Sick Of Statistics, Real Not Fantasy

[ravenwildman]

All I hear day in and day out is how Statically this QB, RB, WR, yada is good because his numbers are high (low), or fantasy fans are not happy about this player or that.

I even hear the media praising players for great numbers, even when the team loses badly. Lets face it, fantasy football is huge and MUST have influence on some players. Even Ray Rice asked his fantasy fans to "cut him some slack" that the numbers are coming. The reason Madden 11 (or any so called experts) can not always predict who will win is because it can not figure in the human (or X factor).

What I wonder is, how long before players find themselves in a dilemma between doing what the team needs to win, or raising their value in stats?

And will fantasy football change the game (for better or worse) forever?

[organizedchaos007]

absolutely does not matter about fantasy stats. Look back at MJD last year running to the 1 and downing the ball to run clock out to secure the win. Dont think players will ever sacrifice their own team for their own benefit of "fantasy" points.. and if they do.. coaches will cut them or reprimand them. Coaches wont put up with selfishness.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='organizedchaos007' timestamp='1286932834' post='506327']
absolutely does not matter about fantasy stats. Look back at MJD last year running to the 1 and downing the ball to run clock out to secure the win. Dont think players will ever sacrifice their own team for their own benefit of "fantasy" points.. and if they do.. coaches will cut them or reprimand them. Coaches wont put up with selfishness.
[/quote]

Well said.

Players have been interested in their numbers before the rapid rise of fantasy football. Come contract time, a RB would rather point to the 10 TDs he scored during the season than 8. Still, players aren't going to sacrifice the good of the team for their own stats. And really, how often does a scenario like that occur?

[PuRock]

[quote name='organizedchaos007' timestamp='1286932834' post='506327']
absolutely does not matter about fantasy stats. Look back at MJD last year running to the 1 and downing the ball to run clock out to secure the win. Dont think players will ever sacrifice their own team for their own benefit of "fantasy" points.. and if they do.. coaches will cut them or reprimand them. Coaches wont put up with selfishness.
[/quote]

What makes this even more funny is MJD is a huge fantasy player. And whatever league is in, the players always let him draft himself. I think he mentioned last year he lost a fantasy game because he went down at the one.

But players do care about stats. Like ER20 said, long time before fantasy started. Stats help bargain contracts and legacies. But when it comes down to it, real players want to win point blank.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='ravenwildman' timestamp='1286932089' post='506321']
All I hear day in and day out is how Statically this QB, RB, WR, yada is good because his numbers are high (low), or fantasy fans are not happy about this player or that.

I even hear the media praising players for great numbers, even when the team loses badly. Lets face it, fantasy football is huge and MUST have influence on some players. Even Ray Rice asked his fantasy fans to "cut him some slack" that the numbers are coming. The reason Madden 11 (or any so called experts) can not always predict who will win is because it can not figure in the human (or X factor).

What I wonder is, how long before players find themselves in a dilemma between doing what the team needs to win, or raising their value in stats?

And will fantasy football change the game (for better or worse) forever?
[/quote]
Players don't care about the stats. The coaches or possible future coaches know what could be done if the player was given the opportunity.
The only thing like this we have I think is on defense. Situations like last night when the Jets got a picck with about 90 secs left and the Vikings had no timeouts. If that guy ran out of bounds, he would put the Jets offense back on the field and all Sanchez would have to do is take two kneels to win it. Instead they gave the Vikings the ball with 80secs or so down to scores. Now that is a 1 in a 1000 shot there, but better than 1 in a 100000 if the Jets offense goes back to kneel the ball.
This is like what happened in the SanFran, ATL game. If that defender ran out of bounds, they would have won. But he risked fumbling, and he did fumble. Giving ATL a chance to win which they did.
I don't think players do this because stats though, I think it is self satisfaction. It is tough to run a INT back for a TD in the NFL, so if they can they will want to. Heck it's tough to even get an INT in the NFL(especially for the Reed-less Ravens)

[Alexir]

I mean there usually is a direct correlation with big stats in a game towards winning the game.....not sure what your complaint is. I guess something like Houshmanzadeh wishing Pittsburgh to score so he can get another change to get some catches. But hey if Hakeem Nicks gets 2 touch downs that is usually going to contribute to winning a ball game.

