Most Indispensable Player

[Xelfer]

I was talking with some friends during Thursdays game, the subject of who the Ravens must have in the game, who could we (Ravens) absolutely not afford to lose for any reason.

Flaco, Rice, Bolden, and a few linemen's (both Off & Def) names came up, but my nephew said Ray Lewis and the room went silent. He said everyone else has some sort of back up to fill in for them, but not Ray Lewis, and with the shape of our defense, he felt it was absolutely a must to have him on the field calling out to the defense.

After some thought, I have to agree, I don't want to lose anyone, but losing #52 would be devastating. What are your thought's?

[Natural Born Hitters]

Ray would still be on the sidelines coaching our players, not only that but we have a ton of depth in our LB's. It would suck for him to get injured, but we wont talk about that..

[theFRANCHISE]

Though losing Ray Lewis would be a huge loss from a motivational standpoint, this defense has played without him before due to injury, and played reasonably well.

I think Ray Rice is the Ravens' most indispensable player, even with a [i]very[/i] capable backup in Willis McGahee, mainly because he has the largest bulls-eye on his chest after last season and he is the second-biggest piece around which the Ravens' offense is built, next to Joe Flacco. Though Flacco going down would be a huge blow, Marc Bulger can be asked to simply manage the game and still eke out a couple of victories. Rice's production, meanwhile, cannot be easily replicated. Additionally, even if Rice has a down year in 2010, teams will still gameplan and account for him because of his skill set.

[Ngata92NT]

Even without Ray we still have Suggs, Johnson, Ngata, Gregg and Landry to lead the defense. Without Ray we're not complete but we'd still be a very good defense.

I'm going with LT Michael Oher as our most indispensable player right now. Without Gaither and Cousins losing Oher would be devastating to our O-Line. (the O-line is kinda important).

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1284220586' post='471741']
Even without Ray we still have Suggs, Johnson, Ngata, Gregg and Landry to lead the defense. Without Ray we're not complete but we'd still be a very good defense.

[b]I'm going with LT Michael Oher as our most indispensable player right now. Without Gaither and Cousins losing Oher would be devastating to our O-Line. (the O-line is kinda important).[/b]
[/quote]

I was going to go with Ngata but you bring up a great point with Oher. With Gaither out and seemingly no set timetable for his return, Oher is the only healthy player I'd feel comfortable seeing at LT.

[Ravens Beast]

I say Billy Cundiff. Without him...no field goals!!

[Sizzle]

Ray Rice.

[T-Sizz]

We have so much depth everywhere it's ridiculous. losing mcclain would hurt us, also reed not out there stings

[ZIBBY28]

it's a toss up b/w Oher and Rice in my book for the reasons already mentioned

[Bltravens]

On defense its a toss up between Suggs and Lewis. Without Suggs our pass rush becomes bottom 5 in the league, and every year with Lewis he is forced to line up some of our younger guys in the right spots. Without that there would be times when our young DBs and ILBs would be in the wrong spots and the wrong coverages. Offense its Rice, Rice made this offense go last year and he's going to keep defenses honest against our offense.

[K-Dog]

no question in my mind.
Ray Rice not being in the game would hurt the most.

[Xelfer]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1284223086' post='471761']
I was going to go with Ngata but you bring up a great point with Oher. With Gaither out and seemingly no set timetable for his return, Oher is the only healthy player I'd feel comfortable seeing at LT.
[/quote]


My nephew still believes it's Ray, with all the switching and new players, Rays directions and presence will be key for D this year. Others 'could' fill in, sure, but Ngata on the line, he's not as able to direct those behind him.

Ed, very good point bringing up Ngata, with Edwards gone, he actually may be the most indispensable. Oher on the O-line, I agree as well.

[edreedfromtheu]

It's Ray Lewis, easily. ESPECIALLY while Ed Reed is out.

[PuRock]

I'd have to say Oher. Because our O-Line is so thin right now. We lose Oher and all the weapons we have at WR and RB won't really matter that much.

But if Gaither and Oher are both back, then I would say Ray Rice.

[Jabara]

I'm going to have to say Joe Flacco.
Even if Bulger did step in and was able to finish the 2010 season. I don't see him able to continue at a high level for years to come, which is what we are investing in Flacco.
We'd have to get a new, young, franchise QB and groom him, etc. and as we all know, first that's not easy, and second, it takes a few years.
For those that say Rice, there tends to be an abundance of young RB's available in the draft, but a great franchise QB is much harder to find.
As for Ray Lewis or Ngata, they are so good at what they do, that our back ups to them are on par or better than the rest of the league.

[MagicianCamille]

It's hard to choose somebody because of the incredible depth we have on this team.

I am actually going to go with Haloti Ngata though. His sheer athleticism and ability to wreak havoc on the front lines every play, combined with the fact that we have nobody who can even partly fill his shoes, makes him the Ravens' most indispensable player.

