Housh (Still) Disappointed With Role

[BloodRaven]

All three are can make those tough clutch catches, but only Boldin is capable of putting points up.

[ravenanchors]

The trade talk is not about the FO decision. It is about what Housh would want. Being a 3rd receiver, you are not likely to get the ball as much as the 1st and 2nd receiver or even play as much and that is what Housh said.
I've read the Housh article. All Housh does in the article is complain. Housh has nothing nice to say about the Ravens at all in the article. Stallworth may not be a better receiver, than Housh but SW has a better attitude.

Complaining to the coach is one thing, but openly complaining to reporters is another.
If you want to change things you complain to the coach.
If you want to draw attention to yourself you complain to the reporter.
This type of team issue needs to be resolved between the coaches and the players.
For instance when you are working and you need to resolve a problem do you complain to a co-worker or do you go to your boss.

Mason has that attitude. He is not getting as many touches either, but he is not complaining to reporters. Mason has the "Play like a Raven" attitude where team comes first. Housh has the "me first" mentality.

[TSizzle00]

He already sad after week 1 that he had some trouble with the offense so that means hes still learning everything. Why is he worried about game time? He will get his shot for sure.

[ravenanchors]

Housh thrown to 12 times, he caught 2 passes
Mason thrown to 19 times, he caught 7 passes
Boldin thrown to 28 times, he caught 20 passes
Heap thrown to 22 times, he caught 14 passes
Rice thrown to 15 times, he caught 10 passes
McClain thrown to 5 times, he caught 4 passes

So Housh has not been very productive compared to the rest of the team.
Also, comparing Housh to Stallworth over their careers.
They both average 1 touchdown every 3 games, but yards per catch
SW = 14.8
Housh=11.4
Whoever said Housh is better than Stallworth, really doesn't hold any water.

[Jamal]

Housh and Stallworth have similar stats, but Stallworth is very injury prone. Moving forward, I personally would prefer Housh.

Unless Housh stays this way through the whole season, which I doubt, I would rather lock him for the next couple of years rather than Stallworth.

[PuRock]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1285944785' post='493332']
Housh thrown to 12 times, he caught 2 passes
Mason thrown to 19 times, he caught 7 passes
Boldin thrown to 28 times, he caught 20 passes
Heap thrown to 22 times, he caught 14 passes
Rice thrown to 15 times, he caught 10 passes
McClain thrown to 5 times, he caught 4 passes

So Housh has not been very productive compared to the rest of the team.
Also, comparing Housh to Stallworth over their careers.
They both average 1 touchdown every 3 games, but yards per catch
[b]SW = 14.8
Housh=11.4[/b]
Whoever said Housh is better than Stallworth, really doesn't hold any water.
[/quote]

That's comparing apples to oranges. Stallworth is designed to stretch the field, while Housh is a possession guy. So it's only natural that SW would have a greater YPC. Actually I'm surprised that it is that close.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't like that comparison. And if I had to choose who I'd rather want player for player. I'd take Housh.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='PurpleChaos' timestamp='1285941706' post='493308']
Honestly are we really suprised here?
You have 3 WR's that have been known to get vocal in the past about lack of touches. Totally saw this one coming. Ozzie and company pretty much set themselves up for this potential mess.
[/quote]

Exactly!

I could maybe understand if we had peyton manning or drew brees..an experienced qb that can get the ball to all their weapons...but what part of Flaccos game was TJ and FO looking at which made them think Flacco was going to be able to handle this situation

I'm under the impression that TJ thought it would be a matter of time before he took that #2 Wr spot..and I don't think coaches would take mason out especially with him being Flaccos safety blanket

[I AM LEGEND]

And P.S. I would love for TJ to move into the #2 spot next year....

[Jamal]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1285946160' post='493350']
Exactly!

I could maybe understand if we had peyton manning or drew brees..an experienced qb that can get the ball to all their weapons...but what part of Flaccos game was TJ and FO looking at which made them think Flacco was going to be able to handle this situation

I'm under the impression that TJ thought it would be a matter of time before he took that #2 Wr spot..and I don't think coaches would take mason out especially with him being Flaccos safety blanket
[/quote]
Well that is another consequence of not drafting receivers well.

[flaccopoe]

I think that he's still getting used to his new team mates. He should ask Boldin for some tips. I'm sure he'll prove to be a great WR acquisition though!

