Upcoming Opponents

[Polamaluisabeast_43]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1287518466' post='514045']
Flacco isn't 0-4 in those games, the Ravens are.

Look at last season when Joe played a pretty good game in Pittsburgh and arguably outplayed Roethlisberger. Foxworth returned interception for a TD but it was called back because of a block in the back by Suggs. McGahee had a TD run called because of holding by Kelley Washington and Mason dropped a touchdown pass with no one within 5 yards of him in the end-zone.

All three of those plays contributed to the loss and yet had little to do with Joe so to affix a record beside a QB's name makes little sense.
[/quote]
Those plays there are all what if plays. If you want to play that game I can just as easily sit here and say had Jeff Reed made both of his FGS after the Ravens 2 turnovers in their own territory the Steelers would have beat the Ravens two weeks ago in Pittsburgh. Or had Charlie Batch been able to get one first down throwing the ball on his own goaline instead of running the ball 3 straight times and punting the Steelers would have won as well. There were also a lot of questionable calls as well in the game 2 weeks ago as well which I wont get in to much like you pointed out happened in the game last year. My point is I still dont think it's a coincidence that both times Flacco has beaten the Steelers in his career last year and 2 weeks ago that he beat Dennis Dixon and Charlie Batch and not Ben Roethlisberger. Flacco has yet to outplay Ben every single time they have went head to head so far the last 3 years and that has been the main reason I believe why the Steelers have won those games and the Ravens have lost...

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Polamaluisabeast_43' timestamp='1287518913' post='514054']
Those plays there are all what if plays. If you want to play that game I can just as easily sit here and say had Jeff Reed made both of his FGS after the Ravens 2 turnovers in their own territory the Steelers would have beat the Ravens two weeks ago in Pittsburgh. Or had Charlie Batch been able to get one first down throwing the ball on his own goaline instead of running the ball 3 straight times and punting the Steelers would have won as well. There were also a lot of questionable calls as well in the game 2 weeks ago as well which I wont get in to much like you pointed out happened in the game last year. My point is I still dont think it's a coincidence that both times Flacco has beaten the Steelers in his career last year and 2 weeks ago that he beat Dennis Dixon and Charlie Batch and not Ben Roethlisberger.
[/quote]

I simply brought those plays up to prove numerous plays happen in a game that are out of QB's control which, to me, makes talking about QB win/loss records a waste of time. I wasn't saying had certain things happened the Ravens would have won.

The fact that Joe hasn't been on the winning side of a Ravens-Steelers game where the Steelers were quarterbacked by Ben can be attributed to his inexperience, the Steelers D being one of the best in the NFL and the fact that Roethlisberger has consistently found a way to make big plays against the Ravens' D(something Joe has no control over).

[Bltravens]

I dont know if its necessarily Joe cant beat Roethlisberger. Joe isnt patrolling the secondary or anything.

[Polamaluisabeast_43]

It's quite simple Ben finds a way to make big plays when it matters most in the 4th quarter and when the game is on the line and Flacco doesnt...The Ravens in 2010 are going to only go as far as Joe Flacco takes them in my opinion. He is going to need to step up and start becoming an ex-factor in playoff games where he goes up against Ben,Manning or Brady if the Ravens want to get to where they want to go. The Ravens can have all the big play wide receivers all they want like Boldin,TJ,Mason,and Heap but if Flacco doesnt up his game and carry this Ravens team in the playoffs against teams like the Pats,Steelers,Jets,Colts etc...The Ravens will once again be on the outside looking in...

[berad]

[quote name='Polamaluisabeast_43' timestamp='1287519605' post='514064']
It's quite simple Ben finds a way to make big plays when it matters most in the 4th quarter and when the game is on the line and Flacco doesnt...The Ravens in 2010 are going to only go as far as Joe Flacco takes them in my opinion. He is going to need to step up and start becoming an ex-factor in playoff games where he goes up against Ben,Manning or Brady if the Ravens want to get to where they want to go. The Ravens can have all the big play wide receivers all they want like Boldin,TJ,Mason,and Heap but if Flacco doesnt up his game and carry this Ravens team in the playoffs against teams like the [b]Pats,Steelers,Jets,Colts etc[/b]...The Ravens will once again be on the outside looking in...
[/quote]

He's beaten two of those teams already, on the road, and came within inches of beating a third. But, again, as ER20 said, those are [b]TEAM wins/losses[/b]. Joe is a good QB and, despite what you say, can come through in the clutch. Look at a couple of the games this year, against Cleveland and Pittsburgh...

