MERGED: Cam's Play-Calling, Offensive Balance Needed

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1284932299' post='482055']
Like Boldin should be running 75% of his routes, just overtop the LBs and in front of the safeties. This is why we got him, to pull the LBs back from the LOS. I understand Mason doesnt run a whole lot across the field but, Boldin and TJ should be dominating the middle of the field.
[/quote]

Agreed. While I'm still skeptical of him in games, I think Cam will make some adjustments for next week.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1284932161' post='482048']
They were getting beat because they aren't as good. Not that that's an excuse for the miscues by Joe but Hall, Joseph and Jones are a better trio than Revis, Cromartie and Wilson.
[/quote]
Yeah but those guys kept limping off the field. I'm pretty sure Jones got knocked out of the game entirely and one of the other guys was in and out of the lineup.

[cursona pirate]

Run the ball more

[beasy2487]

I'm putting this game on Cam.

No, Flacco is not performing at the level we hoped he would this season. However, it is the Offensive Coordinator's job to call plays suited for the team he HAS, not for the team he WANTS. Cam has flat out abandoned the concept of baby steps and is simply asking Joe to do too much. Should Joe be able to do what Cam is asking him to do? Probably, but he isn't. Is that Joe's fault? Probably. However, after that first half, Cam has to recognize that he doesn't have the quarterback he wants yet and CHANGE the way he's calling plays.

The underutilization of Ray Rice is starting to get on my nerves. During the preseason I was one of those saying that Rice not seeing any carries was Cam just trying to see what he's got, but I'm starting to think I was wrong--Cam just doesn't like to run the ball.

Our defense is playing entirely too well for us to be fielding this kind of offense. I'm very disappointed with this game and, retrospectively, last week's game as well. I thought our poor offense was just due to a great defense--and I don't disagree that the Bengals are good--but we SAW New England absolutely dominate them last week and we couldn't get more than 10 points? Pathetic. PATHETIC.

How is Cam going to regress right when Mattison is hitting his stride? @)*&_^@%@

I'm blown, if you didn't notice.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1284932487' post='482071']
Yeah but those guys kept limping off the field. I'm pretty sure Jones got knocked out of the game entirely and one of the other guys was in and out of the lineup.
[/quote]

True. Fact is, it was a terrible game for Joe, the line struggled at times and the play-calling was head-scratching at times. Hopefully, everyone improves for next week.

[CapoRocky]

The Steelers won again with their 3rd string QB due to their defense. The Ravens lost due to mental errors by their QB. Oftentimes, it's better to have bad games at the beginning of the season, rather than right before the playoffs begin. There is plenty of time for the Ravens to get chemistry before the playoffs start. I'm not saying that Flacco shouldn't start, but we need to give Bulger a chance to earn his money on days that Flacco has a bad game. Today was the first time that I didn't think that we could win with him as our QB. BTW, I don't recall Cameron throwing any interceptions.

[JohnJohnson]

Every QB has bad games. This was probably Flacco's worst, no one is arguing that. But some of the blame falls on Cam for repeatedly putting the ball back into his hands, instead of going to Rice who was doing well. We had a one point lead twice, and we blew field position because Flacco threw interceptions. Cam should have known after the first half that we needed to play conservatively, our defense shut them down. The only reason they had 15 points is we kept giving them the ball in great position! If we had locked down, shortened the game and RUN THE BALL, we could have kept them pinned. Our defense hasn't given up a TD yet.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1284932922' post='482099']
The Steelers won again with their 3rd string QB due to their defense. The Ravens lost due to mental errors by their QB. Oftentimes, it's better to have bad games at the beginning of the season, rather than right before the playoffs begin. There is plenty of time for the Ravens to get chemistry before the playoffs start. I'm not saying that Flacco shouldn't start, but we need to give Bulger a chance to earn his money on days that Flacco has a bad game. Today was the first time that I didn't think that we could win with him as our QB. BTW, I don't recall Cameron throwing any interceptions.
[/quote]

Um. If Bulger started, those picks and throwaways would've been sacks. At some point we need to give Bulger a chance to ear his paycheck? We pay him to be the back up QB... right? Is he not doing that?

