Merged: Why Flacco Is Our Franchise Qb

[flynismo]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1287358542' post='511304']<br />&quot;Clutch enough&quot; is a very important trademark for a QB. For you to dismiss that as not a credible trait for a QB to have..then I'm not sure what you expect out of a QB. Why is Ben Rothlisberger heralded as one of the top 10 best quarterbacks these past few seasons? Because he is clutch. He makes the throws at the end of the games to win them, super bowls included. He doesn't have amazing stats but he's won championships. If you're satisfied with Flacco having great game stats, but not being &quot;clutch&quot; then play fantasy football. Being clutch wins the games that matter. <br /><br />Flacco played a great game. No one is denying that. But when it mattered the most--Crunch time--he (as well as the bad play calling) did not show up. He is in part to blame for the loss. You continually shield him away and allow for no one to criticize him, but are fine with saying it was the defenses fault we lost the game. I'm trying to be objectionable here, but it just seems you're being an angry Joe Flacco fan who's mad that people are making points about how Flacco--IN PART--cost us the game. If you're a fan of a player I'm fine with that. But I'm a fan of the Ravens and will criticize everyone on the team if I find them in fault.<br />[/quote]

obviously being 'clutch' is important. So lets talk about that. What did flacco do exactly to screw up? Did he throw a crucial interception? Did he fumble the ball? Did he miss a wide open reciever? Did he take an unnecessary sack? Was he off target on makeable plays?

OR

was he working with what he was given? Were the recievers getting open? Was the run game helping moving the ball to take the heat off of the recievers? Was Cameron calling a brilliant game but Flacco couldn't execute?

Someone please tell me how Flacco screwed up.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1287358666' post='511311']<br />I'll defend Flacco to the hilt.<br /><br />When we were throwing we were winning, so, as he always does, Cam decided to move away from what was working. When your opposition has a secondary as weak as the Patriots you attack it, repeatedly. When we did Flacco put up impressive numbers and we got a pretty good lead. The passing game was WORKING. I don't care if you're trying to run the clock, when something is working you STICK with it, particularly when the other aspect of your offense is producing mediocre/poor results.<br /><br />Hypothetically, had we stuck to throwing the ball we would have won. The Patriots couldn't stop it so Cam did them a favour and shut it down himself.<br /><br />Joe played well and deserves very little, if any, of the blame. Cam Cameron, however, should shoulder a whole lot of it.<br />[/quote]

I've tried and tried to give cameron the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the playcalling, but I just cant do it anymore. I cant wait for him to be replaced. He and the defense gift wrapped this game for new england in the final quarter.

[True]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287359538' post='511344']
obviously being 'clutch' is important. So lets talk about that. What did flacco do exactly to screw up? Did he throw a crucial interception? Did he fumble the ball? Did he miss a wide open reciever? Did he take an unnecessary sack? Was he off target on makeable plays?

OR

was he working with what he was given? Were the recievers getting open? Was the run game helping moving the ball to take the heat off of the recievers? Was Cameron calling a brilliant game but Flacco couldn't execute?

Someone please tell me how Flacco screwed up.
[/quote]

1:51 left in the 4th. 3 straight checkdowns to Ray Rice, only one being caught. Mind you he was in shotgun formation so he had time to find a receiver and get him the ball. Afterwards, New England got the ball back and tied the game.

Beginning of overtime. 2 straight check downs to Ray Rice again. Missed a short pass to Anquan Boldin out of the shotgun.

Second to last drive of the Ravens in overtime on the New England 48. 3rd and 6. Threw the ball to a double covered Todd Heap.

No he did not screwup (and I never said that so not sure what you expected me to say) but he did not execute. Cam Cameron made the calls--and as I have repeatedly said--this game was lost more due to the coaching mistakes-but Flacco (as well as the whole offense, but you CANNOT exclude him) were at fault for not delivering towards the end of the game. Yes the defense could have stepped up, but when the playing field was even during OT and they did their job, the offense didn't help them out.

