"Worst Single Position Group" Of SB Contenders

[hawkprey]

Now that Cutler has put up more than 116 yards against Green Bay, the Ravens have the best pass defense in the league as of week 3.

This is to shut up the naysaying we had to deal with, particularly that of Peter King.

Yes it's only week 3, but can I hear an "amen"? And with C. Batch up next, we may solidify our position deep into week 4

C'mon people, we're #1!
Also #1 in total defense. Run D... eh, I'm sure we'll work it out.
Here's an old article from the site about our secondary:
[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/09/Standing_Up_To_The_Critics.aspx"]Whoo hoo[/url]


So have we learned to trust our team yet? What is the next "worst position group" that people will call us out on? Your thoughts?

[Alexir]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1285641949' post='490296']
Now that Cutler has put up more than 116 yards against Green Bay, the Ravens have the best pass defense in the league as of week 3.

This is to shut up the naysaying we had to deal with, particularly that of Peter King.

Yes it's only week 3, but can I hear an "amen"? And with C. Batch up next, we may solidify our position deep into week 4

C'mon people, we're #1!
Also #1 in total defense. Run D... eh, I'm sure we'll work it out.
Here's an old article from the site about our secondary:
[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/09/Standing_Up_To_The_Critics.aspx"]Whoo hoo[/url]


So have we learned to trust our team yet? What is the next "worst position group" that people will call us out on? Your thoughts?
[/quote]

They will definitely take shots at our run defense, which I don't blame them because we aren't playing like the normal Ravens Run defense in years past.

Other than that I can see Cam Cameron taking shots.

P.S. I cant wait til we get Ed Reed's Pro bowl future Hall of fame butt back into that secondary. Not a huge fan of Zibby back there, Nakamura anyone?

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1285643034' post='490323']
They will definitely take shots at our run defense, which I don't blame them because we aren't playing like the normal Ravens Run defense in years past.

Other than that I can see Cam Cameron taking shots.

P.S. I cant wait til we get Ed Reed's Pro bowl future Hall of fame butt back into that secondary. Not a huge fan of Zibby back there, [b]Nakamura anyone?[/b]
[/quote]
I'd be down. Zibby hasn't impressed me (and I love Haruki). However, I don't think whoever we put back there is going to impress much since we are all subconciously comparing them to Ed Reed.

The secondary as a whole has played really well...albeit not against great offenses yet. I'd put Cincinatti right on the cusp of the top 10 I guess. Can't complain about the secondary so far though and am very pleasantly surprised. Now, if we could only generate some turnovers...

[big hits and ball hawks]

I didn't want to compare Zibby to Reed during this time but I can honestly say I have, especially on missed opportunities that Zibby has missed, particularly that dropped pick against the bengals which would've been a pick 6 if he had got it. All I could think was how Reed would've had it. Okay, not dwelling on that anymore. Zibby is a solid player but Reed has a presence that just makes everyone else want to play better much like Ray Lewis. The turnovers will come in our favor eventually, hopefully this upcoming game. Once Reed comes back though I think it's just gonna make our secondary play all around better. I'm not opposed to Nakamura getting safety time either.

Anyway, I'm really liking this topic. I couldn't wait for the team to prove all the doubters wrong.

[MagicianCamille]

It's funny, we were #2 in total defense last week while the Steelers were either fifth or sixth, but ESPN AFC North blogger James Walker posted an article about how the Steelers had the league's best defense. He cited no statistics in that article of course, or else it'd be obvious he was incorrect.

Not to rag on James Walker, he's my favorite sports blogger, but it did annoy me quite a bit considering ya know, the facts.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' timestamp='1285647432' post='490415']
It's funny, we were #2 in total defense last week while the Steelers were either fifth or sixth, but ESPN AFC North blogger James Walker posted an article about how the Steelers had the league's best defense. He cited no statistics in that article of course, or else it'd be obvious he was incorrect.

Not to rag on James Walker, he's my favorite sports blogger, but it did annoy me quite a bit considering ya know, the facts.
[/quote]

We are now #1 in Pass D, Total D, 3rd down conversions and percentage, and 1st downs allowed. And that's against what looks to be decent Browns and Bengals offenses and a pretty good Jets offense (surprisingly). Since it's only week 3, the stats are ridiculously spread out because teams like the Raiders (#2) have faced QB's with a total experience of like 5 years.

Steelers have the advantage in turnovers. That's it really.