I don't even know where to being responding to this post...

[VA_Fan]

As i said in the Game Thread. We need to put the training wheels back on Flacco and then maybe Cam can call a balanced game. He goes run happy one week then pass happy the next. It always seems like he runs them the opposite then what we need to do. SOmething has got to change.

[DHaran]

Cam Cameron lost this game, not Joe Flacco. After the first 2 interceptions we should have ridden Ray Rice to the victory party. But no, our overconfident and incompetent play caller is calling 30 yard endzone routes on 3rd and 5.

Ray Rice had 16 carries. 16! Early in the game he had 4 carries for 17 yards, can someone please send Cam Cameron a note that lets him know 4 yards a carry is better than interceptions and sacks? He ended with 16 for 87, a 5.44 average, and he almost took one to the house. NO excuse for any less than 25 carries when he is running that well. The run was abandoned for no valid reason.

Harbaugh needs to reign in this clown before he loses us more games. Quarterbacks have bad games, it is the coaches jobs to adjust, and they failed on all levels in that regard.

[I AM LEGEND]

Nah...this was on Flacco...

[theFRANCHISE]

Everyone on the offense shares equal blame. If Flacco made better decisions, he wouldn't have thrown some of his picks. If the offensive line did a better job in pass protection, Flacco wouldn't have been harassed for half the game and rushed into some of those same picks. If the wide receivers had gotten better separation and Houshmandzadeh had learned his routes, Flacco wouldn't have had to hold onto the ball for so long. If the running game, in the limited carries they got, had gotten off the ground sooner, the passing attack would've opened up. If Cam Cameron had done a better job balancing his play-calling, the offense wouldn't have been so reliant on Flacco on a day when everyone on offense was out-of-sync.

Everyone shares the blame. This was a total loss on the part of the offense. It'd be irresponsible to pin the blame all on any single individual or positional group.

[bmorefan444]

Flacco's fault. 3 of those 4 INTs were the stupidest passes I've ever seen. Cam didn't throw them.

[DHaran]

Cam kept on calling those bonehead pass plays even though his QB was struggling horrendously. Meanwhile Ray Rice was having a great game and was completely abandoned in full blown (and unnecessary) panic mode. I never said Flacco didn't make bad throws on those ints, but as the coach you need to see what is happening on the field and adjust, Cameron failed miserably, and Harbaugh didn't do a thing about it.

There is 100% no reason to run an endzone route on 3rd and 5 when you have a QB who can't hit the broad side of a barn all day. Period.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='bennyb357' timestamp='1284987930' post='483436']
Idk, most of the time I can agree with you, but I still think Flacco lost us this game. His mechanics looked worse than ever. Wide open receivers but no check downs. More than enough time from the OL. But to stay on topic, Cam should've used our running game more. There were a few downs where I just couldn't understand why we weren't running the ball. We're obviously straying from a "run first" team.
[/quote]
I saw several plays where both offensive tackles (yes, Oher included) were beaten off the edge badly. There was one play in particular on third down where both Bengals defensive ends put a simultaneous spin move on their respective blockers, almost as if it was synchronized swimming. That resulted in the pocket collapsing and a horrible incompletion.

Yes, Flacco was responsible for his mistakes. And yes, he deserves blame. But, to give him more fault than his teammates is almost to absolve them of blame. They're a supporting cast for a reason, and most of them didn't provide the support he needed. Speaking to the receivers, there were times where it really seemed like Houshmandzadeh didn't know his routes and thought he was still playing for the Bengals. In fact, if Housh doesn't step it up by midseason, I'd question his motivation and work ethic, as he's guaranteed his $7 million salary owed by the Seahawks regardless of whether he even plays this season.

[bmorefan444]

Cam and the rest of the team need to let the passing game develop instead of forcing it! We still have one of the best running games. Its hard to pass when you haven't developed the run. Who wants to see Ray Rice break for a 40 yard run more often?!

