MERGED: Flacco Needs to Play Better

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286851668' post='505598']
the defense probably has won more games for us. Would you expect any different from a qb in his rookie/second year and the defense is as dominant as ours?

Which makes me realize something else. Why is it that snachez is worshipped but flacco is criticised? Seriously. Sanchez is no where near flacco's level, yet everyone is so smitten with him.
[/quote]

Exactly if everyone can pretty much accept that Flacco has been along for a ride these last 2 years then why is everyone so quick to make him our 15 year franchise qb right now...he's got to show me he can take the reigns and RUN a team CONSISTENTLY..

[flynismo]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1286852069' post='505603']<br />Exactly if everyone can pretty much accept that Flacco has been along for a ride these last 2 years then why is everyone so quick to make him our 15 year franchise qb right now...he's got to show me he can take the reigns and RUN a team CONSISTENTLY..<br />[/quote]

woah, there is a big difference between saying what i said and saying that he has been riding the defense's coat tails.

[Alexir]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1286837805' post='505397']
Notice that Alexir didn't even pay attention to flynismo's highly relevant point; that if you remove the Bengals game from his total stats, his numbers look well above average. That game skews his statistics, and it was the second game of the year.

When did people get the idea that we were going add two receivers and a QB coach, and Flacco was going to instantly morph into the greatest of all time? Jim Zorn barely had a chance to do anything at all before people were calling for Bulger!

Btw flynismo, just to add to your point, Flacco also threw a great TD pass to Todd Heap in the Jets game, dropped/defended. He threw the pass that caused Housh to draw PI, which we got our TD out of. There were at least 50 more yards of PI penalties that he deserves some credit for. And we got a TD out of the PI call on Mason yesterday.
[/quote]

lol again, no one is saying Flacco should be the greatest of all time. I just want a high completion percentage and better thrown balls.

The PI on Mason was a rookie mistake, if that was a veteran corner they would of had the play on the ball.

Anyways im done talking to you, JohnJohnson....Sweet name by the way.

[hammer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286842842' post='505472']
Okay, well this is kinda strange to debate, so allow me to just leave this thread with my final thoughts (if Springer can do it, so can I dammit)...Hopefully, we can all at least agree that in his 2+ seasons here, Flacco has show us more than enough to believe that his future is promising. The worst case scenario in my opinion is that he'll spend his career as a matt hassellbeck type player: very good, reliable and may even win the occasional game for you. The best case scanario is that, dare I say it, he becomes an elite quartback, one that dominates like few others. He has it in him to be that guy. It is a matter of gaining experience and developing a rapport with his recievers, and continuing to take two steps forward after taking a step back.Just remember fellas, when we drafted him, we knew he was starting at a disadvantage due to the college and division he played in. We knew he was going to take a litttle time to mature and adjust to the nfl.And that makes his success so much more amazing. He is far ahead of what you could reasonably expect of him. Now I want serve up some criticism of my own, hopefully that will get me in the good graces of some of my fellow posters haha...Flacco is quite good at identifying blitzes. However, he needs to read and decipher defenses better. That is something that will only come with experience...and a lot of it.A lot of people say flacco's mechanics need refinement, including announcers. I dont necessarily agree. Flacco has tremendous arm strength that lets him get away with throwing off his back foot, for example. I dont think it really effects his accuracy much either. I think the reason why flaccos throws are unbelievable (in both the good and bad sense of the word) is due to his anticipation and on the fly adjustments that he makes. What I mean is, he appears to try to read the D and guesses what will happen...hence the reason he seems to lock on to his target. When he guesses right, he doesn't need to make any mental or physical adjustments, and he is simply amazingly accurate when he knows what to do and when to do it. But when he guesses wrong, he has to adjust, and to me, I think that is where he struggles. Sometimes he extends the play with his feet and often has success doing so. Other times, he just loses focus and throws the ball without thinking fast enough.Basically, I think it all comes down to flacco's analysis of defenses. When he gets that down, and believe me he will, this thread is going to look pretty silly.You can only expect so much from a guy who hasnt even played 40 nfl games yet.
[/quote]

I believe the above is a very reasonable analysis.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286852536' post='505608'] I just want a high completion percentage and better thrown balls.  [/quote]

are you taking into consideration the level of defenses he has played? Or the six billion drops by our recievers and a couple by heap?

