MERGED: Flacco Needs to Play Better

[yakraven]

Some of you guys really need to stop making comments when you're still drinking!(lol) I mean seriously - his first 8 throws he has 6 different receivers. They finally make some adjustments and get pressure on him and so he makes a good run, runs out of the pocket and throws the ball away. Where were the ints?, the sacks? When the open receiver wasn't there, he over threw the receiver. I think if you go and look at successful QBs, they throw the ball away a lot! There were also some drop balls, especially the one to Mase where he got nailed from the back after going up over the defender and catching the ball. Q drops one! "they took the ball out of his hands ...." Rice "finally" gets started running. So after everyone asking where our running game is and when we unleash it, it's because Flacco cooled off?! Joe needs to stop throwing off his back foot, I agree, but I seriously don't see the need or the reason for all the hating on Flacco

[ravenanchors]

The game plan was to come out throwing and gain a lead and then use the run game to take time off the clock and keep the football out of Denvers hands.

The game plan worked. The Ravens didn't go the the run because FLacco was playing poorly.

Flacco has the skills to take the Ravens to the playoffs and win.
All this nit-picking is a waste of time.

Show a positive attitude and celebrate the win.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='yakraven' timestamp='1286806484' post='504933']
Some of you guys really need to stop making comments when you're still drinking!(lol) I mean seriously - his first 8 throws he has 6 different receivers. They finally make some adjustments and get pressure on him and so he makes a good run, runs out of the pocket and throws the ball away. Where were the ints?, the sacks? When the open receiver wasn't there, he over threw the receiver. I think if you go and look at successful QBs, they throw the ball away a lot! There were also some drop balls, especially the one to Mase where he got nailed from the back after going up over the defender and catching the ball. Q drops one! "they took the ball out of his hands ...." Rice "finally" gets started running. So after everyone asking where our running game is and when we unleash it, it's because Flacco cooled off?! Joe needs to stop throwing off his back foot, I agree, but[b] I seriously don't see the need or the reason for all the hating on Flacco[/b]
[/quote]

Hating on Flacco? this is a discussion about how Joe has been playing, if you don't know what constructive criticism is then get out.

[hammer]

At least a couple times in every game (more than a couple in Cin), the following happens in sequence;

[b]1. The O-Line pocket collapses like a N.O. Levy (No Pun or humor Intended).
2. Flacco flees the pocket moving backwards at a right or left angle
3. The play becomes improvisional in nature and Flacco's indecisiveness throws off his thowing mechanics and the timing of the recievers pattern adjustments.
4. If you add in his height and long gait, Flacco struggles to collect his feet under him and make an accurate throw.
5. He ends up throwing inaccurately off his back foot.[/b]


Ok, with that being acknowledged and said, here is the deal.

[b]1. All....and I mean ALL QB's struggle when the 0-line collapses like a N.O. Levy.
2. All ....and I mean ALL QB's who have mobility, MUST use that skill to either extend the play inthose circumstances or they have the option of throwing the ball away.
3. ALL ...and I mean ALL QB's need recievers who can consistently get separation when plays break down. And the QB and the reciever MUST know each other well enough to make pattern adjustments on the fly (Manning and Wayne, Brady and Moss, Rivers and Floyd, etc).
4. Familiarity with recievers allows All QB's to get their timing mechanics and footwork down to a science. All tall QB's need more time to get this down pat.
5. It's just going to take a bit more time for Joe to learn how to collect his body under his own control and not throw off his back foot.[/b]

Finally, Joe is right where he needs to be in his progression. The Cleveland game and the following Pittsburgh game told me something I wanted to know about Joe. I wanted to know if "He is a WINNER." Joe's progression on the field has shown me that it is in him. He has what it takes. We just need to allow him to do it.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286806975' post='504941']
The game plan was to come out throwing and gain a lead and then use the run game to take time off the clock and keep the football out of Denvers hands.

The game plan worked. [b]The Ravens didn't go the the run because FLacco was playing poorly.[/b]

Flacco has the skills to take the Ravens to the playoffs and win.
All this nit-picking is a waste of time.