[beasy2487]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1285944785' post='493332']
Housh thrown to 12 times, he caught 2 passes
Mason thrown to 19 times, he caught 7 passes
Boldin thrown to 28 times, he caught 20 passes
Heap thrown to 22 times, he caught 14 passes
Rice thrown to 15 times, he caught 10 passes
McClain thrown to 5 times, he caught 4 passes

So Housh has not been very productive compared to the rest of the team.
Also, comparing Housh to Stallworth over their careers.
They both average 1 touchdown every 3 games, but yards per catch
SW = 14.8
Housh=11.4
Whoever said Housh is better than Stallworth, really doesn't hold any water.
[/quote]

Another post proving that you can use stats to tell [i]any story you want[/i].

Much like the thread that tried to argue Flacco was the best QB in the league. If you've watched Stallworth and Housh over their careers you know that they are both good receivers but TJ has definitely been more consistent.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1285947479' post='493371']
Another post proving that you can use stats to tell [i]any story you want[/i].

Much like the thread that tried to argue Flacco was the best QB in the league. If you've watched Stallworth and Housh over their careers you know that they are both good receivers but TJ has definitely been more consistent.
[/quote]

Yes I too love how stats are so commonly used on this forum

Once again stats are extremely misleading

And yes TJ is better then Stallworth

[1/28/01]

Another case of something being blown out of proportion.....Steelers are up next people!

[ravenanchors]

The stats I've shown are not intended to indicate that one player is better than the other.
Only that according to the stats you cannot make a compelling case as to which player is better.

So instead of just saying "I like so and so" how about some compelling argument.

I am not about to say one is better than the other until they prove it, playing for the Ravens.

[ravenanchors]

The discussion of this forum is Housh's attitude.
Housh claims he is not happy with his playing time.

But as third receiver he was thrown to an appropriate amount of times compared with Mason and Bouldin. Housh has nowhere to move to in the line up because Mason says he wants to play a couple more years and if Housh is unhappy after 3 games, he will not want to hang around a couple more seasons as a number 3.

On the other hand, Stallworth probably will want to hang around as number 3 because he has a lot to prove before he can qualify as a number 2.

Neither receiver has proven anything so far this year and both need to re-establish themselves after the last year they've had. Neither player is off to a good start. Stallworth is injured and Housh is unproductive and complaining to the media. This is not the way to get a promotion to 2nd receiver. It is going to be very difficult to unseat Mason from the number 2 spot. Mason has been invaluable to the team and consistent even when injured.

[PuRock]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1285953461' post='493443']
The discussion of this forum is Housh's attitude.
Housh claims he is not happy with his playing time.

But as third receiver he was thrown to an appropriate amount of times compared with Mason and Bouldin.
So, Housh has nowhere to move to in the line up because Mason says he wants to play a couple more years.
If Housh is unhappy after 3 games, he will not want to hang around a couple more seasons as a number 3.

On the other hand, Stallworth probably will want to hang around as number 3.
[/quote]

In all honesty I don't think either Stallworth or Housh will be a Raven next year, that was never the expectation since we signed both of these guys to one year deals.

Housh is more of a loaner. I don't think he was ever part of a long term plan. The price was right and we want to make a run. And then this team wants to see what Stallworth can do before offering any type of extension to him.

But it all depends on the 2011 draft and how Reed progresses as well.

[PuRock]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1285953461' post='493443']
Bouldin.
[/quote]

When did we sign this guy? I know he was a basketball guard at Gonzaga or something.

[ravenanchors]

Housh thrown to 12 times, he caught 2 passes
Mason thrown to 19 times, he caught 7 passes
Boldin thrown to 28 times, he caught 20 passes
Heap thrown to 22 times, he caught 14 passes
Rice thrown to 15 times, he caught 10 passes
McClain thrown to 5 times, he caught 4 passes

Allow me to interpret this information.

Flacco has passed the ball around to his
3 top threats, Mason, Boldin and Heap then to his
2 secondary threats Housh and Rice

So Housh's main contention that he does not receive enough playing time is ludicrious. Housh obviously does not understand what a 3rd receiver position is for.

This also indicates that Housh is not as productive as the other players on the team.
To say its Flacco's fault is a stretch. Even if 50 percent of the throws were off the mark he should still have more catches.

It seems to me that Housh is searching for excuses.
But, the stats don't show whether Housh is a good receiver or not, just that he has not been productive in the 3rd wide receiver spot. Maybe he would be more productive as a 1 or 2 but the way to have that opportunity is to be successful at the position he currently occupies.

