No One Can Make Excuses For The Offense

[nk02442]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1283801191' post='467113']
Flacco is our guy and there is no question. People seem to forget that he took us to the AFC Championship with Mason and CLayton as our starters, and then deep into the playoffs the following year as well. People also seem to assume that we will be passing the entire game. RAY RICE!!! Remember we still have this guy and we will still pound the rock and see amazing plays from our young RB. Thing is, in passing situations now, we are STACKED. Very tough to guard these three receivers, plus Heap, Dickson, Pitta, Rice out of the backfield. Our offense looks ferocious. We need to now address the corners one last time
[/quote]

Flacco has done nothing in the post season. Look at his numbers. If it was not for our running game and Defense, we would have never even made the playoffs. Joe is not Aaron Rodgers. I am not saying Joe wont develop into a good/great QB, but he has been average at best. It's not his talent I am concerned with its his decision making. The last 2 years his pass progression has been Mason, Heap if open, check down to RR. He does not see the field as a whole and does not throw fades and deep passes with consitancy. As much as I did not like clayton, there were many many times he beat a corner with no saftey coverage and joe just checks to RR. He needs to utalize his whole arsenal. he also needs to work on 5-7 step drops and his pocket presence. With a shakey O-Line (Yes Oher at LT and backups at RT is very shakey) he needs to know when to dump it to avoid sacks, fumbles and lost yards. Ever watch peyton manning. Why does he get sacked so little? Its not beacuse of a all pro O-line.

I honestly belive in a fair and open competition, Marc Burgler would take his job. But they are looking to the future. Marc is no Favre and on the downside of his career. If he didn't spend the last 3 years getting pummled in STL, he would have been one of the premier QB in the league.

This is Joe's Make or break year. If he does not throw for 4k yards and atleast a 90QB rating they need to move on. Hell, his inflated numbers last year were from check downs to RR. Take away 700 yards and 70 receptions and his numbers are not great. He needs to be able to bring the team from behind to win games. He needs to step it up when it matters the most, in the playoffs. I'm sorry but even if u beat the Pats at home in january, 4/10 and 34yards and a pick in discusting. Step it up Joe or find a new place to squat.

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283867050' post='468147']
Flacco has done nothing in the post season. Look at his numbers. If it was not for our running game and Defense, we would have never even made the playoffs. Joe is not Aaron Rodgers. I am not saying Joe wont develop into a good/great QB, but he has been average at best. It's not his talent I am concerned with its his decision making. The last 2 years his pass progression has been Mason, Heap if open, check down to RR. He does not see the field as a whole and does not throw fades and deep passes with consitancy. As much as I did not like clayton, there were many many times he beat a corner with no saftey coverage and joe just checks to RR. He needs to utalize his whole arsenal. he also needs to work on 5-7 step drops and his pocket presence. With a shakey O-Line (Yes Oher at LT and backups at RT is very shakey) he needs to know when to dump it to avoid sacks, fumbles and lost yards. Ever watch peyton manning. Why does he get sacked so little? Its not beacuse of a all pro O-line.

[b]I honestly belive in a fair and open competition, Marc Burgler would take his job.[/b] But they are looking to the future. Marc is no Favre and on the downside of his career. If he didn't spend the last 3 years getting pummled in STL, he would have been one of the premier QB in the league.

This is Joe's Make or break year. If he does not throw for 4k yards and atleast a 90QB rating they need to move on. Hell, his inflated numbers last year were from check downs to RR. Take away 700 yards and 70 receptions and his numbers are not great. He needs to be able to bring the team from behind to win games. He needs to step it up when it matters the most, in the playoffs. I'm sorry but even if u beat the Pats at home in january, 4/10 and 34yards and 2 picks in discusting. Step it up Joe or find a new place to squat.
[/quote]

Have you not seen the Rams play over the past few years?

[nk02442]

[quote name='Give it to Clutch Clayton' timestamp='1283867509' post='468149']
Have you not seen the Rams play over the past few years?
[/quote]

Are you new to football or have you not seen the 5 souless corpses that they call a O-Line in STL over the last couple years. Marc, when afforded decent protection, has proven to be a Pro Bowl caliber QB. Not to mention absolutley no talent aside from Avery. My comment still stands.

