Merged: Why Flacco Is Our Franchise Qb

[bmorefan444]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1287349893' post='510809']
The D was great today. I have to look at tape. Either Flacco just decided to not play in the 4th or the WR's weren't getting open. Someones obviously at fault.....

I'm not blaming Flacco yet. I'll have to watch the gametape....
[/quote]

I thought the playcalling got a little too conservative. Cam wanted to run it but the pass was working.

[Jamal]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287351892' post='510950']
there would have been no over time in the first place had the defense done their jobs.
Flacco put us in position to win by giving us a 10 point lead. The defense screwed that up.
[/quote]
We only scored 20 points. We have the type of offense that should be able to put up 24-27 points against anyone.

20 points and playing defense will rarely get you wins against great offenses. Especially with all the rules that help out the O.

[True]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287351892' post='510950']
there would have been no over time in the first place had the defense done their jobs.
Flacco put us in position to win by giving us a 10 point lead. The defense screwed that up.
[/quote]
I don't want to blame Flacco for this loss, but if you're pinning this on the defense I am going to disagree. Games are not won in the 3rd quarter. The Ravens were up 20-10 in the first few seconds to start the 4th quarter; I guess they should have closed the game and given the Ravens the W? No.

The defense gave up a TD with 11 minutes to go. So are only they responsible for keeping the #1 offense in check while our own offense says "sorry guys, we did our part in the third quarter its now on you to win a close game in the 4th" That's just biased thinking.

The ball was given to Joe many times in both the 4th quarter and OT. Whether it was the play calling or his own decisions, the offense did not make any effort to win the game and decided to play conservatively with check downs. Blame Flacco, blame Cam Cameron, blame Harbaugh, but to lay it simply on the defense is just a copout for criticism.

[steeler hater]

The difference was that Belichek & co said to Brady "go ahead and win the game for us", while Harbaugh and Cam said "we're not going to let you lose it for us" to Joe. Who should be po'd, btw.

[flynismo]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1287352893' post='511013']<br />I don't want to blame Flacco for this loss, but if you're pinning this on the defense I am going to disagree. Games are not won in the 3rd quarter. The Ravens were up 20-10 in the first few seconds to start the 4th quarter; I guess they should have closed the game and given the Ravens the W? No.<br /><br />The defense gave up a TD with 11 minutes to go. So are only they responsible for keeping the #1 offense in check while our own offense says &quot;sorry guys, we did our part in the third quarter its now on you to win a close game in the 4th&quot; That's just biased thinking.<br /><br />The ball was given to Joe many times in both the 4th quarter and OT. Whether it was the play calling or his own decisions, the offense did not make any effort to win the game and decided to play conservatively with check downs. Blame Flacco, blame Cam Cameron, blame Harbaugh, but to lay it simply on the defense is just a copout for criticism.<br />[/quote]


I see, so the offense has to continually pick up the defense's slack? Look at Flacco's stat line. How much better could he POSSIBLY have played. COmpleting 77% of his passes for 285 yards, 2 TDs and ZERO turnovers, but people want to blame Flacco? Get the ****** outta here. Where was our run game when we need to move the ball? You people should be directing your frustration at the people who didnt earn their paycheck today, not Flacco.

[Jamal]

Flacco doesn't deserve the blame. The whole offense as a whole deserves the blame.

The defense played exceptional IMO.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287353506' post='511056']
I see, so the offense has to continually pick up the defense's slack? Look at Flacco's stat line. How much better could he POSSIBLY have played. COmpleting 77% of his passes for 285 yards, 2 TDs and ZERO turnovers, but people want to blame Flacco? Get the ****** outta here. Where was our run game when we need to move the ball? You people should be directing your frustration at the people who didnt earn their paycheck today, not Flacco.
[/quote]
I dont think anyone is pissed at Flacco today, we're pissed at the Oline not being able to move the Pats front 4, pissed at Cam Cameron for the worst playcalling of all time in the 4th quarter and ESPECIALLY overtime. Overtime we had what 3 drives and converted 1 first down? Go win the F'in game Cam, get the ball to Boldin hell this is why we got him, run his butt over the middle get him the ball early and watch him run through sissy arm tackles.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1287353630' post='511064']
Flacco doesn't deserve the blame. The whole offense as a whole deserves the blame.

[b]The defense played exceptional IMO.[/b]
[/quote]

I don't think they did. The certainly made plays but allowed Woodhead and Green-Ellis to pick up some big gains on the ground.

The LBs got rag-dolled at times.

[purple_pride]

you guys really cant blame him for this one. blame the HC or OC. but not him. shoot u can even blame the DC.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='purple_pride' timestamp='1287354169' post='511096']
you guys really cant blame him for this one. blame the HC or OC. but not him. shoot u can even blame the DC.
[/quote]

It was a team loss all the way around. Both coordinators played extremely conservative and key penalties hurt the team.