But most players are selfish for the ball because they wanna be the hero, they want to go to the pro bowl and go to the hall of fame. That and the incentive laden contracts they sign that give them the green when they reach certain milestones.

[RavensAllTheWay]

All I know is I could care less about stats as long as we win. In MJDs case, he probably gained value from downing at the one last year at the Jets. I mean not fantasy wise obviously, but coaches will look at that kind of thinking, a team first mentality, and they'd love to have that type of guy on their team.

[hawkprey]

It's pathetic that people can sit around and complain about who didn't get them fantasy points for whatever reason even though the team they played for won. It's FANTASY football for a reason. You can't let fantasy dictate reality. That's football on drugs.

[Alexir]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1286941247' post='506386']
It's pathetic that people can sit around and complain about who didn't get them fantasy points for whatever reason even though the team they played for won. It's FANTASY football for a reason. You can't let fantasy dictate reality. That's football on drugs.
[/quote]

I mean thats one of the reasons I dont draft Ravens players. I like to focus on the game when they are playing whereas the other 30 teams (I dont draft Steelers players either cuz that would make me an traitorous swine) I just cheer on who I need to score points so I can get paid.

[jaege]

I voted real game mostly, but the truth is real game only and I am literally talking about the game, not stats. I couldn't give a rats @$$ about fantasy football or stats. Stats only prove that someone can crunch numbers. Neither one is going to get us to the superbowl.

[ravenanchors]

I don't play Fantasy Football and I could care less about it.
It may not have as much impact on the players as it does the fans attitudes and expectation towards those players.

Statistics do not help a team win, they are only good for individual players.

A good example is T.O., he has great stats but his team looses.

Another example is in week 2, the top 4 passing teams all lost.

Another good example is Orton, he has great stats but his team won't win against a playoff quality team.
(etc......)

In other words you may win a couple but you will lose more and you can't win in the playoffs because
big stats show that only a couple of individuals are contributing.

When the Ravens win, it is as a team and not as individuals.

The Raven players will not have great fantasy stats because they each contribute and share the stats. They are spread out more evenly between the players. Once in a while a player will get great stats but it is pretty rare and is usually a coaches decision to take advantage of the weakness of the opposing team.

I believe that stats skew the perception of the fans, because they start to think that the stats are all thats important to winning. And many interpret the stats incorrectly.

Some have said you can compare the stats of 2 receivers from 2 different teams and tell which receiver is a better player. This doesn't work because they play with different QB, Coach, Position (1,2,3)and Offensive system.
This concept is only good in fantasy football.

Alot of young fans are growing up on fantasy football and are under the misconception that real football works the same way.

[DxDOOM]

Never have played it and have no desire too either. I think it distorts the way a game is viewed. I could care less about empty yards and QB ratings. Just give me a hard hitting game!! Played well and the win. Man I am happy!!

[SteelersProphet]

stats are a very important tool to determine quality of a player or a team

now the trap is believing stats are the only tool you need,

but to say that just because stats dont tell the whole story we should discount them is wrong

an experienced and well versed football fan uses all tools at his disposal in breaking down a players performance

now as many of you know i am a stat freak so my opinion might not come as a suprise to most.

[flynismo]

Stats aren't just a tool, its a critical tool. Like many any other things in life (I'll leave it up to you to determine what ), it's all in how you use it.

[ZIBBY28]

stats show how well players produce... sure, they can be skewed, but would Miles Austin have gotten his big pay day without the [i]stats[/i] he put up last year? He still would have been the same player, same person, but basically solely because of his production last year, he's a multi-million dollar man. Fantasy football players/owners aren't the only ones who care what kind of numbers players put up.

I'm getting away from the point, so to answer your question, nothing beats watching games for enjoyment, but I'm a big fantasy football fan... I'll watch the ravens game from kickoff to the final play and could care less about stats if the ravens win, but there's definitely that sense of satisfaction watching the ticker at the bottom when one of "your" players score.

[MagicianCamille]

I have and have always had zero interest in fantasy football.

