The Crying Thread

[AwakenTheDemon]

No problem, couldn't have said it better myself.

[purple.n.black]

Here it is:
Josh Wilson.
He only gave up one play I know. But it was a HUGE one. Second game in a row he did so. IDK what is with Fabian, but before he had that bad game he was playing great. I don't know if he can rebound or not. I have given everyone in the secondary time before I was critical. I backed Fabian after his first bad game, and Josh after last week. But this is unacceptable. Earlier in the season Washington was playing far better than Wilson is now. IDK what can be done, but both players can be playing better. Carr has not been great, but he has been very good and consistent mostly against not great WRs. I think him and Webb need to start and consistently play throughout the game. I know if either Wilson or WAshington have a GREAT week in practice they can reclaim the job. But till then I think it should be Carr and Webb. Webb will have trouble early, but I have confidence in our offense to relieve some pressure off of Webb. Then late in the season Webb will be ready to play REAL football. Where Webb does have trouble is against vet great route runners, and in situations where we face them and in obvious pass situations we can put one of our other two guys on the field. Preferably not to switch coverage, as that never helps, but to HELP Webb or Carr in coverage. Now this is not a foolproof plan. But it should help. We know our secondary can play better. We saw it before that Denver game. But I think this could help us and give us two reliable starters come January.

[purple.n.black]

I have changed my position on who is the secondary many times this season. But that just is the problem, outside Carr there is no consistency. So if you're not going to stick with a guy till he gets good, then switch it up till it works.

[berad]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1290388301' post='547367']
I have changed my position on who is the secondary many times this season. [b]But that just is the problem, outside Carr there is no consistency.[/b] So if you're not going to stick with a guy till he gets good, then switch it up till it works.
[/quote]

Exactly. Every corner not named "Chris Carr" has been victimized, at times, this season. I would rate them, at this point..

1. Carr
2. Webb
3. Wilson
4. Washington

*Williams and Miller are unknowns because they have hardly seen the field on defense. Honestly, I don't even know if Miller is on the roster anymore.

In any case, these guys are a heck of a lot better than Walker and/or Ivy. A HECK of a lot better.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1290388669' post='547381']
Exactly. Every corner not named "Chris Carr" has been victimized, at times, this season. I would rate them, at this point..

1. Carr
2. Webb
3. Wilson
4. Washington

*Williams and Miller are unknowns because they have hardly seen the field on defense. Honestly, I don't even know if Miller is on the roster anymore.

In any case, these guys are a heck of a lot better than Walker and/or Ivy. A HECK of a lot better.
[/quote]
It is true. And it is sad. I stood up for those #3 and #4 guys through tough times. But this half of the season they have both shown to be consistently poor instead of consistently good. Webb will not be real good right away, but the improvement he shows week to week, him starting every week will put him even further towards that next level.

[Ed_Reed20]

I didn't watch the majority of the second half so I can't comment too much about Mike Preston's analysis but I was wondering what people thought about some of the things he had to say, specifically about the defense, in the article below and his positional grades.

[url="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-preston-ravens-panthers-1122-20101121,0,3038666.column"]Article[/url]

[url="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-panthers-report-card-11220101121,0,2003916.story"]Grades[/url]

[codizzle]

Grades are a joke... How do you give special teams a B? What more could u ask for? Yes the coverage could have been better but cundiff and koch were lights out

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1290389730' post='547398']<br />I didn't watch the majority of the second half so I can't comment too much about Mike Preston's analysis but I was wondering what people thought about some of the things he had to say, specifically about the defense, in the article below and his positional grades.<br /><br /><a href='http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-preston-ravens-panthers-1122-20101121,0,3038666.column' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Article</a><br /><br /><a href='http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-panthers-report-card-11220101121,0,2003916.story' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Grades</a><br />[/quote]


well...i agree with a few things. Cody was absolutely horrible today. Any doubt I had that surfaced after a good showing in the atlanta game were erased...Cody has a long, long way to go. The more I see him play, the more convinced I become that he's going to be a bust.
I also agree with his opinion that Wilson isn't the answer. He looked like Cris Carr from early last year out there for the second week in a row.
He pointed out the obvious when mentioning our red zone inefficiency and how poor our defensive line was.

