MERGED: Flacco Needs to Play Better

[rlh445]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286830768' post='505312']
Rice has been injured and not getting touches. I will say TJ needs to be quiet and catch the ball when it hits his hand but you have no ground to stand on if you think Boldin and Mason are responsible for Flacco's low completion percentage.

I did bring up a real arguement about Flacco playing average, his numbers speak for themselves, taking a sack on 4th and inches speaks for itself, throwing off his back foot speaks for itself, receivers coming back for underthrown passes speaks for itself.

We are 4-1. I am happy. Besides the Bengals game Flacco has played well. Not great, just well.

Like I've said before, if you feel like I am bad mouthing your role model/man crush, sorry that you are ok with average play. I know he has the talent to do better and I think Cam and Zorn need to work with him so one day he can go to a pro bowl, life a lombardi or give a speech in Canton. I want rivals like Bengals and Steelers have to game plan towards Flacco like we do against Big Ben.

Im merely pointing out how razzled he looks sometimes when he snaps the ball and how he isn't that accurate this year. That's all. Like Ive said, he has my respect and I cheer for him and Sunday he made some great plays with his feet and called his own number.

As for Gaither, what is their to say about him? He's either injured or Albert Haynesworth Jr. If you want me to talk about Gaither I will. But this thread title is Flacco Needs to Play Better. Which I didn't start, just commenting on it.

So if you are too emotional to have a civilized debate about Flacco's play this year and what he needs to work on, maybe you should avoid this thread.
[/quote]

My personal problem with threads like these are attitudes like yours. 'If you like mediocre play, blah blah blah blah get out, if you can't take "constructive criticism" get out,'. I think you may be mixed up on what the word mediocre means. Mediocre quarterbacks don't singlehandedly bring their teams back from certain defeat. Mediocre quarterbacks don't constantly march their teams down the field with apparent ease. Mediocre quarterbacks don't come into their first season and help take their team to the playoffs, let alone do it the very next year. If Joe is a mediocre quarterback, then why didn't we just stick with Troy?

Wanting more from a position player is great. When they're really messing up, a la Clayton last year it's certainly fine to vent frustration. But what some of you are doing isn't 'constructive' in the least, it's nitpicking for the sake of having something to complain about. And what is criticizing Joe for tiny mistakes getting us as a fan base besides a crap load of bickering? It seems as if some aren't seeing the forest for the trees, on purpose. Of course, what am I talking about, some in this thread were probably leading the front lines about getting starting Troy Smith 'just to see what he can do' and were probably bugling for Bulger as well. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised that as usual, some of the Ravens fans make it so the rest of us can't have nice things. We've become a spoiled bunch of brats, and personally, I'm kind of ashamed of it.

Oh, and by the way. He got sacked IN THE POCKET because the POCKET COLLAPSED. EVERY QB you can think of would have gotten sacked on that play. Or did you forget that when it happened later in the game, Joe somehow got away and ran for the first down? I'm sure it just slipped your mind. On the Scott Garceau show today, some dumb fan called in to talk about Joe's 'slow release' and then went on to try and paint this picture about taking some plays from Brady and Joe, matching them up to see just how much quicker Brady's release is. REALLY?! He reminded me of some of you guys. Just..mind boggling.

[berad]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286835242' post='505360']
[b]The goalline call was stupid but he needs to throw the ball away so the Defense has a chance at a safety or something.[/b]

Flacco had the opportunities in the second half but after going 0 for 9, they just had him feeding the ball into Rice's gut.
[/quote]

Unless you just read the play-by-play and didn't watch, you had to see that he had 2-3 guys on top of him in almost a second of the snap. His protection was terrible. Throwing the ball away, in that situation, would have been more dangerous than eating a sack.

There were also some drops in the second half, some not Flacco's fault. You must have seen that. But, again, if you only read the play-by-play, you wouldn't have.. Cam went with the running game to eat up clock and because the Broncos could not stop it. The Bronco defense was on their heels the entire second half, we beat them up.

[rlh445]

I think Harbaugh should call up Stony Case. Anyone remember that guy? How about Grbac? I'm sure he's not doing anything. Oh wait! We could always see if San Fran (who hasn't even started him despite being 0-5) will just give us back Troy Smith. Then we can sit Joe, our obviously mediocre quarterback, for someone who is leagues above his skill set.