[TSizzle00]

Joe needed to do a bit more in the 4th and OT.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='True' timestamp='1287360598' post='511378']<br />1:51 left in the 4th. 3 straight checkdowns to Ray Rice, only one being caught. Mind you he was in shotgun formation so he had time to find a receiver and get him the ball. Afterwards, New England got the ball back and tied the game. <br /><br />Beginning of overtime. 2 straight check downs to Ray Rice again. Missed a short pass to Anquan Boldin out of the shotgun.<br /><br />Second to last drive of the Ravens in overtime on the New England 48. 3rd and 6. Threw the ball to a double covered Todd Heap. <br /><br />No he did not screwup (and I never said that so not sure what you expected me to say) but he did not execute. Cam Cameron made the calls--and as I have repeatedly said--this game was lost more due to the coaching mistakes-but Flacco (as well as the whole offense, but you CANNOT exclude him)  were at fault for not delivering towards the end of the game. Yes the defense could have stepped up, but when the playing field was even during OT and they did their job, the offense didn't help them out.<br />[/quote]

Heap wasnt doubled up on. McCourty was the only one covering him that entire play.
And when you have a 6'5 TE being single covered by a rookie, you throw him the ball.

And all these other plays, I dont see how they reflect poorly on flacco's ability to execute. I dont remember the pass that boldin missed, but I know who's fault all the checkdowns were .... His name rhymes with Kam Kameron. He should have grown a set and have either Boldin or Heap splitting safeties, not being glorified checkdown men 6 yards down field.
,,,,

[True]

Ok as fun as our little debate has been, I think we've hit a point where we both understand each others point. The common problem we can both agree on that the coaching was at fault and that inepts Flaccos ability down the stretch. Cam needs to take the training wheels off Flacco and let him sling it at the end of games. High risk, high reward. He doesn't have to be Brett Favre, but let him control the tempo of the game. Flacco is BEST when we go with the no huddle like during the end of the Steelers game.

So lets sign off with a truce eh?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287361610' post='511428']
,

Heap wasnt doubled up on. McCourty was the only one covering him that entire play.
And when you have a 6'5 TE being single covered by a rookie, you throw him the ball.

And all these other plays, I dont see how they reflect poorly on flacco's ability to execute. I dont remember the pass that boldin missed, but I know who's fault all the checkdowns were .... His name rhymes with Kam Kameron. He should have grown a set and have either Boldin or Heap splitting safeties, not being glorified checkdown men 6 yards down field.
,,,,
[/quote]
There was a LB helping underneath on the play, and on that exact same play Boldin had 3 yards separation on the corner in the slot after the corner tried to jam him.

[Guest RBates]

Flacco is not elite. He finds ways to throw check downs way to much during games. Although his receivers never say anything they body language suggests that they are frustrated with alot of his poor decision making. This offense is no where near elite right now with all these weapons. Honestly play action passes are all we can really muster at this point. Find a way to beat good teams on a consistent bases, if you want to be elite.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1287363733' post='511500']
Flacco is not elite. He finds ways to throw check downs way to much during games. Although his receivers never say anything they body language suggests that they are frustrated with alot of his poor decision making. This offense is no where near elite right now with all these weapons. Honestly play action passes are all we can really muster at this point. Find a way to beat good teams on a consistent bases, if you want to be elite.
[/quote]

Joe "finds ways to throw check-downs"? Seiously? So what was he doing when he engineered long drives punctuated by TD throws to Heap and Q? Or when he found Mason in the end-zone when the score was 17-10 but Mason bobbled it and couldn't make the grab?

Obviously, Joe isn't elite nor is the offense but how many offenses led by a third-year QB and so many new weapons can be considered such? Hmm...none.

The fact is, the offense made some big plays today but the coaches chose not to trust them to get one yard and put the game away early in the 4th quarter. To me, the game turned at that moment.

