I Think Housh Should Be Our Starting #2

[neoi78]

look at steelers game. mason has great abilitys. he is our number 1.5 WR. had great catches last sunday

[MagicianCamille]

Mason is far more reliable, and is almost always good for a tough first down grab. I'd much prefer that than a guy who drops most passes that go his way.

[Jabara]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1286487406' post='501411']
Let's just come out and say that all three guys our are #1 WRs. End of story. Because they are in their individual ways.
[/quote]
That's the truth.
The receivers we have aren't being asked to fill the typical roles of a 1, 2 or 3 receiver spot on each play.
You will not see a top CB on our #1 receiver for the entire game. Our team is set up for matchups.
I never liked the 1,2,3 system, because basically they are playing a role on a play, it is not a form of who is the best receiver, and who is 2nd best, etc.
It's about best at a specific role, not a ranking system.
Each position number plays a different role, so you can't compare them, and to rank them is crazy.
They each have their strengths, so they play position roles accordingly. It's not so much a popularity contest.

[hammer]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1286475543' post='501254']
Now I know Mase has consistently overachieved and pulled off amazing feats for us in the past,

[b]False Assumption, Mase may be under-rated, but he is not an overacheiver. Mase is an extremely gifted WR. He has proven that over the years w/ Titans and later w/ Ravens. Nothing hs changed about what he does. that's a fact.[/b]

but is he really better than T.J right now? or is it a loyalty thing?

[b]Answer? Yes, Mase is still better that Housh right now. Not debatable, or even close as far as talent or production. No need to invoke the loyalty or leadership clauses yet. (Ray Ray?) Mase is still [i]"bringing it"[/i] like the younger dudes.[/b]

In my opinion T.J can do everything Mase can, he can run great routes, get separation, make tough catches, is fearless over the middle etc but is bigger, stronger, taller and faster.

[b]Wrong again. TJ can not do everything Mase can do. Only a guy like Darrell Revis has shown he can cover Mase one on one. Secondly, there are very few WRs in the NFL who compares to Mase as a route runner. Yes, TJ is bigger and stronger over the middle, but TJs hands are terribe (leads team in dropped passes by far). And finally, I doubt very seriously that TJ is faster than Mase. Outside of the double move he put on the Steelers DB to winthe game, TJ rarely gets any sort of separaton from the DB.[/b]

What do you guys think?

[b]You "B-Trippin" Dude.[/b] Ha Ha........

[hammer]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1286509654' post='501596']
I don't think it's fair to say TJ has streaky hands based on a bad game. We've all seen him play over the last few years and his hands are as good as anyones.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, with athletes it CAN all happen very quickly, and it is a sad spectacle to see. But we can wait on TJ though. Its still real early.

[Ravensdiciple96]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1286475543' post='501254']
Now I know Mase has consistently overachieved and pulled off amazing feats for us in the past, but is he really better than T.J right now? or is it a loyalty thing? In my opinion T.J can do everything Mase can, he can run great routes, get separation, make tough catches, is fearless over the middle etc but is bigger, stronger, taller and faster.

What do you guys think?
[/quote]

Granted TJ has only been with us a short amount of time, and well Mase has been here a good amount of years. Now with that said, TJ has got to prove he can catch what Joe is going to throw his way. The TD catch against the Steelers should def get him in the mix more, but he has also not caught a good amount of passes that were very catchable. And you know Mase is ol reliable and will catch anything that Joe throws his way. It has got to suck from one stand point to have 3 legit #1s that they have to pick and choose who they want to go to, then again I sure as heck would love to have that problem!

[ravenanchors]

Mason and Boldin are a couple steps ahead of TJ. TJ has the third spot and that is what he deserves, until he can prove that he is as reliable as Mason.
TJ has all this year to get aclimated with the Ravens and improve his ball handling skills.
Next year if TJ stays, he will have an opportunity to unseat Mason or maybe Mason retires and TJ can compete with Stallworth. But right now, TJ does not deserve the number two spot.

There is a reason the receivers are number one thru three. It is playing time. The better receivers get more playing time.

[PuRock]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1286501740' post='501537']
After the Steelers game, Joe finally realizes that he needs to find mismatch and delivers the ball to whoever is open. [/quote]

I surely hope he didn't realize this right now.