For Ray Rice, we DO still have a running game if he goes down. McGahee is still a good back, and McClain would get more carries, and we all know what he can do. Don't get me wrong though, he'd be my second choice.

Joe Flacco, losing him for a year would suck in the long-term, but in the short-term I don't think he's an Elite QB right now. Marc Bulger isn't better, but I'd still be quite confident having him under center in that situation.

Ray Lewis would continue to inspire the team from the sideline, while one of his young students fills his spot on the field. It would still be a drop-off don't get me wrong, but I don't think it'd be as catastrophic as it might have been a few years ago.

[noy]

The best way to look at this question is to determine where the most significant dropoff in performance would be, so much so that the opposing team would exploit it as a weakness.

I'm not sure why people are pointing to the defensive line, because we are pretty deep at that position. Ngata is a luxury as a player because he is so dominant and strong, but to say Cody or McKinney cant come in and keep the line formidable is a mistake, imo. If we lose Ngata, are teams going to think "Oh, [i]now [/i]we can run on the Ravens". I don't think so.

I also question people choosing Ray Rice. Willis McGahee looks absolutely massive this year, and I think he has accepted his role as a smashmouth runningback with his always impressive stiff arm. To me, it's not that Willis would be a lot less effective, it's that he has a differen't style of running. Again, would teams see Willis in the backfield and decide that they can take more of an approach to defending the passing game? If they do, it would be a big mistake.

I agree that it is still Ray Lewis. It's a good point to say that when Ray's been injured the defense has still been solid, except we're forgetting one thing; who had Ray's back in these situations? People say Suggs and I agree to an extent. He is an OLB/DE hybrid, meaning he has his hand in the dirt quite often. Being there, does he have the ability to see what the offense is doing at all times like a MLB does? The MLB is always standing, positioned in the center of the defense, giving him the ability to make audibles and read the offense. A DE, from my perspective, does not have that same vision. So that leaves Adalius Thomas and Bart Scott to pick up the slack when Ray was injured, especially in 05. Both were experienced guys who had tasted success as a linebacker; making them confident in their decision-making.

Now, if you look at our situation now, do we still have the same experience backing Ray up? McClain? Ellerbe? Gooden? I don't think so. Having two of the three in there gives great talent to the position, but not leadership; not the way Ray fuels this defense.

Unless I am unaware that JJ can play MLB as well as OLB, I'm still sticking with this argument that Ray is still the be all of this team. It's why all the other fans continue to underestimate him as a player, because they only see his tangible assets (tackles) rather than his intangibles (emotion and leadership).

[MagicianCamille]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1284244449' post='471965']Ngata is a luxury as a player because he is so dominant and strong, but to say Cody or McKinney cant come in and keep the line formidable is a mistake, imo. If we lose Ngata, are teams going to think "Oh, [i]now [/i]we can run on the Ravens". I don't think so.[/quote]

Have you seen Ngata play? He isn't just great at defending the run, he destroys offensive linemen and gets his hands in the quarterback's face. He's also made a couple of picks I believe. The reason Ngata isn't replaceable buy guys like Cody and McKinney isn't his girth (lol), it's his athletic ability. Cody is a sack of mashed potatoes, he's not going to get his hands on the ball or get to the quarterback. Ngata can.

[quote]they only see his tangible assets (tackles) rather than his intangibles (emotion and leadership).
[/quote]

Ray can still be the emotional leader of this team without suiting up. We have young linebackers in the wings who have been studying under Ray for years, and while it wouldn't be the same, they'd still be effective.

[noy]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' timestamp='1284259255' post='472162']
Have you seen Ngata play? He isn't just great at defending the run, he destroys offensive linemen and gets his hands in the quarterback's face. He's also made a couple of picks I believe. The reason Ngata isn't replaceable buy guys like Cody and McKinney isn't his girth (lol), it's his athletic ability. Cody is a sack of mashed potatoes, he's not going to get his hands on the ball or get to the quarterback. Ngata can.



Ray can still be the emotional leader of this team without suiting up. We have young linebackers in the wings who have been studying under Ray for years, and while it wouldn't be the same, they'd still be effective.
[/quote]

That argument would work well for Ngata if he was proven to be an effective pass rusher, but the fact of the matter is he isn't. His name and the words "pass rushing" have only just come up this preseason, where he has said to the media that he is working on his pass rushing capability (but he is still in theory).

And you didn't quite get my argument. I'm not saying anybody is replaceable, I'm talking about who can step in for the missing player and make the least impact in terms of diminished performance.

You're telling me that having any one of our three extremely young linebackers can come in and be more comparable to Ray Lewis, than any of the similiar tackles we have to replace Ngata? We've seem Cody draw doubles teams, and that's more than enough for Ray Lewis and any MLB.

