Housh (Still) Disappointed With Role

[BohBalmerOsbohs]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1286593579' post='502172']
I honestly don't think I've ever seen you here before.
[/quote]

dito

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='BohBalmerOsbohs' timestamp='1286602956' post='502258']
dito
[/quote]

ROFLMAO!

were did this guy come from...

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1286597222' post='502200']
We have a week for the Trade Deadline right... how about we re-open the Trade Portal between us and the NFC West and see who wants TJ! Or we could just be mean and send him to Buffalo!

In reality TJ will most likely be released when Stallworth is ready to come back plus we have to make room for Reed so I really don't see TJ lasting long, either when Stallworth comes back or when Reed comes back.
[/quote]

Absolutely not! What are you guys thinking? TJ is a better receiver than Stallworth and Clayton, he was a huge upgrade. Receivers want the ball, that's part of the game. He hasn't said anything disrespectful or that bad, he just wants the ball, and Flacco will find him if he's open. I'm sure that TJ is aware of his drops.

We made him some assurances when he agreed to sign here. Trading him would be the ultimate slap in the face, and I would be upset with our FO if they went back on their word like that. It would make it difficult, if not impossible for the Ravens to take advantage of future, similar situations.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1286607707' post='502271']
ROFLMAO!

were did this guy come from...
[/quote]

.....Oh the irony.

Moving on. I don't get this at all... we really must be spoiled as fans. Oh wow a guy who's been to the pro bowl and was just signed last year as a #1 receiver wants to be targeted more. SHOCKER.

Oh my, a guy who admittedly "talks a lot" is doing a lot of talking. SHOCKER.

People here want to have their cake and eat it too. Mark Clayton shut the hell up and did nothing. Which we complained about. He caught some balls a #2 receiver should catch and dropped others. TJ has the ability to put up awesome numbers and he wants his legacy to reflect that. SHOCKER.

I'd rather have a guy that demands the ball and is accountable than a guy who will smile atcha all day and then hope nobody asks when he disappears for 2-3 game stretches.

Come on people. Really. People whine about Joe not having enough passion and about TJ having too much.

If the guy produces, and we win, who CARES if he's headcase? Michael Irvin was a headcase. Marvin Harrison (although I admit he was AMAZINGLY covert about it) was a headcase. Guess what, sometimes great athletes aren't "best friend" material.

Why are we talking about this?

PS- Regarding Stallworth: We're talking about the same Stallworth that couldn't beat Mark Clayton out for the #3 spot right? Sigh, the grass is always greener with some of ya'll

[Jabara]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1286608635' post='502278']
[b]PS- Regarding Stallworth: We're talking about the same Stallworth that couldn't beat Mark Clayton out for the #3 spot right? Sigh, the grass is always greener with some of ya'll[/b]
[/quote]
We don't know that to be true, being a vet on this team will have you ranked higher as far as the very simple depth chart the Ravens keep. It's not typically a who is better depth chart, the rankings are pretty generic, at least in training camp.
Stallworth had to learn the system while his role would be evaluated.
If Clayton clearly beat out Stallworth, they would have gotten rid of Stallworth and not Clayton, especially since Stallworth was kept on the active roster, after being injured.
You can't say he didn't beat Clayton for the #3 spot.
The interesting thing will be, what happens when Stallworth comes back?

[Juviebest]

I could personally care less about Housh. I have a hard time forgetting he was a Bengal. He's a lot more self centered then Q and Mase, this talking to the media TOO much. It's not a SHOCKER, but it sure is the wrong way to go about things.

If we keep Housh, he needs to shut up. If we don't keep him, oh well. We still have Stall, D Reed, and even Marcus Smith (I think). Dickson could even get more reps in the slot a la Dallas Clark.

[ravenanchors]

This is not about the media taking advantage of Housh or that the media is causing trouble. So far they are just reporting Housh's own words.
Everyone knows Housh likes to complain to the media.