[Pedro Rhormes]

Houshmandzadeh is not disappointed I guess, but I am. By the "status" that this guy had in Seahawks and a little bit at NFL I was expecting more than just 2 frustrating receptions in 3 games. Yes it's true, Flacco was not well against Bengals, and Jets...But he had a LOT more time to throw against browns. Maybe this should be an time-talk situation between the both.I Really expect to see Boldin 1st WideOut, Mason 2nd, Houshmandzadeh 3rd and Stallworth 4th.

Stallworth is also a nice option to ST.

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1285954591' post='493455']
When did we sign this guy? I know he was a basketball guard at Gonzaga or something.
[/quote]
Pretty funny.
I agreee with your assessment.

[big hits and ball hawks]

Housh has also said that he wasn't expecting much the first three weeks and is looking for more playimg time or passes his way this week. Too me I think that would be important to include at the start of the topic. I do think it was sort of a media trap. I'm also keeping in mind that maybe he does have an attitude but at the same time I think he's just competitive and wants the ball like everyone else. As far as the stats go I think you should include how many he dropped, how many sailed over him, and even look into him being interfered with. It's not like he dropped the 10 passes that he didn't catch. Unless he continues to drop a lot of passes or is inconsistent then I'll start to worry but for right now I'm for Housh.

I hope our opponents doubt Housh too so when they don't think he'll do anything he'll make big plays on them.

[MagicianCamille]

He's been given opportunities, he's DROPPED THEM.

[ravenanchors]

You are right in the concept that Housh would like the ball more.
That is okay, I'm sure all the receivers feel the same way.
It is probably hard for Housh to come to the Ravens after being the number 1 receiver in seattle and having to play 3rd receiver. I am sure he would like to be the 1 or 2 receiver.

Mason also, would like more catches. The difference is Mason is not complaining to the press about it.
Housh did this in CinCin and Seattle and he must have caused a big enough distraction that those teams let him go.

After only 3 weeks, Housh is starting again. Housh will not be happy being a Raven and playing 3rd receiver. He will most likely be gone before the end of the year or at the end of the season. After all, he only has a 1 year contract.
He has 1 year to prove that he wants to be a Raven, regardless of the position he plays. I don't think he wants to stay with Baltimore.

[reediddy]

It's been three weeks since he has been in Baltimore, so the opportunities will come. I'm more interested to see how he performs this Sunday against Pittsburgh. If we go into 3 WR sets (which will be essential and probably the only way we can beat this defense) Steelers will put Ike Taylor on Q, McFadden on Mase, William Gay on Housh. Housh will absolutely torch this guy. That's the matchup we have to look for and exploit. We obviously know Polamalu will be shadowing Boldin, so Flacco to Housh looks to be key. He won't be as diva after Sunday, hopefully.

[Perfekt]

The obvious answer is trade Tj to the Rams for Clayton an then we are superbowl bound. Now back to reality guys come on Tj just wants to win an be a bigger part of the offense. Hes not a locker room cancer.

[noy]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1285953461' post='493443']
The discussion of this forum is Housh's attitude.
Housh claims he is not happy with his playing time.

But as third receiver he was thrown to an appropriate amount of times compared with Mason and Bouldin. Housh has nowhere to move to in the line up because Mason says he wants to play a couple more years and if Housh is unhappy after 3 games, he will not want to hang around a couple more seasons as a number 3.

On the other hand, Stallworth probably will want to hang around as number 3 because he has a lot to prove before he can qualify as a number 2.

Neither receiver has proven anything so far this year and both need to re-establish themselves after the last year they've had. Neither player is off to a good start. Stallworth is injured and Housh is unproductive and complaining to the media. This is not the way to get a promotion to 2nd receiver. It is going to be very difficult to unseat Mason from the number 2 spot. Mason has been invaluable to the team and consistent even when injured.
[/quote]

That was some good stuff. I agree that this is about his attitude as a 3rd string WR, but let's not even attempt to understand that by analyzing statistics; I get that you were defending your argument against those saying he is a good WR, but none of that is important.

The only thing we can fault TJ for is for making these opinions public. He is clearly confused as to his role in Baltimore, but how does he or the organization benefit by making these statements to the media? He fell into the "media's trap" because he hasn't learned how to keep himself in check. That may be beneficial on the field (giving him the passion to make big plays) but it has nothing but negative consequence with the media. The media are experts at extracting drama, it's no wonder Mason has stopped dealing with them.