[rlh445]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287357457' post='511253']
And if he had thrown for 400 yards, 3 TD and had a perfect QB rating he'd probably still be criticised for our loss for not getting one more drive to win the game, which is basically what this is amounting to, because he's not "clutch enough" or for whatever other reason people can come up with. I used stats to point out the fact that he played very well today. If people want someone to criticize, criticize the running game, the play calling and the defense, not Flacco.
[/quote]

Nobody is perfect, fly! To put this loss on say, the running game is weird without putting some of it on Joe as well. Why wasn't Rice breaking any? One, they were keying in on Rice all game. Two, we weren't lighting it up enough for them to back off. Three, there were many times I'd watch them line up and say, 'Come on Joe, audible, look at them! They're all just sitting in the box waiting for the run we ALL know you're going to do!' and then they'd do the run play and get stuffed. And then you can look at the playcalling and say the same things, and on down the line. To say Flacco was perfect and deserves no blame for the loss is just silly..I'm sure Joe himself would say he made some mistakes he'd like to have back.

I know you're arguing about the people who are going overboard and blaming JUST Flacco, or saying to cut him or whatever, just thought I'd throw my point of view out there.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1287358666' post='511311']
I'll defend Flacco to the hilt.

When we were throwing we were winning, so, as he always does, Cam decided to move away from what was working. When your opposition has a secondary as weak as the Patriots you attack it, repeatedly. When we did Flacco put up impressive numbers and we got a pretty good lead. The passing game was WORKING. I don't care if you're trying to run the clock, when something is working you STICK with it, particularly when the other aspect of your offense is producing mediocre/poor results.

Hypothetically, had we stuck to throwing the ball we would have won. The Patriots couldn't stop it so Cam did them a favour and shut it down himself.

Joe played well and deserves very little, if any, of the blame. Cam Cameron, however, should shoulder a whole lot of it.
[/quote]

I totally agree with you...

I was so mad that when we have some rhythm going like passing and Cam decides to take it away and replaces with something not working. Who cares about winning the ball game with one dimentional offense? It's the point of playing smart and stick with something working.

Like I said last time, Bilichik will shut Rice down and make Joe beat him. Joe did beat him first half and second half we decided to run the ball, even not working.

Cam is sturborn sometimes. Damn he needs to play smart, keep it simple, and go with the flow.

/rant.....

[rlh445]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1287358666' post='511311']
I'll defend Flacco to the hilt.

When we were throwing we were winning, so, as he always does, Cam decided to move away from what was working. When your opposition has a secondary as weak as the Patriots you attack it, repeatedly. When we did Flacco put up impressive numbers and we got a pretty good lead. The passing game was WORKING. I don't care if you're trying to run the clock, when something is working you STICK with it, particularly when the other aspect of your offense is producing mediocre/poor results.

Hypothetically, had we stuck to throwing the ball we would have won. The Patriots couldn't stop it so Cam did them a favour and shut it down himself.

Joe played well and deserves very little, if any, of the blame. Cam Cameron, however, should shoulder a whole lot of it.
[/quote]

See, this is what I mean. How do you know Cam just stopped doing what was working because he felt like it? Obviously Belichek made adjustments at half time and did something to confuse the offense and made it harder for Joe to make the throws he was making. It wasn't JUST that Cam decided to play conservative ball. The Patriots D may not be the greatest, but they're still pro ball players and played good enough to force us to make different decisions..unfortunately those decisions were horrible ones.

[IMissMattStover]

Im with you guys. Im tired of people bashing Joe because of poor pass protection and poor play calling. Flacco is an outstanding quarterback in big shoes. lay off and let him learn.

[BloodRaven]

People are allowed to criticise Joe.

Personally, I don't particularly care how well he does against a bad defense. How he plays during this postseason is all that matters.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1287371851' post='511782']
People are allowed to criticise Joe.

Personally, I don't particularly care how well he does against a bad defense. [b]How he plays during this postseason is all that matters.[/b]
[/quote]
So you're not a fan of his, I take it?

[flaccopoe]

Flacco was doing great today until Cam made his fatal orders. He had some of his best stats made against the Patriots, which is no small achievement. I'm sure that he'll learn from this loss to trounce the Bills at M&T!

