MERGED: Cam's Play-Calling, Offensive Balance Needed

[Thepurplehaze]

Normally I don't have much beef with cam, but Sunday's play-calling made my stomach churn. As it's been said before, Joe was set up for failure, granted that failure was a bit more than we expected. RUN the flippin ball Cam!

[ravens world]

he is off with the calling but i think he calls to much runs at the times and to much passes at times like when i think they should run they pass when i think they should pass they run he does not switch it up and make things unpredictable he's calling is way to predictable cause he calls a bunch of runs and once and a bunch of passes at once. The coach might wanna talk to him about that get him to call plays a little different .

[Clutch Ravens]

At no point in his career in Baltimore has Cam displayed an ability to effectively call a game. Cam effectively ties lead weights to every offensive player's feet and drags them down with his play-calling.

Honestly, at this point in time, I'd rather have Flacco with a QB wristband full of plays making the calls over Cameron. Cameron's been given too long because he was a "good" offensive co-ordinator at some point in time - now, he's amongst the worst 5 offensive co-ordinators in the NFL. He doesn't know when to pass or when to run and he makes the same calls time and time again - example, the Jets game where he ran it up the middle on just about every 1st down, no matter how ineffective it was. He doesn't read a Defense and call plays that counter what they're doing.

It may sound harsh, but I've grown tired of Cam's incompetent and ineffective play calls and think that he is a prime reason that our offense continues to struggle.

[poedacrow]

[b]"At no point in his career in Baltimore has Cam displayed an ability to effectively call a game. Cam effectively ties lead weights to every offensive player's feet and drags them down with his play-calling."[/b]

Even if that were true at one point does it become a player's responsibility to execute a play? How many interceptions did Cam throw in the past two games? Last year?

[poedacrow]

[quote name='Thepurplehaze' timestamp='1285081762' post='484901']
Normally I don't have much beef with cam, but Sunday's play-calling made my stomach churn. As it's been said before, Joe was set up for failure, granted that failure was a bit more than we expected. RUN the flippin ball Cam!
[/quote]

Why on earth would an OC set his own QB up for failure?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='poedacrow' timestamp='1285085335' post='484951']
[b]"At no point in his career in Baltimore has Cam displayed an ability to effectively call a game. Cam effectively ties lead weights to every offensive player's feet and drags them down with his play-calling."[/b]

Even if that were true at one point does it become a player's responsibility to execute a play? How many interceptions did Cam throw in the past two games? Last year?
[/quote]

No, Cam didn't throw the interceptions but when it appeared the Ravens were wearing down Cincy through the run, he continued to call pass plays.

[WinnipegRaven]

Cam seems to try and show case our flashy pass game. He is getting to far away from our recipe for success - run the ball, control the clock, wear down opposing D's.

[flynismo]

I'll be honest, I'm really not very happy with our playcalling for a while now. And not just when we lose, when we win too. Cam DOES show brilliance at times, but for the most part, I think he can be doing a better job. That said, if our players would freaking EXECUTE THEIR PLAYS, last week we would have put up almost 300 pass yards and 24 points on the Jets, and the outcome of this weeks game may have been very different.

[berad]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1285083151' post='484908']
At no point in his career in Baltimore has Cam displayed an ability to effectively call a game. Cam effectively ties lead weights to every offensive player's feet and drags them down with his play-calling.
[/quote]

That's ridiculous. If that was even [i]remotely[/i] true, Cam Cameron wouldn't be here anymore. Simple as that.

[poedacrow]

Guys,(and gals) we as fans have the advantage of retrospection. Its easy to point out the shortcomings after the game has been played.

To date the Ravens have 58 rushes for 158 yards against the Jets and Bengals...averages out to a paltry 2.7 ypc. These are two very good defenses against the run. (The Jets, incidentally only allowed the Pats 41 yards on 15 carries)

Obviously, "run, run, run" wasn't gettin' it done. That marginalizes the quality of the defenses we've faced. In [b]retrospect[/b], it seems like utilizing the new passing game we've all been slobbering over for the last few months seemed like a good idea.

