Merged--Week 6: Patriots

[Jabara]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1286859890' post='505716']
This is the type of game that the Ravens need right now. Harbs has made so secret about his plans of wanting to build a bully, a "Dynasty". Well as they say in order to be the best you have to beat the best. Now i'm not saying that the Pats are the best team in the NFL, but from an organization standpoint, they guys have done it right over the last 10 years.

You can look at the Ravens this year and clearly see where we are building that bully. Being able to go into tough, hard fought, slugfest battles against the Jets and Steelers and come out on top of those games. Then being able to withstand taking the best shot from the Browns in what appeared to be a trap game. Followed by being able to go into a battle with the Broncos and expose them a bit and show why we believe we can be an elite team.

However, now it's time to show and prove why we are that elite team. Going into New England is one of the toughest places to win a game. However last year the Ravens went up there twice and had pretty good showing in both matchups. One being a close loss on a dropped pass, and the other being a dominate playoff win. The Ravens have to be able to go to New England, and beat an above average Patriots team.

Yes i'm aware of the whole brilliance of BB/Brady having 2 weeks to gameplan for the Ravens. However i don't think it should matter much. The Ravens have to go and punch the Pats in the mouth just like every other team we've played.

I'm not sure how this game will turn out yet, i'm sure by thursday i'll have a prediction, but the bottomline is that the Ravens have to have that mentality of an elite team that can compete and beat anyone. I know it's still early but a #1 seed and the chance to host playoff games at the Bank is on the line. You gotta love that.
[/quote]
You have some good points, and the Pats are very good after the bye. Lord knows what rock Belichick will turn over to find any little thing he can, legal or not.
The Pats are coming of an impressive win against the Dolphins, although I feel the Dolphins didn't play well, and the Pats ST's were lights out, there offense wasn't impressive, and hasn't been what we are used to seeing from them. They got rid of Moss and have an extra week to rebuild their team.
Some might worry that the Pats are looking at this game for revenge, when really, we're looking to continue to beat them at home, something we haven't often be able to do.
I think Harbs will have some tricks up his sleeve, and he as a coach has really impressed me this year.
Like our recent win against Denver, I think we are the more physical team, and I like our defense over the Pats D.
The offense I think, is fairly matched, and if Joe can execute and we can get Rice over 100, we should be fine.
I think Tate will take over as the Pats deep threat, but I'm not really worried about their offense facing our defense.

[rlh445]

Hopefully the refs are on their best behavior..and hopefully Brady is too. Nothing I hate seeing more then Brady literally crying on the field and having the refs throw the flag in response just to dry up the tears. ARGHH!

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I think most will agree this is the best equipped team to beat the Patriots in some time, on both sides of the ball. It should be a close game! But I think we can pull it out. More Rice, control the clock and keep Brady off the field.

[RavensMan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' timestamp='1286863410' post='505757']
I think most will agree this is the best equipped team to beat the Patriots in some time, on both sides of the ball. It should be a close game! But I think we can pull it out. More Rice, control the clock and keep Brady off the field.
[/quote]

Exactly. I've never felt so strongly that we can beat the Patriots until now. I don't know if that's because they no longer have Randy Moss and i'll never know but I just have the feeling we'll come away with a W in this one.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RavensMan' timestamp='1286864119' post='505761']<br />Exactly. I've never felt so strongly that we can beat the Patriots until now. I don't know if that's because they no longer have Randy Moss and i'll never know but I just have the feeling we'll come away with a W in this one.<br />[/quote]

Between finally getting it done last year, in the playoffs no less, and this being possibly the best team the Ravens have ever assembled, we should feel confident heading into this game. Even though this is in New England, I wouldn't be surprised if we are a 2 or 3 point favorite.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Absolutely, thinking about the Playoff win last year still gets me fired up! Let's follow it up and move to 5-1 next week in New England.

Last year, we were vulnerable to the deep ball - now, with more disciplined play from a bolstered secondary, not to mention the absence of Randy Moss, we are in much better shape to not be burnt deep.

Not that we were last year against the Patriots anyway, but just knowing we don't have to account for him is a definite plus!

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1286860635' post='505725']
Hernandez, Grownkowski, Edelman, Wes Walker, Tate, and now Deion Branch (who was patriots former superbowl MVP). This patriots game is going to test our secondary to the max. I love Fabian, but I hope Fabian Washington is not too high on koolaid from last games performance. He was great in broncos game, he stunk it up in steelers. Keep on trucking. Well also see what happens to our Special Team...just don't use zibi and Chris Carr.. Other than that, we have a lot of advantage against pats. Their vulnerable against run. Brady is very sackable, and their running back is containable.
[/quote]

Well the good thing about it is, all of those guys can't be on the field at the same time.