And the sidelines argument is bogus. Ray Lewis cant call audibles from the sideline, all he can do is give advice after the play has already happened. That play could have been a 4th down conversion in the redzone, or even a TD. Now, would you rather have Ray in there to have the best chance to defend that play? Or have him give advice/criticism after the mistake has already been made? Our linebackers haven't had enough time to feel comfortable leading a defense; one or two offseasons won't cut it (not everybody can understand the game as fast as Ray).

[UxbridgeRaven]

Knocking on wood right now Michael Oher would be the biggest blow, in my opinion, and that will stay the same until Gaither returns. Tony Moll and O'Neil Cousins starting at tackle. No thanks.

[Rav'n Maniac]

I, as well, feel Oher is our most indispensable player at this point and God forbid something would happen. I'm not totally confident in Cousins & Moll on the right side, without TE blocking help, and i don't want to see either having to play on the left side. Gaither's status is hurting us right now, to what degree is dependent on the play of the other tackles. We should have put Gaither on IR and brought Adam Terry back for a one year contract after the Colts released him, but that's a moot point now.

[Reed_4_President]

[quote name='Xelfer' timestamp='1284217919' post='471714']
I was talking with some friends during Thursdays game, the subject of who the Ravens must have in the game, who could we (Ravens) absolutely not afford to lose for any reason.

Flaco, Rice, Bolden, and a few linemen's (both Off & Def) names came up, but my nephew said Ray Lewis and the room went silent. He said everyone else has some sort of back up to fill in for them, but not Ray Lewis, and with the shape of our defense, he felt it was absolutely a must to have him on the field calling out to the defense.

After some thought, I have to agree, I don't want to lose anyone, but losing #52 would be devastating. What are your thought's?
[/quote]

We need Reed back more then anyone.. and in my opinion he is the #1 player we cannot afford to lose and we have..

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Reed_4_President' timestamp='1284308304' post='472323']
We need Reed back more then anyone.. and in my opinion he is the #1 player we cannot afford to lose and we have..
[/quote]
Tom Zbikowski played extremely well in Reed's absence last year, notching an interception in each of his 4 starts, with two of them negated by penalty. If that isn't a nose for the football, I don't know what is.

[emmgz19]

yeah we really need to keep him under our belt becuz he is helpin the team alottt

[ravenwildman]

Ray Lewis would be the most psychological hit on the team I would think, but losing any key player would domino effect the team in one way or another. Lets hope this thread is the closest we come to losing anyone though!

GO RAVENS!

[i82much]

Oher or just about any corner would seem to be the two hits we could take where we just don't have any depth. But - for the early part of the season, at least - I'm going to throw another name in the mix.

Derrick Mason.

It's not so much that I don't think Boldin or Housh are as good. But Mason has been Flacco's go-to guy for two years now, and there's only so much familiarity you can develop with a WR after a training camp and a few preseason games (Boldin) or even less (Housh).

Also I kind of think Heap would be a huge loss, for similar reasons. Yeah, we drafted two guys who are probably going to be quality NFL players, but one missed blocking assignment by a TE could be huge. Basically I'm saying that, even when you have other quality athletes available, there's an awful lot to be said for guys who have been playing together for a few years.

And yeah, if Revis follows Boldin around all night, I think Mason's in for a big game. Not sure about Heap as he may not get many opportunities to go downfield, depending on how the O line holds up.

[jonnyloback76]

[quote name='Ravens Beast' timestamp='1284223854' post='471764']
I say Billy Cundiff. Without him...no field goals!!
[/quote]

With him.....no field goals. HAHA. Ray Lewis hands down. When he retires it just keeps making me wonder who is going to become the beat that this team circles around and dances to. It will TRULY be a missed scenario when he doesn't run out of that tunnel because he has hung up his cleats.

[Jabara]

Ray Lewis is without a doubt the face of the Ravens and the greatest Raven to have yet played in Bmore.
But at this point in his career, everyone already knows that he'll be retiring sooner than later. It's a tough call to suggest that he isn't the Most Indispensable Player.
It depends what exactly is meant by that.
When I said that Flacco was the Most Indispensable Player we had, I was assuming it was meant, that we can't at this point, lose for good. Ray already has back ups in place, that are great, maybe not as great as what he brings to the table. There may never be another player like that.
But, at this point, we can not lose Flacco. We can not start over next year with a rookie QB, and again, wait for him to be groomed for 3+ years.

What is the one thing the Ravens never had?
A successful 1st round pick QB, groomed in Bmore that went on to be a possible future Hall of Famer.
Who could potentially fill in for Ray as far as the leader of this team that is indispensable, when Ray hangs up the cleats?
[b]Flacco[/b]

[JLFravens]

Lewis one million times, just listen what he says i'll follow him.