Cameron

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287461422' post='513413']
None of that exactly is much of a defense for him.

No one here is basing it off of one game; for a lot of us, this is the game that broke the camel's back.
[/quote]

Exactly, there have been concerns after almost every game. He doesn't seem to adjust well, and he tries to be creative instead of just utilizing our weapons and doing what's best. It's like he plays against the odds sometimes, and that's not what good teams do. Belichick doesn't do it. When he went for that fourth down last year, the odds were actually pretty even, on his side slightly. This is different, Cam just FAILS sometimes.

[flynismo]

[quote name='heapitup247' timestamp='1287461904' post='513419']<br />So none of us were pleased two years ago when we made it to the AFCG with a rookie QB? And no one here was impressed with Flacco and the offense at all? Was anyone impressed when we beat the Pats 34-7 last year in the playoffs? Were we all not satisfied with Ray Rice having 1000+ yards and Flacco throwing for 3600 last year? <br /><br />While I realize we're not satisfied as a whole without a super bowl, to fire a guy who has changed an offense from 12th in the AFC in points to 9th in the NFL in points two years later is absolutely ridiculous.<br />[/quote]

You clearly dont get what we're saying. It's anything BUT ridiculous. Ridiculous is having the talent that we do, and ranking in the 20's in total offense. Ridiculous is yesterday's game. Ridiculous is our offensive performance in every single postseason game we have played, other than the one example you were able to muster. Ridiculous is never being able to beat elite teams the last couple years, other than a game at the Jets and Steelers. Cam needs to go.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='heapitup247' timestamp='1287461904' post='513419']
So none of us were pleased two years ago when we made it to the AFCG with a rookie QB? And no one here was impressed with Flacco and the offense at all? Was anyone impressed when we beat the Pats 34-7 last year in the playoffs? Were we all not satisfied with Ray Rice having 1000+ yards and Flacco throwing for 3600 last year?

While I realize we're not satisfied as a whole without a super bowl, to fire a guy who has changed an offense from 12th in the AFC in points to 9th in the NFL in points two years later is absolutely ridiculous.
[/quote]

Cam didn't engineer some kind of awesome game plan for the Patriots last year!!! Rice broke free on the first play, Suggs stripped Brady and we got another TD, and we intercepted Brady 3 times. We barely had to move the ball to get our points, and then we just ran our way to victory.

People are now realizing that it's not Flacco, it's Cam. He's ineffective sometimes, have you forgotten the Colts game when we scored 3? Rice had 2000+ yards and was our leading receiver, and Flacco had a good season but I believe he's capable of better against good teams.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='heapitup247' timestamp='1287461904' post='513419']
[b]So none of us were pleased two years ago when we made it to the AFCG with a rookie QB? And no one here was impressed with Flacco and the offense at all?[/b] Was anyone impressed [b]when we beat the Pats 34-7 last year[/b] in the playoffs? Were we all not satisfied with Ray Rice having 1000+ yards and Flacco throwing for 3600 last year?

While I realize we're not satisfied as a whole without a super bowl, to fire a guy who has changed an offense from 12th in the AFC in points to 9th in the NFL in points two years later is absolutely ridiculous.
[/quote]
The offense wasn't impressive that year as far as Flacco is concerned, but he was a good enough game-manager to let our offense run to victory and throw when absolutely necessary. Now he's capable of winning games with this offense and Cam isn't giving him that opportunity.

Rex Ryan and the turnover forcing monsters we called our D that year took us to the AFC Championship...not the offense.

The score was 33-14, for starters...and no one would argue that Cameron hasn't given us a good running game the past two seasons (something he has yet to consistently do this year). The best part is that running play to start the Patriots playoff game last year was a play that a kid with double-vision suggested Cameron use, not Cameron himself (featured on Sunday NFL Countdown). Pretty ironic to our current debate...highlighting that fact that thus far this season, Cameron has been an awful coordinator. It's a blessing that we're 4-2.

[berad]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1287461280' post='513409']
After we blow out the laughingstock of the NFL? Sorry Berad..I'll still be frustrated .
[/quote]

Haha so be it. I will be dancing!