Show a positive attitude and celebrate the win.
[/quote]

I'm happy with a win, but rolling a soft one dimensional team is one thing, getting to the Superbowl is something entirely different. We live or die by Flacco in the playoffs, is it too much to want him to be better? (that's rhetorical by the way, for those of you who think everyone should subscribe to the purple glasses hive mind mentality)

[AsianRice]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1286808365' post='504967']
Hating on Flacco? this is a discussion about how Joe has been playing, if you don't know what constructive criticism is then get out.
[/quote]
I think the thread is merged by many positive, negative, and constructive comments, so it may turn into a misunderstanding post. It's more than 8 pages from several different post so it's hard to read all of it.

It's great that most of us criticized Joe for his best.

[BloodRaven]

People say Joe can't throw on the run because his height stifles his mechanics, yet we've all seen Ben Roethlisberger do it, and regularly. The only difference between them is one inch in height and 3lb.

[ravenanchors]

The fact is the Ravens have played the 2 best defenses in the league and won.
The fact is the Ravens have played the best Offense in the league and won.

So the fact is the Ravens have a proven tract record and is quality enough to make it to the SB.
The Ravens are one of the best teams in the league and all the winy comments are not going to get the Ravens to the superbowl.

Because, the coaches and flacco are not hanging on your everyword to make their decisions.

And all the winy comments are about miniscule problems that don't make a hill of beans difference in the outcome of the game.

All wining does is show the negative attitude of the people on this board.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286810997' post='505023']
The fact is the Ravens have played [b]2 of the[/b] best defenses in the league and won.
The fact is the Ravens have played the best Offense in the league and won.

So the fact is the Ravens have a proven tract record and is quality enough to make it to the SB.
The Ravens are one of the best teams in the league and all the winy comments are not going to get the Ravens to the superbowl.

Because, the coaches and flacco are not hanging on your everyword to make their decisions.

And all the winy comments are about miniscule problems that don't make a hill of beans difference in the outcome of the game.

All wining does is show the negative attitude of the people on this board.
[/quote]
Fixed....I think we're somewhere in there as well!

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1286810034' post='504998']
People say Joe can't throw on the run because his height stifles his mechanics, yet we've all seen Ben Roethlisberger do it, and regularly. The only difference between them is one inch in height and 3lb.
[/quote]
So we can compare Joe to Ben, but not Peyton? Double Standard.
Peyton didn't throw a TD, made a lot of bad throws, Colts still won. Think anyone is really worried about Peyton? No. Bottom line, FLacco is young, developing, but a solid Qb. Relax.
Believe me, Cameron and Zorn will hound Flacco enough about his faulty footwork and getting better throwing on the run. but he played more than good enough to win us a game againt a good Denver team.

[Alexir]

All of you need to stop acting like "LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE", put down your purple koolaid, and let go of Joe Flacco's jock strap.

He is playing fine, as in average. How some of you said that was his greatest game made me laugh my butt off! How can you seriously say that?!?! I think his Vikings games last year was his greatest game he has ever played. I've watched this guy in College when he played against Towson. I thought it was cool we drafted him but I want a little bit more. Like I said, if you are fine with average play with the receiving threats we have, then to each his/her own.

Yes he did end up completeing 56% of his passes but that came when he couldn't complete anything in the second half and had to do short check down passes.

Again, Im not asking him to be Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers, I just want him to be more effective with the weapons we brought in for him. I wanna see more accurate passing and better timing. I want him to succeed.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1286811244' post='505031']
So we can compare Joe to Ben, but not Peyton? Double Standard.
Peyton didn't throw a TD, made a lot of bad throws, Colts still won. Think anyone is really worried about Peyton? No. Bottom line, FLacco is young, developing, but a solid Qb. Relax.
Believe me, Cameron and Zorn will hound Flacco enough about his faulty footwork and getting better throwing on the run. but he played more than good enough to win us a game againt a good Denver team.
[/quote]

Joe's athleticism and speed compares to Ben, not Peyton, remember when Flacco went deep for a Troy Smith bomb?

It's no secret Flacco isn't elite, but thats not to say he's terrible, because he's not. I know QB's like Peyton, Brady, Brees, Roethlisber etc will also have bad games/bad drives too, they just happen a less often. Consistency. Nobody is asking for a 50TD season, just to be more consistent.

[Alexir]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286810997' post='505023']
The fact is the Ravens have played the 2 best defenses in the league and won.
The fact is the Ravens have played the best Offense in the league and won.

So the fact is the Ravens have a proven tract record and is quality enough to make it to the SB.
The Ravens are one of the best teams in the league and all the winy comments are not going to get the Ravens to the superbowl.