Anyways, you win a Super Bowl with a great team, not just a QB. We won with Trent Dilfer for crying out loud!

Jeez, that was a poorly crafted response. I'm exhausted. Defending this team after a 3-point OT loss to an excellent team, coming off their bye, on the road - wow, it was a lot easier when expectations weren't sky high.

[Vademor]

Ravens: 27 Bills: 6

[Polamaluisabeast_43]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1287520212' post='514072']
He's beaten two of those teams already, on the road, and came within inches of beating a third. But, again, as ER20 said, those are [b]TEAM wins/losses[/b]. Joe is a good QB and, despite what you say, can come through in the clutch. Look at a couple of the games this year, against Cleveland and Pittsburgh...

Anyways, you win a Super Bowl with a great team, not just a QB. We won with Trent Dilfer for crying out loud!

Jeez, that was a poorly crafted response. I'm exhausted. Defending this team after a 3-point OT loss to an excellent team, coming off their bye, on the road - wow, it was a lot easier when expectations weren't sky high.
[/quote]
Flacco did beat the Jets on the road this year but he was not the main reason why the Ravens won that game the Ravens defense shutting down Sanchez and the Jets was. And yes you did win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer in 2000 10 years ago but if you go back over the course of the last 18 years since 1992 and look at all the teams that have won the Super Bowl and their QB's they are all franchise QB'S or hall of fames QBS here is the list.


1992 Troy Aikman Dallas
1993 Troy Aikman Dallas
1994 Steve Young 49ers
1995 Troy Aikman Dallas
1996 Brett Favre Green Bay
1997 John Elway Denver
1998 John Elway Denver
1999 Kurt Warner Rams
2000 Trent Dilfer Ravens
2001 Tom Brady New England
2002 Brad Johnson Tampa Bay
2003 Tom Brady New England
2004 Tom Brady New England
2005 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers
2006 Peyton Manning Indianapolis
2007 Eli Manning Giants
2008 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers
2009 Drew Brees New Orleans

If you look at that list every single QB with the exception of Dilfer and Brad Johnson are either hall of fame QB's or future hall of fame QB's or currently franchise QB's with their team now. The Ravens and Tampa's defense more then anything was exceptional and a main reason why the Ravens won in 2000 and the Bucs won in 2002. My point that list there and the facts dont lie. If you are going to win a Super Bowl or have aspirations to win a Super Bowl you better have an elite franchise QB to carry your team. Would you include Joe Flacco in that list and compare him to all of those guys above that I just mentioned?? I know Im not ready too not yet anyway...

[Jamal]

[quote name='Polamaluisabeast_43' timestamp='1287521950' post='514107']
Flacco did beat the Jets on the road this year but he was not the main reason why the Ravens won that game the Ravens defense shutting down Sanchez and the Jets was. And yes you did win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer in 2000 10 years ago but if you go back over the course of the last 18 years since 1992 and look at all the teams that have won the Super Bowl and their QB's they are all franchise QB'S or hall of fames QBS here is the list.


1992 Troy Aikman Dallas
1993 Troy Aikman Dallas
1994 Steve Young 49ers
1995 Troy Aikman Dallas
1996 Brett Favre Green Bay
1997 John Elway Denver
1998 John Elway Denver
1999 Kurt Warner Rams
2000 Trent Dilfer Ravens
2001 Tom Brady New England
2002 Brad Johnson Tampa Bay
2003 Tom Brady New England
2004 Tom Brady New England
2005 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers
2006 Peyton Manning Indianapolis
2007 Eli Manning Giants
2008 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers
2009 Drew Brees New Orleans