Other than that, I think it was typical drivel from him, especially in his remarks about Flacco.

[purple.n.black]

I have not played football at a high level in my life so I am not sure the logic that goes into some of these plays or techniques. But I know that when Landry does blitz he waits first. Now I understand some logic that goes into that. He wants to make sure it is not a running play before he goes after the QB and maybe sometimes just keep an eye on the TE. But sometimes, and certainly more than other safeties around the league, he waits way too long. So by the time he actually starts moving towards the QB the tackle has already helped form the pocket with his feet set and he is ready for Landry. And Landry seems to not use much if any will or strength in collapsing the pocket. It bothers me. Outside of this he has been really good. I am not sure if he is just not capable, or not willing to, but if we continue to use him like this he better do his job right.
IDK maybe his job is to basically stay free while eating up a block to help the line, but either way the way it [i]looks[/i] as a spectator bothers me.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1290390911' post='547417']
Grades are a joke... How do you give special teams a B? What more could u ask for? Yes the coverage could have been better but cundiff and koch were lights out
[/quote]
The coverage caused the Panthers to have great field position on that one play. I think had it not been for that we would have gotten at the least an A-

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1290391064' post='547420']
well...i agree with a few things. Cody was absolutely horrible today. Any doubt I had that surfaced after a good showing in the atlanta game were erased...Cody has a long, long way to go. The more I see him play, the more convinced I become that he's going to be a bust.
I also agree with his opinion that Wilson isn't the answer. He looked like Cris Carr from early last year out there for the second week in a row.
He pointed out the obvious when mentioning our red zone inefficiency and how poor our defensive line was.

Other than that, I think it was typical drivel from him, especially in his remarks about Flacco.
[/quote]
Cody got chopped on both of Goodson's long runs today and nobody was able to fill the void, Redding allowed himself to get washed too far on the 45 yarder and because Cody was chopped right off the snap there was no one to contain backside to help the LBs, so a G stuck on Ray and Goodson was off the races. I cant blame a 350 pound NT who just had surgery getting chop blocked by the C for the 2 long runs.

Edit- Prestons grades are a bit extreme, the Oline and Dline were average. I thought the LBs were a B, Suggs breaking up passes, a sack, had like 7 tackles off the edge. JJ actually provided some pressure for once, and Ray had 11 tackles and a pick 6. I thought Suggs was an A today, Ray a B, and JJ and McClain a C.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1290391064' post='547420']
well...i agree with a few things. [b]Cody was absolutely horrible today. Any doubt I had that surfaced after a good showing in the atlanta game were erased...Cody has a long, long way to go. The more I see him play, the more convinced I become that he's going to be a bust.[/b]
I also agree with his opinion that Wilson isn't the answer. He looked like Cris Carr from early last year out there for the second week in a row.
He pointed out the obvious when mentioning our red zone inefficiency and how poor our defensive line was.

Other than that, I think it was typical drivel from him, especially in his remarks about Flacco.
[/quote]

I know you've never liked the pick but inconsistency is to be expected with a rookie. I will ask though, if after only four games where he got a solid amount of snaps, you think he'll be a bust(even though he played very well in one of them), how do you feel about Kruger?

[Rinbee]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1290377512' post='547118']
The same can be said about a number of teams as the difference between all NFL games is just a few plays. The Ravens [i]could[/i] be 9-1 but the fact is they're not. Another fact, those pick sixes [i]did[/i] happen. You can't take them away and say what the game would've been like had they not occurred.