[Alexir]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1286835267' post='505361']
My personal problem with threads like these are attitudes like yours. 'If you like mediocre play, blah blah blah blah get out, if you can't take "constructive criticism" get out,'. I think you may be mixed up on what the word mediocre means. Mediocre quarterbacks don't singlehandedly bring their teams back from certain defeat. Mediocre quarterbacks don't constantly march their teams down the field with apparent ease. Mediocre quarterbacks don't come into their first season and help take their team to the playoffs, let alone do it the very next year. If Joe is a mediocre quarterback, then why didn't we just stick with Troy?

Wanting more from a position player is great. When they're really messing up, a la Clayton last year it's certainly fine to vent frustration. But what some of you are doing isn't 'constructive' in the least, it's nitpicking for the sake of having something to complain about. And what is criticizing Joe for tiny mistakes getting us as a fan base besides a crap load of bickering? It seems as if some aren't seeing the forest for the trees, on purpose. Of course, what am I talking about, some in this thread were probably leading the front lines about getting starting Troy Smith 'just to see what he can do' and were probably bugling for Bulger as well. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised that as usual, some of the Ravens fans make it so the rest of us can't have nice things. We've become a spoiled bunch of brats, and personally, I'm kind of ashamed of it.

Oh, and by the way. He got sacked IN THE POCKET because the POCKET COLLAPSED. EVERY QB you can think of would have gotten sacked on that play. Or did you forget that when it happened later in the game, Joe somehow got away and ran for the first down? I'm sure it just slipped your mind. On the Scott Garceau show today, some dumb fan called in to talk about Joe's 'slow release' and then went on to try and paint this picture about taking some plays from Brady and Joe, matching them up to see just how much quicker Brady's release is. REALLY?! He reminded me of some of you guys. Just..mind boggling.
[/quote]

Well if you read ONE of my posts in this thread you would realize that I don't hate Flacco and that I actually complimented him on the plays he made with his feet. And if you can back peddle 15 yards on a play, you should be able to throw it away. The coaching staff didn't put him in a good position there but like I said, He did end up making some plays with his feet.

Right now Joe is doing a great job being a game manager. But if that's the case why did we just bring in Boldin, Stallworth and TJ if we just want him to manage the games?

Joe was a great part of our play off runs but a lot of that had to do with our Bread and Butter, aka Ray Rice and our defense.

No one here is saying start Bulger or Troy Smith should be the starter, we are simply stating that Flacco needs to play better with the talent surrounding him.

The best part of your retort was that you comment on how bad Clayton was last year. Isn't that a little hypocritical of you to say since the QB has to actually target him and throw to his side?

Joe will be fine. Joe is our QB. Everyone understands that. I guess you guys just skim these things so I will make it clear.

[b]We are winning games. It's great. Joe is managing games. But after 2 years of being in Cam Cameron's system, after having Hue Jackson and Jim Zorn mentor you, after all of the OTA's and offseasons, after all the weapons we gave him, I want to see a little more in his 3rd season from him than the performance he has given through 5 weeks.[/b]

[b]That's All. No one is calling him bad. No one is saying he is a bust. But I feel like there is no more excuses, he just needs to play better football and make better throws.[/b]

[berad]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1286835923' post='505372']
I think Harbaugh should call up Stony Case. Anyone remember that guy? How about Grbac? I'm sure he's not doing anything. Oh wait! We could always see if San Fran (who hasn't even started him despite being 0-5) will just give us back Troy Smith. Then we can sit Joe, our obviously mediocre quarterback, for someone who is leagues above his skill set.
[/quote]

People forget the horrible era when our QB position was a revolving door of stink. Some more in addition to the ones you named: Boller, Redman, Wright grrr I'm getting mad just thinking about it!

[berad]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286836002' post='505374']
Right now Joe is doing a great job being a game manager. But if that's the case why did we just bring in Boldin, Stallworth and TJ if we just want him to manage the games?


