Tom Zbikowski, The Punt Returner

[Marcus]

I still don't understand why Zbikowski is our PR? He's not either fast nor explosive, and he's are starting FS. A few times in the Steelers game we made them punt inside their own 20-30 yard line only to have Zbikowski run backwards or sideline to sideline with his "speed" and "agility" only to put us in average field position.

Josh Wilson was put on the in-active list for Ken Hamlin? Are you serious? I know he just did KR in Seattle put you just have to try him out as a PR.

[PuRock]

We are missing that spark on special teams.

But the one thing that keeps giving Tom the chance is the fact that he holds onto the football. Harbs values holding onto the ball on Special teams over the ability for big plays, IMO.

[Marcus]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1286213526' post='498063']
We are missing that spark on special teams.

But the one thing that keeps giving Tom the chance is the fact that he holds onto the football. Harbs values holding onto the ball on Special teams over the ability for big plays, IMO.
[/quote]

I agree. Thats the only reason why hes back there. But I do miss those big plays from special teams our team used to make in previous years.

[Runnin Raven]

I'm with Marcus on this. An injury to Zibby would not be good right now. I understand the need for ball security, but at some point you need to put the ball in the hands of guys who can make plays. We ask for at every other position, why not PR? I guess its a matter of gameday roster spots, but I'd like to see Miller get a chance.

[berad]

Josh Wilson has never returned a punt in the NFL, I doubt he would start now.

People need to wrap their heads around this fact: [b]punt returns /= kick returns.[/b]

They're two entirely different skills.

Zbikowski is the best we have right now considering the 45-man gameday roster limitations. I would love to see Prince Miller back there but he wouldn't contribute to the defense in the way maybe a back-up LB or DL could.

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1286216368' post='498130']
Josh Wilson has never returned a punt in the NFL, I doubt he would start now.

People need to wrap their heads around this fact: [b]punt returns /= kick returns.[/b]

They're two entirely different skills.

Zbikowski is the best we have right now considering the 45-man gameday roster limitations. I would love to see Prince Miller back there but he wouldn't contribute to the defense in the way maybe a back-up LB or DL could.
[/quote]

They are not "entirely" different at all. That's why there are plenty of players who return both kick-offs and punts.

But I do agree that Zbikowski has done a good job of holding on to the ball. ANYONE is better than having Chris Carr back there. But it would be nice to see more production when our returner has as much time as Zibby when he catches the ball.

[berad]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1286219084' post='498187']
They are not "entirely" different at all. That's why there are plenty of players who return both kick-offs and punts.

But I do agree that Zbikowski has done a good job of holding on to the ball. ANYONE is better than having Chris Carr back there. But it would be nice to see more production when our returner has as much time as Zibby when he catches the ball.
[/quote]

Some players do, but there are a lot who do exclusively PRs and some who do only KRs. They're different. If they weren't, Jalen Parmele would be back there on 4th down.

Zibby has held onto the ball well. He just makes terrible decisions, trying to cut across the field. He isn't that fast or that quick. Just go straight, Tom!

[theFRANCHISE]

Zbikowski's ball security aside, I don't want him back there largely because I don't like having starters risk injury playing special teams. Those are extra snaps that they don't really need to take, especially given how fragile the depth is at defensive back.

Sure, the secondary has played well without Ed Reed and Domonique Foxworth, but another injury or two, and the depth chart suddenly isn't looking so great. I don't trust Ken Hamlin filling in for Zbikowski in the event of injury between now and Ed Reed's return, and though Haruki Nakamura could conceivably fill in at FS, he's more suited to SS. I'd rather not have any player be a liability that deep in the defensive backfield.

[omar586]

[quote name='Marcus' timestamp='1286213354' post='498060']
I still don't understand why Zbikowski is our PR? He's not either fast nor explosive, and he's are starting FS. A few times in the Steelers game we made them punt inside their own 20-30 yard line only to have Zbikowski run backwards or sideline to sideline with his "speed" and "agility" only to put us in average field position.

Josh Wilson was put on the in-active list for Ken Hamlin? Are you serious? I know he just did KR in Seattle put you just have to try him out as a PR.
[/quote]
i agree man , either put wilson or prince as PR, zibby is good safety but not PR, heck even parmle is not that explosive he just consistent

[hawkprey]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1286235057' post='498561']
Zbikowski's ball security aside, I don't want him back there largely because I don't like having starters risk injury playing special teams. Those are extra snaps that they don't really need to take, especially given how fragile the depth is at defensive back.