Because, the coaches and flacco are not hanging on your everyword to make their decisions.

And all the winy comments are about miniscule problems that don't make a hill of beans difference in the outcome of the game.

All wining does is show the negative attitude of the people on this board.
[/quote]

No one is saying we aren't a good team, I think our record shows that. Since you aren't getting the point, I will break it down as simple as I can for you.

True or False: When Flacco overthrows a Receiver 10 yards away from him, I say "Come on dude, you gotta make that throw".

[lgcs27288]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1286747999' post='504127']
We were winning in 08 and 09 as well, you know, when the Steelers and Saints lifted the Lombardi.

If our own players expect a Superbowl win, why shouldn't we?
[/quote]

If we are continually winning, I don't see how anyone's expectations could be different. Players or fans.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286795207' post='504805']How about someone start a forum for "Lets thank Flacco for the Win"[/quote]


now that's probably the best idea I've heard all day. Not going to happen of course, but anyway...

to clarify my little rant, it's not so much that people want him putting up huge production, it's that people break down every play looking for what they think he did wrong. You can do that with any qb that ever played. I mean I lived in Tampa when I was a kid...did you know that the locals used to say some of the same things about Marino that they say about Flacco? Sometimes he held the ball too long, sometimes he didn't react well to the blitz, he couldn't extend plays with his feet. Of course, that happens to just about any QB...just ask McNabb

And yes, for the brighter bulbs who read that, I did just compare a small group of our fans to Philly fans

[1/28/01]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286820907' post='505180']
now that's probably the best idea I've heard all day. Not going to happen of course, but anyway...

to clarify my little rant, it's not so much that people want him putting up huge production, it's that people break down every play looking for what they think he did wrong. You can do that with any qb that ever played. I mean I lived in Tampa when I was a kid...did you know that the locals used to say some of the same things about Marino that they say about Flacco? Sometimes he held the ball too long, sometimes he didn't react well to the blitz, he couldn't extend plays with his feet. Of course, that happens to just about any QB...just ask McNabb

[b]And yes, for the brighter bulbs who read that, I did just compare a small group of our fans to Philly fans[/b]
[/quote]
Well put and hilarious! We are literally the best team in the AFC at this very minute!

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286813967' post='505062']<br />No one is saying we aren't a good team, I think our record shows that. Since you aren't getting the point, I will break it down as simple as I can for you.<br /><br />True or False: When Flacco overthrows a Receiver 10 yards away from him, I say &quot;Come on dude, you gotta make that throw&quot;.<br />[/quote]

I say that.

But when Flacco throws the game winning TD in Pittsburgh, I also say "That's our boy".

Obviously, we are a GREAT team. As of today, the best in the league. Flacco is a big reason for it.

[ROH522155]

I came onto the board yesterday after the win and I couldnt believe it when I saw this topic....This is just ridiculous guys

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286813592' post='505058']<br />All of you need to stop acting like &quot;LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE&quot;, put down your purple koolaid, and let go of Joe Flacco's jock strap.<br /><br />He is playing fine, as in average. How some of you said that was his greatest game made me laugh my butt off! How can you seriously say that?!?! I think his Vikings games last year was his greatest game he has ever played. I've watched this guy in College when he played against Towson. I thought it was cool we drafted him but I want a little bit more. Like I said, if you are fine with average play with the receiving threats we have, then to each his/her own.<br /><br />Yes he did end up completeing 56% of his passes but that came when he couldn't complete anything in the second half and had to do short check down passes.<br /><br />Again, Im not asking him to be Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers, I just want him to be more effective with the weapons we brought in for him. I wanna see more accurate passing and better timing. I want him to succeed.[/quote]


Is "Leave Brittany Alone" the only retort you can come up with?
And yes, let's talk about these weapons we surrounded Flacco with. Are we talking about the same weapons who have been dropping passes left and right? TJ is the main one, Mason has dropped a few, even Boldin dropped a gimme yesterday. Why aren't you <[i]all over them[/i]> for making Flacco look bad? Shouldn't we be starting threads evaluating every concievable aspect of their game and trying to figure out what we can do to improve it?

How about Rice, who has been WILDLY inconsistent this year, far more so than Flacco has been? Why aren't you talking about that?

How about Gaither, who has yet to even hit the field?


When you guys present a real argument about why Flacco is "average" or why he isn't good enough, maybe then people will lose the Leave Brittany Alone complexion.