[CorvusCorax]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1286543887' post='501742']
I surely hope he didn't realize this right now.
[/quote]

LOL! You would hope he didn't.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1286527609' post='501702']


[b]False Assumption, Mase may be under-rated, but he is not an overacheiver. Mase is an extremely gifted WR. He has proven that over the years w/ Titans and later w/ Ravens. Nothing hs changed about what he does. that's a fact.[/b]

[b]Answer? Yes, Mase is still better that Housh right now. Not debatable, or even close as far as talent or production. No need to invoke the loyalty or leadership clauses yet. (Ray Ray?) Mase is still [i]"bringing it"[/i] like the younger dudes.[/b]

[b]Wrong again. TJ can not do everything Mase can do. Only a guy like Darrell Revis has shown he can cover Mase one on one. Secondly, there are very few WRs in the NFL who compares to Mase as a route runner. Yes, TJ is bigger and stronger over the middle, but TJs hands are terribe (leads team in dropped passes by far). And finally, I doubt very seriously that TJ is faster than Mase. Outside of the double move he put on the Steelers DB to winthe game, TJ rarely gets any sort of separaton from the DB.[/b]

[b]You "B-Trippin" Dude.[/b] Ha Ha........
[/quote]

Thanks for your [b]opinion[/b]

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1286527860' post='501703']<br />Unfortunately, with athletes it CAN all happen very quickly, and it is a sad spectacle to see.  But we can wait on TJ though.  Its still real early.<br />[/quote]

That is so very true, especially once you hit that dreaded age of "30". Like Mason last year. I thought that is exactly what happened to him, and why I was so down on him coming into this season. Fortunately, it looks like Mase just had a few bad games, nothing more to it than that.

and likewise with TJ. Until proven otherwise, he of all people deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to that game in Cincy.

[PurpleChaos]

Saw the writing on the wall with this one when we brought him in. 3 guys that are no strangers to complaining about reps = trouble to come. TJ is already going public about it just 4 games in. What happens when Stallworth comes back? I actually would like to see David Reed eventually get a shot outside of playing special teams.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='PurpleChaos' timestamp='1286563390' post='501936']
Saw the writing on the wall with this one when we brought him in. 3 guys that are no strangers to complaining about reps = trouble to come. TJ is already going public about it just 4 games in. What happens when Stallworth comes back? I actually would like to see David Reed eventually get a shot outside of playing special teams.
[/quote]
Reed wont see the field this year as a WR, people are talking about TJ's hands being suspect right now (total bogus), Reed couldnt even remain consistent in catching balls in training camp. Stallworth wont complain about balls or anything, and he does stretch the field, but hes been anything but consistent throughout his entire career.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='PurpleChaos' timestamp='1286563390' post='501936']
Saw the writing on the wall with this one when we brought him in. 3 guys that are no strangers to complaining about reps = trouble to come. TJ is already going public about it just 4 games in. What happens when Stallworth comes back? I actually would like to see David Reed eventually get a shot outside of playing special teams.
[/quote]
Boldin has complained about not getting the ball before? I didn't really keep up with him all that closely in Arizona.

Slightly OT: This reminds me of Brian Billick's book. He said that during one season when the Ravens did not win many games Mason was as "happy as a clam" because he got the ball alot.

Reed will get his shot when he earns it.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1286564772' post='501955']
[b]Boldin has complained about not getting the ball before? I didn't really keep up with him all that closely in Arizona.[/b]

Slightly OT: This reminds me of Brian Billick's book. He said that during one season when the Ravens did not win many games Mason was as "happy as a clam" because he got the ball alot.

Reed will get his shot when he earns it.
[/quote]

People saw him yelling with Todd Haley in the play-offs two years ago and labeled him a diva.

[BloodRaven]

If I recall correctly Boldin had been seeking a trade for a few seasons now.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1286570130' post='502008']
If I recall correctly Boldin had been seeking a trade for a few seasons now.
[/quote]

And justifiably so. The team gave Larry a huge deal and there were young WRs on the roster they were looking to groom and work more into the game-plan.

