Helmet-To-Helmet Rule

[Malkavian Raven]

It's obvious the focus on player safety hasn't worked up till this point. In fact, it seems to be getting worse.

So, what do you think of the idea present above; should a player commit a helmet-to-helmet hit and injury another player, should they be suspended without pay until the injured player returns to action?

$25,000 is a drop in the bucket to these millionaires; maybe you take away 1/16 or more of their salary... they might be a little more cautious.

Let me know what you think. I would love to hear your feedback.

[thewarden86]

I'm usually one to say up the consequences rather than create another rule or law. But this one is tricky as it's not always possible to avoid helmet-to-helmet contact. In fact, it's rarely possible.

It's a contact sport and you will never remove injuries from the game. Educate the players and improve the equipment, but I'm not for further restricting the players on the field.

[XxSizzleXx]

^^^^^^^

Couldn't have said it better.

[Malkavian Raven]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1287450235' post='513174']
I'm usually one to say up the consequences rather than create another rule or law. But this one is tricky as it's not always possible to avoid helmet-to-helmet contact. In fact, it's rarely possible.

It's a contact sport and you will never remove injuries from the game. Educate the players and improve the equipment, but I'm not for further restricting the players on the field.
[/quote]

Perhaps not the best wording, this is regards to those who INTENTIONALLY drive their helmet into the opposing players.

I understand there is no way to stop them all, but those that are intentional .. or even after the play is dead .. could easily prevented when players think about their pocketbook. And they do...

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Malkavian Raven' timestamp='1287450401' post='513183']
Perhaps not the best wording, this is regards to [b]those who INTENTIONALLY drive their helmet into the opposing players.[/b]

I understand there is no way to stop them all, but those that are intentional .. or even after the play is dead .. could easily prevented when players think about their pocketbook. And they do...
[/quote]

But you need to be cautious about how and who interprets that. I don't think there is a fair way to do it.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of all of this "Football is too violent" campaign these last few years.

[Malkavian Raven]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1287450535' post='513188']
But you need to be cautious about how and who interprets that. I don't think there is a fair way to do it.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of all of this "Football is too violent" campaign these last few years.
[/quote]

I completely agree, let the guys play football, but do they have to worry about ending up in a wheelchair on gameday? Sure, they know the risks, but you can't call "open season" on receivers (or corners/safeties).

I don't know, perhaps a useless topic. I just wanted to bring it up as the NFL is kicking the can around at the moment on the same topic.

<BTW: Get out of my third place spot on Pick 'Ems! [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_brickwall.GIF[/img]>

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Malkavian Raven' timestamp='1287451034' post='513208']
I completely agree, let the guys play football, but do they have to worry about ending up in a wheelchair on gameday? Sure, they know the risks, but you can't call "open season" on receivers (or corners/safeties).

I don't know, perhaps a useless topic. I just wanted to bring it up as the NFL is kicking the can around at the moment on the same topic.
[/quote]

I don't think injuries are any more or less than they were 20+ years ago.

[hawkprey]

The thing is... I like defense, and this sounds like just another reason to make the defense even less capable of stopping offense. Besides, how do you rule for hits that are just good, hard hits? If the guy gets knocked out, what happens to the man who hit him?

There's probably a good scientific answer concerning the redesign of helmets. Hard helmets can reduce some of the impact. But since they're so hard, they can also increase impact. I feel like if helmets were taken out of the game, there'd be a lot less concussions and just a lot more "Ow, my eye!". As a fan of football AND the three stooges, I'm gonna go with the no helmet.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1287451655' post='513224']
The thing is... I like defense, and this sounds like just another reason to make the defense even less capable of stopping offense. Besides, how do you rule for hits that are just good, hard hits? If the guy gets knocked out, what happens to the man who hit him?

There's probably a good scientific answer concerning the redesign of helmets. Hard helmets can reduce some of the impact. But since they're so hard, they can also increase impact. [b]I feel like if helmets were taken out of the game, there'd be a lot less concussions and just a lot more "Ow, my eye!". As a fan of football AND the three stooges, I'm gonna go with the no helmet.[/b]
[/quote]

Clearly you are out of your mind.

[JO_75]

I agree about suspending players for helmet to helmet hits but if they do anything to further strict defenses I'm going to lose it. I have hated the rules recently with all favoring offenses, in fact that is the only reason why we have a Passing League because of the rules that stop a defense. I like what Goodell does when it comes to removing players from the league who did bad stuff but he is out of his mind making it a passing league. I really hope that they do something in fact why not do a 3 strike rule for INTENTIONAL Helmet to Helmet hits, meaning the player leans with his helmet.

1st Strike: Automatic Ejection from Games

2nd Strike: Ejection From Game and Fine

3rd Strike: Ejection and Suspension for 2 games unless the player is out for longer, but if the player is out for the season the player who initiated the contact must sit for 5 games.