(Beasy2487)
--There is no evidence that either Stallworth or Housh is a better receiver. Their stats are identical.
--Housh was not signed as a number 1 receiver. He was signed and he was aware that he would be a number 3 receiver.
--Replacing Housh with Stallworth may not be a big improvement on the field, but it could be an improvement in the locker room. The last thing the Ravens need is a locker room distraction during a SB year. It is almost a sure bet that he will continue to complain.
--Housh is not accoutable. The way you take accoutability is by improving your catches and show the team you are willing to put forth the effort. Housh has not done this.
--Housh is not productive. Housh is only catching 35 percent of the balls thrown to him.
--Whether Clayton talked or not makes absolutely no difference. He was inconsistent and unreliable. The same as Housh.

--Coaches do not like players with bad attitudes (like T.O.) that is why they get traded so much. Housh is falling into the same category as T.O. They are not team players and they do not help the team win and they cause trouble in the locker room.
If you do not understand this, all you have to do is look at the teams that T.O. and Housh have been with and what transpired.
If this is not true, why would Seattle let Housh go when they have to pay him a huge salary.

Housh wants to be the number 1 receiver without putting in the effort or proving his skills to the team.

Stallworth on the other hand wants to get back into the game and is willing to put forth the effort, the same as Boldin and Mason. Stallworth knows he has something to prove.

Even if the coaches promised Housh a specific number of throws, he is being thrown to 4 times a game and if he catches them he would have 60 catches this year. You cannot guarantee a specific number of catches, only that the balls will be thrown to him.

When Housh catches more than 35 percent of the balls thrown to him, then he will have the right to ask for more playing time and more balls thrown his way.

[Juviebest]

I couldn't have said it better ravenanchors. Bravo.

[Marc2k6]

Oh so Mason was willing to sacrifice his #1 spot to Boldin? Hmmm, I'm sure Mason really has no say in who the #1 WR is for the Raven's. As a matter of fact I am certain that the coaching staff did not ask Mason who should be the #1 WR or what personnel should be on the team. Are we having problems in the locker room during this Super Bowl year? Super Bowl year? I think we have atleast 7-8 more games to win just for a play off spot and then we will have to win all of the play off games to include the AFC Chamoinship game before we can call this a S.B. year. Man, I did not know we were having trouble in the locker room? I need to check my twitter again.

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286602793' post='502257']
It's funny how you can say that about TJ, then in the very next sentence mention Boldin and Mason, both of whom are also very vocal about not getting the ball enough when they feel that is the case.
[/quote]

Mason and Boldin have not been complaing to the media. In fact, Mason was willing to sacrifice the number 1 receiver spot to Boldin, and he had good things to say about the Ravens signing Boldin.

When Mason speaks to the media he talks about how he has to improve his own play to help the team win. This is completely the opposite of what Housh does.

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='Marc2k6' timestamp='1286633274' post='502320']
Oh so Mason was willing to sacrifice his #1 spot to Boldin? Hmmm, I'm sure Mason really has no say in who the #1 WR is for the Raven's. As a matter of fact I am certain that the coaching staff did not ask Mason who should be the #1 WR or what personnel should be on the team. Are we having problems in the locker room during this Super Bowl year? Super Bowl year? I think we have atleast 7-8 more games to win just for a play off spot and then we will have to win all of the play off games to include the AFC Chamoinship game before we can call this a S.B. year. Man, I did not know we were having trouble in the locker room? I need to check my twitter again.
[/quote]

The fact is, that the Coaches did speak to Mason about bringing Boldin on board and Mason spoke to the media and said he was happy that they were signing Boldin.

The fact is, if the coaches have to speak to the media and explain that there isn't a problem, then there really is.

The fact is, that this is a SB year for the Ravens. It is the best shot that they have had to make it all the way in the past 10 years and they do not need problems in the locker room that lead to on field distractions.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286634216' post='502329']
The fact is, that the Coaches did speak to Mason about bringing Boldin on board and Mason spoke to the media and said he was happy that they were signing Boldin.

The fact is, if the coaches have to speak to the media and explain that there isn't a problem, then there really is.

The fact is, that this is a SB year for the Ravens. It is the best shot that they have had to make it all the way in the past 10 years and they do not need problems in the locker room that lead to on field distractions.
[/quote]

I really liked that first Steve McNair Raven squad...I believe 06...I feel that was the best Raven team since the 2000 championship squad..this squad is 3rd.

[Marc2k6]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286634216' post='502329']
The fact is, that the Coaches did speak to Mason about bringing Boldin on board and Mason spoke to the media and said he was happy that they were signing Boldin.