[flynismo]

In this particular thread, the critiscism of Joe has mainly been constructive. But what I am talking about is contained mainly in other threads. And it's funny that people are mentioning fantasy football. Why? My fantasy leagues are with RTsports.com. They use KFFL.com on their player feeds. I was reading the notes from KFFL.com on Flacco, and they made mention of how Baltimore fans are unhappy with Flacco. How we "clamored" for benching Flacco in favor of Bulger. Now of course, it isn't accurate to portray the entire fan base that way. But when those very same remarks are repeated ad nauseum here (although the Start Bulger rants have cooled down, for now), it's no surprise that I read that report from KFFL.com. It makes us look stupid to see that.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286820907' post='505180']
now that's probably the best idea I've heard all day. Not going to happen of course, but anyway...

to clarify my little rant, it's not so much that people want him putting up huge production, it's that people break down every play looking for what they think he did wrong. You can do that with any qb that ever played. I mean I lived in Tampa when I was a kid...did you know that the locals used to say some of the same things about Marino that they say about Flacco? Sometimes he held the ball too long, sometimes he didn't react well to the blitz, he couldn't extend plays with his feet. Of course, that happens to just about any QB...just ask McNabb

And yes, for the brighter bulbs who read that, I did just compare a small group of our fans to Philly fans
[/quote]

This is exactly my point. That's why fans supporting Flacco DO have a right to say "relax" to all of the nitpickers/whiners. We visit the forum after a satisfying victory, and we have to go through the same crap all over again.

No QB is currently living up to these expectations of consistent dominance. Flacco is not going to complete every pass. He is not going to throw 40 times in every game. He's going to make mistakes. And every time I see a whiny fan come on here and start dissecting every little thing he does, it makes me question the rationality of some of our fans. The coaches are working with him, your complaints mean NOTHING.

As far as the "third year means everything" theory. Name me a quarterback who peaked in his third year, and showed everything he had to give. Go ahead. You find me a great QB besides Tom frickin' Brady who didn't have fans whining and providing their "insight" after every little mistake he made. You think Roethlisberger didn't have fans like this? Go talk to a Steelers fan, they had to deal with it even after he won the first Super Bowl! It really wasn't until 2008, Ben's fifth year, that the whining and nitpicking subsided.

Flacco basically played one half! He handed the ball off for the second half. And I remember more than one drop, so stop talking about 58% completion in ONE GAME as if that's significant. It's also annoying when detractors patronize Flacco supporters, as if we're saying that he's perfect and "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!" No one said that he's perfect. Your complaints just go way too far in judging him, and dissecting EVERY LITTLE MISTAKE. Frankly, it's getting obnoxious.

[ravenanchors]

My attitude is "So What".
In every game there will be something that goes wrong.

The errors that can be attributed to Flacco are minor and they do not threaten the outcome of the game and they are no reason to complain. You are really grasping at straws.

The last two games Flacco has shown that he can overcome penalties and errors, create plays with his feet, keep drives alive and score.
Flacco has outstanding talent, Timing, Accuracy, arm strength, intelligence

So what if he doesn't have a ballet dancers feet.
So what if he overthrew a receiver, (from his perspective it was probably the right thing to do)

[flynismo]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1286811244' post='505031']<br />So we can compare Joe to Ben, but not Peyton? Double Standard.<br />Peyton didn't throw a TD, made a lot of bad throws, Colts still won. Think anyone is really worried about Peyton? No. Bottom line, FLacco is young, developing, but a solid Qb. Relax.<br />Believe me, Cameron and Zorn will hound Flacco enough about his faulty footwork and getting better throwing on the run. but he played more than good enough to win us a game againt a good Denver team.<br />[/quote]

See, I don't have a problem with that. I have HUGE expectations out of Flacco, I expect him to be elite, not just a very good qb. The difference is, I'm not expecting him to be elite after just over 2 seasons in the league.
But to quote my all time favorite sports hero, Ric Flair..."To be the man, you gotta beat the man. WOOOOO!!!"
Point is, the fact that people even make that comparison is a huge compliment and acknowledgement of Flacco's ability, whether that is what is intended or not. Go visit the Cards or Brownie's forums and see if anyone is comparing their QB's to Ben and Peyton

[Alexir]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286822019' post='505199']
Is "Leave Brittany Alone" the only retort you can come up with?
And yes, let's talk about these weapons we surrounded Flacco with. Are we talking about the same weapons who have been dropping passes left and right? TJ is the main one, Mason has dropped a few, even Boldin dropped a gimme yesterday. Why aren't you hanging on their nuts for making Flacco look bad? Shouldn't we be starting threads evaluating every concievable aspect of their game and trying to figure out what we can do to improve it?