[b]We are winning games. It's great. Joe is managing games. But after 2 years of being in Cam Cameron's system, after having Hue Jackson and Jim Zorn mentor you, after all of the OTA's and offseasons, after all the weapons we gave him, I want to see a little more in his 3rd season from him than the performance he has given through 5 weeks.[/b]

[b]That's All. No one is calling him bad. No one is saying he is a bust. But I feel like there is no more excuses, he just needs to play better football and make better throws.[/b]
[/quote]

Did Joe manage the games against Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and [i](to a lesser degree but, still)[/i] New York? Joe Flacco was the offense for those games without a consistent running presence. This was one game. Look at all of them.

[Alexir]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1286835684' post='505368']
Unless you just read the play-by-play and didn't watch, you had to see that he had 2-3 guys on top of him in almost a second of the snap. His protection was terrible. Throwing the ball away, in that situation, would have been more dangerous than eating a sack.

There were also some drops in the second half, some not Flacco's fault. You must have seen that. But, again, if you only read the play-by-play, you wouldn't have.. Cam went with the running game to eat up clock and because the Broncos could not stop it. The Bronco defense was on their heels the entire second half, we beat them up.
[/quote]

I Watched the game. I haven't even read the play by play or box score. Those guys were coming after him but like I just said, If you can back peddle 15 yards and take a snap, there are more options you can do.

Intentional Grounding would of saved 5 yards. Falling down would of saved more yardage. Calling an audible by looking at the coverage would have done more.

There are always gonna be dropped balls but the ratio of spectacular catches to dropped balls is in heavy favor of spectacular catches.

[berad]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286836273' post='505377']
I Watched the game. I haven't even read the play by play or box score. Those guys were coming after him but like I just said, If you can back peddle 15 yards and take a snap, there are more options you can do.

Intentional Grounding would of saved 5 yards. Falling down would of saved more yardage. Calling an audible by looking at the coverage would have done more.

There are always gonna be dropped balls but the ratio of spectacular catches to dropped balls is in heavy favor of spectacular catches.
[/quote]

They were missed blocks, botched blocks, had nothing to do with the allignment the defense was in. It had everything to do with our OL and, namely, Todd Heap, getting beat and not giving enough time for the play to develop. He wasn't "backpedaling", he was scanning the field, on a poorly designed play with no one open, when he was sacked pretty abruptly.

Maybe you need to watch again - [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101001/2010/REG5/broncos@ravens#tab:watch"]LINK[/url]

Chalk that one up to the guy who drew up / called that play. Not the guy who ran it.

And I was just pointing it out. Receivers should catch the ball, it's their job.

[Alexir]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1286836195' post='505376']
Did Joe manage the games against Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and [i](to a lesser degree but, still)[/i] New York? Joe Flacco was the offense for those games without a consistent running presence. This was one game. Look at all of them.
[/quote]


He played good. A lot of it was Boldin's Yac but I agree, he had to get the ball into the playmakers hands and he did. His receivers helped him and he played a good game.

Browns game was a big game for him and they are a serious threat in this division. I mean they did beat the Bengals. He made some great throws to Boldin.

Steeler's game is always going to be a tough game and he did what we needed to win. Walking out of Pitt with only 1 pick is not too shabby.

What I am talking about is the pass to McClain that's over thrown, the pass to Mason thats over thrown, the Dickson catch that was under thrown, Heap was open yesterday and over thrown.

I just want the best for him and I think he can be a Kurt Warner. Even though the numbers don't show it, I think he has more talent than Matt Ryan. He just needs to find his groove and that's what I am waiting for.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286836002' post='505374']
Well if you read ONE of my posts in this thread you would realize that I don't hate Flacco and that I actually complimented him on the plays he made with his feet. And if you can back peddle 15 yards on a play, you should be able to throw it away. The coaching staff didn't put him in a good position there but like I said, He did end up making some plays with his feet.

Right now Joe is doing a great job being a game manager. But if that's the case why did we just bring in Boldin, Stallworth and TJ if we just want him to manage the games?

Joe was a great part of our play off runs but a lot of that had to do with our Bread and Butter, aka Ray Rice and our defense.

No one here is saying start Bulger or Troy Smith should be the starter, we are simply stating that Flacco needs to play better with the talent surrounding him.

The best part of your retort was that you comment on how bad Clayton was last year. Isn't that a little hypocritical of you to say since the QB has to actually target him and throw to his side?

Joe will be fine. Joe is our QB. Everyone understands that. I guess you guys just skim these things so I will make it clear.