The fact is, if the coaches have to speak to the media and explain that there isn't a problem, then there really is.

The fact is, that this is a SB year for the Ravens. It is the best shot that they have had to make it all the way in the past 10 years and they do not need problems in the locker room that lead to on field distractions.
[/quote]
The Raven's telling Mason that they were going to get another WR is showing respect to a veteran WR. He did not sacrifice his #1 WR spot, that is not his decision.

The media now days will take one sentence from a interview and spin it however they want to for a story so why not cut it off early.

The Fact is that there is a lot of work to be put in before this season is a Super Bowl year. Until that work has be put in, it is just another N.F.L. season. Teams are not going to lay down for the Raven's, they will have to be put down and next on the list is Denver.

[Marc2k6]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1286634958' post='502332']
I really liked that first Steve McNair Raven squad...I believe 06...I feel that was the best Raven team since the 2000 championship squad..this squad is 3rd.
[/quote]
True but we just could not make it through all of those injuries! Just think, soon there will be a 18 game season.

[Jamal]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1286634958' post='502332']
I really liked that first Steve McNair Raven squad...I believe 06...I feel that was the best Raven team since the 2000 championship squad..this squad is 3rd.
[/quote]
That was another great defensive team. Only second to the 2000 D.

Other than McNair, we really didn't have much on offense. O-line wasn't very good, Jamal was on his last legs, and other than Heap no one on offense really scared defenses. It was Claytons best year, but he still didn't have 1,000 yards.

If we had our current offense with that defense, no doubt we would have won it all. Other than NE, there really wasn't any great defensive team in the AFC playoffs. Flacco could have put up 21+ points easily, and that was really all the D needed.

As for the Superbowl, we would have feasted on Rex Grossman.

[ravenanchors]

That is exactly what I am saying. I don't remember a better offense than the Ravens have now.
This is the most balanced team the Ravens have had since last SB and that is what it takes to get back to the SB.
Ravens may have had better defenses in the previous years than we have now but that is not what I was referring to.

Ravens balance between Offense and Defense this year is probably better than any other team in the NFL.

If our offense cant win the game our defense can and visa versa. So no matter who we face, we have the potential to win.

In the past this wasn't the case. If the ravens defense didn't win the game their offense wasn't coming through with the win.

And that makes it a SB year for the Ravens.
That doesn't mean the Ravens will win the SB or Make it to the SB but this year The Ravens have the most potential to make it since the last SB.

Oh by the way - Mason did sacrifice his number one spot. It doesn't matter who's choice it was. You sacrifice by giving something up and Mason did it gladly so that the Team could have a better chance to make the SB. In fact Mason said so.
Not only did he sacrifice his number one spot, he also realized that would mean less balls being thrown to him and he was glad to help the team.
Mason truly has the "Raven" attitude.

[ravenanchors]

Who should Flacco throw the ball to?

Boldin is catching 99 percent of the balls thrown his way.

Mason, Rice and Heap are each catching 70 percent of the balls thrown their way.

TJ is catching 40 percent of the balls thrown his way.

This is really a no brainer.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286594223' post='502176']
Trading Housh would not be a bad idea. I thing he should be traded to Buffalo or Jaguars.
Ravens would not miss him, with Stallworth coming back soon and David Reed could step in until then. David Reed couldn't possibly play any worse than Housh and The Ravens wouldn't lose any games because of his absence.
[/quote]

This is the worst suggestion ever. If you were a GM, players would HATE you, and they definitely wouldn't trust you. You realize that we convinced TJ to come here, right? He didn't have to come here, he could have gone anywhere. Next year is a contract year for him, and he wants to do well. It's unbelievable how selfish and callous some fans can be. I personally don't think TJ has done anything so bad, and neither does Cam Cameron.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286646135' post='502389']
Who should Flacco throw the ball to?

Boldin is catching 99 percent of the balls thrown his way.

Mason, Rice and Heap are each catching 70 percent of the balls thrown their way.

TJ is catching 40 percent of the balls thrown his way.