[Kwothdaraven]

Looks like a statline a tom brady or peyton manning would put up doesent it? But no thats joe flacco on the road in possibly the hardest field to play on with tom brady under center. Brady has 2 of the top 5 longest winning streaks at home in nfl history.

Sometimes i cant beleive ravens fans. Joe flacco outperformed hall of famer tom brady today abd somehow hes still garbage to some "fans". Im not sure what more you can ask for. Being on the road in the toughest stadium and a few dumb calls/penalties cost us that game, NOT joe flacco. Flacco was a stud, ebd of story. Cabt wait to see him continue his dominance since the cinci game.

How about we talk about how joe flacco has completely wiped away his 4int performance and has since been one if the best qbs in the nfl. You would think a career worst performance would atleast rattle him a little, but no, he completely flipped the script. Beast.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='Kwothdaraven' timestamp='1287375483' post='511857']
Looks like a statline a tom brady or peyton manning would put up doesent it? But no thats joe flacco on the road in possibly the hardest field to play on with tom brady under center. Brady has 2 of the top 5 longest winning streaks at home in nfl history.

Sometimes i cant beleive ravens fans. Joe flacco outperformed hall of famer tom brady today abd somehow hes still garbage to some "fans". Im not sure what more you can ask for. Being on the road in the toughest stadium and a few dumb calls/penalties cost us that game, NOT joe flacco. Flacco was a stud, ebd of story. Cabt wait to see him continue his dominance since the cinci game.

How about we talk about how joe flacco has completely wiped away his 4int performance and has since been one if the best qbs in the nfl. You would think a career worst performance would atleast rattle him a little, but no, he completely flipped the script. Beast.
[/quote]
If Cam can unleash Joe and let him be himself at best....

[Shawn`]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1287375612' post='511860']
If Cam can unleash Joe and let him be himself at best....
[/quote]

Right, because Cam [b][i]wants [/i][/b]to keep Joe performing at an average level, it's his plot to rule to world!

[Romo Ravens]

Nobody is even bashing Joe on these boards. He had a great day, but Cameron's inability to think with his brain during crucial moments in the game overshadows Flacco's elite performance along with a loss.... But without making this into another Cam thread, good job by our stud QB today

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1287372800' post='511799']
So you're not a fan of his, I take it?
[/quote]

I'm not. Like I said, I only care how he plays in the offseason.

[I AM LEGEND]

I thought Flacco played extremely well....for 95% of the game....then came the check Down panicky Flacco that scares me to death....



Once again ill say the word is consistency with Flacco.....


But like I said for the most part it was a good game by Joe

I think a lot of blame should be put on Ray Rice...they gave him the ball and he couldn't do much with it

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1287376442' post='511875']
I thought Flacco played extremely well....for 95% of the game....then came the check Down panicky Flacco that scares me to death....



Once again ill say the word is consistency with Flacco.....


But like I said for the most part it was a good game by Joe

I think a lot of blame should be put on Ray Rice...they gave him the ball and he couldn't do much with it
[/quote]

Really? You're going to blame Rice for earning every yard he got today? Please...

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1287376563' post='511877']
Really? You're going to blame Rice for searning every yard he got today? Please...
[/quote]

Ray continuously did the same cut back move every run...he was facing an average at best run defense...cam got him the ball over 23 times I believe and ray really.didn't do much ..


Not blaming him...but id put more blame on him then Joe

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1287376791' post='511878']
Ray continuously did the same cut back move every run...he was facing an average at best run defense...cam got him the ball over 23 times I believe and ray really.didn't do much ..

Not blaming him...but id put more blame on him then Joe
[/quote]

They've been average against the run up till today but knew they'd see a lot of Rice and limited him to 3 yard runs for most of the game. They were able to further clamp down Cam got conservative.

Regardless, you just wrote in the previous post that "a lot of blame should be put on Rice" and I couldn't disagree more. He didn't fumble the ball away did his best to gain positive yardage.

I think Cam should have gotten McGahee more involved considering Rice's struggles but Ray played well in my opinion.