[b]We are winning games. It's great. Joe is managing games. But after 2 years of being in Cam Cameron's system, after having Hue Jackson and Jim Zorn mentor you, after all of the OTA's and offseasons, after all the weapons we gave him, I want to see a little more in his 3rd season from him than the performance he has given through 5 weeks.[/b]

[b]That's All. No one is calling him bad. No one is saying he is a bust. But I feel like there is no more excuses, he just needs to play better football and make better throws.[/b]
[/quote]

Heh. Okay man. Have it your way. Quarterbacks are supposed to manage the game. That's like, part of their job. If you're using game manager as a way to say he's not taking over games, then we'll have to just agree to disagree, just as I'm sure the Steelers would disagree with as well. We had a quarterback who really was just a game manager, and his name was Trent Dilfer. Do you think Trent was better than Flacco?

And you're right, Flacco didn't single-handedly take us to the playoffs two consecutive years. But there are also a plethora of quarterbacks we could've slid into Joe's spot, and we wouldn't have made it, like our former back up. Ray is good when Joe is good, and when the O-Line is good. He said it himself last night in his presser.

My point is that Joe will ALWAYS need to play better, just like the rest of the team. They're never going to be perfect, and are always going to make mistakes because they're human. There is always going to be room for improvement, and that's it. But nitpicking a good performance in a game where we blew out the other team just seems like taking Joe and the team in general for granted, and also taking away the fact that despite the talent we've obtained there is talent on the opposition's side too. It's easy to sit back, watch the games and say, 'COME ON JOE, MAKE BETTER THROWS!'. What do you say when he does make a good throw?

[rlh445]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1286836038' post='505375']
People forget the horrible era when our QB position was a revolving door of stink. Some more in addition to the ones you named: Boller, Redman, Wright grrr I'm getting mad just thinking about it!
[/quote]

Hehehe, yea, that was the point of my post. It's not that they forgot, because let's face it, there is no way to forget the travesty that was the Ravens starting QB position for yeeeeeeeeears. They just weren't Ravens fans at that time.

[Alexir]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1286836564' post='505379']
They were missed blocks, botched blocks, had nothing to do with the allignment the defense was in. It had everything to do with our OL and, namely, Ed Dickson getting beat. He wasn't "backpedaling", he was scanning the field, on a poorly designed play with no one open, when he was sacked pretty abruptly.

Maybe you need to watch again - [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101001/2010/REG5/broncos@ravens#tab:watch"]LINK[/url]

Chalk that one up to the guy who drew up / called that play. Not the guy who ran it.
[/quote]

Your link doesn't show that play but Yeah I remember how it happened...I agree, it was a horrible call by Cam BUT he could of called an audible, thrown it away, etc.

[berad]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286836571' post='505380']
He played good. A lot of it was Boldin's Yac but I agree, he had to get the ball into the playmakers hands and he did. His receivers helped him and he played a good game.

Browns game was a big game for him and they are a serious threat in this division. I mean they did beat the Bengals. He made some great throws to Boldin.

Steeler's game is always going to be a tough game and he did what we needed to win. Walking out of Pitt with only 1 pick is not too shabby.

What I am talking about is the pass to McClain that's over thrown, the pass to Mason thats over thrown, the Dickson catch that was under thrown, Heap was open yesterday and over thrown.

I just want the best for him and I think he can be a Kurt Warner. Even though the numbers don't show it, I think he has more talent than Matt Ryan. He just needs to find his groove and that's what I am waiting for.
[/quote]

You're right, Joe isn't responsible or deserves credit for any of it...

Specifically the Steelers game, Joe didn't "[do] what we needed to win," he threw a TD strike to TJ Houshmandzadeh in Pittsburgh with less than 40 seconds on the clock after accounting for almost 80% of the offense. If that's "managing a game", so be it...

[Alexir]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1286836594' post='505382']
Heh. Okay man. Have it your way. Quarterbacks are supposed to manage the game. That's like, part of their job. If you're using game manager as a way to say he's not taking over games, then we'll have to just agree to disagree, just as I'm sure the Steelers would disagree with as well. We had a quarterback who really was just a game manager, and his name was Trent Dilfer. Do you think Trent was better than Flacco?