[hammer]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1286557499' post='501861']
Thanks for your [b]opinion[/b]
[/quote]

Youre welcome. And yes, of course, it is just my opinion.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1286570753' post='502015']
And justifiably so. The team gave Larry a huge deal and there were young WRs on the roster they were looking to groom and work more into the game-plan.
[/quote]
How juiced is he to be out of Arizona now. Max Hall starting QB...

[flaccopoe]

Houshmandzadeh's great: he should get more playtime. He'll become a great starter when Moss re-retires. Definitely a good investment!

[Guest Maryland1]

[font="Verdana"][size="2"]What does Moss's "re-retirement" have to do with Houshmandzadeh?[/size][/font]

[Renediffie]

I see absolutely no reason for putting TJ over Mason. Mason have produced for us every single year, dont back out on him after just 4 games.

[ravensconvert]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1286477389' post='501284']
Having said all that, I hope TJ gets re-signed if Mason hangs em up for good after the season. We need a young WR soon, but if we can hold off for a year (unless a stud falls in our laps) and use our first two round picks on an interior Dlineman and a RT that would be huge for us.
[/quote]

If TJ performs I can guarantee Mase is gone next year.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='Maryland1' timestamp='1286597499' post='502208']
[font="Verdana"][size="2"]What does Moss's "re-retirement" have to do with Houshmandzadeh?[/size][/font]
[/quote]

I think he meant Mase.

[Guest Maryland1]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1286597861' post='502214']
I think he meant Mase.
[/quote]


[font="Verdana"][size="2"]OK, now it makes sense.[/size][/font]

[jonnyloback76]

So Boldin's the 1, Mason's the 2 and Housh is the 3. Boldin was always a 1 any way a team looks at it IMO. Even with modern day "Football 101", I don't know why Cameron doesn't flip that up a bit? Put Housh as the 1 to draw attention from the other teams #1 CB, leave Mason as the 2 and then set Boldin as the 3 in a three receiver set (or Flip-flop Boldin and Mason).

I don't recall reading anywhere Boldin HAS to be covered by the opposing teams #1 CB in a game. If him or Mason weren't covered by a DB, I can't even imagine the amount of line-shifting and head turning, just absolute "chaos" it would cause for another team's D. LOL.

Realistically how would another team's D deal with that? Housh lining up against (just examples) Revis, Mason against Cromarite and Boldin running an "out" route while Housh and Mason are already half way down the field. Boldin would more then likely throw a safety into the dirt and keep going.

It just seems that the WR position "labels" always have one or the other person being followed by a specific defensive player. Why? Is I guess the question I have. These teams, like the Ravens, that have 3 receivers (and there aren't many) of the quality that the Ravens have, their 3rd receivers always seem to be a thorn in the side of the opposing teams defense. Now that the Ravens have 3, why not forget about the "rank" WR they are and move them around a bit?

[Jabara]

[quote name='jonnyloback76' timestamp='1286599623' post='502235']
So Boldin's the 1, Mason's the 2 and Housh is the 3. Boldin was always a 1 any way a team looks at it IMO. Even with modern day "Football 101", I don't know why Cameron doesn't flip that up a bit? Put Housh as the 1 to draw attention from the other teams #1 CB, leave Mason as the 2 and then set Boldin as the 3 in a three receiver set (or Flip-flop Boldin and Mason).

I don't recall reading anywhere Boldin HAS to be covered by the opposing teams #1 CB in a game. If him or Mason weren't covered by a DB, I can't even imagine the amount of line-shifting and head turning, just absolute "chaos" it would cause for another team's D. LOL.

Realistically how would another team's D deal with that? Housh lining up against (just examples) Revis, Mason against Cromarite and Boldin running an "out" route while Housh and Mason are already half way down the field. Boldin would more then likely throw a safety into the dirt and keep going.

It just seems that the WR position "labels" always have one or the other person being followed by a specific defensive player. Why? Is I guess the question I have. These teams, like the Ravens, that have 3 receivers (and there aren't many) of the quality that the Ravens have, their 3rd receivers always seem to be a thorn in the side of the opposing teams defense. Now that the Ravens have 3, why not forget about the "rank" WR they are and move them around a bit?
[/quote]
They do. That's one of the ways you create a mismatch.
It's not #1 vs #1, #2 vs #2, all game.