I would put a combination of Webb, Wilson and Nakamura on Welker at all times and maybe even split a LB out to get pyshical with him. Even without Moss they will be able to dink and dunk down the field, so the Ravens will have to focus on tackling just as much this week as we have the last couple. Whoever is covering Welker needs to funnel him to the inside where guys like Ray, Landry and Ellerbe will be waiting to deliver a big blow.

With the other guys, because there is no Moss you can play those guys honest with safety help over the top. It'll be hard for the Pats to go 4 and 5 wide because that would leave Brady naked in the backfield and they'll be expecting a defensive gameplan much like they saw in the Wildcard game last year. Stunts up front, and blitzing up the middle to get quick pressure.

This game will look really similar to the Broncos game. The story will be about that Pats offense, but their defense will have to find a way to get our offense off the field.

That Patriot defense is allowing offensives to convert 54% on 3rd downs. They're giving up about 6 yards a play, 7.1 per pass play. I think BB spent as much time during the bye week trying to improve his defense as he did gameplaning for the Ravens. It'll be the matchup of the Ravens O vs Patriots D that will determine this game.

[jonnyloback76]

They're really not that different then the Broncos when it comes to defense. I think Flacco might need to step up a bit more in this game (and stop dropping back so far) and Rice should probably have a pretty decent game. The Ravens passing game might be a bigger factor in this game.

The Patriots are somehow ranked like 12th when it comes to rushing offense, but, I don't think that will be anywhere near that big of a factor in the Ravens/Patriots game. Brady is doing OK when it comes to passing and his numbers might be similar to what Orton did.

I read somewhere they might try to trade for Vincent Jackson. Is there ANYONE in their secondary that Flacco need to try to avoid? Chung and Meriweather are both pretty good players so Cameron might decide to run more, who knows.

I would think that Dickson might be on the field a good deal and defensively whoever the Ravens have that are good for coverage. I don't expect to see Cody out there much at all and think Kruger (if he's better already), Ellerbe and Johnson will get played a lot. Whoever has decent speed and can also put some pressure on Brady.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='jonnyloback76' timestamp='1286865029' post='505772']
They're really not that different then the Broncos when it comes to defense. I think Flacco might need to step up a bit more in this game (and stop dropping back so far) and Rice should probably have a pretty decent game. The Ravens passing game might be a bigger factor in this game.

The Patriots are somehow ranked like 12th when it comes to rushing offense, but, I don't think that will be anywhere near that big of a factor in the Ravens/Patriots game. Brady is doing OK when it comes to passing and his numbers might be similar to what Orton did.

I read somewhere they might try to trade for Vincent Jackson. Is there ANYONE in their secondary that Flacco need to try to avoid? Chung and Meriweather are both pretty good players so Cameron might decide to run more, who knows.

I would think that Dickson might be on the field a good deal and defensively whoever the Ravens have that are good for coverage. I don't expect to see Cody out there much at all and think Kruger (if he's better already), Ellerbe and Johnson will get played a lot. Whichever ones have decent speed and can also put some pressure on Brady.
[/quote]

Patrick Chung totally dominated Miamai's Special Team/Punter/Kicker/QB. Henne stopped being a QB after 3rd quarter, and Brady...Brady got fired up whenever his referee daddy saved him a bunch in the 1st quarter.

[jonnyloback76]

I saw all that. The plays he made and what not when it came to what Chung did. Blocking punts and field goals or whatever it was.

But with Brady at home, hopefully it doesn't turn into a game that is decided by penalties. Cincinnati only had 2 called and Buffalo had 6. Neither of which is that bad IMO.

[wayne]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1286860635' post='505725']
Hernandez, Grownkowski, Edelman, Wes Walker, Tate, and now Deion Branch (who was patriots former superbowl MVP). This patriots game is going to test our secondary to the max. I love Fabian, but I hope Fabian Washington is not too high on koolaid from last games performance. He was great in broncos game, he stunk it up in steelers. Keep on trucking. Well also see what happens to our Special Team...just don't use zibi and Chris Carr.. Other than that, we have a lot of advantage against pats. Their vulnerable against run. Brady is very sackable, and their running back is containable.
[/quote]
Fabian didn't stink it up against the Steelers, go back and look at the stats of the Steelers WRs and Batch stats, he played pretty good. Just b/c he gave up a few passes which is normal in the NFL for CB standards ( we rate him like hes Revis or Champ and thats unfair ) doesn't mean he had a bad game. We are too critical on our team, I mean really!

