegame]

not happening as long as mattison calls the plays. he is a 4-3 guy, he is only running this fake 34 we have just cuz thats how we are built, so be glad at least we have that. i take the biggest issue with mattison's retarded rotation system. how do u rotate out maybe the best player u have (ngata) on a regular basis for losers like mckinney? ngata's numbers have significantly dropped since mattison started play calling. i might even feel better if Cody was getting in the rotation at least, but he doesn't at all.

[Alexir]

How bout we get Suggs to play like the richest OLB in the league?......

[Bltravens]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1287633288' post='515409']
not happening as long as mattison calls the plays. he is a 4-3 guy, he is only running this fake 34 we have just cuz thats how we are built, so be glad at least we have that. i take the biggest issue with mattison's retarded rotation system. how do u rotate out maybe the best player u have (ngata) on a regular basis for losers like mckinney? ngata's numbers have significantly dropped since mattison started play calling. i might even feel better if Cody was getting in the rotation at least, but he doesn't at all.
[/quote]
Pretty sure Ngata has a career high in sacks already...through 5 weeks...and Suggs is on pace for his highest sack total since 2006...just saying. My only beef is if your going to play a 2 deep safety, mix in some press coverage with the corners, they have the help over the top, why not?

[Jabara]

It appears we've been dropping more linebackers into coverage recently, and more frequently.
It's been helping out the secondary.
We had a good amount of sacks against Brady, but it just takes one time where he is allowed to stand in the pocket for too long and he'll make a big play, or throw a TD.

When Reed is healthy, and ready to play a full game, that will greatly improve our pass rushers since that extra second or two the QB uses to see where Ed is and what he's up to, will give Ngata and Suggs more time to get to the QB.

[XxSizzleXx]

We haven't run the 4-3, we've ran the 3-4 and nickel/dime. No 4-3.

[ZIBBY28]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' timestamp='1287642553' post='515454']
We haven't run the 4-3, we've ran the 3-4 and nickel/dime. No 4-3.
[/quote]
winner winner... sick 'em Mod9 lol

[Radinho84]

i understand why we don´t play cody when the other team is passing on us on every play. but when we are completely run over by a team- why don´t we play him??

[Radinho84]

i know that he isn´t the answer and i don´t see big problems like many others here around(4-2 with big wins on the road) but those games are what we drafted him for i guess so when will he get his chance if not in those situations. don´t get me wrong. i don´t say we would have won with cody i just want to see him on the field!!!

[Jabara]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1287644434' post='515477']
i know that he isn´t the answer and i don´t see big problems like many others here around(4-2 with big wins on the road) but those games are what we drafted him for i guess so when will he get his chance if not in those situations. don´t get me wrong. i don´t say we would have won with cody i just want to see him on the field!!!
[/quote]
It's possible his injury is still nagging him.
It's possible they are trying to get him into better shape.
It's also possible that the players higher up on the depth chart are playing really well, actually, that's true.
I think we'll gradually see more and more of him.
Maybe more this game, if he is ready to play, because we are playing the Bills and it would be good to get him some time in right before the bye.
He might just need some more time to develop.
Don't get me wrong, I want to see him play just as much as you do.
I look for him on every down.

[Radinho84]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1287645116' post='515479']
It's possible his injury is still nagging him.
It's possible they are trying to get him into better shape.
It's also possible that the players higher up on the depth chart are playing really well, actually, that's true.
I think we'll gradually see more and more of him.
Maybe more this game, if he is ready to play, because we are playing the Bills and it would be good to get him some time in right before the bye.
He might just need some more time to develop.
Don't get me wrong, I want to see him play just as much as you do.
I look for him on every down.
[/quote]
well i think you are right and i had the same reasons for him not playing. BUT i think we could have used him against the pats and we didn´t. there is pretty sure a reason for it and the coaches should know what they are doing. so i keep searching for him before every snap :-)

[Jabara]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1287645972' post='515483']
well i think you are right and i had the same reasons for him not playing. BUT i think we could have used him against the pats and we didn´t. there is pretty sure a reason for it and the coaches should know what they are doing. so i keep searching for him before every snap :-)
[/quote]
Yeah, it's all speculation right now.
We do know that he had a knee injury, which is important to allow to heal, and takes bigger players longer to heal.
We do know that his conditioning has been an issue in his past so they may have him working out a lot.
We know that Harbs is big on teaching technique, so they may be forming him into more of a technical player as opposed to taking a gamble on his raw talent, not to mention that would help him as far as not being penalized as much, which is also a big part of the way Harbs does things.
That's all we really know, obviously the coaches know more.
Yeah, I want to see him play asap, but really to say we could have used him here or there, when we don't know why he is not getting much time, is like saying, we could have really used Kindle during this or that game.
Now the situations are a bit different, but we shouldn't worry about, [i]if only[/i] types of situations.
We'll see him out there, and I'm sure he'll do a great job in the future.

