NFL's Top 100 Greatest Players 61-70

[Alexir]

Actually surprised TO didnt make the list...

[Ed_Reed20]

Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor are two more locks. Paul Krause could certainly make make it too.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1288325268' post='523222']
Actually surprised TO didnt make the list...
[/quote]

I am somewhat too I.

It's funny because he was recently voted the NFL's most overrated player but is quietly having a Pro Bowl year.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1288325294' post='523223']
Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor are two more locks. Paul Krause could certainly make make it too.
[/quote]

Reggie White would be the 8th "lock". Leaving 2 spots between Krause and Butkus.

[Alexir]

Don Hutson? He could make it. It will definitely be interesting.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1288326690' post='523230']
Reggie White would be the 8th "lock". Leaving 2 spots between Krause and Butkus.
[/quote]

I don't see how either could be left off the list but...

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1288326733' post='523231']
Don Hutson? He could make it. It will definitely be interesting.
[/quote]

...I completely forgot about Hutson. I remember Peter King writing about how he was the best WR in football history.

I can't wait for next Thursday.

[benravens1]

i'm still amazed that Emmitt Smith was so low down. when you hold so many rushing records you'd expect him to be higher.

has anyone mentioned paul krause to make the top ten?

Edit: just seen Ed_Reed20's post.

[MsMarvel73]

OMG I bet the peeps in NE are pissed....Favre over Tom Bieber.

Ray ray #18....Anthony Munoz #12

This is the segment I really wanted to watch...and couldn't

[True]

I'd say for the thousands and thousands of players who played in the NFL to have Ray Lewis at #17 is quite a remarkable accomplishment. Over 50 years and when you ask someone "who is the best LB in NFL history" is name is bound to come up 1-3 names. That's just a remarkable feat and great for the Ravens to have his name enshrined in their franchise.

I think the panel had some old timers bias with players like Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus. They were great players for their era, but their career resumes don't warrant them to be so high in the top 100.

I am also surprised that TO didn't make the top 100. Disregarding his personality he is one hell of a player who is arguably the second best WR behind Jerry Rice. If they can include players like OJ Simpson and Lawrence Taylor who didn't exactly lead perfect personal lives, I'm sure he deserves a spot as well.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PARavensgirl' timestamp='1288367370' post='523343']
OMG I bet the peeps in NE are pissed....Favre over Tom Bieber.

Ray ray #18....Anthony Munoz #12

This is the segment I really wanted to watch...and couldn't
[/quote]

Munoz's segment hasn't been uploaded by anyone yet but here's Ray's.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si2G-ihBFmg[/media]

[MsMarvel73]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1288369146' post='523365']
Munoz's segment hasn't been uploaded by anyone yet but here's Ray's.
[/quote]


*sniff* Thanks. That was awesome.

[SaVaGe]

I'd assume there are linebackers ahead of Ray, but there shouldn't be. Ray was/is playing in an age where players are bigger, faster, and stronger and he used to bring these guys down before they crossed the line of scrimmage. There is NO linebacker better then Ray Lewis in his prime and that is just a fact. That though is just what he does for himself, for he also inspires the rest of the team to play at a much higher level. How many times do you see the defense faltering, and for him to go out there and rile them up and then they make a big play. The only thing better then Ray Lewis would be a terminator sent from the future to play football.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='SaVaGe' timestamp='1288370108' post='523378']
I'd assume there are linebackers ahead of Ray, but there shouldn't be. Ray was/is playing in an age where players are bigger, faster, and stronger and he used to bring these guys down before they crossed the line of scrimmage. [b]There is NO linebacker better then Ray Lewis in his prime and that is just a fact.[/b] That though is just what he does for himself, for he also inspires the rest of the team to play at a much higher level. How many times do you see the defense faltering, and for him to go out there and rile them up and then they make a big play. The only thing better then Ray Lewis would be a terminator sent from the future to play football.
[/quote]

I love Ray but that's an opinion.

As much as I admire Ray, I don't have a problem with L.T. being ahead of him. Ray did things people had rarely seen from the MLB position but Taylor actually changed the game.

[MsMarvel73]

And they used footage of two of my most favorite Rayray moments:

Eddie George and


jacking up Darren Sproles.

[purple_pride]

i thought he would be top 10. maybe i should layoff the kool aid

[XxSizzleXx]

That video gives me some chills.

[MsMarvel73]

Ugh now a friend of mine is arguing through Facebook that Ray shouldn't be in the top 20 at all.

[XxSizzleXx]

Ask him/her to name the other 6 defensive players that have won Super Bowl MVP. I'd just smile ha.

[MsMarvel73]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' timestamp='1288383382' post='523503']
Ask him/her to name the other 6 defensive players that have won Super Bowl MVP. I'd just smile ha.
[/quote]

Here's his argument (and he would kill me if he knew I was posting this):

[i]No, I cant say that. The Short list has Lewis, LT, Derrick Thomas, Butkus and Bronco Nagurski. I'd say Ray is probably 2nd behind LT all time at LB.

My point is that, the MLB, while he runs the the defense, he doesn't put points on the board, and that diminishes his overall importance, in terms of where he ranks. What I am saying is that you can't put the best LB ahead of the top 5-10 QBs, top 3-5 WRs, and the top-5-10 RBs in importance. Was he a key piece of arguably the best defense ever? Absolutely. Did he win a Super Bowl based on his leading that defense? Yes. Does that make him a top 20 all-timer? I dont think so.