I can't be critical of Cam's play calling because, if I had a box full of game tapes and the offensive playbook I don't think I could call the game any better than he did.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='poedacrow' timestamp='1285097385' post='485156']
Guys,(and gals) we as fans have the advantage of retrospection. Its easy to point out the shortcomings after the game has been played.

T[b]o date the Ravens have 58 rushes for 158 yards against the Jets and Bengals...averages out to a paltry 2.7 ypc.[/b] These are two very good defenses against the run. (The Jets, incidentally only allowed the Pats 41 yards on 15 carries)

[b]Obviously, "run, run, run" wasn't gettin' it done.[/b] That marginalizes the quality of the defenses we've faced. In [b]retrospect[/b], it seems like utilizing the new passing game we've all been slobbering over for the last few months seemed like a good idea.

I can't be critical of Cam's play calling because, if I had a box full of game tapes and the offensive playbook I don't think I could call the game any better than he did.
[/quote]

It's easy to factor in the Jets game and say the running game hasn't been effective. But anyone who watched the Cincy game knows Rice was starting to wear them down and the o-line was mauling but Cam didn't call enough run plays.

I agree it's easy to criticize play-calling after the a team loses but when something is working and the OC decides to go away from, there's no excuse for that.

[poedacrow]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1285098986' post='485184']
It's easy to factor in the Jets game and say the running game hasn't been effective. But anyone who watched the Cincy game knows Rice was starting to wear them down and the o-line was mauling but Cam didn't call enough run plays.

I agree it's easy to criticize play-calling after the a team loses but when something is working and the OC decides to go away from, there's no excuse for that.
[/quote]

There is an article here on BR.com entitled, "Ravens Turnover Ratio the Worst in the NFL." No amount of offensive genius or sloth can overcome that. I've said it once and I'll say it again...we are [b]lucky[/b] to be 1-1

[XxSizzleXx]

It was evident, at the start of the game we weren't getting much of a push and the LB's were filling up all the gaps. In the second half you could see that the Oline were moving people and they were lanes that Rice could go through. We had a real chance to win that game if we would of stuck on the ground, mix it up a bit maybe, like where were the screens on Sunday?
This next game our offense needs to get into a rhythm and needs to put Cleveland into the ground to get some flow and chemistry going.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='poedacrow' timestamp='1285099759' post='485196']
There is an article here on BR.com entitled, "Ravens Turnover Ratio the Worst in the NFL." No amount of offensive genius or sloth can overcome that. I've said it once and I'll say it again...we are [b]lucky[/b] to be 1-1
[/quote]

We weren't talking about the turnover rate but I disagree the team is lucky to be 1-1. The Jets couldn't move the ball and the Ravens offense did just enough to win the game.

[poedacrow]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1285100602' post='485211']
We weren't talking about the turnover rate but I disagree the team is lucky to be 1-1. The Jets couldn't move the ball and the Ravens offense did just enough to win the game.
[/quote]

I mentioned the turnover rate because regardless of what play Cam or anyone calls, [b]turning the ball over that many times will lose you the football game.[/b] Thats why we lost the game...not Cam's play calling. We are lucky we've still got a stout defense; without them we could easily be 0-2.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='poedacrow' timestamp='1285097385' post='485156']<br />Guys,(and gals) we as fans have the advantage of retrospection.  Its easy to point out the shortcomings after the game has been played.<br /><br />To date the  Ravens have 58 rushes for 158 yards against the Jets and Bengals...averages out to a paltry 2.7 ypc.  These are two very good defenses against the run. (The Jets, incidentally only  allowed the Pats 41 yards on 15 carries)<br /><br />Obviously, &quot;run, run, run&quot; wasn't gettin' it done. That marginalizes the quality of the defenses we've faced. In <b>retrospect</b>, it seems like utilizing the new passing game we've all been slobbering over for the last few months seemed like a good idea.<br /><br />I can't be critical of Cam's play calling because, if I had a box full of game tapes and the offensive playbook I don't think I could call the game any better than he  did.<br />[/quote]

thats just it...i think generally he is calling for runs and passes at the right times, for the most part. I just think that the plays itself need to be improved..he needs to scrap his current playbook and borrow some of dennis green's old plays.,,,,,,,,,,