Now, i do realize flacco has made some piss poor throws too. I'm not debating that. But 57% considering the defenses and the drops...do you feel that should carry any weight?

I'm not using that as an excuse of any sort for flacco. I want pure domination against all comers. But I'm trying to be realistic too..,,,,

[Alexir]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286841714' post='505452']
Alexir seems to understand the game of football from the standpoint of "Fantasy Football" where the way to determine if a player is any good is you look at the stats.

That is not how real football works and thats not how teams win games.
This whole argument has been the Joe's stats are not good enough.

The stats for players on the Ravens team will not be great, because each player sacrifices some stats so the team wins. The receivers in the Denver game sacrificed so the team could run the clock out with the running game.

Boldin 1 catch
TJ 2 Catches
Joe has fewer throwing yards
[/quote]


Wow, welcome to the forums, I ve never seen you around here before....

First of all, I understand the game of football and would never make such an idiotic comment about someone I have never met based on their opinion of a player. [i]<no personal attacks>[/i]

Second of all, What the heck does fantasy football have to do with this? I don't care how many touchdowns he throws or yards hes throws for, I just want him to be more accurate. When Heap is running a Fade route to the sidelines 10 yards away, and Flacco throws it 5 feet away, that is a red flag to me. So sorry I am attacking your QB.
I just want to see more accuracy from him ( which now marks the 20th time I have said that and none of you have proved me wrong on the fact that he has overthrown several wide open receivers). His stats are a lil padded by full backs and running backs getting check down passes but hey sometimes you have to do that, however it gets the team the win.

Third of all, I think it's funny that you think that the Receivers sacrificed something in the last game when Joe was 0 for 9 in the second half, forcing the Ravens to go to their bread and butter. Yes Boldin dropped a ball, but he doesn't do a lot of that and Mason drops some balls but after playing with one arm in 2008, Mason pretty much can't do no wrong.

Finally, I still cant get over the fantasy football stand point. When did I bring up passing yards and touchdowns? I brought up completion percentage. I didn't even bring up his QB rating of 70 something because I didnt feel that to be relevant. So why don't you get your facts right before you just look like a troll, buddy.

[Alexir]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286852968' post='505612']
,

are you taking into consideration the level of defenses he has played? Or the six billion drops by our recievers and a couple by heap?

Now, i do realize flacco has made some piss poor throws too. I'm not debating that. But 57% considering the defenses and the drops...do you feel that should carry any weight?

I'm not using that as an excuse of any sort for flacco. I want pure domination against all comers. But I'm trying to be realistic too..,,,,
[/quote]


I agree we have played 2 great defenses in the Steelers and Jets and a good defense in the Bengals. I don't think our receivers dropped 6 billion balls, maybe Housh but Boldin and Mason have looked real good. The throws that go incomplete where there is a defensive back in the area is not what I am referring too, I am talking about wide open guys who are getting the balls sailing over their heads.

We all knew Boldin would get covered by Champ most of the game, and lets face it those are 2 Hall of Famers battling, but I feel Flacco didn't capitalize on the open receivers and tight ends who were mismatched.

[beasy2487]

This thread just proves that regardless of what our record shows, people are going to see what they want to see.

Guys like alexir and "i am slightly pretentious" (errr legend?) want drew brees. Sometimes it feels like these dudes would hand back our super bowl ring if only Dilfer would've put up 300 yards a game. I know that's far from the truth but it's exactly how you guys sound.

Me? I want to win. I want a QB who does it when he has to (um... Steelers game anyone?) and who doesn't throw away the game when the other guys around him are carrying the load (read: patriots in the playoffs and the broncos yesterday).

Sometimes I hate the way the NFL has evolved. Fantasy stats and pass happy offenses... all it's done is breed stat snobs. You'd think Flacco threw 5 picks yesterday the way this thread is unfolding.

Whatever man. To quote a once great man: "Just win baby."

[I AM LEGEND]

Flacco needs to be more consistent...period.

[Alexir]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1286854690' post='505635']
This thread just proves that regardless of what our record shows, people are going to see what they want to see.

Guys like alexir and "i am slightly pretentious" (errr legend?) want drew brees. Sometimes it feels like these dudes would hand back our super bowl ring if only Dilfer would've put up 300 yards a game. I know that's far from the truth but it's exactly how you guys sound.