If you look at that list every single QB with the exception of Dilfer and Brad Johnson are either hall of fame QB's or future hall of fame QB's or currently franchise QB's with their team now. The Ravens and Tampa's defense more then anything was exceptional and a main reason why the Ravens won in 2000 and the Bucs won in 2002. My point that list there and the facts dont lie. If you are going to win a Super Bowl or have aspirations to win a Super Bowl you better have an elite franchise QB to carry your team. Would you include Joe Flacco in that list and compare him to all of those guys above that I just mentioned?? I know Im not ready too not yet anyway...
[/quote]
Well I'd say Flacco is just as good as Ben was in 2005, and we have just as good a defense Pitt had that year.

[Polamaluisabeast_43]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1287522360' post='514118']
Well I'd say Flacco is just as good as Ben was in 2005, and we have just as good a defense Pitt had that year.
[/quote]
Id put Flacco in the same category as Eli Manning right now if I had to compare him or say he was as good as anyone of those guys. Manning is a lot like Flacco in some weeks he is really good and consistent. And other weeks he is not and looks like a deer in headlights. Ben Roethlisberger overall is still a much better QB then Eli Manning and I still dont think Flacco is as good as Ben was in 2005. He still has a lot to prove...

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Polamaluisabeast_43' timestamp='1287517370' post='514013']
Not to stir up trouble as well and not to make any excuses for the loss 2 weeks ago in Pittsburgh but I still want to see this Ravens team and Joe Flacco beat the Steelers and specifically beat the Steelers when Ben Roethlisberger is the starting QB. I want to see Flacco go toe to toe with Ben and out play him and out perform him at crunch time when it matters the most. Flacco has yet to do that when he has played the Steelers when Ben has started he is 0-4.

That is ultimately right now what makes the Steelers still the better team then the Ravens I believe. I do believe the Steelers defense as a whole is still better even when Ed Reed is healthy, and I think Ben being better then Flacco as well especially in crunch time is the ex-factor on what makes the Steelers a little bit better team then the Ravens. Ill say it again I wanna see Ravens and especially Joe Flacco beat the Steelers with Ben Roethlisberger as the starting QB. Because the facts and numbers dont lie when Ben starts and plays against the Ravens the Steelers for whatever reason or no matter how ugly it ends up being find a way to win and the Ravens dont...
[/quote]

You do realize that since 2004, the game that Ben came in for Maddox, Ben has only played 2 games in Baltimore where he is 1-1. All those other games of which you speak took place at Heinz Field. Just saying.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Polamaluisabeast_43' timestamp='1287521950' post='514107']
If you look at that list every single QB with the exception of Dilfer and Brad Johnson are either hall of fame QB's or future hall of fame QB's or currently franchise QB's with their team now. The Ravens and Tampa's defense more then anything was exceptional and a main reason why the Ravens won in 2000 and the Bucs won in 2002. My point that list there and the facts dont lie. If you are going to win a Super Bowl or have aspirations to win a Super Bowl you better have an elite franchise QB to carry your team. [b]Would you include Joe Flacco in that list and compare him to all of those guys above that I just mentioned?? I know Im not ready too not yet anyway...[/b]
[/quote]

Obviously not and I think most Ravens would agree he's not on the level of those players, when their teams won Super Bowls.

[IMissMattStover]

I think its hilarious when people say Quarterback X is Y-Z against Quarterback A. Um, the quarterbacks dont play defense. In that sense, the quarterbacks never face each other, and therefore, neither one has ever "beaten" another.

[Vademor]

[quote name='IMissMattStover' timestamp='1287527135' post='514217']
I think its hilarious when people say Quarterback X is Y-Z against Quarterback A. Um, the quarterbacks dont play defense. In that sense, the quarterbacks never face each other, and therefore, neither one has ever "beaten" another.
[/quote]


Yeah that doesn't make sense to me either...