And you're right, Flacco didn't single-handedly take us to the playoffs two consecutive years. But there are also a plethora of quarterbacks we could've slid into Joe's spot, and we wouldn't have made it, like our former back up. Ray is good when Joe is good, and when the O-Line is good. He said it himself last night in his presser.

My point is that Joe will ALWAYS need to play better, just like the rest of the team. They're never going to be perfect, and are always going to make mistakes because they're human. There is always going to be room for improvement, and that's it. But nitpicking a good performance in a game where we blew out the other team just seems like taking Joe and the team in general for granted, and also taking away the fact that despite the talent we've obtained there is talent on the opposition's side too. It's easy to sit back, watch the games and say, 'COME ON JOE, MAKE BETTER THROWS!'. What do you say when he does make a good throw?
[/quote]

I cheer him on when he makes a good throw! The fact that you are ignorant to the fact that he is over throwing his receivers on short yardage throws is just cracking me up. You act like I am nitpicking, when I am just commenting on what he is doing in the game.

I think he will have a monster game in New England. I am excited to watch that game. I know the schedule hasn't been kind to us this year with the defenses that we have faced at their stomping grounds but we are 4-1 and you're right, Flacco has been a key part of that. But like you said, everyone needs to improve. I just feel like on offense, he is that guy that needs to get over the hump so he can take this team to deep play off runs every year.

[Alexir]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1286837187' post='505388']
You're right, Joe isn't responsible or deserves credit for any of it...

Specifically the Steelers game, Joe didn't "[do] what we needed to win," he threw a TD strike to TJ Houshmandzadeh in Pittsburgh with less than 40 seconds on the clock after accounting for almost 80% of the offense. If that's "managing a game", so be it...
[/quote]

I just literally said he did what he needed to do in Pitt and walking out with just 1 pick is a pretty good game. You should read the whole post instead of skimming...

Anyways, Im out. Caps are on.

[berad]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286836758' post='505384']
Your link doesn't show that play but Yeah I remember how it happened...I agree, it was a horrible call by Cam BUT he could of called an audible, thrown it away, etc.
[/quote]

It does show the play, it's a little bit down on the listings. There's no opportunity for him to throw it away, the pass rush was on him within three seconds. The play may have worked if he had more time but, again, that's a play selection error and an execution error for the pass protection.

[berad]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286837301' post='505392']
I just literally said he did what he needed to do in Pitt and walking out with just 1 pick is a pretty good game. You should read the whole post instead of skimming...

Anyways, Im out. Caps are on.
[/quote]

I did read it, I actually expressly quoted that part.

You just gave no credit to Flacco for controlling that game and the offense. "He did what he needed to do" is not the same..

Quite frankly, I don't have to prove you wrong, Joe Flacco has done that, himself.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286833373' post='505334']
haha good to see that you can play the "Leave Brittany Alone" card and in the same breathe say others are too emotional to have a civilized debate when they point out the obvious fallacies in your ideas.

Anyway, so let's forget the past, since apparently it means nothing to anyone. We'll ignore the obvious fact that he played WELL above average as a rookie, and the obvious fact that he played WELL above average as a sophomore. Lets just focus on the first five games of this season.

We'll even break it down, game by game.

Week 1 verse NYJ

20-38 (52.6%) for 248 yards, 0 TD 1 INT, QB rating of 62.2
At first glance, this is the definition of an average to slightly below average game. Well, that is until we compare it to how every other QB that has played the Jets over the past 1 1/4 years has fared against them. Only Brady has played better against them. No other QB has played as well as Flacco did in Week One.
Sorry, when Tom Brady is the only other guy who did better than you against the #1 defense, that is not "average".

Week 2 verse Cincy
A horrible, horrible game that I will not even attempt to justify.
Below average, even when we consider that it was tough competition.

Week 3 verse Cleveland
22 of 31 for 262 yards (71%), 3 TD 0 INT, 128.7 QB rating

Does that look "average" to you? Really?
Wait, let me guess, it's "just" the Browns right? So if that was "average", that means every other qb should be posting those numbers against Cleveland too. Oh wait...let me go see how Carson Palmer did against them...

Week 4 verse the Steelers
24 of 37 (65%) for 256 yards, 1 TD 1 INT, 82.7 QB rating

Plus the game winning, come from behind drive. In Pittsburgh's house. That's something an average QB can do, right?