[DrMoonTooth]

I just hope some one of significance relays similar frustrations to Bisciotti, Newsome, Harbaugh, or Cameron himself some time soon.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1287463382' post='513434']
Haha so be it. I will be dancing!
[/quote]
I will for a while, but ONLY if we beat them by a reasonable margin. And by reasonable, I mean 30+ points .

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1287463797' post='513438']
I will for a while, but ONLY if we beat them by a reasonable margin. And by reasonable, I mean 30+ points .
[/quote]

The Bills were able to go into Foxboro and put up 31 points. We had better not overlook them.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='heapitup247' timestamp='1287459487' post='513382']
Hindsight Bias. Knowing the outcome of the plays and the game is something Cam doesn't have when he calls them.
[/quote]

Man are you serious? We're not talking about one series of downs here. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result".

[ZIBBY28]

I just don't get it... more votes to fire than keep... really? I'm honestly baffled.

[wayne]

Cam needs to work on his short yardage gameplan and be ready to change his scheme up a little after halftime . I more mad at Mattison than Cam, we got into a stretch at the end of the game where we only rushed our front 4 with no sign of showing blitz or blitzing, very bone headed thing to do against a QB like Brady.

As far as Cam getting fired, not yet...... lets see how he bounce back from this loss as far as using it as a learning experience . I feel Cam has seen all aspects of us losing with this Pats game sort of being a new element of us losing like we did.

[Ravenseconbeast]

All check-downs and short passes on last 5minute of the game (patriots had all rookie CB and Flacco can beat those vulnerable secondary.

As for defense, so many useless backfield secondary help with so little pressure in the front against Brady.


We played to lose on Patriots game on 4th quarter, and its really unfortunate..considering we had 10 points lead.

Hard to eat Brady skirt's words but : "1 game out of 9".

Don't let this happen in the playoffs.

[Perfekt]

Cam doesnt need to be fired he needs to finish this season out then we get a new OC in the offseason.

[letsgoflacco]

I don't think that we should fire Cam. That is taking this too far too fast.

I think Cam needs to take this leash off of Joe Flacco. You saw the frustration Joe had in the fourth quarter, he HAS to run certain plays. Cam doesn't allow him to change plays. All those check downs were called in the huddle. Everyone sees how good Joe is in the no-huddle when he takes command. Joe is a third-year QB and should be able to have some freedom. When facing an opposing offense like the Patriots you can't be as conservative as he was, especially with the game on the line.

Cam had a very good game plan going in, but I don't understand why he completely abandoned it. We got Joe all of these play makers so that this wouldn't happen. But guess what, it did. Hopefully Cam will wake up from this because we won't go far in the playoffs like this.

[Jamal]

Firing him is not the answer. We'd be handing Zorn the Offensive duties, and that is basically giving up on the season....

With that being said, if we still had someone like Hugh Jackson, I would definitely consider firing him if he keeps this up.

We are 4-2 in spite of Cam. I really don't see why we lose a game if we had an O-coordinator who had some common sense. I mean, when my little brother is guessing the plays and nailing them, what makes you think the best coach in football wouldn't notice it?

[ravenanchors]

Abandoning the game plan:
The pats expected the ravens to come out running the ball like last time. Instead the ravens came out throwing and had success. Pats adjusted their game plan to take away the simple pass. Cam never adjusted his play calling. Cam just continued callling the same plays over and over again until the fourth quarter when he started checking the ball to Rice in hopes that Rice would break a big one and make Cam look like a genuis. The pats were waiting for him.

Cam's play design is very simple. Everyone knows (the fans, opponents) what play he is running. There is no deception or strategy. And the players run very simple routes. So when the opponent takes away these simple routes, Cam has no other strategy or any other play to counter with.

If Cam is fired during the season, it would not be a big loss or difficult transistion because, his game plan and play calling are all very simple route running that every O.C. has in their playbook.

So either give the play calling duties to someone else or fire him, I'm agreable to either one.
The problem, is there really a O.C. sitting around waiting to be hired??

