Flacco's Woes Against The Zone

[Year of the Raven]

Where do I begin...it is now clear to all of the teams in the NFL how to stop Flacco's offense. It's called stop Ray Rice and play zone. Yesterday Flacco had no clue what he was doing against the zone, sure Monday night he did fine against the Jets, but thats because they were playing man to man defense against Q and company. Sunday all the Bengals tried to do was play zone and stop Ray Rice. Guess what coverage the Bengals were playing when Flacco threw that touchdown pass to Mason...They were playing man D on Mason. Flacco will beat that all day long. Next drive they switch to zone, and just like that Flacco is lost to oblivion again....
The good thing is every D in the wazooo will probably do that to Flacco, and he should be able to figure that out eventually, if not, bring in Bulger (God forbid it ever comes to that). Bulger may be better now, but Flacco should eventually be better than Bulger ever was...A major advantage Flacco has over Bulger is pressure situations,,,plain and simple...Flacco doesent choke under pressure and Bulger has been questionable under pressure.....Don't get me wrong Bulger can do the job, but if and when Joe figures it out,it will be better for the future and the franchise

so now isn't the time to jump on the Bulger bandwagon,but if Flacco doesent figure out a way to beat the zone, then his Hall of Fame career will be put off until further notice

[Bltravens]

I appreciate the optimism as I too wont throw Flacco into the garbage can right now, he played bad yes, but hes the guy still. However Flacco, same as Bulger, has not exactly thrived in pressure situations either.

[kash96ravenstotalfan]

OMG - Hope this doesn't start another bench Flacco response. I don't believe Joe will be replaced by Bulger unless Joe is injured. I have made a similar response on several threads. Joe is not solely responsible for the poor O performance. O line was shaky, receivers were not getting open and Cam's play-calling was not great. Why did Cam not resort to the running game when it was clear that our passing attack was struggling? Looking forward to the home opener next Sunday. Go Ravens

[Year of the Raven]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1285025311' post='484334']
I appreciate the optimism as I too wont throw Flacco into the garbage can right now, he played bad yes, but hes the guy still. However Flacco, same as Bulger, has not exactly thrived in pressure situations either.
[/quote]


yea, your right he hasn't thrived under pressure, I just don't think pressure is the reason why, I think its because he still has to get better at reading defenses and making his reads, instead of getting confused

[CapoRocky]

There may come a time when bench Flacco becomes a viable option to save the season. I was highly impressed with how Bulger drove the ball in preseason. Flacco gets happy feet under pressure and doesn't step up to throw the ball. His throws on the run or off of the back foot end up sailing high over the intended target. Where is the zip that he had on the ball in the past 2 years? So far, all we've seen is that high school lob pass.

[hawkprey]

Zone coverage is why we need Stallworth. He can not only stretch the field, but he causes defenses to HONOR his speed. That would bring back a corner, a safety, and possibly adjust second safety in our favor.

[i82much]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1285025311' post='484334']
I appreciate the optimism as I too wont throw Flacco into the garbage can right now, he played bad yes, but hes the guy still. However Flacco, same as Bulger, has not exactly thrived in pressure situations either.
[/quote]

Not sure whether we're referring to "pressure" as in big games, 4th-quarter drives, etc. or pressure on the QB. Flacco seems alright when being blitzed. And he's done alright being blitzed in some "pressure" situations. But he hasn't done alright against teams that rely on the D-line to get pressure and drop everyone else into coverage.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='i82much' timestamp='1285036173' post='484584']
Not sure whether we're referring to "pressure" as in big games, 4th-quarter drives, etc. or pressure on the QB. Flacco seems alright when being blitzed. And he's done alright being blitzed in some "pressure" situations. But he hasn't done alright against teams that rely on the D-line to get pressure and drop everyone else into coverage.
[/quote]
Ya I took it as pressure moments in big games.