[True]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287353506' post='511056']
I see, so the offense has to continually pick up the defense's slack? Look at Flacco's stat line. How much better could he POSSIBLY have played. COmpleting 77% of his passes for 285 yards, 2 TDs and ZERO turnovers, but people want to blame Flacco? Get the ****** outta here. Where was our run game when we need to move the ball? You people should be directing your frustration at the people who didnt earn their paycheck today, not Flacco.
[/quote]
"Stats are for loser. The final score is for winners."

You know who said that? Bill Belichick. I think he knows something about winning, especially super bowls.

I don't care if Flacco threw for 400 yds, 3 TDS, and had a perfect passer rating. If it comes up with a "L" it doesn't matter except if you care about fantasy. When given the opportunity to help increase the lead, or win in the game in OT, he didn't show up and that is what matters. Do I personally blame Flacco for the loss? Not entirely. The running game, the conservative calling, the coaching mistakes, are all part of reasons why we lost. But again, to shield Flacco from ALL blame is unfair and biased.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1287354588' post='511119']
"Stats are for loser. The final score is for winners."

You know who said that? Bill Belichick. I think he knows something about winning, especially super bowls.

I don't care if Flacco threw for 400 yds, 3 TDS, and had a perfect passer rating. If it comes up with a "L" it doesn't matter except if you care about fantasy. When given the opportunity to help increase the lead, or win in the game in OT, [b]he didn't show up[/b] and that is what matters. Do I personally blame Flacco for the loss? Not entirely. The running game, the conservative calling, the coaching mistakes, are all part of reasons why we lost. But again, to shield Flacco from ALL blame is unfair and biased.
[/quote]

While I think he should have pulled the trigger on some throws down-field in the 4th quarter and OT, I think he would have done so had the WRs been more open.

[True]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1287354829' post='511130']
While I think he should have pulled the trigger on some throws down-field in the 4th quarter and OT, I think he would have done so had the WRs been more open.
[/quote]
I think that's part of Cam's play calling as well. I kept seeing Boldin and Mason doing 5 yard slants or posts. Why there scared to go deep when they were man handling the Pats secondary I'm not sure I understand.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1287354588' post='511119']
"Stats are for loser. The final score is for winners."

You know who said that? Bill Belichick. I think he knows something about winning, especially super bowls.

I don't care if Flacco threw for 400 yds, 3 TDS, and had a perfect passer rating. If it comes up with a "L" it doesn't matter except if you care about fantasy. When given the opportunity to help increase the lead, or win in the game in OT, he didn't show up and that is what matters. Do I personally blame Flacco for the loss? Not entirely. The running game, the conservative calling, the coaching mistakes, are all part of reasons why we lost. But again, to shield Flacco from ALL blame is unfair and biased.
[/quote]

I won't shield Flacco from ALL criticism, although I thought that he played well. All I know is, we had Houshmandzadeh on the sidelines, we stuck with a run game that wasn't really working for us, and I didn't see us utilizing our personnel the way I expected. After the 3rd quarter, our offense looked ugly. We got the ball 4 times with the chance to win it, and I'm starting to think that the less dependent Flacco is on Cam, the better he'll perform.

[Moderator 2]

playoffs 4/10 34 yards 1int= won the game

week 6 27/35 285 yards 2 td's 0 int= lost the game

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1287354995' post='511136']
I think that's part of Cam's play calling as well. I kept seeing Boldin and Mason doing 5 yard slants or posts. Why there scared to go deep when they were man handling the Pats secondary I'm not sure I understand.
[/quote]

Yeah, Peter Medhurst has said a few times on the radio that at one point, he saw Q running a 5-yard route with Rice running a 3-yard route underneath.

The conservatism was truly baffling.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Moderator 2' timestamp='1287355247' post='511147']
playoffs 4/10 34 yards 1int= won the game

week 6 27/35 285 yards 2 td's 0 int= lost the game
[/quote]

Football is a crazy game.

[bmorefan444]

[quote name='Moderator 2' timestamp='1287355247' post='511147']
playoffs 4/10 34 yards 1int= won the game

week 6 27/35 285 yards 2 td's 0 int= lost the game
[/quote]

Wow. Forgot about Flacco's 4 completions last year. This stat kinda makes you say "huh?"

[ravenanchors]

You can place this loss squarely on Cam. The play calling was terrible.
Joe played a great game. He ran the plays that Cam called.
The ravens have players capable of making plays, Cam is not using them.

You can't really blame the defense for the loss because Cam's play calling stuck the defense on the field most of the 4th quarter and overtime.
The players were exhasted.

[flynismo]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1287354588' post='511119']<br />&quot;Stats are for loser. The final score is for winners.&quot; <br /><br />You know who said that? Bill Belichick. I think he knows something about winning, especially super bowls. <br /><br />I don't care if Flacco threw for 400 yds, 3 TDS, and had a perfect passer rating. If it comes up with a &quot;L&quot; it doesn't matter except if you care about fantasy. When given the opportunity to help increase the lead, or win in the game in OT, he didn't show up and that is what matters. Do I personally blame Flacco for the loss? Not entirely. The running game, the conservative calling, the coaching mistakes, are all part of reasons why we lost. But again, to shield Flacco from ALL blame is unfair and biased.<br />[/quote]

And if he had thrown for 400 yards, 3 TD and had a perfect QB rating he'd probably still be criticised for our loss for not getting one more drive to win the game, which is basically what this is amounting to, because he's not "clutch enough" or for whatever other reason people can come up with. I used stats to point out the fact that he played very well today. If people want someone to criticize, criticize the running game, the play calling and the defense, not Flacco.