[pits200]

Just giving you some factual information.

Week 2 against the Titans, the Steelers went into a complete prevent when they were up by 16 and didn't play aggressive like they did the entire game. The Titans went on to score and racked up many yards in the final 4 minutes.

Week 3 against the Bucs. Same scenario but with an even bigger lead, the Steelers pulled all their starters for the last 7 minutes of the game and let the Bucs rack up some garbage yardage against them.


That is why stats are misleading, I guess it all depends on the time when things take place whether it is important or not. And to compare the Falcons/Titans/Bucs to the Jets/Bengals/Browns offense isnt really on the same playing field.

I think the final consensus can be that both teams have top notch defenses that always are represented in the top 5 of the league.

[SteelerEmpire]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1285648861' post='490425']
We are now #1 in Pass D, Total D, 3rd down conversions and percentage, and 1st downs allowed. And that's against what looks to be decent Browns and Bengals offenses and a pretty good Jets offense (surprisingly). Since it's only week 3, the stats are ridiculously spread out because teams like the Raiders (#2) have faced QB's with a total experience of like 5 years.
[b]
Steelers have the advantage in turnovers.[/b] That's it really.
[/quote]
And least points given up per game.... woo hoo. In addition, close to 200 yds worth of give and 14 points (2 TD's) came when the team went into "prevent" defense and took out several starters (including Troy P.) late in the last 2 games when the other team had no real way of winning....

[Jabara]

[quote name='SteelerEmpire' timestamp='1285658366' post='490464']
And least points given up per game.... woo hoo. In addition, close to 200 yds worth of give and 14 points (2 TD's) came when the team went into "prevent" defense and took out several starters (including Troy P.) late in the last 2 games when the other team had no real way of winning....
[/quote]
Alright Buddy, this is it. You know when you tested that giant monstrosity of a sig and got a neg for it, that was me...

I encourage fans of other teams to join this site and be respectful, it adds to a good, healthy discussion, among other positive things. I like it. But that sig is a slap in the face.
Of course it's apparently allowed, but really you are on another team's site, with the biggest sig I've ever seen, while promoting the biggest rival of the Ravens.
I'd take the Warden's sig over yours any day. His is actually tasteful.
No offense meant, it's all in good fun.
I'm just stating my monstrosity of an opinion of your monstrosity of a sig.

And your little banana too...

[SteelerEmpire]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1285660218' post='490467']
Alright Buddy, this is it. You know when you tested that giant monstrosity of a sig and got a neg for it, that was me...

I encourage fans of other teams to join this site and be respectful, it adds to a good, healthy discussion, among other positive things. I like it. But that sig is a slap in the face.
Of course it's apparently allowed, but really you are on another team's site, with the biggest sig I've ever seen, while promoting the biggest rival of the Ravens.
I'd take the Warden's sig over yours any day. His is actually tasteful.
No offense meant, it's all in good fun.
I'm just stating my monstrosity of an opinion of your monstrosity of a sig.
And your little banana too.
[/quote]

Thanks... lol... Now I know I have a 'good' sig... lol...

[Jabara]

I think it's the whatchacall it on the L that gets me.

Anyways, we're going to see football as it is intended to be played this Sunday.
Good Luck.
Even without Ben, I think you have the edge being at home.
It's an important game for us, since we've played 2 division games already.
It's strange the Steelers haven't yet.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1285648861' post='490425']
We are now #1 in Pass D, Total D, 3rd down conversions and percentage, and 1st downs allowed. And that's against what looks to be decent Browns and Bengals offenses and a pretty good Jets offense (surprisingly). Since it's only week 3, the stats are ridiculously spread out because teams like the Raiders (#2) have faced QB's with a total experience of like 5 years.

Steelers have the advantage in turnovers. That's it really.
[/quote]

Scoring. Steelers have the advantage in points allowed. Of course, they haven't really faced any offenses either.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

There will always be somebody out there that will take shots at Flacco being 'unreliable' or 'cracks under pressure' because of his bad outing in Cincy, no matter how well he plays for the next couple of weeks. The secondary has been fine, in that we haven't been torched so far, the lack of turnovers is a slight down though. (When Reed gets back that should pick up)

[edreedfromtheu]

Don't worry about what people are saying. The national media is just SLOW and behind the times.

See, all of Ravens fans were panicking in the middle of summer because everything we heard was that... Fabian Washington was no lock to be back for start of season. And Lardarius Webb would probably miss the first half of the season.