[Jabara]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1285026285' post='484362']
There may come a time when bench Flacco becomes a viable option to save the season. I was highly impressed with how Bulger drove the ball in preseason. Flacco gets happy feet under pressure and doesn't step up to throw the ball. His throws on the run or off of the back foot end up sailing high over the intended target. Where is the zip that he had on the ball in the past 2 years? So far, all we've seen is that high school lob pass.
[/quote]
I love this one.
People watch one preseason game, when Bulger is in and executing a 2 min offense, and all of a sudden, he's a star QB.
His release is so quick, man he gets that ball out quickly, he's the answer. We're fools for thinking Flacco is our QB when he is only throwing a, "high school lob pass."

Seriously, I'm going to have to stop there...
Nothing else good could come out of the way I feel about this issue.

Congratulations for watching one preseason drive and allowing that to be your knowledgeable insight.

[Moisty]

I really do want to come back and read some of these threads if we're scrambling to salvage this season five or six games before it's over. You cant give this boy Flacco too many more excuses. Rookie year and Sophomore Year are over. He needs to step up and be a big boy. QB's that are considered "elite" dont need half a season to get momentum and finally contribute enough to win games.

I've stuck up for him for both of those years but after all of this improvement on both sides of the ball, for him to go out and play that poorly is getting depressing. Everyone is so worried about his feelings...he makes more in a year than more will ever see in a lifetime to be our leader. Im still not seeing one after twiddling my thumbs after all this time.

Flacco is teamed up with some of the best Wideouts and an amazing run game. We have some O-Line issues, but please do not blame that solely on his poor performance. Do I need to bring in Roethlisberger's name into this? That man has the ability to put the game into his hands and come out with a win. He didn't need multiple "training" seasons to do so either.

It's my duty as a fan to voice my displeasure where I see fit. Im not ready to boot Flacco from the team but im so sick and tired of every "fan" defending this man to the death and thinking he's Raven Jesus or something. He's proving himself more and more that he's still merely at BEST an average QB.

I'll be totally fair and say he's the best Quarterback that's played for this team. I just want everyone to walk off that Wacko for Flacco craze and start seeing things for how they really are. He's as much of a liability as he is a contributor. He'll come in next week and blow Cleveland away and play like he did in New England Wild Card game the following. Reminds me of Cutler.

I cant see Cutler winning a Super Bowl for his team. And I feel that same way about Flacco. He may play well enough to coast us there, mainly because we have a defense that can literally shutout teams but when that time comes where it's in Flacco's hands to win us that big game I get flashbacks of that Divisional Game at home against Indy.

Im gonna get negged like hell for this, but thats what I think about this situation. I dont have a solution because I dont think Bulger is quite what we need either to take us far. I'd only really put him in to scare the **** out of Joe, which right about now im not going to fight.

This IS coming from a Ravens fan, and I can be a fan however I choose. It's called having an opinion. If you wanna beat your chest like a brainless Steeler fan and call me a fair weather fan thats cool. If im wrong about all of this, I'll be glad to admit it when Joe takes the ball in hand and wins us the Conference Championships. And I REALLY wanna see some reactions in here if Flacco comes short and we miss the playoffs.....there's always next year for him to get better, right?

[Jabara]

[quote name='Moisty' timestamp='1285055672' post='484732']
I really do want to come back and read some of these threads if we're scrambling to salvage this season five or six games before it's over. You cant give this boy Flacco too many more excuses. Rookie year and Sophomore Year are over. He needs to step up and be a big boy. QB's that are considered "elite" dont need half a season to get momentum and finally contribute enough to win games.

I've stuck up for him for both of those years but after all of this improvement on both sides of the ball, for him to go out and play that poorly is getting depressing. Everyone is so worried about his feelings...he makes more in a year than more will ever see in a lifetime to be our leader. Im still not seeing one after twiddling my thumbs after all this time.

Flacco is teamed up with some of the best Wideouts and an amazing run game. We have some O-Line issues, but please do not blame that solely on his poor performance. Do I need to bring in Roethlisberger's name into this? That man has the ability to put the game into his hands and come out with a win. He didn't need multiple "training" seasons to do so either.

It's my duty as a fan to voice my displeasure where I see fit. Im not ready to boot Flacco from the team but im so sick and tired of every "fan" defending this man to the death and thinking he's Raven Jesus or something. He's proving himself more and more that he's still merely at BEST an average QB.