[theFRANCHISE]

It's important to keep in mind that, even with a record number of QBs surpassing 4000 passing yards last season, the benchmark for a Pro Bowl QB still remains 3500 yards and 20-25 TDs; until 4000 yards is reached by over a handful of QBs with regularity (which could conceivably happen sooner than later), that benchmark still stands as the litmus test for a QB's development. Flacco's done it once in his career in only his second season, so if he can do it again and maintain this level of consistency, then he'll be fine.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283867050' post='468147']
Flacco has done nothing in the post season. Look at his numbers. If it was not for our running game and Defense, we would have never even made the playoffs. Joe is not Aaron Rodgers. I am not saying Joe wont develop into a good/great QB, but he has been average at best. It's not his talent I am concerned with its his decision making. The last 2 years his pass progression has been Mason, Heap if open, check down to RR. He does not see the field as a whole and does not throw fades and deep passes with consitancy. As much as I did not like clayton, there were many many times he beat a corner with no saftey coverage and joe just checks to RR. He needs to utalize his whole arsenal. he also needs to work on 5-7 step drops and his pocket presence. With a shakey O-Line (Yes Oher at LT and backups at RT is very shakey) he needs to know when to dump it to avoid sacks, fumbles and lost yards. Ever watch peyton manning. Why does he get sacked so little? Its not beacuse of a all pro O-line.

I honestly belive in a fair and open competition, Marc Burgler would take his job. But they are looking to the future. Marc is no Favre and on the downside of his career. If he didn't spend the last 3 years getting pummled in STL, he would have been one of the premier QB in the league.

This is Joe's Make or break year. If he does not throw for 4k yards and atleast a 90QB rating they need to move on. Hell, his inflated numbers last year were from check downs to RR. Take away 700 yards and 70 receptions and his numbers are not great. He needs to be able to bring the team from behind to win games. He needs to step it up when it matters the most, in the playoffs. I'm sorry but even if u beat the Pats at home in january, 4/10 and 34yards and a pick in discusting. Step it up Joe or find a new place to squat.
[/quote]

Great post

And lol@ people still bringing up meaningless regular season stats...you know stats where Joe faced the browns,raiders,lions etc etc..

Where are those playoff stats and qb ratings...you know when the championships are really won

One poster said Joe won 3 playoff games....lol..no he didnt.

Kyle Boller and Anthony Wright could've won the dolphin and patriot games. I'll give him minimum credit for at least keeping his head against the titans..and ROFL @ the games we lost in the playoffs..

He hasn't been apart of this team in the post season....just another Ravens Qb
Holding The defenses belt strap

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1283868182' post='468157']
Great post

And lol@ people still bringing up meaningless regular season stats...you know stats where Joe faced the browns,raiders,lions etc etc..

Where are those playoff stats and qb ratings...you know when the championships are really won

One poster said Joe won 3 playoff games....lol..no he didnt.

Kyle Boller and Anthony Wright could've won the dolphin and patriot games. I'll give him minimum credit for at least keeping his head against the titans..and ROFL @ the games we lost in the playoffs..

He hasn't been apart of this team in the post season....just another Ravens Qb
Holding The defenses belt strap
[/quote]
Tom Brady played against some average-to-mediocre defenses last year in the Bills twice, the Dolphins twice, the flash-in-the-pan Broncos, the Buccaneers, the Panthers, and the Jaguars -- should we discredit him as a good QB just because the schedule's given him some weak opponents? Drew Brees played against the Lions, the Bucs twice, the Panthers twice, the Dolphins, the Rams...do we discredit him as the league's best QB as well, just because he posted good numbers against bad teams?

Good players play well against bad teams. That's what they're supposed to do. To struggle against good teams isn't a bad thing, so long as the team remains competitive in those games. And thus far, in every playoff game except the Colts and arguably the Steelers, Flacco's done just enough to keep the team in the game. That's all you can ask of a QB in his first two seasons. You won't get a Peyton Manning overnight, and even Manning in his rookie season was pretty mediocre with his TD-INT ratio.

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283867800' post='468154']
Are you new to football or have you not seen the 5 souless corpses that they call a O-Line in STL over the last couple years. Marc, when afforded decent protection, has proven to be a Pro Bowl caliber QB. Not to mention absolutley no talent aside from Avery. My comment still stands.
[/quote]

Good players make things happen. Marc Bulger hasn't been a "Pro Bowl caliber" QB since 2006. Even then it was borderline. Stop making excuses for Bulger, his Pro Bowl days are loooooong gone.

Joe Flacco hasn't exactly had the best talent around him. As much as I love them; Mason, Heap and Clayton weren't even in the top 16 receiving corps in the NFL.

Flacco is better than Bulger, period. Flacco is OUR guy, period.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1283868587' post='468163']
Tom Brady played against some average-to-mediocre defenses last year in the Bills twice, the Dolphins twice, the flash-in-the-pan Broncos, the Buccaneers, the Panthers, and the Jaguars -- should we discredit him as a good QB just because the schedule's given him some weak opponents? Drew Brees played against the Lions, the Bucs twice, the Panthers twice, the Dolphins, the Rams...do we discredit him as the league's best QB as well, just because he posted good numbers against bad teams?