[Radinho84]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1287646864' post='515488']
Yeah, it's all speculation right now.
We do know that he had a knee injury, which is important to allow to heal, and takes bigger players longer to heal.
We do know that his conditioning has been an issue in his past so they may have him working out a lot.
We know that Harbs is big on teaching technique, so they may be forming him into more of a technical player as opposed to taking a gamble on his raw talent, not to mention that would help him as far as not being penalized as much, which is also a big part of the way Harbs does things.
That's all we really know, obviously the coaches know more.
Yeah, I want to see him play asap, but really to say we could have used him here or there, when we don't know why he is not getting much time, is like saying, we could have really used Kindle during this or that game.
Now the situations are a bit different, but we shouldn't worry about, [i]if only[/i] types of situations.
We'll see him out there, and I'm sure he'll do a great job in the future.
[/quote]
good points!!!

[wayne]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' timestamp='1287642553' post='515454']
We haven't run the 4-3, we've ran the 3-4 and nickel/dime. No 4-3.
[/quote]
The way Mattison runs it, might as well be a 4-3. Most times you see 4 guys rushing the passer anyway. When we show blitz then have people coming with people dropping back, thats our defense at its best, something positive always happen when we do that rather its a free man coming at the QB in a result of confusing the O-Line as well as forcing the QB to hold onto the ball for an extra second with a greater chance if getting the sec. When you just rush your front 4, pretty sure thats a sign of relief for any QB in the league . We need more confusion with the defense which we get to see glimpses of it every now and then.

[The Raven]

The defense looks like a 3-4 to me... Matty runs a conservative defense. He likes zone coverage, and 4 man rush. However, now that Reed is back, I'm pretty sure we're gonna see some more blitz. I think we were playing so much zone because Ed wasn't back there, but now that he is, we'll start seeing more man coverage and heavy blitzes.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1287632792' post='515405']
Personally I think we should tackle the ball carrier after the snap.
[/quote]
I second that. In that Pats game the Ravens were always in position to make a play but missed key tackles to allow YAC.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1287636327' post='515425']
It appears we've been dropping more linebackers into coverage recently, and more frequently.
It's been helping out the secondary.
We had a good amount of sacks against Brady, but it just takes one time where he is allowed to stand in the pocket for too long and he'll make a big play, or throw a TD.

When Reed is healthy, and ready to play a full game, that will greatly improve our pass rushers since that extra second or two the QB uses to see where Ed is and what he's up to, will give Ngata and Suggs more time to get to the QB.
[/quote]

I've noticed we've routinely been dropping 8 into coverage. Not really rushing or blitzing much this season. I agree that it could be due to Reed's absence. For the most part, it has been working to help out the secondary. I think once Reed is up to snuff Mattison might feel comfortable bringing more pressure and all out blitzes.

[AlaskanRavensFan]

Well, our pass defense is rated 3rd in the league, so I'm not complaining there. (remember that's without Reed and without Foxworth in a secondary that was supposed to be our weakest part of the team)

We are 15th in rushing defense (but to keep that in perspective, we are only giving up 15 yards more per game than the Jets who are ranked 4th) That will even out as the year goes on. Right now it's just high because of the Browns game.

It's not a sexy defense, but it is working. We have only had one team get 20 or more points against us and that was the pats, so I'll take that six weeks into the season.

We run both the 4-3 and the 3-4 and nickel and dime etc.. I'm not sure why people think just because a team's base defense is one or the other that they won't also run other defenses fronts.

Watching the 4th qtr of the pats game last night, we were rushing 4 for most of the drive they scored the touchdown on. There were some delayed blitzes and some plays where the ravens showed blitz and then dropped back. The key plays on that drive were the phantom pass interference on Webb, the woodhead run (Ellerbe over-pursued and got yelled at by Nakamura) and the touchdown play where webb got caught peeking in the backfield and lost track of Branch.

Now I know that we all like Webb and I was glad to see him out there, but we have to keep in mind that he still hasn't even played a full season at corner. He's going to make mistakes because he's still got a lot to learn.

Additionally our inside LB's other than Ray obviously are young and inexperienced as starters. Ellerbe, McClain and Gooden (when he's healthy) aren't exactly seasoned vets. They are still learning how to play at the NFL level and also how to play inside LB (Ellerbe and Gooden played the mike position in college which is the middle backer in a 4-3 and McClain played DE)

They will get it figured out as the season goes on, but our defense is not like years past where everyone starting had considerable experience.

[Vademor]

[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1287629891' post='515381']
we need to play more 3-4 than 4-3, it seems that 4-3 d is slow and ineffective, but 3-4 is more confusing for opposing offense and effective for us, what u guys think
[/quote]


You might be right on this because our roster would probably be more effective in a 3-4.

[Vademor]

[quote name='TSizzle00' timestamp='1287665450' post='515554']
I second that. In that Pats game the Ravens were always in position to make a play but missed key tackles to allow YAC.
[/quote]


I third it. That was a killer in the Pats game!

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1287633868' post='515413']
How bout we get Suggs to play like the richest OLB in the league?......
[/quote]
thats not happening. this guy pulled a shaun alexander on us. he was never one of the leaders of this defense, he was a product of the ravens defense. Peter Boulware, a guy who was pretty humble, and didn't dance around on the field was twice the player he is, yet he was never recognized even half as much as suggs was/is. Suggs is all about hype and talk. But he can't even produce as much as back up DEs and LBs on other teams. He needs a good defensive scheme, guys like boulware, AD, and even Trevor Pryce to get 13 sacks on the opposite end for him to be effective. He is not the overrated player people think he is that can make plays on his own.