Me? I want to win. I want a QB who does it when he has to (um... Steelers game anyone?) and who doesn't throw away the game when the other guys around him are carrying the load (read: patriots in the playoffs and the broncos yesterday).

Sometimes I hate the way the NFL has evolved. Fantasy stats and pass happy offenses... all it's done is breed stat snobs. You'd think Flacco threw 5 picks yesterday the way this thread is unfolding.

Whatever man. To quote a once great man: "Just win baby."
[/quote]

don't put words in my mouth. You sound pretty pretentious yourself saying I want Drew Brees. I dont care how much yardage or TDs he puts on the box score, I just want the simple passes to be completed. Don't lump me into a category if you arent going to read what I am saying. That and with the weapons he has, he needs to take it to the next level. I am well aware we are a run first team and I like it that way, but when we call his number I would like some consistency. Not 300+ yard games, just moving the chains and making the easy throws catchable...

[berad]

[color="#8B0000"][b]MOD NOTE:[/b][/color] Alright, people, this has become far too personal. Are we debating Flacco or each others intelligence?

Don't press the issue, be civil, or this thread is going to be gone.

Thanks.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286858583' post='505705']
don't put words in my mouth. You sound pretty pretentious yourself saying I want Drew Brees. I dont care how much yardage or TDs he puts on the box score, I just want the simple passes to be completed. Don't lump me into a category if you arent going to read what I am saying. That and with the weapons he has, he needs to take it to the next level. I am well aware we are a run first team and I like it that way, but when we call his number I would like some consistency. Not 300+ yard games, just moving the chains and making the easy throws catchable...
[/quote]

I've read every word of your posts, and I'm not lumping you in with anyone... but yourself. Explain to me why you want "better" stats from Flacco? So we stop losing? We're 4 and 1? So we can beat great defenses? Like the Jets? Or so we can win huge games in crunch time? ..Like the Steelers with 40 seconds on the clock? Oh no so that we can beat great QBs with prolific passing games? Like Orton and the Broncos? Enlighten me.

Can Flacco play better? Absolutely. But explain to me why you are so adamant about pointing out his faults? What is the purpose? I'd understand completely if we were losing as a team or if Flacco was [i]consistently losing us games[/i]... but neither of those things are happening. In fact, neither of those things have happened in Flacco's entire career. 2 winning seasons, 2 playoff berths, 1 championship game and now a 4-1 record with the only loss being at a divisional opponent on their turf coming off an immensely emotional game.

It's like TMZ. Yea, we could focus on the negatives, but why? That is... unless our team is great and we have nothing else to talk about... Oh ok nevermind it makes perfect sense.

PS- The pretentious comment was directed at I AM LEGEND. [i]<but we're not talking about that>[/i]

[rlh445]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286837208' post='505389']
I cheer him on when he makes a good throw![b] The fact that you are ignorant to the fact that he is over throwing his receivers on short yardage throws is just cracking me up. You act like I am nitpicking, when I am just commenting on what he is doing in the game.[/b]

I think he will have a monster game in New England. I am excited to watch that game. I know the schedule hasn't been kind to us this year with the defenses that we have faced at their stomping grounds but we are 4-1 and you're right, Flacco has been a key part of that. But like you said, everyone needs to improve. I just feel like on offense, he is that guy that needs to get over the hump so he can take this team to deep play off runs every year.
[/quote]


No, I'm aware of that fact, and also aware that he's going to do that every game, like every other QB. The only time I'm going to complain or comment about that is if that's ALL he's doing, and not making any good throws..which hasn't happened yet. He lets some balls sail and I hold my breath, but some like in the case of the Dickson pass, end up working out. Others don't. But if he lets a few sail and comes away clean, that's something we have to learn to live with. He came away without any INTs, so I just fail to see any reason to bring it up when it didn't happen too many times yesterday and he made a much higher number of good passes.

[JohnJohnson]

The point is, people need to keep their expectations in check. You're not entitled to anything, and there is a lot of chance involved in getting to a Super Bowl. Fans need to understand this, and not be so ready to dump everything on Flacco. It's just getting old.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1286859719' post='505715']
[color="#8B0000"][b]MOD NOTE:[/b][/color] Alright, people, this has become far too personal. Are we debating Flacco or each others intelligence?