I'm just hoping some day we see the rules get lifted and defense has some kind of say in the NFL again.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1287454949' post='513292']
I agree about suspending players for helmet to helmet hits but if they do anything to further strict defenses I'm going to lose it. I have hated the rules recently with all favoring offenses, in fact that is the only reason why we have a Passing League because of the rules that stop a defense. I like what Goodell does when it comes to removing players from the league who did bad stuff but he is out of his mind making it a passing league. I really hope that they do something in fact why not do a 3 strike rule for INTENTIONAL Helmet to Helmet hits, meaning the player leans with his helmet.

1st Strike: Automatic Ejection from Games

2nd Strike: Ejection From Game and Fine

3rd Strike: Ejection and Suspension for 2 games unless the player is out for longer, but if the player is out for the season the player who initiated the contact must sit for 5 games.

I'm just hoping some day we see the rules get lifted and defense has some kind of say in the NFL again.
[/quote]

But how do you determine if it was intentional? I don't believe many, if any, are intentional. This sounds like asking some official to determine another man's intentions and that sounds dangerous to me. Putting too much power into the hands of the unknown.

[Moderator 2]

I think the coaches need to go back to re-enforcing good fundamental tackling. Tackle what you see and see what you tackle. Certain players, Merriweather, Finnergan and yes Harrison are repeat offenders and should be put on notice. Suggs used to lose composure but this year has learn to reign it in

[BloodRaven]

How about this, if a hit is ruled intentional the defender should spend the same amount of time out.

[noy]

I think that there is no escaping the pressure the referees are going to face when calling this sort of stuff. This is a case where if you over enforce the rule, calling it prematurely to minimize the risk, it takes away from the game and incidental helmet to helmet hits. If you call it when the injury has already happened, you're really not doing anything for the safety of players.

Maybe they should instead adopt hockey-like rules? Any helmet to helmet hit should result in a suspension of the remaining series for the tackler in question. If he makes the hit on a 3rd/4th down play, he is suspended for the next defensive series. I think that is a good compromise between increasing the safety for players, and not taking too much from the game of football. Because once the player returns to the game, he's going to have his facemask staring right at the opponents chest every time.

And when I say helmet to helmet, I mean (like the NFL...I think) facemask staring at the ground, "missile" like hit to the helmet.

[BirdWatcher]

1st Strike: Automatic Ejection from Game and forfeit 1/2 of game check

2nd Strike: Ejection From Game and Suspension of 1 additional game (forfeit 1 1/2 game checks)

3rd Strike: Ejection and Suspension for 4 games (forfeit 4 1/2 game checks)

No trying to determine whether or not it was intentional. It really doesn't matter.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1287514453' post='513947']
1st Strike: Automatic Ejection from Game and forfeit 1/2 of game check

2nd Strike: Ejection From Game and Suspension of 1 additional game (forfeit 1 1/2 game checks)

3rd Strike: Ejection and Suspension for 4 games (forfeit 4 1/2 game checks)

[b]No trying to determine whether or not it was intentional. It really doesn't matter.[/b]
[/quote]

It absolutely does matter because many times it is the fault of the offensive player: See 2008 AFC Championship Game - Ryan Clarks hit on Willis McGahee; McGahee lowered his head in an effort to protect himself which is what led to the helmet to helmet contact that knocked out both players.

It matters and this whole thing is ridiculous IMO. What we're going to have is anytime a player gets a concussion is a fine and a suspension. It's crap and Goodell needs to focus his player protection campaign elsewhere IMO.

[BloodRaven]

I think this new rule will be subjective, and will single out blatantly obvious dirty hits like Meriweather on Heap.

[Ravens Beast]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1287515058' post='513953']
It absolutely does matter because many times it is the fault of the offensive player: See 2008 AFC Championship Game - Ryan Clarks hit on Willis McGahee; McGahee lowered his head in an effort to protect himself which is what led to the helmet to helmet contact that knocked out both players.

It matters and this whole thing is ridiculous IMO. What we're going to have is anytime a player gets a concussion is a fine and a suspension. It's crap and Goodell needs to focus his player protection campaign elsewhere IMO.
[/quote]

How many of the players this weekend that were on the receiving end of the hit lowered their heads? None.

The fact is that they are protecting both players. What good is the NFL if everyone is out with concussions? Helmet to helmet hits are dangerous. I'm sure the Rutgers player would like this rule. He led with his head and look at the guy now. Poor guy is paralyzed. How would you like to be his parents? Or his friend?

Leading with your head is dangerous. The fact is that there can still be those big hits. Just lead with the shoulder and it will still be a big hit. It just won't leave the person on the receiving end of the hit in the hospital.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Ravens Beast' timestamp='1287516862' post='514001']
[b]How many of the players this weekend that were on the receiving end of the hit lowered their heads? None.[/b]

The fact is that they are protecting both players. What good is the NFL if everyone is out with concussions? Helmet to helmet hits are dangerous. I'm sure the Rutgers player would like this rule. He led with his head and look at the guy now. [b]Poor guy is paralyzed. How would you like to be his parents? Or his friend?[/b]

Leading with your head is dangerous. The fact is that there can still be those big hits. [b]Just lead with the shoulder and it will still be a big hit. [/b]It just won't leave the person on the receiving end of the hit in the hospital.
[/quote]

How many players in the NFL have been paralyzed in the last ten years??? Don't go all drama queen on me either.