Week 5 verse the Broncs
14 of 25 for 196 yards (56%), 0 TD 0 INT, 1 rushing TD, 81.4 QB rating

Hey, you got this one! He was, all things considered, pretty average today.


His season totals:


57.1% completion, 5 TD 6 INT and a 72.1 QB rating.
Yes, those stats are average. Those stats are also based on five games, which means the one poor game he had all year completely skews those stats.

If we look at the other four games besides the Cincy game, his numbers are 61% completion, 5 TDs, 2 INT and a QB rating of 88.75.
Now can you find it in your heart to forgive Flacco for having one crap game, and looking at his entire body of work against two of the most vicious defenses in the league?

He's not average, and I highly doubt any argument you bring forth will change my opinion.
[/quote]

Notice that Alexir didn't even pay attention to flynismo's highly relevant point; that if you remove the Bengals game from his total stats, his numbers look well above average. That game skews his statistics, and it was the second game of the year.

When did people get the idea that we were going add two receivers and a QB coach, and Flacco was going to instantly morph into the greatest of all time? Jim Zorn barely had a chance to do anything at all before people were calling for Bulger!

Btw flynismo, just to add to your point, Flacco also threw a great TD pass to Todd Heap in the Jets game, dropped/defended. He threw the pass that caused Housh to draw PI, which we got our TD out of. There were at least 50 more yards of PI penalties that he deserves some credit for. And we got a TD out of the PI call on Mason yesterday.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286837301' post='505392']
I just literally said he did what he needed to do in Pitt and walking out with just 1 pick is a pretty good game. You should read the whole post instead of skimming...

Anyways, Im out. Caps are on.
[/quote]

Thank goodness.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286836002' post='505374']<br />Well if you read ONE of my posts in this thread you would realize that I don't hate Flacco and that I actually complimented him on the plays he made with his feet. And if you can back peddle 15 yards on a play, you should be able to throw it away. The coaching staff didn't put him in a good position there but like I said, He did end up making some plays with his feet.<br /><br />Right now Joe is doing a great job being a game manager. But if that's the case why did we just bring in Boldin, Stallworth and TJ if we just want him to manage the games?<br /><br />Joe was a great part of our play off runs but a lot of that had to do with our Bread and Butter, aka Ray Rice and our defense.<br /><br />No one here is saying start Bulger or Troy Smith should be the starter, we are simply stating that Flacco needs to play better with the talent surrounding him.<br /><br />The best part of your retort was that you comment on how bad Clayton was last year. Isn't that a little hypocritical of you to say since the QB has to actually target him and throw to his side?<br /><br />Joe will be fine. Joe is our QB. Everyone understands that. I guess you guys just skim these things so I will make it clear.<br /><br /><b>We are winning games. It's great. Joe is managing games. But after 2 years of being in Cam Cameron's system, after having Hue Jackson and Jim Zorn mentor you, after all of the OTA's and offseasons, after all the weapons we gave him, I want to see a little more in his 3rd season from him than the performance he has given through 5 weeks.</b> <br /><br /><b>That's All. No one is calling him bad. No one is saying he is a bust.  But I feel like there is no more excuses, he just needs to play better football and make better throws.</b><br />[/quote]

i understand what you personally are saying. I'm not lumping you into the flacco hater category.

But i am stilll disagreeing with your assessment of him, because he is not simply a game manager. A game manager is just football speak for "dont screw up". You dont rely on a game manager to win games. In the Jets game, i think flacco played game manager. But in the four ensuing games, we leaned on him to win us the game.

And when we look at flacco's entire career, he has been so far ahead of the curve that its not even funny. He has no business being as good as he is this early in his career. I simply do not see how that can even reasonably debated. I dont see anything average about his contributions to our team so far.
,,,,

[1/28/01]

You know we're a pampered bunch when we're 4-1 and we (well, you guys) are fighting (yes, fighting) about our QB's play.....here we come Pats!

[IMissMattStover]

I hear this stuff quite frequently around Gainesville. I support Flacco. He has an incredible arm and great reads, his biggest issue is just confidence in my opinion. He seems before every pass to sort of doubt himself, and he hesitates on the throw. I think some more time in the NFL will build him up, and im confidant he will be a star in the near future.

