MERGED: Cam's Play-Calling, Offensive Balance Needed

[Ed_Reed20]

A while ago, I remember hearing Mike Preston say on the radio that Cam Cameron's doesn't how to "slow down" in that when the passing offense is clicking, he'll abandon the running game. Today was a perfect example of that.

Joe was obviously off all game. He made some fine throws on the one TD-producing drive but struggled in almost everything he did. On the next possession after the opening second half drive, Cam called three straight passing plays even when it was clear the Ravens' o-line were opening running lanes. There were also other scenarios where Cam chose to pass rather than run.

I'm confident the Ravens will able to move the ball against the Browns next week but in the future, against equally good or better competition than the Ravens faced today, does anyone feel Cam's tendency to stick with the pass at the first sign it's clicking could become a problem?

[bmore187]

Cam Cameron thought he was the defensive co-ordinator for the Bengals

[hawkprey]

I was kind of glad at what Cam was able to do against the Jets blitz but other than that... Sure, some people will blame Joe or the O-line but there was certainly no help from passing twice as much as running when running is your strength.

I said this before the season, my biggest worry for this team is Cam's play-calling. I don't like it at all.

[theFRANCHISE]

I think Cam Cameron is trying so desperately to rush Flacco along, when Flacco needs to build a rhythm before he gets going. Most QBs do. If you have a great RB like Ray Rice, why not be patient and use the run to set up the pass, even when they're stacking the box?

[MagicianCamille]

Cam's problem is he never takes a balanced approach. He either goes ultra-conservative with screen passes and runs, or tries to go shotgun formation every play. I don't think he's ever heard of a "balanced attack". We've got tremendous talent in both our running backs and our receivers. That does us no good when we don't know how to utilize any of them.

[tonyg6996]

I think this game showed us more than anything that we are still (no matter how many wr's we get) a run first team. Ray Rice was averaging 5 yards per carry this game, and we still didn't give it to him. Cam and John have to get the message and go back to what made the Ravens great in 2000 and 2008, running the ball and playing lights out defense. We already have one piece of the puzzle, it's up to you Cam.

[MKdave]

Rice should have been fed more, simply. The ground game wasn't doing it really, but we needed to go to screens and swing passes. Going downfield and to the recievers in general was not fruitful and we tried it too much too early.

[ravensfan160]

After Ray Rice really started to get together on our FG drive I thought when we got the ball back with 4 or 5 minutes in the 4th qtr we would try and run it. Nope. We go shotgun and pass it every time.

Does Cam like repeatedly smacking his head into a wall? Because thats what it looked like today with our passing game. You would think he'd get sore after while and stop.

[MagicianCamille]

[quote name='MKdave' timestamp='1284928361' post='481730']The ground game wasn't doing it really
[/quote]

Rice was averaging 5.7 yards per carry, with 87 total despite only seeing the ball 16 times. The ground game was fine. Cam Cameron just didn't go to it enough, even though the game was never more than a 6 point difference.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1284928415' post='481736']
[b]After Ray Rice really started to get together on our FG drive I though when we got the ball back with 4 or 5 minutes in the 4th qtr we would try and run it. Nope. We go shotgun and run it every time.[/b]

Does Cam like repeatedly smacking his head into a wall? Because thats what it looked like today with our passing game. You would think he'd get sore after while and stop.
[/quote]

I couldn't believe it. Again, numerous players(mostly on offense) played poorly today but Cam deserves a share of the blame for the loss.

[A Kruger]

I really dislike Cam's play calling as well, especially with the additions we made this year. We have the personnel to be aggressive, yet it seems that Cam wants to call things just like he did last year. I think Ray Rice's big run in the 4th quarter is a prime example. He breaks a big run - a perfect opportunity for a play action pass, maybe a cross across the middle to Boldin, but instead, he decides to send Rice back up the gut, and he gets stopped. At least try and send McGahee or McClain in that situation, not the smaller back. The AFC North teams know what we're going to do - if we run successfully on one play, we're going to on the next. If it fails, we're going to pass. I know Cameron has a really great reputation, but I think he really needs to slow down, like you said, or all our additions in the offseason are for naught. The Houshmandzadeh situation, or lack thereof, also really disappointed me. His first trip back to Cincy (I believe), and he doesn't even get a reception? Come on Cam - get it together. I want to support him, but he needs to give us all a reason to believe. Put some points up, help out the D, and we start winning games convincingly.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='A Kruger' timestamp='1284928788' post='481780']
I really dislike Cam's play calling as well, especially with the additions we made this year. We have the personnel to be aggressive, yet it seems that Cam wants to call things just like he did last year. I think Ray Rice's big run in the 4th quarter is a prime example. He breaks a big run - a perfect opportunity for a play action pass, maybe a cross across the middle to Boldin, but instead, he decides to send Rice back up the gut, and he gets stopped. At least try and send McGahee or McClain in that situation, not the smaller back. The AFC North teams know what we're going to do - if we run successfully on one play, we're going to on the next. If it fails, we're going to pass. I know Cameron has a really great reputation, but I think he really needs to slow down, like you said, or all our additions in the offseason are for naught. [b] The Houshmandzadeh situation, or lack thereof, also really disappointed me. His first trip back to Cincy (I believe), and he doesn't even get a reception?[/b] Come on Cam - get it together. I want to support him, but he needs to give us all a reason to believe. Put some points up, help out the D, and we start winning games convincingly.
[/quote]
Housh had two pretty well thrown deep balls that he got both hands on and couldn't bring in either one. That was disappointing.