So are you saying ball carriers don't lower their heads???
Helmet-to-helmet is virtually unavoidable. How many players outside of New England to you think actually meant to have helmet-to-helmet contact? NONE! Where is your helmet Ravens Beast?? On top of your dang shoulders. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Turn on NFL Network and listen to the argument yourself. I'm tired of typing the same old thing only to have lazy posters not bother reading it.

[Ravens Beast]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1287517716' post='514026']
How many players in the NFL have been paralyzed in the last ten years??? Don't go all drama queen on me either.

So are you saying ball carriers don't lower their heads???
Helmet-to-helmet is virtually unavoidable. How many players outside of New England to you think actually meant to have helmet-to-helmet contact? NONE! Where is your helmet Ravens Beast?? On top of your dang shoulders. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Turn on NFL Network and listen to the argument yourself. I'm tired of typing the same old thing only to have lazy posters not bother reading it.
[/quote]

That was a cute little rant you had.

I'm just saying if that was your kid you'd think different bud. And when did I say "ball carriers don't lower their heads"?

Helmet to helmet is not unavoidable. Merill Hodge (sp?) and Teddy Bruschi both former NFL players say it is an avoidable hit. I mean unless you're a former NFL star then I don't think you have a stronger argument against theirs.

And I never said they mean to have helmet to helmet contact. But now that it will be heavily enforced I think they will think twice before doing that. Which will help avoid them being vegetables when they're 70 years old.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Ravens Beast' timestamp='1287518216' post='514040']
That was a cute little rant you had.

I'm just saying if that was your kid you'd think different bud. And when did I say "ball carriers don't lower their heads"?

Helmet to helmet is not unavoidable. Merill Hodge (sp?) and Teddy Bruschi both former NFL players say it is an avoidable hit. I mean unless you're a former NFL star then I don't think you have a stronger argument against theirs.

And I never said they mean to have helmet to helmet contact. But now that it will be heavily enforced I think they will think twice before doing that. Which will help avoid them being vegetables when they're 70 years old.
[/quote]
You weren't "just saying" anything. You asked me how I would feel if I was that kids parent. What kind of crap is that? How the heck do you think I'd feel??? The fact is, he was paralyzed (and hopefully makes a full recovery) due to him lowering his head and trying to avoid being hit.

And, for every Merrill Hodge and Tedy Bruschi, I can give you five former NFL players that disagree with this new suspension idea.

[MsMarvel73]

Got the ESPN mobile alert...Meriweather's getting fined $50,000 for the helmet-to-helmets.

Big freaking deal....that isn't going to affect him at all. Thank goodness Heap's ok.

[berad]

[quote name='PARavensgirl' timestamp='1287520107' post='514070']
Got the ESPN mobile alert...Meriweather's getting fined $50,000 for the helmet-to-helmets.

Big freaking deal....that isn't going to affect him at all. Thank goodness Heap's ok.
[/quote]

$50,000? That's a lot of dough. I can't remember a fine being that high..

Anyways, [color="#8B0000"][b]MOD NOTE[/b][/color]

[i]Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Drop it and move on, discuss the topic without violating the Code of Conduct. Name-calling isn't the way to go. If it continues, we'll end it for you.[/i]

[MsMarvel73]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1287520490' post='514074']
$50,000? That's a lot of dough. I can't remember a fine being that high..
[/quote]

For us poor folk, of course it's a lot of dough...but a minuscule amount for someone who makes millions. Like I said, big freaking deal.

[berad]

[quote name='PARavensgirl' timestamp='1287520593' post='514076']
For us poor folk, of course it's a lot of dough...but a minuscule amount for someone who makes millions. Like I said, big freaking deal.
[/quote]

I agree. Those hits on Heap were unacceptable and dangerous. I would have liked to see more but, then again, I'm biased. On the bright side, that $50,000 goes to a good cause.

[BloodRaven]

Looks like the going rate for shelling out a KO or helmet shot is now $50,000 a pop.

[MsMarvel73]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1287520889' post='514085']
Looks like the going rate for shelling out a KO or helmet shot is now $50,000 a pop.
[/quote]

I need to figure out how to put my standard response in my sig taglines.


BFD!

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='PARavensgirl' timestamp='1287520107' post='514070']
Got the ESPN mobile alert...Meriweather's getting fined $50,000 for the helmet-to-helmets.

Big freaking deal....that isn't going to affect him at all. Thank goodness Heap's ok.
[/quote]

$50k is 10% of his salary this year.

[MsMarvel73]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1287521900' post='514105']
$50k is 10% of his salary this year.
[/quote]

That still doesn't convince me that this will be any kind of deterrent.

[BloodRaven]

If I was fined 10% of my earnings I'd clean up my act for damn sure. After that there are suspensions without pay.