[Alexir]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1287671163' post='515607']
thats not happening. this guy pulled a shaun alexander on us. he was never one of the leaders of this defense, he was a product of the ravens defense. Peter Boulware, a guy who was pretty humble, and didn't dance around on the field was twice the player he is, yet he was never recognized even half as much as suggs was/is. Suggs is all about hype and talk. But he can't even produce as much as back up DEs and LBs on other teams. He needs a good defensive scheme, guys like boulware, AD, and even Trevor Pryce to get 13 sacks on the opposite end for him to be effective. He is not the overrated player people think he is that can make plays on his own.
[/quote]

Totally agree. His name doesn't belong up there with Ware, Harrison and Peppers anymore. He just cant get it done.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1287671163' post='515607']
thats not happening. this guy pulled a shaun alexander on us. he was never one of the leaders of this defense, he was a product of the ravens defense. Peter Boulware, a guy who was pretty humble, and didn't dance around on the field was twice the player he is, yet he was never recognized even half as much as suggs was/is. Suggs is all about hype and talk. But he can't even produce as much as back up DEs and LBs on other teams. He needs a good defensive scheme, guys like boulware, AD, and even Trevor Pryce to get 13 sacks on the opposite end for him to be effective. He is not the overrated player people think he is that can make plays on his own.
[/quote]

Really? By "produce", do you mean generate sacks because there isn't a single player who ranks among the league leaders in sacks that doesn't have either an equally good pass rusher across from him or a capable one.

We've seen Suggs generate sacks on his own(he did last game) so let's not pretend like it doesn't happen. However, the lack of sacks in comparison to to other rush LBs goes back to the team not having a good pass rusher opposite him for the last 5 seasons and the fact he doesn't get sent at the QB as much as players like Matthews or Ware. I've said this before but notice the amount of times again he'll peel off a lineman to pick up a TE or RB coming out of the backfield. I don't see other top-flight rush LBs doing that.

The fact is, until either a consistent interior or outside pass rusher shows up on this team, Suggs won't put similar seasons as the best rush LBs on another team. But none of them make plays consistently against the run as he does though.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1287676131' post='515671']
Totally agree. His name doesn't belong up there with Ware, Harrison and Peppers anymore. He just cant get it done.
[/quote]
Peppers, the same guy who got stifled by Russell Okung...the rookie from Seattle this weekend. Ware who has Spears and Ratliff, Harrison who has Woodley, Timmons and Smith. Ill bash Suggs for being over paid, when we actually have someone else on the roster who can rush the passer and win a 1 on 1 matchup with consistency.

[flynismo]

Maybe a little OT, but someone help me out...What was the last three times a team scored 30+ on us? I think the most recent was the Giants in 2008. Then Pitts did it in late 2007, but I cant remember who did it before the Pitts game.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1287680204' post='515711']
Peppers, the same guy who got stifled by Russell Okung...the rookie from Seattle this weekend. Ware who has Spears and Ratliff, Harrison who has Woodley, Timmons and Smith. Ill bash Suggs for being over paid, when we actually have someone else on the roster who can rush the passer and win a 1 on 1 matchup with consistency.
[/quote]

Haloti Ngata. That man is on the other side. And it's not like Suggs is getting double teamed..

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287682051' post='515723']
Maybe a little OT, but someone help me out...What was the last three times a team scored 30+ on us? I think the most recent was the Giants in 2008. Then Pitts did it in late 2007, but I cant remember who did it before the Pitts game.
[/quote]

The Vikings did it last year scoring 33, the Colts did it in '08 scoring 31 and the Giants put up 30.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1287684673' post='515747']
Haloti Ngata. That man is on the other side. And it's not like Suggs is getting double teamed..
[/quote]

Ngata is having a phenomenal year but I wouldn't say he wins one-on-one match-ups in pass rushing situations consistently.

Suggs isn't double-teamed a lot but he does see them on obvious passing downs.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1287685832' post='515765']
Ngata is having a phenomenal year but I wouldn't say he wins one-on-one match-ups in pass rushing situations consistently.

Suggs isn't double-teamed a lot but he does see them on obvious passing downs.
[/quote]

I'm all for bringing in help for Suggs but I just feel he needs to shut his mouth and buckle his chin strap. Im sick of him mouthing off about Brady (as much as I hate Brady) when he really hasn't done anything all year.

Haloti Ngata has more sacks and more tackles for a loss and you don't see him running his mouth of. Also I hope Haloti doesn't hold out of training camp next year trying to get a bigger contract or sign with another team. I don't know why Ozzie hasn't signed him yet! its making me nauseous.

Also, If we do get Merriman (theoretically) would you think the coaches would slide JJ in the middle and have Shawne be an everydown backer? I personally like the idea of JJ playing Bart's old position. He would do a great job shedding guards and full backs so Ray can clean up.

I wonder if that was our gameplan for Kindle?