7-3 is among the best records in the league though so I'm not going to harp on what could be that much.
[/quote]


I'm not trying to take the p6's away. That was not the point. It's the fact that the offense does not create much separation in score which I believe is related to lowsy play calling. WE have played bad teams to closely. In some cases the D failed in others the O, but I see a consistent pattern in the O getting too comfortable once the lead reaches 10 points. And when they get too comfortable, the D spends too much time on the field.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1290392971' post='547463']<br />I know you've never liked the pick but inconsistency is to be expected with a rookie. I will ask though, if after only four games where he got a solid amount of snaps, you think he'll be a bust(even though he played very well in one of them), how do you feel about Kruger?<br />[/quote]

Not saying just yet that Cody will be a bust, but I don't have a lot of faith that he'll be the guy we want him to be. Hope I'm wrong, of course, we really need him to work out.
I don't even know how I feel about Kruger right now ... his first couple games back, I didn't mind, the guy hasn't been given a chance til then to really get into any kind of groove (well, he was given one but got hurt the week he was given a chance to start). But I cant give him a pass since then, because since his return, he didn't do much the first couple games (okay, no big deal), and the two games before today he was invisible (not okay with that...even with the lax playing time, he should have shown SOMETHING). He played alright today, and got a sack...he'd be in my doghouse along with Cody if we went another week without seeing anything from him.
My thing with Kruger is, when he's given steady playing time throughout a game, he'll show a ton of potential. When he's rotated in and out, he doesn't do much. I want to see him start all game for a couple games in a row before I begin to abandon hope in him. But as of right now, between his health and inconsistency, I'm not a happy Kruger fan. He needs to get it together real fast. And part of the blame goes to the coaches, IMO. I always felt the switch to full time DE was a dumb decision.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravenmore74' timestamp='1290385418' post='547279']
Yeah! and when Rex Ryan comes to town you will be a NY Jets fan ahhheeeem!!!!
[/quote]
You never cease to amaze me......

[flynismo]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1290392762' post='547459']<br />Cody got chopped on both of Goodson's long runs today and nobody was able to fill the void, Redding allowed himself to get washed too far on the 45 yarder and because Cody was chopped right off the snap there was no one to contain backside to help the LBs, so a G stuck on Ray and Goodson was off the races.  I cant blame a 350 pound NT who just had surgery getting chop blocked by the C for the 2 long runs.<br /><br />Edit- Prestons grades are a bit extreme, the Oline and Dline were average.  I thought the LBs were a B, Suggs breaking up passes, a sack, had like 7 tackles off the edge.  JJ actually provided some pressure for once, and Ray had 11 tackles and a pick 6.  I thought Suggs was an A today, Ray a B, and JJ and McClain a C.<br />[/quote]

meh, Cody looks fine to me; he didn't let the surgery get in the way of playing well last week...this week, it wasn't just those two plays he got beat on, it was pretty much all game long. I don't think he even recorded a single tacke or assist the entire game, despite Carolina running it up the gut most of the day ... I know he's a rook and we should cut him a little slack, but outside of the ATL game, I haven't seen anything to change my mind about him. Guess I'm hard on him too, never liked him as a player, and was livid when we drafted him, so he's been fighting an uphill battle since day one in regards to my opinion on him.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Rinbee' timestamp='1290394504' post='547512']
I'm not trying to take the p6's away. That was not the point. It's the fact that the offense does not create much separation in score which I believe is related to lowsy play calling. WE have played bad teams to closely. In some cases the D failed in others the O, but I see a consistent pattern in the O getting too comfortable once the lead reaches 10 points. And when they get too comfortable, the D spends too much time on the field.
[/quote]

The play-calling has certainly failed when the offense gets a lead(the Pats game being an example) but other times, the team simply hasn't executed. Against the Bills, after the Ravens had clawed their way back and taken the lead, Ed got his second INT. Cam attempted to milk some clock and called a running play and Joe and McGahee promptly botch the snap and the Bills recover it which lead to the Bills getting right in the game.