It ended up being the complete opposite, where they both were practicing and Fabian even got some time in a couple preseason games. Lardarius was practicing for multiple weeks before the season opener. And on top of all of that, we signed Josh Wilson. I haven't been worried about the secondary since seeing how fast Fabian and Lardarius got healthy. The National media didn't know about it, and was just going off of how they looked late last year.

But hey, it wouldn't be Baltimore if they weren't talking bad about us, right?

It's RAVENS/STEELERS week! EVERYBODY READY?!?!?

[funky141]

[quote]Falcons/Titans/Bucs to the Jets/Bengals/Browns[/quote]

Where is there a passing offense in these six? Yes the secondary has played well so far but I want to see them againts the Saints, Broncos and other teams that throw more than run. Then we can cast a judgment.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1285685496' post='490571']
Don't worry about what people are saying. The national media is just SLOW and behind the times.

See, all of Ravens fans were panicking in the middle of summer because everything we heard was that... Fabian Washington was no lock to be back for start of season. And Lardarius Webb would probably miss the first half of the season.

It ended up being the complete opposite, where they both were practicing and Fabian even got some time in a couple preseason games. Lardarius was practicing for multiple weeks before the season opener. And on top of all of that, we signed Josh Wilson. I haven't been worried about the secondary since seeing how fast Fabian and Lardarius got healthy. The National media didn't know about it, and was just going off of how they looked late last year.

But hey, it wouldn't be Baltimore if they weren't talking bad about us, right?

It's RAVENS/STEELERS week! EVERYBODY READY?!?!?
[/quote]


...says the man who suggested we trade Ray Rice for a cornerback. Memory loss?

[TSizzle00]

I'll tell you one thing I wish they would stop showing Ed Reed on the sidelines everytime Zibby makes a tackle. People need to stop expecting Ed Reed when Zbbikowski is on the field. Hes solid.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='pits200' timestamp='1285652096' post='490442']
Just giving you some factual information.

Week 2 against the Titans, the Steelers went into a complete prevent when they were up by 16 and didn't play aggressive like they did the entire game. The Titans went on to score and racked up many yards in the final 4 minutes.

Week 3 against the Bucs. Same scenario but with an even bigger lead, the Steelers pulled all their starters for the last 7 minutes of the game and let the Bucs rack up some garbage yardage against them.
[/quote]

Excuses excuses...

We've only played 3 games. It is yet to be seen if the teams you played are in fact the worst 3 offenses in the league or even the best 3. No one knows. But right now, on the RAVENS board, the RAVENS are #1. Did I mention this is about our secondary and not overall D?

But wait, where are the Steelers in pass defense? Ah right, 17th in the league.

[pits200]

Not sure what your last post was really about but I think its safe to say that Atlanta and Tennessee have pretty strong offenses.

Atlanta (7th highest scoring offense even after playing the Steelers)
Week 1 9 pts vs Steelers
Week 2 41 pts
Week 3 27 pts

Titans (5th highest scoring offense even after playing the Steelers)
Week 1 38 pts
Week 2 11 pts vs Steelers
Week 3 29 pts

Tampa Bay (24th in total scoring) We know they're bad



And you do know that teams who tend to have a td or more lead (like the steelers have had in the past 2 games) end up having skewed passing against numbers because the other team has to abandon the run. I'll take 17th in the league in that stat if it means the Steelers have a comfortable lead and want to sit back and let the other team dink and dunk 7 yards passes down the field.


Im not sure why you feel Im arguing with you. Im not defending the Steelers, Im not making excuses, this is just logic if you look at the big picture. As for the Ravens and the teams they've played

Jets (11th in total scoring)
Bengals (16th in total scoring)
Browns (27th in total scoring)

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='TSizzle00' timestamp='1285687312' post='490593']
I'll tell you one thing I wish they would stop showing Ed Reed on the sidelines everytime Zibby makes a tackle. People need to stop expecting Ed Reed when Zbbikowski is on the field. Hes solid.
[/quote]

Agreed. I know the cameramen are trying to make a point but it's getting annoying.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='pits200' timestamp='1285690935' post='490628']
Not sure what your last post was really about but I think its safe to say that Atlanta and Tennessee have pretty strong offenses.