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287462378' post='513425']
You clearly dont get what we're saying. It's anything BUT ridiculous. Ridiculous is having the talent that we do, and ranking in the 20's in total offense. Ridiculous is yesterday's game. Ridiculous is our offensive performance in every single postseason game we have played, other than the one example you were able to muster. Ridiculous is never being able to beat elite teams the last couple years, other than a game at the Jets and Steelers. Cam needs to go.
[/quote]

I am adding to your replying to heapitup

From the statements Harbs is making, I think he is getting the message. His retort has been Politically correct and he's trying to defend his coaches without saying everyone is wrong, but I think he understands the problem.

Ridiculous is:
Cincinati ------ Ravens running the ball effectively but abandoning it to throw the ball and sticking with the passing game when passing wasn't working and running would have won the game.

Denver ------ Ravens passing the ball effectively but when Denver adjusted their game plan, Cam continued to throw even though it was ineffective. He had no other game plan prepared.

Steelers ------ Ravens couldn't win by more than 3 points against a 3rd string QB.

Browns -------- Really, the last place team in the AFC North. Ravens couldn't score more points?

Patriots -------- Ravens had the game won. All Cam had to do was call the plays to control the ball and run the clock out.

The Ravens punted the ball an extrordinary amount of times because of Pats (last in the league --30th) defense.

This is unacceptable. Changes need to be made.
And for those who think this loss is no big deal. There are a couple of things that set this loss apart.
The Ravens need to beat Colts, Pats, Steelers, Jets, Cincinati to make the playoffs. The last couple of years it was the same story, Ravens cannot beat the good teams. This year we know why.

Cam's play calling is not something that can be fixed by learning from our loss. Cam has the experience to not make these mistakes. Cam will not improve because the problem lies within himself. (Ego, Arrogant, Controlling) and these are things he will not change.
In other words Cam's play calling is not based on sound football fundamentals. His play calling is based on a personal challenge to his ego and pride to show how good he is, not how good the players are.

[Jamal]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1287502441' post='513733']
I am adding to your replying to heapitup

From the statements Harbs is making, I think he is getting the message. His retort has been Politically correct and he's trying to defend his coaches without saying everyone is wrong, but I think he understands the problem.

Ridiculous is:
Cincinati ------ Ravens running the ball effectively but abandoning it to throw the ball and sticking with the passing game when passing wasn't working. Running would have won the game.

Denver ------ Ravens passing the ball effectively but when Denver adjusted their game plan, Cam continued to throw even though it was ineffective. He had no other game plan prepared.

Steelers ------ Ravens couldn't win by more than 3 points against a 3rd string QB.

Browns -------- Really, the last place team in the AFC North. Ravens couldn't score more points?

Patriots -------- Ravens had the game won. All Cam had to do was call the plays to control the ball and run the clock out.

The Ravens punted the ball an extrordinary amount of times because of Pats (last in the league --30th) defense.
[/quote]
Aren't you noticing a pattern in most games. Flacco starts off great, but eventually slows down. Cam is so predictable that eventually any NFL team begins to figure his 5 plays out.

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1287503065' post='513746']
Aren't you noticing a pattern in most games. Flacco starts off great, but eventually slows down. Cam is so predictable that eventually any NFL team begins to figure his 5 plays out.
[/quote]
I agree,
Flacco is almost perfect in the 1st and 2nd quarters. The defenses adjust to take those plays away and Cam doesn't adjust his play calling.

Cam's philosophy is the Ravens players are better the the opposition players, so they must be able to beat them and we will win the game. There is no strategy involved.

[SnOoPy]

I don't know why. When we play a average or below average defense our Offense make it seems like we're playing against a #1 defense...

[Perfekt]

Makes you miss seeing broken plays like the one in Pitt.

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='SnOoPy' timestamp='1287507411' post='513820']
I don't know why. When we play a average or below average defense our Offense make it seems like we're playing against a #1 defense...
[/quote]

Thats a fact!
Why do the Ravens play down to other teams?

[Shawn`]

This thread is another example of the Catch 22 with fans, which is why it's a little frustrating.