[ravenanchors]

Alexir seems to understand the game of football from the standpoint of "Fantasy Football" where the way to determine if a player is any good is you look at the stats.

That is not how real football works and thats not how teams win games.
This whole argument has been the Joe's stats are not good enough.

The stats for players on the Ravens team will not be great, because each player sacrifices some stats so the team wins. The receivers in the Denver game sacrificed so the team could run the clock out with the running game.

Boldin 1 catch
TJ 2 Catches
Joe has fewer throwing yards

[flynismo]

Okay, well this is kinda strange to debate, so allow me to just leave this thread with my final thoughts (if Springer can do it, so can I dammit)...Hopefully, we can all at least agree that in his 2+ seasons here, Flacco has show us more than enough to believe that his future is promising. The worst case scenario in my opinion is that he'll spend his career as a matt hassellbeck type player: very good, reliable and may even win the occasional game for you. The best case scanario is that, dare I say it, he becomes an elite quartback, one that dominates like few others. He has it in him to be that guy. It is a matter of gaining experience and developing a rapport with his recievers, and continuing to take two steps forward after taking a step back.Just remember fellas, when we drafted him, we knew he was starting at a disadvantage due to the college and division he played in. We knew he was going to take a litttle time to mature and adjust to the nfl.And that makes his success so much more amazing. He is far ahead of what you could reasonably expect of him. Now I want serve up some criticism of my own, hopefully that will get me in the good graces of some of my fellow posters haha...Flacco is quite good at identifying blitzes. However, he needs to read and decipher defenses better. That is something that will only come with experience...and a lot of it.A lot of people say flacco's mechanics need refinement, including announcers. I dont necessarily agree. Flacco has tremendous arm strength that lets him get away with throwing off his back foot, for example. I dont think it really effects his accuracy much either. I think the reason why flaccos throws are unbelievable (in both the good and bad sense of the word) is due to his anticipation and on the fly adjustments that he makes. What I mean is, he appears to try to read the D and guesses what will happen...hence the reason he seems to lock on to his target. When he guesses right, he doesn't need to make any mental or physical adjustments, and he is simply amazingly accurate when he knows what to do and when to do it. But when he guesses wrong, he has to adjust, and to me, I think that is where he struggles. Sometimes he extends the play with his feet and often has success doing so. Other times, he just loses focus and throws the ball without thinking fast enough.Basically, I think it all comes down to flacco's analysis of defenses. When he gets that down, and believe me he will, this thread is going to look pretty silly.You can only expect so much from a guy who hasnt even played 40 nfl games yet.

[Ravenslifer]

Flacco needs to play better? Following that logic, the Steelers should have benched Roethlisberger in 2005, when he threw for less than 2500 yards and only 17 TDs. Or 2008, his 5th season, when he threw 17TDs and 15 INTS. Oh, that's right, the Steelers won the superbowl during BOTH of those seasons. Look at Brady's stats during his superbowl wins. Okay, but nothing spectacular. We have one of the best rushing attacks in football, and when we get big leads we run the ball. You want something more important, look at the number of comebacks that Joe has led in the 4th quarter already. Not many were successful, true, but now with our receivers that will change. Now look at Roethlisberger's 4th quarter comebacks. That's what Joe can do. As far as him regressing, do you people not realize that three of the first four teams we played this season will probably end up in the top five total defenses in all of the NFL by season's end? And that all of our tough games (Jets, Bengals, Steelers) were on the road? Conversely, Sanchez (who every Jet and Ravens fan seems to want to compare to Flacco) Played against the Dolphins, Patriots, and Bills, not exactly the cream of the crop defensively. I care about winning, and Flacco is a winner. End of story. I don't want a Dan Marino, tons of statistics and no ring.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286836571' post='505380']
He played good. A lot of it was Boldin's Yac but I agree, he had to get the ball into the playmakers hands and he did. His receivers helped him and he played a good game.

Browns game was a big game for him and they are a serious threat in this division. I mean they did beat the Bengals. He made some great throws to Boldin.

Steeler's game is always going to be a tough game and he did what we needed to win. Walking out of Pitt with only 1 pick is not too shabby.

What I am talking about is the pass to McClain that's over thrown, the pass to Mason thats over thrown, the Dickson catch that was under thrown, Heap was open yesterday and over thrown.