[Ravenslifer]

I just go back to the old saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Our pass offense was on fire in the first half, then we got the lead and instead of trying to stretch it, we tried to get conservative and run the ball, which we didn't have much success at. Why, because the Patriots gameplanned for it. They saw Rice's breakout game last week and decided to take him out of today's game, which they did. The passing game was shredding the Patriots weak secondary in the first half, and then was asked to just play safe in the second half. Flacco played great today, and if he had been allowed to continue to play, we would have won. One more TD or field goal and we wouldn't have even been in overtime.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='quay' timestamp='1287357824' post='511266']

[/quote]


LOL. Too funny.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='quay' timestamp='1287357824' post='511266']

[/quote]

Great analysis troll.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='quay' timestamp='1287357824' post='511266']

[/quote]

Remember, Flacco isn't allowed to audible >.>

[Mick0311]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287353506' post='511056']
I see, so the offense has to continually pick up the defense's slack? Look at Flacco's stat line. How much better could he POSSIBLY have played. COmpleting 77% of his passes for 285 yards, 2 TDs and ZERO turnovers, but people want to blame Flacco? Get the ****** outta here. Where was our run game when we need to move the ball? You people should be directing your frustration at the people who didnt earn their paycheck today, not Flacco.
[/quote]


How much of that was in the first two and a half quarters? The problem is that defenses giving up points late in the game is always possible, they get tired. But to stop executing and calling plays that work when there is a quarter and a half to go was what did us in. Of course the defense should hold strong, but the offense has to continue to eat clock and get points. It sucks that the defense gave one up late, but I have to put this one more on the offense. Not just the players, but the whole offense.

[ravenanchors]

There was absolutely no reason for the Ravens to lose the game today.
Flacco was dominant. He had completed close to 17 passes with only 20 attempts.
But this happened in the Denver game as well.
In both games suddenly Flacco couldn't complete passes. The reason is the defense adjusted to Cams play calling and Cam did not. Its as if he is incapable of changing strategy during the game.

[True]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1287357457' post='511253']
And if he had thrown for 400 yards, 3 TD and had a perfect QB rating he'd probably still be criticised for our loss for not getting one more drive to win the game, which is basically what this is amounting to, because he's not "clutch enough" or for whatever other reason people can come up with. I used stats to point out the fact that he played very well today. If people want someone to criticize, criticize the running game, the play calling and the defense, not Flacco.
[/quote]
"Clutch enough" is a very important trademark for a QB. For you to dismiss that as not a credible trait for a QB to have..then I'm not sure what you expect out of a QB. Why is Ben Rothlisberger heralded as one of the top 10 best quarterbacks these past few seasons? Because he is clutch. He makes the throws at the end of the games to win them, super bowls included. He doesn't have amazing stats but he's won championships. If you're satisfied with Flacco having great game stats, but not being "clutch" then play fantasy football. Being clutch wins the games that matter.

Flacco played a great game. No one is denying that. But when it mattered the most--Crunch time--he (as well as the bad play calling) did not show up. He is in part to blame for the loss. You continually shield him away and allow for no one to criticize him, but are fine with saying it was the defenses fault we lost the game. I'm trying to be objectionable here, but it just seems you're being an angry Joe Flacco fan who's mad that people are making points about how Flacco--IN PART--cost us the game. If you're a fan of a player I'm fine with that. But I'm a fan of the Ravens and will criticize everyone on the team if I find them in fault.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='quay' timestamp='1287357824' post='511266']

[/quote]
good talk "quay"

[Clutch Ravens]

I'll defend Flacco to the hilt.

When we were throwing we were winning, so, as he always does, Cam decided to move away from what was working. When your opposition has a secondary as weak as the Patriots you attack it, repeatedly. When we did Flacco put up impressive numbers and we got a pretty good lead. The passing game was WORKING. I don't care if you're trying to run the clock, when something is working you STICK with it, particularly when the other aspect of your offense is producing mediocre/poor results.

Hypothetically, had we stuck to throwing the ball we would have won. The Patriots couldn't stop it so Cam did them a favour and shut it down himself.

Joe played well and deserves very little, if any, of the blame. Cam Cameron, however, should shoulder a whole lot of it.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Joe had a good game, he was sensible and accurate with the football. He did pretty much all in his power to win this game.

In saying that, I wish he would use his feet more when defences employ heavy coverages. Standing anchored in the pocket with a three man pass rush only plays in the defences hands - break contain, and receivers will uncover/first down scrambles can be made.