Fans want everything from everyone in the offense, and when that doesn't happen (often) then they get mad.

When Joe throws the ball more than Rice carries it's: Cam should've run rice more! Fire him!
When Rice runs for almost 30 attempts it's: Cam isn't "unleashing" Flacco to his true power, Fire him!

I swear sometimes ignorance is bliss when it comes to threads like these.

[bauer77]

[quote name='Shawn`' timestamp='1287508945' post='513857']
This thread is another example of the Catch 22 with fans, which is why it's a little frustrating.

Fans want everything from everyone in the offense, and when that doesn't happen (often) then they get mad.

When Joe throws the ball more than Rice carries it's: Cam should've run rice more! Fire him!
When Rice runs for almost 30 attempts it's: Cam isn't "unleashing" Flacco to his true power, Fire him!

I swear sometimes ignorance is bliss when it comes to threads like these.
[/quote]



agreed. actually its this whole forum tho XD

[flynismo]

Hey Cam, let us do your job for you!1. Send Boldin over the middle, or have him run intermediate and deep routes. If you feel like getting crazy and actually, you know, mixing things up a little, use him for an occasion screen2. Heap should be splitting safeties every chance you get, especially if you are doing #1 above3. Keep doing what you're doing with Mason4. Use McGahee often in the first half. We want a fresh Rice facing a tired and beaten up defense the second half.5. There's this guy TJ on our team. Have you heard of him? He's pretty good, there's all sorts of things we can use him for...if nothing else, he could be used as a decoy to spread the field and open it up further for the other guys6. Stop treating Flacco like a little ****. Show some faith in the guy and give him more freedom to run this offense. What could possibly happen? It's not like he'd do any worse than you are doing.7. Go jump off a cliff.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1287508900' post='513855']<br />Thats a fact!<br />Why do the Ravens play down to other teams?<br />[/quote]

I dont see that at all. The last couple of years we have devastated mediocre defenses. Its the good/elite ones we have had trouble with.

[ravenanchors]

We have this year
I wouldn't call the following games blowouts, although they should have been.

Cincinati (loosing team -- defense 13th) Lost 10 to 15 we played down to them
Browns (last place AFCN - defense 23rd) Won 17 to 24 we played down to them
Denver (defense 19th) 17 to 31 finally, got something going
Patriots (defense 30th) 20 to 23 really, thats sad

[flynismo]

Are we playing down to them, or are there other issues rearing their ugly (blonde haired, bespeckled) head?

[Gtown Purple]

Their are other issues such as penalties and inconsistency. Harbs was adamant about special teams play. There is a article about it on the front page and inside Harbs makes some pretty strong statements (for him) about certain plays and how they affected us. He even dropped some names and he has a point. Why are kickoffs from the -3 and -4 being brought out? Why did 4 of 6 punts hit the ground? Why can't we avoid holding and illegal blocks that put us on a long field? I expect some personnel changes and Harbs clearly isn't happy. He knows this game was ours to win. I think in the long run this loss makes us better.



[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287512631' post='513923']
Are we playing down to them, or are there other issues rearing their ugly (blonde haired, bespeckled) head?
[/quote]

[True]

I just hope other teams don't catch on like the Pats did. They shifted to a Cover 2 late in the 4th quarter and all of a sudden the passing became super conservative. Outside of the Jets/Steelers who love to blitz, most defenses will start to shift to Cover 2 zone and cause problems for our passing game. A two WR set, with maybe a a TE on a occasion is not going to help when the opposing defenses have 8 guys in coverage meaning all the receivers have at least two guys on them. And if you're going to do a check down to Ray Rice, make sure he's AT LEAST 5 yards out instead of just a couple from the LOS.

Spread the ball. Go to a 3 WR set, with a TE running a hitch route and a RB coming out of the backfield to the outside instead of in the middle where the LBs can spot and tackle him. You're telling me with all the offensive talent the Ravens have, that not ONE will get a good look when going up against a Cover 2? The Ravens want to be the best "Smash Mouth" team in football. Well that doesn't apply only to defense, it has to apply to the offense and the whole team.