[flaccopoe]

Titan's Chris Johnson: the king of Fantasy Football!

[ravenanchors]

A couple of people here made good points, such as

"It really depends on how you use the stats."

"The coaches use the stats to pay players."

This is true, to a minor extent, there are other major factors in the decision. Coaches use a players stats to determine if that player has been productive over the previous year.
Those stats do not guarantee a future outcome, only that there is potential, because you will not know what a player will do until he does it.

Also, a player may have good stats with one team but it does not guarantee the player will have good stats when traded, since he will be with a different Coaches, QB, Offensive System and will be used differently than before.

When picking draft picks, you look at historical stats, but that is a small part of what determines if the player will be signed in the NFL. It all has to do with "what have you done for me lately".

Active players have to perform each and every game, regardless of the previous years stats.
That means they have to prove themselves over and over again, because the stats from the previous game is not going to win the next game for them.

The problem with stats is that people don't understand the limitations of stats and don't use stats properly to make decisions.

Stats work with "Fantasy Football" but is not a real factor in "Real Football"

[yakraven]

I don't understtand the arqument - FANTASY = not real!; REAL = real!
Statistics are used for all sorts of things and one of the reasons I'm not a Psychologist; I hated stats in college.

Stats provide real football coaches information on their team, their players, thier plays, and also it plays a large part in player negotiations come contract time and even at draft time. The true value of stats is at the end of a players career. They go on the back of player cards and let little kids say, "wow, he had x-things". The playes can't control their "stats" - the coaches determine who plays, what plays are called, and who gets the ball.
The owners, not the coaches, pay the players, in part based on their stats; if they really do have peformance "bonus'" or "milestones" in their contract then yeah, they may worry abt their stats, but if the team doesn't win their stats are meaningless except in a personal state.

FANTASY football gives the "average Joe" a chance to be an owner, a coach, and run a team. Depending on the nature of the league, they also may make some money and it is probably the money leagues that stats are so important. In the heat of these contests, they could get a "little" upset if the players they "drafted" don't do well. If they then tweet players (and ain't the players happy at that) than the FANTASY player needs a reality check.

Ray was smiling when he made the statement, but I think it's a valid comment; there is no reason players should be harassed by FANTASY owners.

I've tried 3 years to get into a league locally w/o success; my computer was too old to do it on line, but I would hope to do it next year.

[Rob H]

With the Ravens its more about the games. I play fantasy sports to help keep me interested in other games I might not otherwise watch.

[ravenanchors]

there are much more important things to consider other than stats when signing a player to a contract.
Health
Attitude
Age
Team budget
Intelligence

This is not a complete list but so far Stats only play less than 20 percent in decision making.

You can look around the NFL and see that teams are passing around players who have good stats but have bad attitudes.

You can look around the NFL and see players who where drafted and who are not living up to their stats from college.

The Ravens are a good example of a team that picks draft choices without good stats and turns them into great players.

Look at Clayton, he did not do well with the Ravens, but looked like T.O. when traded to the Rams. This is typical.

Housh looked great when he was with Cincinati, but they traded him because of his attitude and so did Seahawks.

Buffalo let T.O. go without even receiving a trade for him and without another good receiver to replace him.

This is all typical of the NFL. Owners and Coaches may look at stats but it is a small part of the decision making process.

"Fantasy Football" is not real football. All you do is guess at who will have better stats. It is a game of chance not based on real football decisions.

[jaege]

[quote name='STEELERS PROPHET268' timestamp='1287016992' post='506878']
stats are a very important tool to determine quality of a player or a team

now the trap is believing stats are the only tool you need,

but to say that just because stats dont tell the whole story we should discount them is wrong

an experienced and well versed football fan uses all tools at his disposal in breaking down a players performance

now as many of you know i am a stat freak so my opinion might not come as a suprise to most.
[/quote]

An experienced and well educated human knows that stats can be, and usually are, manipulated by the person quoting them to(mis)represent a situation in the way that he wishes. I will again state with complete, total and irrefutable accuracy that stats do not win or lose games, players do. Certainly stats have their place, they are amusing to quote off, and they can be used as a crutch to support ones argument.