[flynismo]

[quote name='jonnyloback76' timestamp='1286865029' post='505772']Is there ANYONE in their secondary that Flacco need to try to avoid? Chung and Meriweather are both pretty good players so Cameron might decide to run more, who knows.<br /><br />I would think that Dickson might be on the field a good deal and defensively whoever the Ravens have that are good for coverage. I don't expect to see Cody out there much at all and think Kruger (if he's better already), Ellerbe and Johnson will get played a lot. Whoever has decent speed and can also put some pressure on Brady.[/quote]


Chung shows flashes every now and then, but I'm not too worried about him.
Merriweather, on the other hand, is like Polamalu 2.0. He's an absolute terror.

And Kruger wont be back for this game.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1286860635' post='505725']<br />Hernandez, Grownkowski, Edelman, Wes Walker, Tate, and now Deion Branch (who was patriots former superbowl MVP). This patriots game is going to test our secondary to the max./quote]

Tom Brady is going to test our chins, not those guys. I think Webb can contain Welker one on one, and none of those other guys have proven themselves enough to convince me that they are going to beat our guys one on one. However, Brady is the equalizer; he can make those no names look better than they are.

[Raven07]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1286870758' post='505787']
[b]Fabian didn't stink it up against the Steelers[/b], go back and look at the stats of the Steelers WRs and Batch stats, he played pretty good. Just b/c he [b]gave up a few passes which is normal in the NFL for CB standards[/b] ( we rate him like hes Revis or Champ and thats unfair ) doesn't mean he had a bad game. We are too critical on our team, I mean really!
[/quote]


exactly.....its normal for players to give up a few plays her and there.....theyre humans....not machines....so therefore they make mistakes...only when ones sleeping does one not make a mistake. IF you think back to when we played the Jets and went up against, Cromartie....whos an oustanding cornerback in his own right....and one to which the jets gave up alot for.....he played fair....not great, but fair....giving up plays more than im sure the jets would've liked to see from him....so we kept attacking him over and over again, thus resulting in plays where the only way for him to prevent a catch or a TD was to cause a pentalty......

so it goes without saying....Fabian as far as im concerned is doing a GREAT job thus far, heres to seeing the trend continue....after all,.... hes said he wants to be a "elite corner back" and if he keeps up this pace....he very well could be.....after all Cormartie is labeled as an "elite" cornerback by some.....and look at how many plays he gave up.....

[FerrariFan87]

Again, pressure will be key in stopping the big play... in addition, making sure tackles underneath will be key in determining our success or failure on Sunday.

[Jamal]

Suggs usually has big games against NE. Hopefully he has another one this Sunday.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1286902028' post='505981']
Suggs usually has big games against NE. Hopefully he has another one this Sunday.
[/quote]

With the way Cameron Wake applied pressure on Brady on MNF a week ago, I'm expecting Suggs to have a big afternoon.

On another note, limiting Tate will be huge. The Ravens have the best kick-off coverage in the league but Tate has been one of the best returners too.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1286902376' post='505984']
[b]With the way Cameron Wake applied pressure on Brady on MNF a week ago, I'm expecting Suggs to have a big afternoon.[/b]

On another note, limiting Tate will be huge. The Ravens have the best kick-off coverage in the league but Tate has been one of the best returners too.
[/quote]

Ahhh yes Cameron Wake. I hope to see Suggs gets off like Wake. Need to see that fire on everydown from him this Sunday.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1286902511' post='505985']
Ahhh yes Cameron Wake. I hope to see Suggs gets off like Wake. Need to see that fire on everydown from him this Sunday.
[/quote]

I knew you'd pop up at the mention of Wake Pu. But I agree with what you said. Suggs needs collect at least one sack this game or at least a number of QB hits. I understand the team likes for him to pick up RBs slipping out of the backfield but he's still the team's best pass rusher and pressure against Golden Boy is paramount.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1286902824' post='505987']
I knew you'd pop up at the mention of Wake Pu. But I agree with what you said. Suggs needs collect at least one sack this game or at least a number of QB hits. I understand the team likes for him to pick up RBs slipping out of the backfield but he's still the team's best pass rusher and pressure against Golden Boy is paramount.
[/quote]

If I were a coach, part of my gameplan would be to have Suggs watch Cameron Wake cuts (against the patriots) all week long. Just say "we want that" from you this week.

We need to bring the rush but without the heavy blitz. Brady would torch the blitz by hitting the open man all day long. Take Suggs off RB duty and put him on pass rush duty all day. We need him to have a big game here (and he should).