I'll be totally fair and say he's the best Quarterback that's played for this team. I just want everyone to walk off that Wacko for Flacco craze and start seeing things for how they really are. He's as much of a liability as he is a contributor. He'll come in next week and blow Cleveland away and play like he did in New England Wild Card game the following. Reminds me of Cutler.

I cant see Cutler winning a Super Bowl for his team. And I feel that same way about Flacco. He may play well enough to coast us there, mainly because we have a defense that can literally shutout teams but when that time comes where it's in Flacco's hands to win us that big game I get flashbacks of that Divisional Game at home against Indy.

Im gonna get negged like hell for this, but thats what I think about this situation. I dont have a solution because I dont think Bulger is quite what we need either to take us far. I'd only really put him in to scare the **** out of Joe, which right about now im not going to fight.

This IS coming from a Ravens fan, and I can be a fan however I choose. It's called having an opinion. If you wanna beat your chest like a brainless Steeler fan and call me a fair weather fan thats cool. If im wrong about all of this, I'll be glad to admit it when Joe takes the ball in hand and wins us the Conference Championships. And I REALLY wanna see some reactions in here if Flacco comes short and we miss the playoffs.....there's always next year for him to get better, right?
[/quote]
While I think you are jumping the gun, you make some valid points, well, not points, but some valid worries. I won't give you any negs for the way you voiced your opinion, in fact I think you did so by explaining it well.
I do think you are looking for more than can be delivered, at least in week 2, or even 3 against the Browns.
That game won't be an all out blow out just by us saying so. It needs to be played out on the field.
You voiced your opinion of wanting the Ravens to win, but still admitted you aren't sure of Flacco.
We are not the 2000 Ravens, our defense is actually close to being on par, but we also had Dilfer as the QB.
Would you rather have Dilfer or Flacco?

[Year of the Raven]

[quote name='Moisty' timestamp='1285055672' post='484732']
I really do want to come back and read some of these threads if we're scrambling to salvage this season five or six games before it's over. You cant give this boy Flacco too many more excuses. Rookie year and Sophomore Year are over. He needs to step up and be a big boy. QB's that are considered "elite" dont need half a season to get momentum and finally contribute enough to win games.

I've stuck up for him for both of those years but after all of this improvement on both sides of the ball, for him to go out and play that poorly is getting depressing. Everyone is so worried about his feelings...he makes more in a year than more will ever see in a lifetime to be our leader. Im still not seeing one after twiddling my thumbs after all this time.

Flacco is teamed up with some of the best Wideouts and an amazing run game. We have some O-Line issues, but please do not blame that solely on his poor performance. Do I need to bring in Roethlisberger's name into this? That man has the ability to put the game into his hands and come out with a win. He didn't need multiple "training" seasons to do so either.

It's my duty as a fan to voice my displeasure where I see fit. Im not ready to boot Flacco from the team but im so sick and tired of every "fan" defending this man to the death and thinking he's Raven Jesus or something. He's proving himself more and more that he's still merely at BEST an average QB.

I'll be totally fair and say he's the best Quarterback that's played for this team. I just want everyone to walk off that Wacko for Flacco craze and start seeing things for how they really are. He's as much of a liability as he is a contributor. He'll come in next week and blow Cleveland away and play like he did in New England Wild Card game the following. Reminds me of Cutler.

I cant see Cutler winning a Super Bowl for his team. And I feel that same way about Flacco. He may play well enough to coast us there, mainly because we have a defense that can literally shutout teams but when that time comes where it's in Flacco's hands to win us that big game I get flashbacks of that Divisional Game at home against Indy.

Im gonna get negged like hell for this, but thats what I think about this situation. I dont have a solution because I dont think Bulger is quite what we need either to take us far. I'd only really put him in to scare the **** out of Joe, which right about now im not going to fight.