How about Rice, who has been WILDLY inconsistent this year, far more so than Flacco has been? Why aren't you talking about that?

How about Gaither, who has yet to even hit the field?


When you guys present a real argument about why Flacco is "average" or why he isn't good enough, maybe then people will lose the Leave Brittany Alone complexion.
[/quote]

Rice has been injured and not getting touches. I will say TJ needs to be quiet and catch the ball when it hits his hand but you have no ground to stand on if you think Boldin and Mason are responsible for Flacco's low completion percentage.

I did bring up a real arguement about Flacco playing average, his numbers speak for themselves, taking a sack on 4th and inches speaks for itself, throwing off his back foot speaks for itself, receivers coming back for underthrown passes speaks for itself.

We are 4-1. I am happy. Besides the Bengals game Flacco has played well. Not great, just well.

Like I've said before, if you feel like I am bad mouthing your role model/man crush, sorry that you are ok with average play. I know he has the talent to do better and I think Cam and Zorn need to work with him so one day he can go to a pro bowl, life a lombardi or give a speech in Canton. I want rivals like Bengals and Steelers have to game plan towards Flacco like we do against Big Ben.

Im merely pointing out how razzled he looks sometimes when he snaps the ball and how he isn't that accurate this year. That's all. Like Ive said, he has my respect and I cheer for him and Sunday he made some great plays with his feet and called his own number.

As for Gaither, what is their to say about him? He's either injured or Albert Haynesworth Jr. If you want me to talk about Gaither I will. But this thread title is Flacco Needs to Play Better. Which I didn't start, just commenting on it.

So if you are too emotional to have a civilized debate about Flacco's play this year and what he needs to work on, maybe you should avoid this thread.

[ravenanchors]

"THE SACK" as it will come to be know was not Flacco's Fault.

The coaches made a boneheaded call and sent Ngata into the endzone.
The problem with this play is there was no place else to go with the ball, because the coaches designed the play to go to Ngata or else. After Ngata went down Flacco had nowhere to go with the ball, all he could do was run for his life.

"THE 58 YARD THROW" to Dickison
That ball wasn't underthrown, Flacco just couldn't throw it any further.
Sometimes you just throw the ball up in the air and the receiver has to fight for it. Especially in 1 on 1 situations where the receiver is much taller. It happens all the time.

The reason Flacco's completion percentage isn't higher is because the coaches went to the run game in the second half and Flacco did not have the opportunity to improve his numbers. That was a good call. It was about winning the game and not about stats.

The Ravens came out throwing the ball in the first half. Flacco was 8 of 9 I think. Denver, realizing they had to try and stop FLacco, began double coverage and took away Flacco's options. The coaches are calling the plays, not Flacco. The Ravens coaches realize what Denver is doing, and goes to the Run game.

This was the strategy all along. Come out throwing the ball, get a lead and use the run game to control the ball and take time off the clock.

A completion percentage of 57 and a QB rating of 83 is pretty good for that game.
It is the coaches that read the defense and call the plays. As Cameron said, he game plans and calls the plays and expects Joe and the offense to run those plays.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1286830768' post='505312']<br />Rice has been injured and not getting touches. I will say TJ needs to be quiet and catch the ball when it hits his hand but you have no ground to stand on if you think Boldin and Mason are responsible for Flacco's low completion percentage.<br /><br />I did bring up a real arguement about Flacco playing average, his numbers speak for themselves, taking a sack on 4th and inches speaks for itself, throwing off his back foot speaks for itself, receivers coming back for underthrown passes speaks for itself.<br /><br />We are 4-1. I am happy. Besides the Bengals game Flacco has played well. Not great, just well.<br /><br />Like I've said before, if you feel like I am bad mouthing your role model/man crush, sorry that you are ok with average play. I know he has the talent to do better and I think Cam and Zorn need to work with him so one day he can go to a pro bowl, life a lombardi or give a speech in Canton. I want rivals like Bengals and Steelers have to game plan towards Flacco like we do against Big Ben.<br /><br />Im merely pointing out how razzled he looks sometimes when he snaps the ball and how he isn't that accurate this year. That's all. Like Ive said, he has my respect and I cheer for him and Sunday he made some great plays with his feet and called his own number.<br /><br />As for Gaither, what is their to say about him? He's either injured or Albert Haynesworth Jr. If you want me to talk about Gaither I will. But this thread title is Flacco Needs to Play Better. Which I didn't start, just commenting on it.<br /><br />So if you are too emotional to have a civilized debate about Flacco's play this year and what he needs to work on, maybe you should avoid this thread.<br />[/quote]