[Vademor]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1287524136' post='514148']
Obviously not and I think most Ravens would agree he's not on the level of those players, when their teams won Super Bowls.
[/quote]


You can't call Flacco elite until he wins a SB. I think he has enough skill to win a SB with the team we have, he just needs to execute better.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Vademor' timestamp='1287595385' post='514894']
You can't call Flacco elite until he wins a SB. I think he has enough skill to win a SB with the team we have, he just needs to execute better.
[/quote]

I agree with your final point but not the first. Marino and Kelly were elite QBs but never won Super Bowls. Elway was considered an elite QB prior to winning one too.

Today, people consider Rodgers and Rivers elite QBs and yet neither of them have won a Super Bowl.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1287596040' post='514902']
I agree with your final point but not the first. Marino and Kelly were elite QBs but never won Super Bowls. Elway was considered an elite QB prior to winning one too.

Today, people consider Rodgers and Rivers elite QBs and yet neither of them have won a Super Bowl.
[/quote]
You could add pre-SB Peyton Manning and 2008 Drew Brees to that list as well.

Also, winning a SB is not going to autmatically make people perceive Flacco as being elite. He'll just be considered Trent Dilfer 2.0 (he already is to some degree).

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1287604025' post='515029']
You could add pre-SB Peyton Manning and 2008 Drew Brees to that list as well.

Also, winning a SB is not going to autmatically make people perceive Flacco as being elite. He'll just be considered Trent Dilfer 2.0 (he already is to some degree).
[/quote]

Exactly. Eli has won a Super Bowl I don't think even the most die-hard Giants fans would call him elite.

[Nobi]

[quote name='Vademor' timestamp='1287159022' post='508032']
I don't think the Ravens will lose this weekend. My prediction is 23 - 20 B-More. As for the biggest threat in the AFC, I would have to say either Pittsburgh or New York.
[/quote]


you were sooo close to being right... kinda freaky you should look into becoming a bookee.

[Vademor]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1287604025' post='515029']
You could add pre-SB Peyton Manning and 2008 Drew Brees to that list as well.

Also, winning a SB is not going to autmatically make people perceive Flacco as being elite. He'll just be considered Trent Dilfer 2.0 (he already is to some degree).
[/quote]


I think Flacco is better than Trent Dilfer.

[Vademor]

[quote name='Nobi' timestamp='1287606330' post='515076']
you were sooo close to being right... kinda freaky you should look into becoming a bookee.
[/quote]


Wow I was almost right! I forgot about my prediction because I was so disgusted with the loss...

[Vademor]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1287604187' post='515034']
Exactly. Eli has won a Super Bowl I don't think even the most die-hard Giants fans would call him elite.
[/quote]


You guys are right. I take back what I said about having to win a sb to be elite. I think what I meant was, if Flacco became elite the Ravens would probably win the superbowl...

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Vademor' timestamp='1287672467' post='515624']
I think Flacco is better than Trent Dilfer.
[/quote]
The impression that I get from most people is that they think Flacco just rides the Ravens defense and formerly strong run game, just like Dilfer. A Superbowl win in and of itself would not change that.

[Jamal]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1287688316' post='515801']
The impression that I get from most people is that they think Flacco just rides the Ravens defense and formerly strong run game, just like Dilfer. A Superbowl win in and of itself would not change that.
[/quote]
Well people that actually watch football instead of looking at stats would know the difference. We've had a great defense and a good running game for over a decade. We are now one of the better teams in football with a far less scary defense, and Rice is really good, but I'm not sure hes on the level with Jamal when he was in his prime yet.

If we make it to the Superbowl, no "expert" will say that Flacco is the worst QB to make it to the big game.

Dilfer was a tough guy, and is my favorite ESPN analyst, but he wouldn't be a starter in todays NFL.

[berad]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1287707742' post='516095']
[b]Well people that actually watch football instead of looking at stats would know the difference.[/b] We've had a great defense and a good running game for over a decade. We are now one of the better teams in football with a far less scary defense, and Rice is really good, but I'm not sure hes on the level with Jamal when he was in his prime yet.

If we make it to the Superbowl, no "expert" will say that Flacco is the worst QB to make it to the big game.

Dilfer was a tough guy, and is my favorite ESPN analyst, but he wouldn't be a starter in todays NFL.
[/quote]

Heck, even people who look solely at the statistics can see the difference! I'm with you on that post, totally agree.