Don't press the issue, be civil, or this thread is going to be gone.

Thanks.
[/quote]
I vote shut her down....this thread is ridiculous and is just a revolving circle.

[flynismo]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1286858440' post='505704']<br />Flacco needs to be more consistent...period.[/quote]

who doesn't?

[rlh445]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1286851156' post='505593']
I disagree I'm not gonna go out on the limb and say I'm looking at a 15 year QB here..because I still feel like I'm looking at more of a game managing Qb that can easily be replaced...I still also feel this defense is more responsible for more wins in these 3 years then Flacco is...don't get me wrong I feel like he's made some progress in these first 5 games but imo he still has a lot to work on..
[/quote]

Lol, oh yea, that's definitely true. Flacco is nothing more then Trent Dilfer with hair. Oh wait, he single-handedly beat our arch rival in their house with little help from the defense. But we'll just pretend that didn't happen and continue to call him a 'game manager'.

[berad]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1286861402' post='505734']
I vote shut her down....this thread is ridiculous and is just a revolving circle.
[/quote]

Maybe I have battered-moderator syndrome because I'm willing to give them one more chance. There is some validity to the point that Flacco needs to improve in certain areas but, then again, who doesn't? He's played very well since the Bengals game, we're 4-1, we should be happy.

[RavensMan]

The same ones that's saying Flacco is perfect will be the same ones yelling bench him when he has 1 or 2 bad games in a row.

Everybody is saying "Oh who doesn't need to be consistent who doesn't?" If you agree that he needs to be more consistent why are you arguing? This is a FLACCO threat so saying "Drew brees needs to be more consistent" and "Peyton needs to be more consistent" is pointless. If you want to talk about their consistency go over to their forum. We're talking about OUR quarterback so why are you bringing up other quarterbacks I can careless about how consistent they are. By saying "Who doesn't need to be more consistent" is basically agreeing with the topic.

[rlh445]

I think 1/28/01 has a point. We're not changing each others' minds here, and the entire argument is ridiculous. If you're not behind Flacco after his three years and five games with us, and only wish to focus on the slightly negative things in his game but refuse to give credit for the great things he's done (going so far as to call him a game manager and compare him to Alex Smith and Jason Campbell) then you're never going to get it, and I'm tired of wasting my fingers on you. It's obvious you're a little too spoiled at the moment, and either don't remember or weren't a fan when we had, literally, a revolving door of horrible quarterbacks. I would have sliced off my own arm to have an actual quarterback here, and now that we have it and are WINNING with him, we're all supposed to believe he's not as good as he could be. I disagree..he's better then he should be.

[rlh445]

[quote name='RavensMan' timestamp='1286862160' post='505741']
The same ones that's saying Flacco is perfect will be the same ones yelling bench him when he has 1 or 2 bad games in a row.
[/quote]

No one said he's perfect, everyone in this thread on either side of the argument has said he can improve. When Flacco performed badly in Cinci, I'm sure the ones on the other side of the argument were bugling for Bulger, but I wasn't. I stand behind Flacco because he's earned it. Saying 'he needs to improve' is world's away from 'he's basically Trent Dilfer/Alex Smith/Jason Campbell'. I know it's a big thread, but you should probably read it the whole way through before commenting.

[1/28/01]

Ahhhhhhh.....stop the madness! I better wake up to see this thread DEAD! Good night!

[RavensMan]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1286862464' post='505744']
No one said he's perfect, everyone in this thread on either side of the argument has said he can improve. When Flacco performed badly in Cinci, I'm sure the ones on the other side of the argument were bugling for Bulger, but I wasn't. I stand behind Flacco because he's earned it. You don't seem to have a horse in this race, and haven't even contributed either way, so I'm not sure what you were trying to gain with your off topic post.
[/quote]

I actually posted four or five times in this thread bud.

[rlh445]

[quote name='RavensMan' timestamp='1286862576' post='505746']
I actually posted four or five times in this thread bud.
[/quote]

Good for you! I'm sure I enjoyed your posts, which is why I don't remember them.

[berad]

Wow, this is why we can't have nice things!

My warning was ignored by some, the thread is closed.