Just off the top of my head, the following have to be considered to be a better singular player than Lewis:

Montana, Brady, Manning, Favre (Ugh, I hate saying that), Elway, Marino, Unitas, Starr

E Smith, Payton, Dickerson, M Faulk, Thurman Thomas

Rice, Bruce, Carter, Largent, A Reed, A Monk...

I think all of those are sure fire...that puts us at 20 at least...then there is the group of people he is on par with, including:

Jim Kelly, Lawrence Taylor, Deion Sanders (He put a lot of points up on the board for those Cowboys defenses), T.O. (2nd all time in yards and catches), Bruce Smith, Reggie White...

So I have a hard time seeing him as a top-20 overall player, mainly because he didnt put up massive individual numbers. And yes...that does count. (anticpating your argument) You're right, leadership cant be measured, but statistics cant be denied. And you also have to look at the fact that he probably isnt the best LB of all time (LT definintely, DT and he are probably even)...

But the the point, if you're always going to have loyalty and emotion override logic and objecticism, then there is no use even having the discussion.

Besides...if leadership makes someone a top-20 player, I could say Munoz (best O-lineman ever) should be up there, but he's not even a top 75 guy.[/i]

[XxSizzleXx]

It looks like he is obviously an offensive guy, and his reason for not having Ray in the top 20 'because he doesn't put points on the board' is preposterous. Show him that video where it shows Ray taking the ball away from Eddie George in the playoffs and then ask if the MLB doesn't put points on the board. Ray has played at a consistent All-Pro level for his entire career, and in the big games he usually steps up, which is why he is #18 of the greatest players of all time.

Sounds like a bit of jealousy, Andre Reed better than Ray Lewis? For real?

[Ed_Reed20]

That's a pathetic argument.

Does he know in football, you have guys paid to score points and another set of guys paid to prevent them from doing that?

[hawkprey]

That's exactly why he should be higher. Ray doesn't have the benefit of putting up big numbers because of his position. Instead, people are forced to look at the way he plays the game - and that alone got him to #18.

[MsMarvel73]

I tried to tell him all that but he said [b]I[/b] was the one being stubborn.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PARavensgirl' timestamp='1288389853' post='523552']
I tried to tell him all that but he said [b]I[/b] was the one being stubborn.
[/quote]

He's entitled to his opinion. As the list shows shows though, he's in the minority.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='PARavensgirl' timestamp='1288383522' post='523504']
Here's his argument (and he would kill me if he knew I was posting this):

[i]No, I cant say that. The Short list has Lewis, LT, Derrick Thomas, Butkus and Bronco Nagurski. I'd say Ray is probably 2nd behind LT all time at LB.

My point is that, the MLB, while he runs the the defense, he doesn't put points on the board, and that diminishes his overall importance, in terms of where he ranks. What I am saying is that you can't put the best LB ahead of the top 5-10 QBs, top 3-5 WRs, and the top-5-10 RBs in importance. Was he a key piece of arguably the best defense ever? Absolutely. Did he win a Super Bowl based on his leading that defense? Yes. Does that make him a top 20 all-timer? I dont think so.

Just off the top of my head, the following have to be considered to be a better singular player than Lewis:

Montana, Brady, Manning, Favre (Ugh, I hate saying that), Elway, Marino, Unitas, Starr

E Smith, Payton, Dickerson, M Faulk, Thurman Thomas

Rice, Bruce, Carter, Largent, A Reed, A Monk...

I think all of those are sure fire...that puts us at 20 at least...then there is the group of people he is on par with, including:

Jim Kelly, Lawrence Taylor, Deion Sanders (He put a lot of points up on the board for those Cowboys defenses), T.O. (2nd all time in yards and catches), Bruce Smith, Reggie White...

So I have a hard time seeing him as a top-20 overall player, mainly because he didnt put up massive individual numbers. And yes...that does count. (anticpating your argument) You're right, leadership cant be measured, but statistics cant be denied. And you also have to look at the fact that he probably isnt the best LB of all time (LT definintely, DT and he are probably even)...

But the the point, if you're always going to have loyalty and emotion override logic and objecticism, then there is no use even having the discussion.

Besides...if leadership makes someone a top-20 player, I could say Munoz (best O-lineman ever) should be up there, but he's not even a top 75 guy.[/i]
[/quote]

That's actually a good argument. For the record, I'm in the fence; I can probably be convinced either way.

[Ed_Reed20]

I was reading what the guy wrote earlier on my phone and sitting in front a computer now, I'm just laughing at the post.

Steve Largent, Art Monk, Cris Carter, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas, Bart Starr and Favre were/are better singular players than Ray? Why? Because they "put up points"? Please...

[Bltravens]

Munoz was listed at #12 or #11 what the hell is he talking about.

[GTRavens]

Putting up points doesn't make you more important to the team and it certainly doesn't make you "better." That's ridiculous. They just happen to be the guys who have the ball in their hands. The phrase "defense wins championships" was coined for a reason. If you give the 32 GMs a choice between Ray Lewis and Andre Reed, none of them will vote because they'll all die from laughter beforehand.

[Bltravens]

His argument bases more importance on offensive players in the NFL, the exact route Goodell has taken. And I hate Goodell for playing to the offense more and more every year...vis a vis I hate your friend lol.

[berad]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1288403722' post='523639']
His argument bases more importance on offensive players in the NFL, the exact route Goodell has taken. And I hate Goodell for playing to the offense more and more every year...vis a vis I hate your friend lol.
[/quote]

It's not all bad. I, personally, like the new force-out rule where there is no judgement involved, the ball has to have two feet in-bounds to actually make a reception/interception. But, yes, the offense has the advantage, rule-wise.