[/quote]

I suppose you'd prefer whoever it is that's actually worse than Zibby returning punts?
Seriously, who's the backup at this point? Cam Cameron?

Really though, the odds of him getting hurt on PR are much slimmer than his odds of getting hurt playing starting safety. Should he not be playing safety? Or maybe each play on safety is so much more important than each punt return? You can't coach a team by sacrificing skill for freak accidents.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1286237730' post='498641']
I suppose you'd prefer whoever it is that's actually worse than Zibby returning punts?
Seriously, who's the backup at this point? Cam Cameron?

Really though, the odds of him getting hurt on PR are much slimmer than his odds of getting hurt playing starting safety. Should he not be playing safety? Or maybe each play on safety is so much more important than each punt return? You can't coach a team by sacrificing skill for freak accidents.
[/quote]
Actually, I'd argue that Zibby has a bigger chance of getting hurt on a punt return since the hits are inherently bigger on special teams, given the speed at which guys are flying around the field. It's not like playing snap-to-snap, where guys are only able to burst at short periods of time. These are guys running half the length of the field at full-speed, some of them with a clear bee-line to the ballcarrier.

If the coaches wanted ball security, they could've gone with almost anyone and just had them down the ball.

[True]

I thought David Reed was drafted specifically for this role. I remember reading that he showed some good impressions during training camp, but haven't heard anything since. Is there a reason he isn't returning kicks or punts even though he's on the roster?

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1286238491' post='498661']
I thought David Reed was drafted specifically for this role. I remember reading that he showed some good impressions during training camp, but haven't heard anything since. Is there a reason he isn't returning kicks or punts even though he's on the roster?
[/quote]
One reason might be that he's been particularly effective as a gunner. Another reason could be that he may have started to show hesitation during practice in returning kicks and punts. That's just speculation on my part, though. I really don't know, but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him as a returner.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1286238491' post='498661']
I thought David Reed was drafted specifically for this role. I remember reading that he showed some good impressions during training camp, but haven't heard anything since. Is there a reason he isn't returning kicks or punts even though he's on the roster?
[/quote]

Reed returned kicks but not punts at Utah. I heard about him taking punt return reps at one point in the off-season but the coaches weren't ever comfortable to have him return them even in pre-season.

[jdynamite]

I would like Prince miller to get activated and have his chance at punt and kick off returns!! I think he could be special at it.. and for the last 2 r 3 yrs (well really since we lost BJ Sams ) cuz I didnt like figurs much our special teams hasnt been as dependable...

[jdynamite]

Zibkowski has played well in the FS role but as a Returner he just doesnt do it well.. he constantly runs horizontal.. he never turns up the field for positive yds...

Also Parmele may have a high average on kick-offs but he doesn't seem to be someone that will take one to the house or get 50 yds much..

[SnOoPy]

Zibby thinks he can burn everyone like how he did in College. But this is the NFL..everyone fast. lol I wouldn't mind seeing P.Miller returning punt.

[BloodRaven]

I still dont get why a defensive starter is returning.

[Alexir]

I don't like him at FS or PR....

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1286213526' post='498063']
We are missing that spark on special teams.

But the one thing that keeps giving Tom the chance is the fact that he holds onto the football. [b]Harbs values holding onto the ball on Special teams over the ability for big plays, IMO.[/b][/quote]
That's what an experienced, knowledgeable former ST coordinator believes in. Discipline and fundamentals comes before big play ability. Just keep holding onto the ball Zibby and you'll keep getting these returns and eventually, you might break for a score.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1286216368' post='498130']
Josh Wilson has never returned a punt in the NFL, I doubt he would start now.

People need to wrap their heads around this fact: [b]punt returns /= kick returns.[/b]

They're two entirely different skills.

Zbikowski is the best we have right now considering the 45-man gameday roster limitations. I would love to see Prince Miller back there but he wouldn't contribute to the defense in the way maybe a back-up LB or DL could.
[/quote]

obviously you haven't seen much of a comparison between our special team and other teams lately.

Zbi is a terrible PR. Just look at his moves at the jets game, then look at his moves from yesterdays, then look at his moves from bengals(lol),

Its the same verticle run, then realizing his too slow he runs back and force the ball to get to 5-10 near end zone territory.