Show me why we (not me specifically, I'm broke) paid you that money, in this game!

[funky141]

[quote]I think Webb can contain Welker [/quote]

Thats funny, know one has contain Welker yet. I see the Ravens double teaming Welker and trying their luck with the other Patriots WRs.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1286903230' post='505994']
If I were a coach, part of my gameplan would be to have Suggs watch Cameron Wake cuts (against the patriots) all week long. Just say "we want that" from you this week.

We need to bring the rush but without the heavy blitz. Brady would torch the blitz by hitting the open man all day long. Take Suggs off RB duty and put him on pass rush duty all day. We need him to have a big game here (and he should).

Show me why we (not me specifically, I'm broke) paid you that money, in this game!
[/quote]

Areed 100%.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1286903385' post='505995']
Thats funny, know one has contain Welker yet. I see the Ravens double teaming Welker and trying their luck with the other Patriots WRs.
[/quote]

Welker [i]has[/i] been contained before. Buffalo did it this year holding him to only 4 catches for 45 yards. In fact, they did it in the second game last year as well when Welker only had 4 catches for 40 yards. Going back to last year, he's caught more than 5 passes in every game he's played with them except for those two.

I don't whether the Bills put Reggie Corner on him or one of their starters but if they can do it, so can Webb.

[FerrariFan87]

Joe was absolutely terrible in the playoff game, but then again, he didn't have to do much. We need a MUCH better effort this week, and I expect that we will get that.

[flynismo]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1286903385' post='505995']Thats funny, know one has contain Welker yet. I see the Ravens double teaming Welker and trying their luck with the other Patriots WRs.[/quote]

That IS funny, because Welker has hardly done crap this year and he no longer has big brother Moss around to protect him (does anyone else see the family resemblance?). Webb will do what everyone else has done this year and hold Welker to about 55 yards.

[funky141]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1286903916' post='505999']
Welker [i]has[/i] been contained before. Buffalo did it this year holding him to only 4 catches for 45 yards. In fact, they did it in the second game last year as well when Welker only had 4 catches for 40 yards. Going back to last year, he's caught more than 5 passes in every game he's played with them except for those two.

I don't whether the Bills put Reggie Corner on him or one of their starters but if they can do it, so can Webb.
[/quote]

It's Buffalo for pete sake. You don't need to pass to move the chains against Buffalo. This is a big game so expect Welker to catch in the range of 5 to 10 balls with a score, easily. To expect Webb to cover Welker by himself is insane.

[funky141]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286906609' post='506029']
That IS funny, because Welker has hardly done crap this year and he no longer has big brother Moss around to protect him (does anyone else see the family resemblance?). Webb will do what everyone else has done this year and hold Welker to about 55 yards.
[/quote]

Take the purple glasses off, Welker has been averaging 6 catches and about 60 yards a game. And just under a TD a game so he is due Sunday.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1286907167' post='506035']
It's Buffalo for pete sake. You don't need to pass to move the chains against Buffalo. This is a big game so expect Welker to catch in the range of 5 to 10 balls with a score, easily. To expect Webb to cover Welker by himself is insane.
[/quote]

Teams can move the ball a multitude of way against Buffalo but no one can argue that Welker isn't Brady's primary read most of the time and in those games Welker was contained(something you said no one has been able to do).

How is it insane to say Webb can successfully cover Welker? Have you seen Webb play? No one is saying he's Asomugha or an elite CB but he's cat-quick, has very good closing speed and is a better tackler than most CBs in the NFL.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1286907348' post='506036']
Take the purple glasses off, Welker has been averaging 6 catches and about 60 yards a game. And [b]just under a TD a game so he is due Sunday.[/b]
[/quote]

Gambler's fallacy. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

But keep in mind with Moss out, the secondary can shift to better contain Welker. No one said the Pats had a bad passing attack, and we all know Welker is a big part of that. But that's really all they have.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1286907348' post='506036']&lt;br /&gt;Take the purple glasses off, Welker has been averaging 6 catches and about 60 yards a game. And just under a TD a game so he is due Sunday.&lt;br /&gt;[/quote]<br /><br />is this going to be like last week when you told me to get real when i said we'd blow out denver and they can easily drop 28-31 points on us? Why do i have to "get real"? I said we'd hold him to 55 yards, and you confirmed my point by stating he's averaging 60 yards a game.<br />And welker has 3 tds year, none in the last two weeks. He may be &quot;due&quot;,  but we are also &quot;due&quot; to ball up yet another elite team.,,,,