This IS coming from a Ravens fan, and I can be a fan however I choose. It's called having an opinion. If you wanna beat your chest like a brainless Steeler fan and call me a fair weather fan thats cool. If im wrong about all of this, I'll be glad to admit it when Joe takes the ball in hand and wins us the Conference Championships. And I REALLY wanna see some reactions in here if Flacco comes short and we miss the playoffs.....there's always next year for him to get better, right?
[/quote]



Yea yea yea, i respect the opinion and all, i guess....what do you want from a qb that has been in the league for 2 fricken years, you should wait to post this when we miss the playoffs, which we won't so I guess you wouldn't get a chance....this is the year he has to prove himself, and after 2 games you are in panic mode....if you didn't see something good in that first game, then by all means look at the tape or something and look at the third down conversions,,,yea thats how he lead the offense,,,Flacco was the only offense for the Ravens monday night,,,Sunday was a bust, but every good quarterback has that,and as soon as he figures out the timing with his receivers and how to attack the zone, we will be seeing what was expected from him, in slow strides!!!

[Louisville Raven]

Steve Young made a comment about Alex Smith on Monday night that could also be directed toward Joe Flacco. Like Alex, Joe doesnt have that fire in him to lead this offense. He doesnt seem to have that confident attitude that you see from the best QB's in the the league i.e... Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, etc...
Joe needs to [b]TAKE CONTROL [/b]of this offense and be a leader!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Louisville Raven' timestamp='1285131820' post='485607']
Steve Young made a comment about Alex Smith on Monday night that could also be directed toward Joe Flacco. Like Alex, Joe doesnt have that fire in him to lead this offense. He doesnt seem to have that confident attitude that you see from the best QB's in the the league i.e... Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, etc...
Joe needs to [b]TAKE CONTROL [/b]of this offense and be a leader!
[/quote]

Were any of those guys leaders that displayed supreme confidence in their third year?

Honestly, fire isn't something I think we'll see very much from Joe. There'll be sporadic outbursts of emotion like when he threw the late INT against the Colts last year or his celebrations after throwing a TD against the Giants in pre-season but he just isn't a demonstrative guy for the most part. As long as he continues to learn and grow and plays well on the field, I'm fine if he doesn't exude the attitude of competitor.

Guys like Joe Montana, Steve McNair and to a lesser extent Eli Manning have been successful without being fiery guys. There's no reason Joe can't.

[berad]

[quote name='Louisville Raven' timestamp='1285131820' post='485607']
Steve Young made a comment about Alex Smith on Monday night that could also be directed toward Joe Flacco. Like Alex, Joe doesnt have that fire in him to lead this offense. He doesnt seem to have that confident attitude that you see from the best QB's in the the league i.e... Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, etc...
Joe needs to [b]TAKE CONTROL [/b]of this offense and be a leader!
[/quote]

Phillip Rivers?

He needs to spend less time yelling at opposing fans and more on inspiring his team to be put up with those names.

You can be quiet and lead an offense. Steve McNair, Joe Montana and Kurt Warner among others were always very reserved and quiet. Joe Flacco shows just as much passion as those guys, check after any TD he throws.

[berad]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1285132235' post='485611']
Were any of those guys leaders that displayed supreme confidence in their third year?

Honestly, fire isn't something I think we'll see very much from Joe. There'll be sporadic outbursts of emotion like when he threw the late INT against the Colts last year or his celebrations after throwing a TD against the Giants in pre-season but he just isn't a demonstrative guy for the most part. As long as he continues to learn and grow and plays well on the field, I'm fine if he doesn't exude the attitude of competitor.

[b]Guys like Joe Montana, Steve McNair and to a lesser extent Eli Manning have been successful without being fiery guys. There's no reason Joe can't.[/b]
[/quote]

I could sue you for plagiarism!

Hahaha wow that was scary..

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1285132779' post='485615']
I could sue you for plagiarism!

Hahaha wow that was scary..
[/quote]

LOL!

[Alexir]

I don't really buy into the fire or emotion or leadership of Joe Flacco. His problem goes back to fundamentals. He stares down receivers and he hesitates. You cannot hold onto the ball for more than two seconds in this league or you will get rocked.

Also, he doesn't look at the right side of the field. He will just watch his receivers on the left.

I dunno if he is having problems doing a drop back from center or what but since we aren't going to utilize our THREE PRO BOWL RUNNING BACKS, we might as well let him take more snaps from the shot gun.

Excuses are what I'm sick of hearing!