What we should be asking (and what should have been evaluated before signing him) is if he has the correct mindset of a 3rd stringer. History has shown that he did not like playing second fiddle to Chad in Cinci, resulting in his playing for Seattle. Drama over there resulted in him playing for us. What he needed wasn't just a contender, but a team with an established offense but in need of a true number 1. We already fulfilled that position, but the FO (I hate to say it) got greedy and saw a steal. Just because something is easily available doesn't mean you should take it. We didn't need TJ, Stallworth got injured but we still had Clayton, whose debut at 3rd string was strong.

What I'm saying is the offense used to have an identity; smashmouth football with our runningbacks. They carried us to the playoffss, but needed better results from the receivers to go all the way. What we didn't need is a complete flip in identity, becoming greedy and having an abundant amount of receiving threats, trying to look like the Colts. Teams like the Colts can handle it because that's their identity. I'm sorry but James Walker of ESPN was right; we're having difficulty keeping everybody happy. TJ was the most likely to fall first, so let me reiterate what has already been said. Are we really surprised?

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1285964046' post='493597']
That was some good stuff. I agree that this is about his attitude as a 3rd string WR, but let's not even attempt to understand that by analyzing statistics; I get that you were defending your argument against those saying he is a good WR, but none of that is important.

[/quote]
I agree, with you. The statistics are only used to show that a certain number of passes were thrown his way compared with the number 1 and number 2 receivers. Because Housh makes it sound like he is being ignored on the field. His perception obviously comes from him being the number 1 receiver and he is not adjusting to being a number 3.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1285964046' post='493597']
That was some good stuff. I agree that this is about his attitude as a 3rd string WR, but let's not even attempt to understand that by analyzing statistics; I get that you were defending your argument against those saying he is a good WR, but none of that is important.

The only thing we can fault TJ for is for making these opinions public. He is clearly confused as to his role in Baltimore, but how does he or the organization benefit by making these statements to the media? He fell into the "media's trap" because he hasn't learned how to keep himself in check. That may be beneficial on the field (giving him the passion to make big plays) but it has nothing but negative consequence with the media. The media are experts at extracting drama, it's no wonder Mason has stopped dealing with them.

What we should be asking (and what should have been evaluated before signing him) is if he has the correct mindset of a 3rd stringer. History has shown that he did not like playing second fiddle to Chad in Cinci, resulting in his playing for Seattle. Drama over there resulted in him playing for us. What he needed wasn't just a contender, but a team with an established offense but in need of a true number 1. We already fulfilled that position, but the FO (I hate to say it) got greedy and saw a steal. Just because something is easily available doesn't mean you should take it. We didn't need TJ, Stallworth got injured but we still had Clayton, whose debut at 3rd string was strong.

What I'm saying is the offense used to have an identity; smashmouth football with our runningbacks. They carried us to the playoffss, but needed better results from the receivers to go all the way. What we didn't need is a complete flip in identity, becoming greedy and having an abundant amount of receiving threats, trying to look like the Colts. Teams like the Colts can handle it because that's their identity. I'm sorry but James Walker of ESPN was right; we're having difficulty keeping everybody happy. TJ was the most likely to fall first, so let me reiterate what has already been said. Are we really surprised?
[/quote]

Very well said and part of me agrees with your last two paragraphs. What makes it worse is Cam's at-times, suspect play-calling. There'll be times when he'll call two runnings plays and on 3rd and 1, pass the ball while other times, he'll call three straight passes. Yes, the players should execute better but this team obviously runs the ball better than they pass and Cam seems to inexplicably forget once every few games.

If the teams reels off a few wins, it won't be a major issue but this team isn't ready for an identity switch in my opinion.

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

Yeah he shouldn't be disappointed. As said before, he knew he wasn't going to be the man coming here so he should only fault himself because I'm pretty sure he had other options.

I do not agree though with letting him go next year, because if we do we will go back to having one good receiver and the rest of the corps being average at best because I honestly believe Mason will be retiring soon.

[hammer]

Honestly, I hate to say this, but Housh is probably more responsible for Flacco's performance against the Bengals than Joe Himself. I personally saw Housh drop 4 passes that hit him square in the hands. Now he is complaining about not getting the pill? Pu-leeeeaase!