haha good to see that you can play the "Leave Brittany Alone" card and in the same breathe say others are too emotional to have a civilized debate when they point out the obvious fallacies in your ideas.

Anyway, so let's forget the past, since apparently it means nothing to anyone. We'll ignore the obvious fact that he played WELL above average as a rookie, and the obvious fact that he played WELL above average as a sophomore. Lets just focus on the first five games of this season.

We'll even break it down, game by game.

Week 1 verse NYJ

20-38 (52.6%) for 248 yards, 0 TD 1 INT, QB rating of 62.2
At first glance, this is the definition of an average to slightly below average game. Well, that is until we compare it to how every other QB that has played the Jets over the past 1 1/4 years has fared against them. Only Brady has played better against them. No other QB has played as well as Flacco did in Week One.
Sorry, when Tom Brady is the only other guy who did better than you against the #1 defense, that is not "average".

Week 2 verse Cincy
A horrible, horrible game that I will not even attempt to justify.
Below average, even when we consider that it was tough competition.

Week 3 verse Cleveland
22 of 31 for 262 yards (71%), 3 TD 0 INT, 128.7 QB rating

Does that look "average" to you? Really?
Wait, let me guess, it's "just" the Browns right? So if that was "average", that means every other qb should be posting those numbers against Cleveland too. Oh wait...let me go see how Carson Palmer did against them...

Week 4 verse the Steelers
24 of 37 (65%) for 256 yards, 1 TD 1 INT, 82.7 QB rating

Plus the game winning, come from behind drive. In Pittsburgh's house. That's something an average QB can do, right?


Week 5 verse the Broncs
14 of 25 for 196 yards (56%), 0 TD 0 INT, 1 rushing TD, 81.4 QB rating

Hey, you got this one! He was, all things considered, pretty average today.


His season totals:


57.1% completion, 5 TD 6 INT and a 72.1 QB rating.
Yes, those stats are average. Those stats are also based on five games, which means the one poor game he had all year completely skews those stats.

If we look at the other four games besides the Cincy game, his numbers are 61% completion, 5 TDs, 2 INT and a QB rating of 88.75.
Now can you find it in your heart to forgive Flacco for having one crap game, and looking at his entire body of work against two of the most vicious defenses in the league?

He's not average, and I highly doubt any argument you bring forth will change my opinion.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286832438' post='505328']<br />&quot;THE SACK&quot; as it will come to be know was not Flacco's Fault.<br /><br />The coaches made a boneheaded call and sent Ngata into the endzone.<br />The problem with this play is there was no place else to go with the ball, because the coaches designed the play to go to Ngata or else.  After Ngata went down Flacco had nowhere to go with the ball, all he could do was run for his life.<br /><br />&quot;THE 58 YARD THROW&quot; to Dickison<br />That ball wasn't underthrown, Flacco just couldn't throw it any further.  <br />Sometimes you just throw the ball up in the air and the receiver has to fight for it.  Especially in 1 on 1 situations where the receiver is much taller.  It happens all the time.<br /><br />The reason Flacco's completion percentage isn't higher is because the coaches went to the run game in the second half and Flacco did not have the opportunity to improve his numbers.  That was a good call.  It was about winning the game and not about stats.<br /><br />The Ravens came out throwing the ball in the first half.  Flacco was 8 of 9 I think.  Denver, realizing they had to try and stop FLacco, began double coverage and took away Flacco's options.  The coaches are calling the plays, not Flacco.  The Ravens coaches realize what Denver is doing, and goes to the Run game.<br /><br />This was the strategy all along.  Come out throwing the ball, get a lead and use the run game to control the ball and take time off the clock.<br /><br />A completion percentage of 57 and a QB rating of 83 is pretty good for that game.<br />It is the coaches that read the defense and call the plays.  As Cameron said, he game plans and calls the plays and expects Joe and the offense to run those plays.<br />[/quote]

1. The sack was certainly not ALL Flacco's fault, but he gets partial blame for it.
2. Actually, Flacco can and has thrown it much further than 58 yards.
He threw a jump ball to our TE, which is what any smart QB would have done. But of course, people will find a way to criticize completing a pass 58 yards down the field. "He should have hit him 60 yards downfield in stride, etc etc etc"
Unless Brady did it of course. Then it was just another shining example of how Brady can make all the throws.