[jonnyloback76]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1286605553' post='502268']
They do. That's one of the ways you create a mismatch.
It's not #1 vs #1, #2 vs #2, all game.
[/quote]

Yeah I see Boldin alternate (amongst other receivers) but I am kind of curious as to why it doesn't get used a lot more. Put like Heap against the #1 and leave the rest to run. When it does seem to create mismatches, it seems to me that it usually works out a lot better.

I guess my whole point really is to why Housh would be unhappy with his role if the WR matchups were getting changed up all the time? Almost like it may say who's playing what on a piece of paper, but as long as Housh is out there and McClain isn't and Housh still gets his share of playing time, then why would he be concerned about being the #3? I guess I'm not doing a very good job of explaining what I'm asking and I'm sorry about that.

Housh seems to get a good deal of time on the field from what I have seen.

With Cameron, if there's only two WRs on the field and Heap is set up to block, chances are the ball is staying on the ground. See what I'm saying? Almost as if the Ravens don't have a #2 or #3. They just have a #1 and then whatever other receivers are running if the ball is going to the air.

I still want to see what Dickson and Pitta are really capable of.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='jonnyloback76' timestamp='1286607229' post='502270']
Yeah I see Boldin alternate (amongst other receivers) but I am kind of curious as to why it doesn't get used a lot more. Put like Heap against the #1 and leave the rest to run. When it does seem to create mismatches, it seems to me that it usually works out a lot better.

I guess my whole point really is to why Housh would be unhappy with his role if the WR matchups were getting changed up all the time? Almost like it may say who's playing what on a piece of paper, but as long as Housh is out there and McClain isn't and Housh still gets his share of playing time, then why would he be concerned about being the #3? I guess I'm not doing a very good job of explaining what I'm asking and I'm sorry about that.

Housh seems to get a good deal of time on the field from what I have seen.

With Cameron, if there's only two WRs on the field and Heap is set up to block, chances are the ball is staying on the ground. See what I'm saying? Almost as if the Ravens don't have a #2 or #3. They just have a #1 and then whatever other receivers are running if the ball is going to the air.

I still want to see what Dickson and Pitta are really capable of.
[/quote]

Um...the defense decides who they cover with their #1 CB. I'm not sure what you're saying here.

[jonnyloback76]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1286608300' post='502276']
Um...the defense decides who they cover with their #1 CB. I'm not sure what you're saying here.
[/quote]

I get that, I was primarily talking about changing up routes or audibles but I was explaining it poorly. For instance IF Flacco notices a more favorable matchup that Housh or Mason may have, he should be able to do something about it. Like call an audible LOL.

Why does it matter so much to some WRs that their place is known on the team and where their place is to play? Is it the playbook? Reaching incentives? I mean what is it?

Housh has half the yardage that Mason has, but he had a few drops in their too; they weren't his fault mostly though.

Take the 2008 Cardinals for example. Breaston had 400 less yards then Fitzgerald being probably the what? #3 or even #4? Boldin probably would have passed Fitzgerald if he didn't miss 4 games.

Now Housh is apparently saying that he wants more opportunities or to be played as the #2? Why? I don't even know where to look it up, but how many times has Housh been thrown to and how many times has Mason been thrown to? Housh has half the receptions, but probably should have caught a few more balls too. With the way Cameron draws up plays, it looks like Housh is going to have an opportunity to get the ball almost as much as Mason does. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see Housh end up with more yardage, with the passing plays that are being worked in; especially the shotguns.

If Housh wants more opportunities, then he should get open more. The talent is definitely there, but his comments about where and when he should be used, why is that necessary with the plays that Cameron has developed. Cameron is REALLY showing that he can draw up some great passing plays and I always thought that he was more ground oriented.

I just don't really get the news that came out today about Housh saying he was told he would get thrown to 50-60 times and all that stuff. With the confidence that Cameron and Flacco are both gaining, Flacco should be able to audible more and I see no problem with him catching 15 more passes then that. Is he just going off of what the playbook says or how the games have been playing out? Because Flacco really only started using the shotgun plays a good deal was it just the last game? Or did it start the game before that? I kinda just would like to see Housh realize he is a great receiver, Cameron knows that, and be a little more of a Raven and let the games play out.