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='poedacrow' timestamp='1285101279' post='485225']
I mentioned the turnover rate because regardless of what play Cam or anyone calls, [b]turning the ball over that many times will lose you the football game.[/b] Thats why we lost the game...not Cam's play calling. We are lucky we've still got a stout defense; without them we could easily be 0-2.
[/quote]

No one can argue turning the ball over hurts but Cam has to take some blame in my opinion. During the drives Joe threw interceptions, there wasn't a single rush. Not one!

[poedacrow]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1285101868' post='485234']
,

thats just it...[b]i think generally he is calling for runs and passes at the right times,[/b] for the most part. I just think that the plays itself need to be improved..he needs to scrap his current playbook and borrow some of dennis green's old plays.,,,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

exactly...and whatever plays get called, the turnovers need to come way down in order to stay competitive.

[berad]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1285102177' post='485240']
No one can argue turning the ball over hurts but Cam has to take some blame in my opinion. During the drives Joe threw interceptions, there wasn't a single rush. Not one!
[/quote]

Dang, that's a wild fact! Did not know that, that's pretty significant.

[ravenanchors]

Cam's play calling and decision making is abysmal.
Why would you put an untested offense and game plan on the field against 2 very good defenses.
Flacco hasn't even played a full game with the receivers and the O-line has injuries.

All of last year I would watch the games and I was able to call the plays before the ball was hiked. I am sure that the defenses are doing the same thing. There is no originality, personality or strategy to win. I chalked this up to Flacco being a rookie but this year Cam's play calling and game plan are terrible. Cam seems to be randomly calling plays without a strategy. Some might think this is harsh but it is true.

Cam is supposed to be the leader of our offense but he is putting the offense in unwinable situations on the field.
Cam needs to take blame as much as Flacco.

This does not mean that you abandon the passing game.
For those who say go back to the run game, the fact is you have to have a balanced offense.
The run sets up the pass and the pass sets up the run. They go hand in hand.

For those who say it is only one loss, the Ravens must win against teams like Bengals and Jets to make it to the playoffs.

For those who say the O-line needs to give Flacco more time, A quarter back can expect no more than 3 seconds to throw the ball. Flacco held the ball much longer than that because he could not find open receivers which is not the quarterbacks fault. This is the coaches fault for not studying and understanding the opponent. Housh told the coaches that the Bengals corners were the best pair in the league. It appears that Cam did not listen.

The latest article by Ryan Mink makes it sound like Cam is blaming Joe for the loss. I think Harbaugh needs to review Cams game plan a little closer next time.

[poedacrow]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1285102177' post='485240']
No one can argue turning the ball over hurts but Cam has to take some blame in my opinion.[b] During the drives Joe threw interceptions, there wasn't a single rush. Not one![/b]
[/quote]

Agreed. Cam should take some blame. But consider this. Suppose, during those drives, Joe threw [b]touchdowns? [/b] Is that still an instance of poor play calling or something else?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='poedacrow' timestamp='1285104116' post='485267']
Agreed. Cam should take some blame. But consider this. Suppose, during those drives, Joe threw [b]touchdowns? [/b] Is that still an instance of poor play calling or something else?
[/quote]

Good question. I'll admit as fans, we often consider anything that doesn't work out to be the wrong move. The offense didn't execute for the most part save one drive against the Bengals but again, Cam should have evaluated the situation better and made adjustments to the gameplan and not be emboldened by one drive.

[Clutch Ravens]

I may come accross as harsh but, having just qualified as an offensive co-ordinator, his inability to adjust and call effective plays makes me irrate.

I have nothing against him personally or anything like that but his play calling HAS to improve. I hope he proves me wrong and makes me eat crow but, so far, all he's done is irritate me with completely inept play calling.