Atlanta (7th highest scoring offense even after playing the Steelers)
Week 1 9 pts vs Steelers
Week 2 41 pts
Week 3 27 pts

Titans (5th highest scoring offense even after playing the Steelers)
Week 1 38 pts
Week 2 11 pts vs Steelers
Week 3 29 pts

Tampa Bay (24th in total scoring) We know they're bad



And you do know that teams who tend to have a td or more lead (like the steelers have had in the past 2 games) end up having skewed passing against numbers because the other team has to abandon the run. I'll take 17th in the league in that stat if it means the Steelers have a comfortable lead and want to sit back and let the other team dink and dunk 7 yards passes down the field.


Im not sure why you feel Im arguing with you. Im not defending the Steelers, Im not making excuses, this is just logic if you look at the big picture. As for the Ravens and the teams they've played

Jets (11th in total scoring)
Bengals (16th in total scoring)
Browns (27th in total scoring)
[/quote]

You can't use those statistics accurately because those teams have only played 2 other games. That means you'd have to figure out how good of a defense they played in the other 2 games, and how good THAT defense is based on the offense of the other teams THEY played...

It's complicated to say. Just look:

I can say the Titans and Falcons only look like high-scoring defenses because of the other teams they've played so far. Aside from playing the Steelers, the Titans and Falcons have both played defenses (Raiders, Cardinals, Giants, Saints) that give up lots of points. 3 of them in the top 10. The other team (the Saints) played 2 of the lowest-scoring teams, thus making them "appear" to give up only few points...


You understand how convoluted these stats get? Can't we just wait a week?

[thewarden86]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1285641949' post='490296']
Now that Cutler has put up more than 116 yards against Green Bay, the Ravens have the best pass defense in the league as of week 3.

This is to shut up the naysaying we had to deal with, particularly that of Peter King.

Yes it's only week 3, but can I hear an "amen"? [b]And with C. Batch up next, we may solidify our position deep into week 4 [/b]

C'mon people, we're #1!
Also #1 in total defense. Run D... eh, I'm sure we'll work it out.
Here's an old article from the site about our secondary:
[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/09/Standing_Up_To_The_Critics.aspx"]Whoo hoo[/url]


So have we learned to trust our team yet? What is the next "worst position group" that people will call us out on? Your thoughts?
[/quote]

So you admit that, as long as you're not challenged, you think you're position is legitimate???

Not that I give a dang for stats, but at least over the course of a 16 game season they'll begin to show what the truth is.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' timestamp='1285647432' post='490415']
It's funny, we were #2 in total defense last week while the Steelers were either fifth or sixth, but ESPN AFC North blogger James Walker posted an article about how the Steelers had the league's best defense. He cited no statistics in that article of course, or else it'd be obvious he was incorrect.

Not to rag on James Walker, he's my favorite sports blogger, but it did annoy me quite a bit considering ya know, the facts.
[/quote]

Turnovers are a good indication. Points are probably the best though. Yards are misleading to me. Like where you guys claim to have the best pass defense when no one is throwing the ball. That's an important fact to me. It's also one that discounts any garbage stat.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1285689975' post='490618']
Excuses excuses...

We've only played 3 games. It is yet to be seen if the teams you played are in fact the worst 3 offenses in the league or even the best 3. No one knows. But right now, on the RAVENS board, the RAVENS are #1. Did I mention this is about our secondary and not overall D?

But wait, where are the Steelers in pass defense? Ah right, 17th in the league.
[/quote]

The teams we've played so far have scored: Falcons (77), The Titans (78) and T.B. (50) for a [b]total of 205 points[/b]. We allowed a combined [b]27 of these points[/b].

The teams you've played so far have scored: Jets (68), Bengals (59) and the Browns (35) for a [b]total of 162 points[/b]. You've surrendered a combined [b]41 of those points.[/b]

STATISTICALLY, we've played better teams and have handled them better than your teams who were not as good.

[big hits and ball hawks]

At the end of the day it won't matter who we have played, the stats we put up, or our rankings. What does matter though is getting the win. I believe this applys to both Ravens and Steelers. We'll just wait until the end of the season to see how we match up in the stats and rankings. Right now we should be preparing for another nail biter and getting ready to cheer on which ever team we each, respectfully, cheer for.