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='DHaran' timestamp='1284988422' post='483452']
Cam kept on calling those bonehead pass plays even though his QB was struggling horrendously. Meanwhile Ray Rice was having a great game and was completely abandoned in full blown (and unnecessary) panic mode.
[/quote]
I'd argue that Cam panicked when Rice didn't pick up any decent gains in most of the first half and McGahee kept getting stuffed at the line. That would probably explain why he abandoned the run. His problem, however, was not trusting the ground attack in the second half when the backs [i]did[/i] start gaining steam. That may speak to a distrust of the offensive line for their atrocious performance most of the game.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1284988650' post='483461']
I'd argue that Cam panicked when Rice didn't pick up any decent gains in most of the first half and McGahee kept getting stuffed at the line. That would probably explain why he abandoned the run. His problem, however, was not trusting the ground attack in the second half when the backs [i]did[/i] start gaining steam. That may speak to a distrust of the offensive line for their atrocious performance most of the game.
[/quote]

Agreed. However, you'd think an OC who has been around football as long as Cam would know, against a good D like the Bengals', you aren't going to consistently pick up big gains but if you stick with it, they'll eventually wear down.

[CorvusCorax]

Out of curiosity since I didn't watch the game, did they run hurry up offense like they did in the preseason?

[PuRock]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' timestamp='1285000984' post='483749']
Out of curiosity since I didn't watch the game, did they run hurry up offense like they did in the preseason?
[/quote]

I don't remember seeing any hurry-up offense.

[omar586]

i say it was cam, he looks like he doesn't have that in game adjustment thing, b/c when u see u qb struggle that bad and u still down or leading by 1 or 2 points use your DARN RB's, rice looked pretty darn good, cam is getting away from the runing game to much, just play balanced football, even if we win vs brownies next week that won't satisfy any raven fan, we need to beat Squeelers to measure how good the ravens are really is, the squeelers look pretty darn good w/o a freekn qb!! i know for sure(i hope ) the ravens will abuse the brownies, put the ravens gonna have to beat elite teams (colts, squeelers, pats again)to prove how good they're really are

[omar586]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1285001490' post='483758']
I don't remember seeing any hurry-up offense.
[/quote]
it was more like hurry-up to the locker room after that horrendous-play-calling+4ints+screwed-by-refs-game

[omar586]

heck, for a sec on sunday i really thought that bungles really drugged flacco or put something in his gatorade.

[XxSizzleXx]

I'm really curious as to what the reasons why Flacco threw into HEAVY HEAVY coverage on 3 of his 4 turnovers.

Flacco needs to do a better job reading the defense and IMO he should really work on his mobility, he could of probably saved 3 of those turnovers if he would of scrambled and pick up a yard or so then saucing up a cupcake for a bunch of Bengals to fight over.

The play calling has also been very easy to determine what is coming up, we need Cam to mix it up and throw D-coordinators off balance or else we don't have a shot. You just can't go run run run, then pass pass pass. MIX ER UP!

[jdynamite]

Maybe Cam Cameron is hoping that flacco goes wild throwing for yds and touchdowns, so he can get another crack at a head coaching job. because this man called a much more balanced attack when he was in San Diego those yrs... this is 2 straight yrs we open the season throwing twice as much as we run to prove that Flacco and the offense has improved under Cameron.... I like the improvement in ppg (overall) not passing yardage or passing tds .. just run more to set up the passing game at least I never see play action passes and when we do its just to throw a Hail Mary pass... Why don't we run more drag routes, slants, quick comebacks, slot receiver runs center post... I mean there is a reason Welker and D.Jackson stay in the slot because its hard to cover slants and quick "hot routes" that can turn into much more with YAC

[wayne]

Been saying the same thing about Cam since 2 years ago, he has that Garret syndrome ....... they out coach their selves and try to be too creative instead of just keeping things simple.