"The offensive line played like garbage!"
Ok, tell that to Aaron Rodgers. Better yet tell that to Drew Brees.

We gave him the weapons he needed now he needs to take his game to the next level. But he needs to utilize the running game! He needs to have better vision of the field, of coverages, of down markers.

It's only been two games, but I feel like he is regressing in his 3rd year. Pound the ball with the backs and let the plays open up. Stop forcing it, Cam. Joe obviously is having some trouble with this.

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1285133773' post='485625']
I don't really buy into the fire or emotion or leadership of Joe Flacco. His problem goes back to fundamentals. He stares down receivers and he hesitates. You cannot hold onto the ball for more than two seconds in this league or you will get rocked.

Also, he doesn't look at the right side of the field. He will just watch his receivers on the left.

I dunno if he is having problems doing a drop back from center or what but since we aren't going to utilize our THREE PRO BOWL RUNNING BACKS, we might as well let him take more snaps from the shot gun.

Excuses are what I'm sick of hearing!

"The offensive line played like garbage!"
Ok, tell that to Aaron Rodgers. Better yet tell that to Drew Brees.

We gave him the weapons he needed now he needs to take his game to the next level. But he needs to utilize the running game! He needs to have better vision of the field, of coverages, of down markers.

It's only been two games, but I feel like he is regressing in his 3rd year. Pound the ball with the backs and let the plays open up. Stop forcing it, Cam. Joe obviously is having some trouble with this.
[/quote]
No need to panic. Like you said, it really only is two games..well really one because he actually had an above average game against the Jets defense. IMO it's still a little too early to even say that he's regressing. He had a bad game last week let's just wait and see if he can learn from those mistakes and get better

[PuRock]

[quote name='Louisville Raven' timestamp='1285131820' post='485607']
Steve Young made a comment about Alex Smith on Monday night that could also be directed toward Joe Flacco. Like Alex, Joe doesnt have that fire in him to lead this offense. He doesnt seem to have that confident attitude that you see from the best QB's in the the league i.e... Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, etc...
[b]Joe needs to [b]TAKE CONTROL [/b]of this offense and be a leader![/b]
[/quote]

You know what's worse than a player that doesn't have a "take control" attitude? Trying to change somebody's character into something their not.

Dilfer gave great advise to Joe. "Be Yourself Joe, go out there and learn how to be better but don't force yourself into something your not" Paraphrasing from his interview on 105.7.

[mdbeachy]

The problem isn't with Joe, it is the new QB coach Jim Zorn, he worries so much about footwork and forgets all about natural ability. He has Joe worried about dropping back and keeping low in the pocket that it is causing problems. He did the same thing with Jason Cambell. You give Jim time and he will mess up a good QB.

[Perfekt]

Personally I never wanted Zorn here but its just because I dont feel hes a good coach.

[flaccopoe]

I hope that Flacco gains the confidence and insight he needs to wield his WRs and RBs. No more sitting on the ball! And try to be unpredictable: constantly passing to Boldin and Rice will allow our opponents (especially the Steelers)to devise a counterstrategy capable of defeating our offense. I expect Houshmendzadeh to contribute a lot to our endzone incursions.

[ellicottraven]

Guys I just got out of the hole I had dug myself to avoid thinking about how poorly our offense performed against the Bungles. Finally I mustered up the heart to log back in after the drubbing Flacco received at the hands of the the Bengals receivers! That was an intended error by the way!
The fact of the matter is there is what I call an X factor in most elite QBs in the league - that fire in the belly so to speak. Flacco is not a thinking QB but has all the tools to be exceptional. While it is easier to teach an unskilled leader to lead as QB, it is not possible with the former. Sadly Flacco does not seem to have that IT factor like say a Philip Rivers or a Payton Manning does. The only other QB with limited X factor but who has a SB ring is Eli Manning but he does not do more than asked and manages the game well.
So here is my thought - when is the right time to believe Flacco might not have it to take us all the way? Why was Bulger brought in unless there was a suspension of Flacco's inability to lead us all the way? Come on guys somebody please convince me I am wrong and Flacco will blossom into a great one! Please help me stay out of my hole!