[Moderator 2]

[color="#800080"]Joes stats [/color]since the [color="#ff8c00"]Bengal mess[/color]
[color="#800080"]6 Touchdowns [/color][color="#ff0000"]1 Interception[/color]
999 Passing Yards 87/128
68% Completion Rate
7.8 YPA

[b]103.6 Quarterback Rating[/b]

[rlh445]

[quote name='Kwothdaraven' timestamp='1287375483' post='511857']
Looks like a statline a tom brady or peyton manning would put up doesent it? But no thats joe flacco on the road in possibly the hardest field to play on with tom brady under center. Brady has 2 of the top 5 longest winning streaks at home in nfl history.

Sometimes i cant beleive ravens fans. Joe flacco outperformed hall of famer tom brady today abd somehow hes still garbage to some "fans". Im not sure what more you can ask for. Being on the road in the toughest stadium and a few dumb calls/penalties cost us that game, NOT joe flacco. Flacco was a stud, ebd of story. Cabt wait to see him continue his dominance since the cinci game.

How about we talk about how joe flacco has completely wiped away his 4int performance and has since been one if the best qbs in the nfl. You would think a career worst performance would atleast rattle him a little, but no, he completely flipped the script. Beast.
[/quote]

Good post. I think it's flawed, but that's okay. He did play well in this game. No turnovers from him is really important. But to say that only 'a few' dumb calls and penalties were responsible and Joe was entirely blameless? Come on man!

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1287376442' post='511875']
I thought Flacco played extremely well....for 95% of the game....then came the check Down panicky Flacco that scares me to death....



Once again ill say the word is consistency with Flacco.....


But like I said for the most part it was a good game by Joe

I think a lot of blame should be put on Ray Rice...they gave him the ball and he couldn't do much with it
[/quote]

Dude, you just got here. We've all concluded that Flacco is awesome, and our problem is Cam. Sometimes he just defies logic, and there's no way that everyone is wrong. TJ was sitting on the sideline. The best look that Flacco got for basically an entire half of football (fourth quarter plus OT) was 2 wide with a tight end. The Patriots played zone, we continued to run and refused to spread it out. One more receiver would have made the difference.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1287376563' post='511877']<br />Really? You're going to blame Rice for earning every yard he got today? Please...<br />[/quote]

Yeah, Ray did a solid job considering how our line played today.
And I think NE did an AMAZING job sealing the edges, all game long. They made damn sure Rice wasn't going to repeat his playoff performance today.
Not making excuses for Rizzle, but I'm not sure any RB could have done much against that front seven today.

[Ravensdiciple96]

[quote name='Kwothdaraven' timestamp='1287375483' post='511857']
Looks like a statline a tom brady or peyton manning would put up doesent it? But no thats joe flacco on the road in possibly the hardest field to play on with tom brady under center. Brady has 2 of the top 5 longest winning streaks at home in nfl history.

Sometimes i cant beleive ravens fans. Joe flacco outperformed hall of famer tom brady today abd somehow hes still garbage to some "fans". Im not sure what more you can ask for. Being on the road in the toughest stadium and a few dumb calls/penalties cost us that game, NOT joe flacco. Flacco was a stud, ebd of story. Cabt wait to see him continue his dominance since the cinci game.

How about we talk about how joe flacco has completely wiped away his 4int performance and has since been one if the best qbs in the nfl. You would think a career worst performance would atleast rattle him a little, but no, he completely flipped the script. Beast.
[/quote]

Hey chief you are absolutely right, Joe did play better than Tom STATISTICALLY. So what do those stats really mean when he came home with a LOSS???? Have you actually watched the games? I will assume NO, beacuse any one who has been actually watching the games knows that it's not about Joe. If you ask me and I am sure alot more, it's the play calling from Cam. Joe does what he is told, and he does a great job at it. But when he is being told to do ridiculous stuff it will reflect on him. You know the QB is the first to get the blame, is that right? In most cases I would say no, but the QB is "suppose" to be the leader, but he can only do what he is told. And in my eyes this loss has to fall on CAM! Joe did do great when the right play came in. (IMO) This game has nothing to do with Joe.