[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1290395066' post='547524']
Not saying just yet that Cody will be a bust, but I don't have a lot of faith that he'll be the guy we want him to be. Hope I'm wrong, of course, we really need him to work out.
I don't even know how I feel about Kruger right now ... his first couple games back, I didn't mind, the guy hasn't been given a chance til then to really get into any kind of groove (well, he was given one but got hurt the week he was given a chance to start). But I cant give him a pass since then, because since his return, he didn't do much the first couple games (okay, no big deal), and the two games before today he was invisible (not okay with that...even with the lax playing time, he should have shown SOMETHING). He played alright today, and got a sack...he'd be in my doghouse along with Cody if we went another week without seeing anything from him.
My thing with Kruger is, when he's given steady playing time throughout a game, he'll show a ton of potential. When he's rotated in and out, he doesn't do much. I want to see him start all game for a couple games in a row before I begin to abandon hope in him. But as of right now, between his health and inconsistency, I'm not a happy Kruger fan. He needs to get it together real fast. And part of the blame goes to the coaches, IMO. I always felt the switch to full time DE was a dumb decision.
[/quote]

With Cody, that's understandable. Even when he gains experience and learns not to play as high, it's likely he'll have weight issues as long as his career lasts and that will cap his potential.

I agree with you to an extent about Kruger but at this point, the consensus is he, along with Cody, have to step up not just for this season but the D's long-term future.

[hammer]

Never mind Cody. I thought Kelly Gregg was an embarrasment today. Evey time I looked, he was either getting mauled five yards down the field or flat-out getting drilled down into the turf. This cant continue.

[RLewis52]

I dont know how the Giants are ranked over us either we are way better than them in my opinion there is only 2 teams that should be ranked higher than us the Patroits and Jets

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1290398730' post='547633']
Never mind Cody. I thought Kelly Gregg was an embarrasment today. Evey time I looked, he was either getting mauled five yards down the field or flat-out getting drilled down into the turf. This cant continue.
[/quote]

Gregg has been bad all year. He just isn't the difference-maker inside he used to be.

[RoflDogs]

Can't believe some of u are calling Cody a bust.. its his rookie years. Its pretty well known that nose tackles have difficulty adjusting in their rookie yearr. Give him time, and with a good off season (he has shown some work ethic before with losing 20 pounds in a span of a month), I think he can become a dominant player.

On Kruger, I see a lot of potential in him. He has a great motor and with a bit more seasoning (he lacks a passrush repertoire like all of our DL cept Suggs) he can become a solid starter.

And Kelly Greggs time has passed. He's either getting destroyed in the run game or stopped stone cold one on one in pass protection. McKinnie would be a better option

[BohBalmerOsbohs]

Steelers fans say we are trash fans because we laugh at big ben getting punched. lol hypocrites, ask warden, he would laugh his butt off if ray lewis got put in his place like that, their whole fanbase would "the murderer punched, he deserves it"

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1290396290' post='547554']
meh, Cody looks fine to me; he didn't let the surgery get in the way of playing well last week...this week, it wasn't just those two plays he got beat on, it was pretty much all game long. I don't think he even recorded a single tacke or assist the entire game, despite Carolina running it up the gut most of the day ... I know he's a rook and we should cut him a little slack, but outside of the ATL game, I haven't seen anything to change my mind about him. Guess I'm hard on him too, never liked him as a player, and was livid when we drafted him, so he's been fighting an uphill battle since day one in regards to my opinion on him.
[/quote]
Their big runs came on iso's at Reddings side, they never once ran it for a gain right at Cody the entire game. Cody is still learning leverage and hand placement against NFL competition but I really cant blame him for getting chopped twice right off the snap. Cody came up both times to put his hands on the C and the C took his legs out twice, I doubt Cody's ever been chopped like that before in his life.

The only thing Cody needs to work on IMO to be an effective NT is his leverage, he gets too high at times is all.