[berad]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1285113046' post='485381']
I may come accross as harsh but, having just qualified as an offensive co-ordinator, his inability to adjust and call effective plays makes me irrate.

I have nothing against him personally or anything like that but his play calling HAS to improve. I hope he proves me wrong and makes me eat crow but, so far, all he's done is irritate me with completely inept play calling.
[/quote]

Who are you coordinating for?

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1285113229' post='485382']
Who are you coordinating for?
[/quote]

I'll be co-ordinating for my local team, the Aberdeen Oilcats.

It's not much but it's all I can do at the moment, being that I'm still very young and inexperienced.

[berad]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1285113425' post='485387']
I'll be co-ordinating for my local team, the Aberdeen Oilcats.

It's not much but it's all I can do at the moment, being that I'm still very young and inexperienced.
[/quote]

True that, but gotta start somewhere, and congratulations! That's awesome!

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1285113998' post='485393']
True that, but gotta start somewhere, and congratulations! That's awesome!
[/quote]

Thanks, now all I have to do is draw up a play-book that'll turn one of the lowest scoring flag teams in Scotland to one of the highest scoring kitted teams in Scotland.

Already making that transition and they entrust offensive co-ordination to an 18 year old. They must be crazy.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Flacco made a straight up poor decision on third down on the interception to Pacman, trying to fit it into Boldin even when Pac was playing in front of Boldin stride for stride. What about his next pick where there were no receivers in the area on third and long, but he throws right into coverage? Do you really blame Cam for those on the field decisions?

Cam messed up by putting too much pressure on his struggling QB and not running enough even when it was the only thing that worked.

The O line actually wasn't that bad in this game. I've noticed already a lot of Joe standing in the pocket until the last possible second before releasing the ball. It seems some of his throws under that type of pressure were more accurate than the ones where he would just loft it up amd miss. However, the line still needs to pick it up and hopefully get Gaither back. Flacco, even if not taking sacks, still takes his share of hits.

There's a lot to fix against the Browns this week. Mostly just get the confidence back and the bad taste outta the mouth. If we do some of these things we did in the Bengals game up in Pittsburgh....really bad things are gonna happen.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1285115535' post='485414']
[b]Flacco made a straight up poor decision on third down on the interception to Pacman, trying to fit it into Boldin even when Pac was playing in front of Boldin stride for stride.[/b] What about his next pick where there were no receivers in the area on third and long, but he throws right into coverage? Do you really blame Cam for those on the field decisions?

Cam messed up by putting too much pressure on his struggling QB and not running enough even when it was the only thing that worked.

The O line actually wasn't that bad in this game. I've noticed already a lot of Joe standing in the pocket until the last possible second before releasing the ball. It seems some of his throws under that type of pressure were more accurate than the ones where he would just loft it up amd miss. However, the line still needs to pick it up and hopefully get Gaither back. Flacco, even if not taking sacks, still takes his share of hits.

There's a lot to fix against the Browns this week. Mostly just get the confidence back and the bad taste outta the mouth. If we do some of these things we did in the Bengals game up in Pittsburgh....really bad things are gonna happen.
[/quote]

Watching that play from different angles, Q actually had inside position Pacman but Jones pulled him behind to jump in front and get the interception.

[Ravensfanspls]

In my opinion he needs to go. I'm not saying the guy is not a good coach and he didn't help Flacco get to where he is now. The guy lead the dolphins to a 1-15 record couple yrs back and the reason that chargers team was so good and scored so many points was due to LT Antonio Gates Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers etc.

His offensive game plans just don't make sense we have Ray rice, Willis Mcgahee Todd Heap Boldin Mason etc with a great O line. Its almost like he doesn't study film he continues to call the same plays all the time with no screens slants etc he doesn't know how to set up plays to help someone make a play.

He consistently calls up the middle run curl route, go route over and over. We need to look at what other teams are doing these days and are working and we keep sticking to this and its not working. Maybe I'm sounding stupid because I'm frustrated with the offense but i don't think its Flacco and we have so much talent to do great things.