This is really a no brainer.
[/quote]

Wow, you're using percentages with a sample size of what...10? He has the sixth most receptions on the team, and he has a history of good hands. Give me a break.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286628784' post='502304']<br />This is not about the media taking advantage of Housh or that the media is causing trouble.  So far they are just reporting Housh's own words.<br />Everyone knows Housh likes to complain to the media.<br /><br />(Beasy2487) <br />--There is no evidence that either Stallworth or Housh is a better receiver. Their stats are identical.  <br />--Housh was not signed as a number 1 receiver.  He was signed and he was aware that he would be a number 3 receiver.<br />--Replacing Housh with Stallworth may not be a big improvement on the field, but it could be an improvement in the locker room.   The last thing the Ravens need is a locker room distraction during a SB year.  It is almost a sure bet that he will continue to complain.  <br />--Housh is not accoutable.  The way you take accoutability is by improving your catches and show the team you are willing to put forth the effort.  Housh has not done this.<br />--Housh is not productive.  Housh is only catching 35 percent of the balls thrown to him.<br />--Whether Clayton talked or not makes absolutely no difference.  He was inconsistent and unreliable.  The same as Housh.<br /><br />--Coaches do not like players with bad attitudes (like T.O.) that is why they get traded so much.  Housh is falling into the same category as T.O. They are not team players and they do not help the team win and they cause trouble in the locker room.<br />If you do not understand this, all you have to do is look at the teams that T.O. and Housh have been with and what transpired.<br />If this is not true, why would Seattle let Housh go when they have to pay him a huge salary.<br /><br />Housh wants to be the number 1 receiver without putting in the effort or proving his skills to the team.  <br /><br />Stallworth on the other hand wants to get back into the game and is willing to put forth the effort, the same as Boldin and Mason.  Stallworth knows he has something to prove.  <br /><br />Even if the coaches promised Housh a specific number of throws, he is being thrown to 4 times a game and if he catches them he would have 60 catches this year.  You cannot guarantee a specific number of catches, only that the balls will be thrown to him.<br /><br />When Housh catches more than 35 percent of the balls thrown to him, then he will have the right to ask for more playing time and more balls thrown his way.<br />[/quote]

Ridiculous. Housh's stats are FAR better than Stallworth's. To say otherwise tells me that you know nothing about TJ.
Another thing that tell's me you know nothing about TJ is your claim that he lacks accountability. Obviously you did not see his post game interview after Cincinnati.

And to compare Housh to TO is the absolute height of football ignorance.

But I guess where are all entitled to our opinions, no matter how wrong they are.

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1286647138' post='502399']
Wow, you're using percentages with a sample size of what...10? He has the sixth most receptions on the team, and he has a history of good hands. Give me a break.
[/quote]

Yeah but there are only 6 people catching the ball.
Sample size doesn't matter. From the very beginning of the year you have to produce as if it were the end of the year.

You cannot have the attitude of "well its only the first game of the year, and it doesn't matter if I drop the passes".

Once the games start, it all counts and you have to play to the best of your ability.

And I know Housh "was" a good reciever, but it is not showing in his playmaking.

[CapoRocky]

Most of the time, I read the posts and only comment when the topic interests me. This time, I want to set one thing straight, Cam needs to try 3 and 4 wide receiver sets and Flacco needs to throw the ball more even if it pisses off Rice and McGahee. No ball player will object to winning. The only reason we lost to the Colts in 2006 was that we had no offense. This year, there is no excuse not to score 18-21 points per game rather than squeak by by 1-3 points. Give the bookies a break, will you?

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1286647209' post='502400']
Ridiculous. Housh's stats are FAR better than Stallworth's. To say otherwise tells me that you know nothing about TJ.
Another thing that tell's me you know nothing about TJ is your claim that he lacks accountability. Obviously you did not see his post game interview after Cincinnati.

And to compare Housh to TO is the absolute height of football ignorance.

But I guess where are all entitled to our opinions, no matter how wrong they are.
[/quote]
You do not judge a person by what they say, but by what they do.
Housh makes a lot of cover your a## coments but his actions speak louder.

Your posts show your own ignorance.
Housh has been kicked off 2 teams because of his attitude. Just like T.O. 3 teams gave him the boot.

I've reseached the stats and they show no difference between the Housh and Stallworth.