[Jabara]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1290401518' post='547688']
Gregg has been bad all year. He just isn't the difference-maker inside he used to be.
[/quote]
I don't think Gregg has been bad all season, but I have recently begun to think he's not fit to play so much, anymore.
He started out the season fairly well, but it's obvious his age and previous injuries are keeping him from recovering well.
He doesn't always have his legs under him, it's a shame, he was a great player and I'll always respect him, but I think his time has come.

As far as everyone getting on Cody, that's crazy.
Cody has done well, and hasn't even had enough time to get it all down yet.
It's actually good they saved him, or allowed him to grow most of the season, by resting him, teaching him and allowing him to be fresh to do what he does best.

Someone previously started a post saying, well I guess the Ravens are the only team that doesn't start their rookies, etc.
That was absurd.
We don't need to start them because we have talent at most every position, and just because someone wants to see an instant change in order to provide themselves with some deranged sense of happiness, doesn't mean our organization doesn't know how to teach, grow and use rookies.
And can base that crazy notion on the crazy idea that we draft bust rookies all the time, leaves me speechless...
Instant gratification, what a rush...

[flynismo]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1290401874' post='547697']<br />Can't believe some of u are calling Cody a bust.. its his rookie years. Its pretty well known that nose tackles have difficulty adjusting in their rookie yearr. Give him time, and with a good off season (he has shown some work ethic before with losing 20 pounds in a span of a month), I think he can become a dominant player.<br /><br />On Kruger, I see a lot of potential in him. He has a great motor and with a bit more seasoning (he lacks a passrush repertoire like all of our DL cept Suggs) he can become a solid starter.<br /><br />And Kelly Greggs time has passed. He's either getting destroyed in the run game or stopped stone cold one on one in pass protection. McKinnie would be a better option<br />[/quote]


i didnt call him a bust, I said that the more I see him play, the more I think he will become one.

And gregg is definitely done. We need to replace him, Redding and McKinney asap.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1290412279' post='547779']And can base that crazy notion on the crazy idea that we draft bust rookies all the time, leaves me speechless...Instant gratification, what a rush...[/quote]



where did that come from? No one was talking about us drafting busts all the time. But since you brought it up, we have drafted a lot of busts. In fact we've had entire drafts that yielded next to nothing...but not sure what that has to do with anything?

[ravensdfan]

You draft players based on their college performances and the latent talent that you see. It is not always going to work out. That just is what it is. As for Cody, I wouldn't even begin to call him a bust at this point nor do I see anything that is leaning that way. He has had limited playing time, mostly situational, until last week. As previously stated the big gains were at Redding, not Cody. He is still learning.

Wilson let me down this week though. Wondering if he thought he had some help deep on that play the way he let the receiver get behind him like that.

[ravenanchors]

The problem I see with the secondary is Reed is always late getting over to help the corners.

It is because he stands back away from the receiver and hopes to catch a deflection or get a fumble instead of helping the Corners cover and tackle.

Or it could be because he has slowed down with his old age.

The other safety's have been looking to cover and tackle. That is why there were not a lot of interceptions early in the year. The safety's were helping the corners.

Ed Reed sits back and waits for an opportunity to get an interception and this means he is not helping the corners cover and tackle.

In Reeds old age he should realize that he has slowed down and cannot rely on the same strategy when he was young.
If he spends all game with this mindset and only comes away with 1 interception then I don't believe he is being productive.

[ravenanchors]

Watching Ray Lewis run for the TD was like a shot of reality.
It really makes you realize how old he really is.
It reminded me of an old man.
This might be his last year.
Hopefully the Ravens can give him a Superbowl send off.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1290412279' post='547779']
I don't think Gregg has been bad all season, but I have recently begun to think he's not fit to play so much, anymore.
He started out the season fairly well, but it's obvious his age and previous injuries are keeping him from recovering well.
He doesn't always have his legs under him, it's a shame, he was a great player and I'll always respect him, but I think his time has come.
[/quote]

He [i]has[/i] been bad all season. Name one game where he's stood out or even a situation where he made an impact play this season.

I don't like to put down players but when their performance has been consistently poor, you can't sugarcoat it.