[noy]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1286790896' post='504795']
This is an ad hominem statement if I've ever seen one. If someone has something against what someone else has posted in a thread about Flacco being his worst enemy, and that response has to do with how either A) they have a problem with that assessment or B ) has a problem with why that statement was made then it's certainly not off topic. Sorry, but that's just a poor try at redirection. The only ones with their panties in a bunch are the ones trying to convince the rest of the board that Flacco is wildly inconsistent and this won't last when trying to beat good opponents.....even though Flacco has been beating good opponents all season.

The fact that these guys want Flacco to put up Rivers numbers is notwithstanding, because let's be honest, there are few games where he's going to be allowed to do that, much less figuring in his obvious talent to do so. When Cam said 'shut it down' they shut it down, to great effect. We ran the ball down Denver's throat and I'm not the only to say, 'It's about damn time!,'. It's not a stretch to attack someone's argument in the thread about said argument, and no amount of stupid ad hominem attacks like yours will make that not so.
[/quote]

Thank you! I learned a new concept today!

Wikipedia is known to be an accurate source for factual/logical information, so I decided to look up the "ad hominem" concept you brought up.

[quote]Ad hominem abuse (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to invalidate his or her argument, [b]but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument[/b]. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.

[b]The ad hominem is not always fallacious, for in some instances questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue[/b][/quote]

So tell me, where exactly did I insult anybody's character? The first bolded quote lays out [i]exactly[/i] what I was doing. What is constructive about attacking the criticism of the OP? Nothing. I question the motive of the people attacking him, not their character. Because their actions have no use for the topic being discussed, I made the conclusion that it was really funny they decided to post such things to begin with, extending the debate about a concept they disapprove of.

Let's ask ourselves this question. Why do we have a problem with what the OP is saying? Because we like our QB and think he has done really well? OK, great. Then instead of attacking the OP, [b]how about we argue against the OP's claim to disprove his reasoning[/b]. Doing anything else is uneffective, and a waste of time. I'm sorry you don't get that, but you seem like a pretty sharp guy (I mean...considering you know what ad homenim [i]is[/i]...), so I'll hold out hope for you!

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286820907' post='505180']
to clarify my little rant, it's not so much that people want him putting up huge production, [b]it's that people break down every play looking for what they think he did wrong.[/b] You can do that with any qb that ever played. I mean I lived in Tampa when I was a kid...did you know that the locals used to say some of the same things about Marino that they say about Flacco? Sometimes he held the ball too long, sometimes he didn't react well to the blitz, he couldn't extend plays with his feet. Of course, that happens to just about any QB...just ask McNabb
[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying, I would lie if I said I knew exactly what you were talking about earlier . I understand how this can be really bothersome to people, because there is seemingly no reason for it. However, my reasoning is because I love football, and I don't just love all the TDs but also specific details of the sport. It's the only [i]controlled [/i]environment where one mistake could affect the whole team or outcome of a game, and where the team is only as strong as their weakest link. The slow pace of the game (compared to basketball and soccer, for example) allows for an amazing look and understanding of strategy. In order to understand strategy, you can't just look at the positives, or you'd be a horrbile strategist. The result is the ability to make forecasts about which team's could give the Ravens the most trouble, and which we should smash. I like understanding what is going wrong during the game, and I use the forum to share my ideas. Love me or hate me, I like to think I bring ideas to the table. Just think of me as a devil's advocate, and you'll find me much more bearable.

Also, all you guys do is post about the positives. I'd feel like a blade of grass in a field if I decided to be all "YAY! FLACCO!!". Sure you have silly people criticizing for the sake of being negative, but I always aim to be constructive. I've already laid out what I thought about Flacco in the previous post, just spinning the wheel with the argument over criticism...I guess.