I've been very impressed with how respectful for the most part fans of different teams, especially the Steelers' fans, have been on here. However, it appears things are gonna get heated during the times we play each other and I wouldn't expect anything less. I just hope everyone stays respectful on both sides and will just enjoy this football season no matter the outcome.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='big hits and ball hawks' timestamp='1285712005' post='490889']
At the end of the day it won't matter who we have played, the stats we put up, or our rankings. What does matter though is getting the win. I believe this applys to both Ravens and Steelers. We'll just wait until the end of the season to see how we match up in the stats and rankings. Right now we should be preparing for another nail biter and getting ready to cheer on which ever team we each, respectfully, cheer for.

I've been very impressed with how respectful for the most part fans of different teams, especially the Steelers' fans, have been on here. However, it appears things are gonna get heated during the times we play each other and I wouldn't expect anything less. I just hope everyone stays respectful on both sides and will just enjoy this football season no matter the outcome.
[/quote]

Good post. I agree with all of it.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1285710081' post='490868']
[b]So you admit that, as long as you're not challenged, you think you're position is legitimate???[/b]

Not that I give a dang for stats, but at least over the course of a 16 game season they'll begin to show what the truth is.
[/quote]

I think that's missing the point. I started this thread because we were supposed to have the worst position group of all the "elite" teams, and it turns out that right now it's solid. It's like if the Bills went 3-0. I never said the Ravens are the D of the year, I said they're #1 currently.


[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1285710965' post='490881']
The teams we've played so far have scored: Falcons (77), The Titans (78) and T.B. (50) for a [b]total of 205 points[/b]. We allowed a combined [b]27 of these points[/b].

The teams you've played so far have scored: Jets (68), Bengals (59) and the Browns (35) for a [b]total of 162 points[/b]. You've surrendered a combined [b]41 of those points.[/b]

STATISTICALLY, we've played better teams and have handled them better than your teams who were not as good.
[/quote]

If you look at one of the old threads I started about pass D from 09, I used some of these arguments to prove why the Ravens were actually better than the Jets. I got replies like "Well you're just manipulating the stats so they're in your favor". Right. Now if I had to pick the "best defense" as of week 3, I'd say it's the Steelers too. But there are too many variables that we can't account for. Specific matchup problems, run vs pass tendencies, "off" games, styles of defense...

As I posted earlier, counting the points allowed by the teams we played doesn't account for the fact that those teams might've just racked up points against weaker teams. And how do we know those teams are actually "weaker"? Well we'd have to look at the teams THEY played.

Both our teams have D stats that are ridiculously low averages for a full 16 game season. I mean, 116 passing yards per game? Pfft! Both our stats are going to look more reasonable as the season continues.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1285712322' post='490893']
I think that's missing the point. I started this thread because we were supposed to have the worst position group of all the "elite" teams, and it turns out that right now it's solid. It's like if the Bills went 3-0. I never said the Ravens are the D of the year, I said they're #1 currently.




If you look at one of the old threads I started about pass D from 09, I used some of these arguments to prove why the Ravens were actually better than the Jets. I got replies like "Well you're just manipulating the stats so they're in your favor". Right. Now if I had to pick the "best defense" as of week 3, I'd say it's the Steelers too. But there are too many variables that we can't account for. Specific matchup problems, run vs pass tendencies, "off" games, styles of defense...

As I posted earlier, counting the points allowed by the teams we played doesn't account for the fact that those teams might've just racked up points against weaker teams. And how do we know those teams are actually "weaker"? Well we'd have to look at the teams THEY played.

Both our teams have D stats that are ridiculously low averages for a full 16 game season. I mean, 116 passing yards per game? Pfft! Both our stats are going to look more reasonable as the season continues.
[/quote]

Okay, fair enough.

Personally, I HATE stats. Most of these folks will tell you that.
And it's mainly because you CAN manipulate them to serve your own purpose in most cases.

I can tell you this, I can't remember a Steelers defense this dominant in 30 years....and we've fielded some good ones.

[MagicianCamille]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1285685785' post='490575']
Where is there a passing offense in these six? Yes the secondary has played well so far but I want to see them againts the Saints, Broncos and other teams that throw more than run. Then we can cast a judgment.
[/quote]

Jets? Falcons? Bengals? These aren't passing offenses?

[thewarden86]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' timestamp='1285713855' post='490912']
[b]Jets?[/b] Falcons? Bengals? These aren't passing offenses?
[/quote]

Are you saying the Jets used their passing offense against the Ravens? Because I'm pretty sure that every Jet fan, commentator and football radio personality in the NFL were asking why Schottenheimer refused to take the training wheels off Sanchez for that game.