[PuRock]

I've always thought that Cam over thinks every game plan. Today was no difference.

[A Kruger]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1284928914' post='481797']
Housh had two pretty well thrown deep balls that he got both hands on and couldn't bring in either one. That was disappointing.
[/quote]

Very true - but that was it. Both of those balls were tough grabs, though. I just can't believe he wouldn't try harder to get Housh the ball, ya know?

[JohnJohnson]

It's not just general balance, it's situational! We needed a conservative game plan today, especially when we saw that our defense was indeed "that" good. Despite our offensive performance, we could have won this game with a -4 turnover ratio. If it wasn't for the unbelievable "tripping" call and the even more unbelievable roughing the passer call (Suggs got there before Palmer even released the ball), we honestly could have held them off. Both came at crucial times. If it wasn't for those, I honestly think we could have won this game despite a HORRIBLE offensive performance and a -4 turnover ratio. That's how good our defense was. If we had come in with a conservative game plan, and set up the pass with the run, we could have dominated field position. Instead, Cam keeps calling passes. Everyone I was watching the game with saw that our game plan was off, why can't the coaches?

That 3rd and 17 against the Jets last week, and now this. Why are we doing stupid things? Our defense is AWESOME. We don't need to throw it around all the time, you don't always need the first down. Just keep field position. It's like we've lost the Raven mindset just because we have some new receivers (another reason to start off slow with the passing this season). The turnovers are KILLING us.

[MKdave]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' timestamp='1284928485' post='481744']
Rice was averaging 5.7 yards per carry, with 87 total despite only seeing the ball 16 times. The ground game was fine. Cam Cameron just didn't go to it enough, even though the game was never more than a 6 point difference.
[/quote]

I'm surprised the numbers where that good. But there were too many runs for 1, 0, or negative yards. But my post wasn't really supposed to be critical of the ground game, more the dedication to passing to covered receivers.

[tonyg6996]

It's time to go back to a run first team. This game showed that Flacco isn't at the level where he is ready to carry the team against a quality opponent like Peyton or Brady, so I think it's time to get the three headed monster back in commission. Rice was averaging 5 yards a carry and we only game him 16 carries. I mean how many times did McGahee run the ball? Once or twice? And I can only remember McClain getting it one time. We have 2 #1 RB's and one of the best FB's in the league, why not use them? Especially when Flacco is having a bad game.

Edit: Sorry for basically posting the same thing twice, didn't see the Merged topic yet.

[A Kruger]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1284929216' post='481838']
It's not just general balance, it's situational! We needed a conservative game plan today, especially when we saw that our defense was indeed "that" good. Despite our offensive performance, we could have won this game with a -4 turnover ratio. If it wasn't for the unbelievable "tripping" call and the even more unbelievable roughing the passer call (Suggs got there before Palmer even released the ball), we honestly could have held them off. Both came at crucial times. If it wasn't for those, I honestly think we could have won this game despite a HORRIBLE offensive performance and a -4 turnover ratio. That's how good our defense was. If we had come in with a conservative game plan, and set up the pass with the run, we could have dominated field position. Instead, Cam keeps calling passes. Everyone I was watching the game with saw that our game plan was off, why can't the coaches?

That 3rd and 17 against the Jets last week, and now this. Why are we doing stupid things? Our defense is AWESOME. We don't need to throw it around all the time, you don't always need the first down. Just keep field position. It's like we've lost the Raven mindset just because we have some new receivers (another reason to start off slow with the passing this season). The turnovers are KILLING us.
[/quote]

100% agree - gotta set up the run with the pass, but it works both ways too. I keep going back to Rice's big run in the 4th when Cam tried another run right after - why not go play action to one of our big physical receivers and let them make something happen in the open field? The set ups just aren't there.

[JO_75]

Cam needs a lesson in the Ravens way... RUN RUN RUN!

I understand we have the weapons but guess what... Joe still can't do nothing. Cam is rushing Joe too much, granted he has Boldin and the receivers but we will always be a run first team. I bet Cam reverts back to a run 1st approach against the Browns and we smash the Browns.

[ravensfan160]

If I had one question for Cam Cameron it would be this.