[Alexir]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286833373' post='505334']
haha good to see that you can play the "Leave Brittany Alone" card and in the same breathe say others are too emotional to have a civilized debate when they point out the obvious fallacies in your ideas.

Anyway, so let's forget the past, since apparently it means nothing to anyone. We'll ignore the obvious fact that he played WELL above average as a rookie, and the obvious fact that he played WELL above average as a sophomore. Lets just focus on the first five games of this season.

We'll even break it down, game by game.

Week 1 verse NYJ

20-38 (52.6%) for 248 yards, 0 TD 1 INT, QB rating of 62.2
At first glance, this is the definition of an average to slightly below average game. Well, that is until we compare it to how every other QB that has played the Jets over the past 1 1/4 years has fared against them. Only Brady has played better against them. No other QB has played as well as Flacco did in Week One.
Sorry, when Tom Brady is the only other guy who did better than you against the #1 defense, that is not "average".

Week 2 verse Cincy
A horrible, horrible game that I will not even attempt to justify.
Below average, even when we consider that it was tough competition.

Week 3 verse Cleveland
22 of 31 for 262 yards (71%), 3 TD 0 INT, 128.7 QB rating

Does that look "average" to you? Really?
Wait, let me guess, it's "just" the Browns right? So if that was "average", that means every other qb should be posting those numbers against Cleveland too. Oh wait...let me go see how Carson Palmer did against them...

Week 4 verse the Steelers
24 of 37 (65%) for 256 yards, 1 TD 1 INT, 82.7 QB rating

Plus the game winning, come from behind drive. In Pittsburgh's house. That's something an average QB can do, right?


Week 5 verse the Broncs
14 of 25 for 196 yards (56%), 0 TD 0 INT, 1 rushing TD, 81.4 QB rating

Hey, you got this one! He was, all things considered, pretty average today.


His season totals:


57.1% completion, 5 TD 6 INT and a 72.1 QB rating.
Yes, those stats are average. Those stats are also based on five games, which means the one poor game he had all year completely skews those stats.

If we look at the other four games besides the Cincy game, his numbers are 61% completion, 5 TDs, 2 INT and a QB rating of 88.75.
Now can you find it in your heart to forgive Flacco for having one crap game, and looking at his entire body of work against two of the most vicious defenses in the league?

He's not average, and I highly doubt any argument you bring forth will change my opinion.
[/quote]

In a league of 32 teams, he is Average and you just made that argument by putting up his stats. Is average bad? No, but Im not going to act like he is an Elite QB when he has to knock off the rust.

I honestly believe he played better last year then he did this year.

EDIT: It could be Cam's play calling to a degree but he needs to make better throws. And I dont know what route that's called Fly when you send your TE 58 yards and have him wait for the ball. Is that an 11 Route? [img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_shakehead.GIF[/img]

[Alexir]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286832438' post='505328']
"THE SACK" as it will come to be know was not Flacco's Fault.

The coaches made a boneheaded call and sent Ngata into the endzone.
The problem with this play is there was no place else to go with the ball, because the coaches designed the play to go to Ngata or else. After Ngata went down Flacco had nowhere to go with the ball, all he could do was run for his life.

"THE 58 YARD THROW" to Dickison
That ball wasn't underthrown, Flacco just couldn't throw it any further.
Sometimes you just throw the ball up in the air and the receiver has to fight for it. Especially in 1 on 1 situations where the receiver is much taller. It happens all the time.

The reason Flacco's completion percentage isn't higher is because the coaches went to the run game in the second half and Flacco did not have the opportunity to improve his numbers. That was a good call. It was about winning the game and not about stats.

The Ravens came out throwing the ball in the first half. Flacco was 8 of 9 I think. Denver, realizing they had to try and stop FLacco, began double coverage and took away Flacco's options. The coaches are calling the plays, not Flacco. The Ravens coaches realize what Denver is doing, and goes to the Run game.

This was the strategy all along. Come out throwing the ball, get a lead and use the run game to control the ball and take time off the clock.

A completion percentage of 57 and a QB rating of 83 is pretty good for that game.
It is the coaches that read the defense and call the plays. As Cameron said, he game plans and calls the plays and expects Joe and the offense to run those plays.
[/quote]

The goalline call was stupid but he needs to throw the ball away so the Defense has a chance at a safety or something.

Flacco had the opportunities in the second half but after going 0 for 9, they just had him feeding the ball into Rice's gut.