I just want the best for him and I think he can be a Kurt Warner. Even though the numbers don't show it, I think he has more talent than Matt Ryan. He just needs to find his groove and that's what I am waiting for.
[/quote]
YAC? I can understand saying YAC yards have alot to do with a win, if Boldin is running through tackles and across the field setting up blockers downfield...but Boldin had no one around him for his big gain catches, and as when he did catch the balls he had few actual YAC yards. There is no doubt he struggles with a touch pass, and hes at his best when he sets his feet, squares his shoulders and throws a rope, but Joe was making our offense go for the Jets and Steelers game without a doubt.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286836273' post='505377']
I Watched the game. I haven't even read the play by play or box score. Those guys were coming after him but like I just said, If you can back peddle 15 yards and take a snap, there are more options you can do.

Intentional Grounding would of saved 5 yards. Falling down would of saved more yardage. [b]Calling an audible by looking at the coverage would have done more.[/b]

There are always gonna be dropped balls but the ratio of spectacular catches to dropped balls is in heavy favor of spectacular catches.
[/quote]

Cam would have spanked him lol.

[cursona pirate]

This is like some war zone.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286842842' post='505472']
Okay, well this is kinda strange to debate, so allow me to just leave this thread with my final thoughts (if Springer can do it, so can I dammit)...Hopefully, we can all at least agree that in his 2+ seasons here, Flacco has show us more than enough to believe that his future is promising. The worst case scenario in my opinion is that he'll spend his career as a matt hassellbeck type player: very good, reliable and may even win the occasional game for you. The best case scanario is that, dare I say it, he becomes an elite quartback, one that dominates like few others. He has it in him to be that guy. It is a matter of gaining experience and developing a rapport with his recievers, and continuing to take two steps forward after taking a step back.Just remember fellas, when we drafted him, we knew he was starting at a disadvantage due to the college and division he played in. We knew he was going to take a litttle time to mature and adjust to the nfl.And that makes his success so much more amazing. He is far ahead of what you could reasonably expect of him. Now I want serve up some criticism of my own, hopefully that will get me in the good graces of some of my fellow posters haha...Flacco is quite good at identifying blitzes. However, he needs to read and decipher defenses better. That is something that will only come with experience...and a lot of it.A lot of people say flacco's mechanics need refinement, including announcers. I dont necessarily agree. Flacco has tremendous arm strength that lets him get away with throwing off his back foot, for example. I dont think it really effects his accuracy much either. I think the reason why flaccos throws are unbelievable (in both the good and bad sense of the word) is due to his anticipation and on the fly adjustments that he makes. What I mean is, he appears to try to read the D and guesses what will happen...hence the reason he seems to lock on to his target. When he guesses right, he doesn't need to make any mental or physical adjustments, and he is simply amazingly accurate when he knows what to do and when to do it. But when he guesses wrong, he has to adjust, and to me, I think that is where he struggles. Sometimes he extends the play with his feet and often has success doing so. Other times, he just loses focus and throws the ball without thinking fast enough.Basically, I think it all comes down to flacco's analysis of defenses. When he gets that down, and believe me he will, this thread is going to look pretty silly.You can only expect so much from a guy who hasnt even played 40 nfl games yet.
[/quote]

I disagree I'm not gonna go out on the limb and say I'm looking at a 15 year QB here..because I still feel like I'm looking at more of a game managing Qb that can easily be replaced...I still also feel this defense is more responsible for more wins in these 3 years then Flacco is...don't get me wrong I feel like he's made some progress in these first 5 games but imo he still has a lot to work on..

[flynismo]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1286851156' post='505593']<br />I disagree I'm not gonna go out on the limb and say I'm looking at a 15 year QB here..because I still feel like I'm looking at more of a game managing Qb that can easily be replaced...I still also feel this defense is more responsible for more wins in these 3 years then Flacco is...don't get me wrong I feel like he's made some progress in these first 5 games but imo he still has a lot to work on..<br />[/quote]

the defense probably has won more games for us. Would you expect any different from a qb in his rookie/second year and the defense is as dominant as ours?

Which makes me realize something else. Why is it that snachez is worshipped but flacco is criticised? Seriously. Sanchez is no where near flacco's level, yet everyone is so smitten with him.