[Alexir]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1286249262' post='498849']
That's what an experienced, knowledgeable former ST coordinator believes in. Discipline and fundamentals comes before big play ability. Just keep holding onto the ball Zibby and you'll keep getting these returns and eventually, you might break for a score.
[/quote]

Pretty sure experienced, knowledgeable former ST coordinator's don't want their returner running east and west and occasionally backwards losing yards.

[berad]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1286250820' post='498871']
obviously you haven't seen much of a comparison between our special team and other teams lately.

Zbi is a terrible PR. Just look at his moves at the jets game, then look at his moves from yesterdays, then look at his moves from bengals(lol),

Its the same verticle run, then realizing his too slow he runs back and force the ball to get to 5-10 near end zone territory.
[/quote]

I never said Zibby was good in any form, just that he can hold onto the ball. I realize he is a bad returner, he has negligible speed and bad agility for a PR.

I know it needs work, you've never seen me say otherwise..

[big hits and ball hawks]

If Zibby would run north and south I wouldn't care so much even if he didn't get a huge return he'd still get positive yards. The fact that he's still trying to go east and west after the jets game bothers me because he just can't do it. I agree he has sure hands but I also agree that he makes bad decisions. Before anyone brings up what he did in college, because people have in previous threads about him at PR, I'd like to remind everyone that Troy Smith won the Heisman. Sometimes things just don't translate from college to the pros. So as I said before, if he goes north and south I won't mind as much. Though, I would also like to see explosiveness. I'd assume that when Stallworth returns he may be a possible canidate even though he wasn't impressive in preseason, he still has the speed. I don't think they're ready to trust the rookies back there yet, Prince and Reed, though I think they like Prince for the future or they wouldn't have gotten him back.

To address Josh Wilson for returning kicks, I'm all for him getting back to return kickoffs. Jalen has played solid but he's missing the explosiveness that Josh brings, that I've seen at least. I've said this in a previous thread that since I do like Jalen maybe he can either rotate with Josh or they can both go back at the same time.

[neoi78]

im not too worried about injurys, as Tom is a guy who looks like he can hold his own. while players would love to cream players such as david reed for his build is smaller i dont think they could do such to tom. plus ed reed is returning in 3 WEEKS!! so an injury wouldnt be HORRIBLE, but yet still bad.

as far as his returning skills, egh, not so great. i agree the only reason ive ever thought he still is doing returns is because he is strong enough to get hit and hold onto the ball 99.9% of the time, no matter what.

i think the coaches know we cant get beat on special teams at the moment.or we might lose the game.

prime example: MNF pats vs fins

[Radinho84]

isn´t david reed on the team for special teams? he had a lot of good tackles i think and someone mentioned he could be a very dangerous return guy. i know it´s not about kickoffs but is he worth a try?

[MagicianCamille]

I'm a fan of Zbikowski but every time he fields a punt I feel like closing my eyes. He makes me incredibly nervous with his sideways running.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' timestamp='1286263759' post='498938']
I'm a fan of Zbikowski but every time he fields a punt I feel like closing my eyes. He makes me incredibly nervous with his sideways running.
[/quote]
Same. His sideways running reminds me of what I do in Madden when I return punts...and it never works, yet I still keep doing it. I almost feel for Zibby in that sense. Almost.

[DHaran]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1286219084' post='498187']
They are not "entirely" different at all. That's why there are plenty of players who return both kick-offs and punts.

But I do agree that Zbikowski has done a good job of holding on to the ball. ANYONE is better than having Chris Carr back there. But it would be nice to see more production when our returner has as much time as Zibby when he catches the ball.
[/quote]

Do you actually believe there isn't a MAJOR difference in kick and punt returns? It's like comparing a safety and a corner, but oh because they are both defensive backs they should be interchangeable. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Wilson has never returned a punt in his NFL career, there is a reason for that.

[berad]

[quote name='DHaran' timestamp='1286305933' post='499368']
Do you actually believe there isn't a MAJOR difference in kick and punt returns? It's like comparing a safety and a corner, but oh because they are both defensive backs they should be interchangeable. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Wilson has never returned a punt in his NFL career, there is a reason for that.
[/quote]

It's all 'KR' on madden, though