How can we add Boldin, Housh, a healthy Todd Heap, and two young TE's, and our offense get worse?

Anyone...? And don't take the easy route and blame Joe.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1284929803' post='481893']
If I had one question for Cam Cameron it would be this.

How can we add Boldin, Housh, a healthy Todd Heap, and two young TE's, and our offense get worse?

Anyone...? And don't take the easy route and blame Joe.
[/quote]
There's no chemistry with the new skill players and the offensive line is constantly shuffling due to injury.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1284929803' post='481893']
If I had one question for Cam Cameron it would be this.

How can we add Boldin, Housh, a healthy Todd Heap, and two young TE's, and our offense get worse?

Anyone...? And don't take the easy route and blame Joe.
[/quote]

The chemistry simply isn't there.

[HDG-52]

Cam Cameron stinks !!!!! PERIOD !!!!!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1284929927' post='481903']
The chemistry simply isn't there.
[/quote]
I dont think its simply that, chemistry comes in when you have a guy covered and you know he can come up big for you. Or your throwing balls when a guy hasnt come out of his break yet because you know he knows where hes supposed to be. Chemistry is trusting a guy to know his assignments and his depths and throwing a ball in a tight window knowing he'll come down with it. Sometimes you hardly ever see a Ravens receiver just flat out open, I dont mean nobody around, but really how often can Cam break down a zone with his route concepts, or run a pick crossing route with multiple receivers in man coverage.

Too many of Cams route concepts just flat out suck.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1284929904' post='481900']
There's no chemistry with the new skill players and the offensive line is constantly shuffling due to injury.
[/quote]


[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1284929927' post='481903']
The chemistry simply isn't there.
[/quote]
That is a lazy answer IMO. Boldin and Housh made big plays for us last week. Mason is still here. And except for the TD where was he all game. Heaps still here and so is Ray Rice.

I'm going to answer my own question. Joe is feeling the pressure since he now has "no excuses" and is trying to force the ball to his receivers. Its ironic because last year I was so tired of the checkdown, but today I found myself screaming at the TV for Joe to check it down to Rice.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1284931503' post='482020']
That is a lazy answer IMO. Boldin and Housh made big plays for us last week. Mason is still here. And except for the TD where was he all game. Heaps still here and so is Ray Rice.

I'm going to answer my own question. Joe is feeling the pressure since he now has "no excuses" and is trying to force the ball to his receivers. Its ironic because last year I was so tired of the checkdown, but today I found myself screaming at the TV for Joe to check it down to Rice.
[/quote]
You have to give credit to the Bengals defense, though, for watching game film and applying great pressure on a porous offensive ilne.

That said, though, you have to consider that Boldin and Houshmandzadeh contributed big in Week 1 because of miscues by Antonio Cromartie and Kyle Wilson; if not for those two defenders, Boldin and Housh would've had minimal impact.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1284931790' post='482029']
You have to give credit to the Bengals defense, though, for watching game film and applying great pressure on a porous offensive ilne.

That said, though, you have to consider that Boldin and Houshmandzadeh contributed big in Week 1 because of miscues by Antonio Cromartie and Kyle Wilson; if not for those two defenders, Boldin and Housh would've had minimal impact.
[/quote]
Those miscues were a result of them getting beat by our WR's. If they don't interfere its a reception. I fail to see your point.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1284931457' post='482017']
I dont think its simply that, chemistry comes in when you have a guy covered and you know he can come up big for you. Or your throwing balls when a guy hasnt come out of his break yet because you know he knows where hes supposed to be. Chemistry is trusting a guy to know his assignments and his depths and throwing a ball in a tight window knowing he'll come down with it. Sometimes you hardly ever see a Ravens receiver just flat out open, I dont mean nobody around, but really how often can Cam break down a zone with his route concepts, or run a pick crossing route with multiple receivers in man coverage.

Too many of Cams route concepts just flat out suck.
[/quote]

You're right. Cam's offense don't appear to feature many combination routes. His play-book aside, his ability(or lack thereof) to asses the flow of a game is mind-numbing.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1284931982' post='482038']
Those miscues were a result of them getting beat by our WR's. If they don't interfere its a reception. I fail to see your point.
[/quote]

They were getting beat because they aren't as good. Not that that's an excuse for the miscues by Joe but Hall, Joseph and Jones are a better trio than Revis, Cromartie and Wilson.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1284932031' post='482042']
You're right. Cam's offense don't appear to feature many combination routes. His play-book aside, his ability(or lack thereof) to asses the flow of a game is mind-numbing.
[/quote]
Like Boldin should be running 75% of his routes, just overtop the LBs and in front of the safeties. This is why we got him, to pull the LBs back from the LOS. I understand Mason doesnt run a whole lot across the field but, Boldin and TJ should be dominating the middle of the field.