[Jabara]

There a lot of good points in this thread, as opposed to people just straight up bashing someone.
I'm going out on a limb and suggesting Cam is still in preseason, and the only difference is that he's actually game planning to some degree, because he'd rather win than lose.
Having said that, I think he's still trying things out.
Last season we came out, guns blazing, throwing a lot and putting points on the board. I believe the first 3 game were like that, and then their was a transition into a different style of offense. I'm not sure if Cam is just seeing what he has, in order to perfect it mid season and make a playoff run at that point. Cam also gets quite aggressive, and I believe it's not only to get our new offense on point, but because he has the Ravens defense to back him up, and typically they do.
The flaw with what I'm saying is why would Cam gamble on a clear shot to go 2-0 and have a lead over the Bengals in our division, just to test some things out.
Honestly, I don't know what Cam is doing, and I hope his play calling is addressed by the coaches/FO in order to figure out what's going on. Perhaps they all agree.
I think Cam is trying to see if he can win a shootout, if we can win when our running attack is taken away.
And I really don't think it was taken away during the Bengals game.
Apparently Rice hurt his ankle. Not that we don't have two other backs, but I don't see the running game being an emphasis as of yet.
I think Cam is trying to get away from a one dimensional and predictable offense so we can ultimately win more games. He doesn't want Joe to just manage the game anymore, he wants our entire offense to win the game, to the point that he knows our defense will be able to stop the other team, and we can outright win all or most of the time.
It's what is happening with other teams such as the Colts, the Saints, and the Vikings.
It's pretty clear that seems to be the case. It's not like we made splash trades on defense to get a great player like we did on offense with Boldin, T.J and Stallworth.
There is so much going on at this point, and the fans are going crazy trying to figure out what we are doing. I'm not going to blame one player or one coach. It's a process.

I will say for as amazing as our defense is playing, we haven't been very successful getting turnovers, yet. And our penalties have shown a serious improvement.
We lost a great opportunity to put ourselves in great position in the division.
That is the biggest thing we should be discussing, we had the chance to be on top, even though the Steelers are 2-0, we would have had the chance to have a win against them and the Bengals at their house. Because I'm obviously banking on us beating the Steelers week 4.
They don't have an offense, and Ward plus the defense won't win every game for them.
Ok, this has gone off topic, and is way long winded, god forbid I have to go back and correct grammatical errors.
Go Ravens!

[poedacrow]

Seems to me a lot of the displeasure with "Cam's Play calling" discounts the caliber of the two defenses we played. I'm sure the DC of the Jets and the Bengals worked hard into the night to make sure there would be no "balance" in our offensive scheme...especially playing in their house. Heck that's what WE do.

6 interceptions in two games and Cam didn't throw not a one of 'em. Even read somewhere on here that Cam "set Joe up to fail"

How many of us were giddy like kids on Christmas day with the acquisition of Donte Stallworth and Anquan Boldin...and giddier still when TJ came aboard? How many were thinking, lets run the ball like we did when Jamal lewis was here?

[CorvusCorax]

I'd like to at least see a half on hurry up offense. I think with the o-line having substitutions in, we are witnesses to adjustments being made, which didn't work.

[12th man]

[quote name='DHaran' timestamp='1284986447' post='483419']
Cam Cameron lost this game, not Joe Flacco. After the first 2 interceptions we should have ridden Ray Rice to the victory party. But no, our overconfident and incompetent play caller is calling 30 yard endzone routes on 3rd and 5.

Ray Rice had 16 carries. 16! Early in the game he had 4 carries for 17 yards, can someone please send Cam Cameron a note that lets him know 4 yards a carry is better than interceptions and sacks? He ended with 16 for 87, a 5.44 average, and he almost took one to the house. NO excuse for any less than 25 carries when he is running that well. The run was abandoned for no valid reason.

Harbaugh needs to reign in this clown before he loses us more games. Quarterbacks have bad games, it is the coaches jobs to adjust, and they failed on all levels in that regard.
[/quote]
Agree, If i remember correctly this was an question early on in preseason about not being a run team, and i remember all the coaches saying things like we will be a great balanced team??? well what the h--l happened?? You are so right Rice and mcclain, and willis should have pound that ball in for a TD. Joe need to have a running game to make him feel good and get comfortable before wanting him to throw all night. Joe isn't ready to make this step forward just yet and if Cam doesn't balance this game plan better Joe will be lost this year and that will cause him to regress. Cam fix it now!!! Run rice and company when it works pound that ball, Then joe can air it out it's called football 101.Joe stop the interceptions man, check it down do something,tell Cam you need help it's ok we want to win.!!!