Since you can't bother to post the stats you are referring to, I would have to assume you are delusional or lazy.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286647790' post='502407']
Yeah but there are only 6 people catching the ball.
Sample size doesn't matter. From the very beginning of the year you have to produce as if it were the end of the year.
[/quote]

What? That makes absolutely no sense, are you paying attention? It's not like all of those balls were just easy as pie catches, some of them were difficult. He's on a new team in a new system, and he dropped a few. My point is that you're using percentages way too early. Flacco was 4/10 in the Patriots game, and silly fans acted like his QB rating and completion percentage meant something. It's the same with you right now, you're judging TJ when he has the fewest receptions on the team, and assigning him a percentage of balls caught this early in the season. It's beyond ridiculous, it's amateurish. No competent analyst would agree with anything you've said in this thread.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286647884' post='502409']
I've reseached the stats and they show no difference between the two receivers.
[/quote]

Wow. Just wow. You obviously HAVEN'T researched the stats, not that it's hard. Go to NFL.com, and look up TJ Houshmandzadeh and Donte Stallworth. Then, come back here and tell me there's no difference in their stats. Good lord.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1286647875' post='502408']
Most of the time, I read the posts and only comment when the topic interests me. This time, I want to set one thing straight, Cam needs to try 3 and 4 wide receiver sets and Flacco needs to throw the ball more even if it pisses off Rice and McGahee. No ball player will object to winning. The only reason we lost to the Colts in 2006 was that we had no offense. This year, there is no excuse not to score 18-21 points per game rather than squeak by by 1-3 points. Give the bookies a break, will you?
[/quote]

That's not the type of team we are though...we run first...we're physical on both ends...were not some college team running the spread offense..plus our O-line isn't 100% and they would have to be at the top of their game if we run 4 receiver sets...I'm all for seeing some 4wr sets sometimes but let's not get away from what we are as a team

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1286648645' post='502415']
Wow. Just wow. You obviously HAVEN'T researched the stats, not that it's hard. Go to NFL.com, and look up TJ Houshmandzadeh and Donte Stallworth. Then, come back here and tell me there's no difference in their stats. Good lord.
[/quote]
If you don't want to prove your rant. Fine we'll just let it go. I have posted the stats here before. I am not going to do it again.

If you want to disagree, fine, but the least you can do is show the stats that prove your point.

[I AM LEGEND]

Like I said I would love to have TJ stay here next year and be our 2

But what if mason wants to stick around again..do we force him out to keep TJ...you know there's no way TJ comes back if mason is still around

And the TJ vs Stallworth debate shouldn't even be a discussion

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1286648442' post='502412']
What? That makes absolutely no sense, are you paying attention? It's not like all of those balls were just easy as pie catches, some of them were difficult. He's on a new team in a new system, and he dropped a few. My point is that you're using percentages way too early. Flacco was 4/10 in the Patriots game, and silly fans acted like his QB rating and completion percentage meant something. It's the same with you right now, you're judging TJ when he has the fewest receptions on the team, and assigning him a percentage of balls caught this early in the season. It's beyond ridiculous, it's amateurish. No competent analyst would agree with anything you've said in this thread.
[/quote]

Your first statement was that he was 6th in receptions.
Suddenly you change your mind when I point out there are only 6 people catching the ball. Now you want to come up with a totally different argument.

The argument isn't that TJ has the fewest receptions. That's not a problem.
He has a low percentage of catches. Thats the problem. All the receivers have a tough time catching the ball. That's no excuse, in fact it is equal across the board, all the receivers face the same challenges catching the ball. Some receivers overcome those challenges.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1286647884' post='502409']<br />You do not judge a person by what they say, but by what they do.<br />Housh makes a lot of cover your a## coments but his actions speak louder.<br /> <br />Your posts show your own ignorance.<br />Housh has been kicked off 2 teams because of his attitude.  Just like T.O. 3 teams gave him the boot.<br /><br />I've reseached the stats and they show no difference between the Housh and Stallworth.  <br /><br />Since you can't bother to post the stats you are referring to, I would have to assume you are delusional or lazy.<br />[/quote]


Okay, we'll pretend that Stallworth is in the same league as TJ, just for a moment (your world is a SCARY one), and let's talk about TJ's accountability, since you are bringing that into question as well. Did you see TJ's interview after the Cincy game? If so, what are your opinions on that?

Oh yeah, here's an oldie but goodie...didnt your mama ever tell you that you make an *** out of U and ME when you assume?