Good players play well against bad teams. That's what they're supposed to do. To struggle against good teams isn't a bad thing, so long as the team remains competitive in those games. And thus far, in every playoff game except the Colts and arguably the Steelers, Flacco's done just enough to keep the team in the game. That's all you can ask of a QB in his first two seasons. You won't get a Peyton Manning overnight, and even Manning in his rookie season was pretty mediocre with his TD-INT ratio.
[/quote]


What!!!

Tom Brady !!!

Are you kidding me..

Tom Brady can do whatever he wants against whoever he wants cause he's a multiple time superbowl champion.


Joe has 1 TD and 6int and is completing LESS then 50% of his passes in the playoffs...OUCH!!!

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1283868919' post='468168']
What!!!

Tom Brady !!!

Are you kidding me..

Tom Brady can do whatever he wants against whoever he wants cause he's a multiple time superbowl champion.


Joe has 1 TD and 6int and is completing LESS then 50% of his passes in the playoffs...OUCH!!!
[/quote]

Flacco's going into his THIRD year. THIRD.

What? Was he supposed to come from D-2 Delaware and win back to back Superbowls in his first 2 years?

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='Give it to Clutch Clayton' timestamp='1283868657' post='468165']
Good players make things happen. Marc Bulger hasn't been a "Pro Bowl caliber" QB since 2006. Even then it was borderline. Stop making excuses for Bulger, his Pro Bowl days are loooooong gone.

Joe Flacco hasn't exactly had the best talent around him. As much as I love them; Mason, Heap and Clayton weren't even in the top 16 receiving corps in the NFL.

Flacco is better than Bulger, period. Flacco is OUR guy, period.
[/quote]


Lmao

So we can't make excuses for Bulger but then you follow that with an excuse for Flacco

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1283869099' post='468171']
Lmao

So we can't make excuses for Bulger but then you follow that with an excuse for Flacco
[/quote]

No, I was merely referring to the excuses Flacco could have, levelling the playing field.

Flacco is better than Bulger. It's not rocket science.

[berad]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1283868182' post='468157']
Great post

And lol@ people still bringing up meaningless regular season stats...you know stats where Joe faced the browns,raiders,lions etc etc..

Where are those playoff stats and qb ratings...you know when the championships are really won

[b]One poster said Joe won 3 playoff games....lol..no he didnt.[/b]

Kyle Boller and Anthony Wright could've won the dolphin and patriot games. I'll give him minimum credit for at least keeping his head against the titans..and ROFL @ the games we lost in the playoffs..

He hasn't been apart of this team in the post season....just another Ravens Qb
Holding The defenses belt strap
[/quote]

You're right. The Ravens did.

Joe Flacco, or any other QB in the NFL, doesn't have a win solely to their name. Their respective teams hold those records. With Joe Flacco, the Ravens have won 3 post-season games, more than any other QB before him, besides Trent Dilfer. Can you agree that Flacco > Dilfer?

[berad]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283867050' post='468147']
Flacco has done nothing in the post season. Look at his numbers. [b]If it was not for our running game and Defense, we would have never even made the playoffs.[/b] Joe is not Aaron Rodgers. I am not saying Joe wont develop into a good/great QB, but he has been average at best. It's not his talent I am concerned with its his decision making. The last 2 years his pass progression has been Mason, Heap if open, check down to RR. He does not see the field as a whole and does not throw fades and deep passes with consitancy. As much as I did not like clayton, there were many many times he beat a corner with no saftey coverage and joe just checks to RR. He needs to utalize his whole arsenal. he also needs to work on 5-7 step drops and his pocket presence. With a shakey O-Line (Yes Oher at LT and backups at RT is very shakey) he needs to know when to dump it to avoid sacks, fumbles and lost yards. Ever watch peyton manning. Why does he get sacked so little? Its not beacuse of a all pro O-line.

I honestly belive in a fair and open competition, Marc Burgler would take his job. But they are looking to the future. Marc is no Favre and on the downside of his career. If he didn't spend the last 3 years getting pummled in STL, he would have been one of the premier QB in the league.

This is Joe's Make or break year. If he does not throw for 4k yards and atleast a 90QB rating they need to move on. [b]Hell, his inflated numbers last year were from check downs to RR. Take away 700 yards and 70 receptions and his numbers are not great.[/b] He needs to be able to bring the team from behind to win games. He needs to step it up when it matters the most, in the playoffs. I'm sorry but even if u beat the Pats at home in january, 4/10 and 34yards and a pick in discusting. Step it up Joe or find a new place to squat.
[/quote]

Really?? That's an extremely obvious statement.

Unless your QB is Peyton Manning, you need at least a solid running game and defense to win games in the NFL and, by extension, make the playoffs.

And why would you just omit the leading receiver from Joe's statistics? Take away Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne from Peyton Manning, and he stinks, too.

[I*Bleed*Purple]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1283868182' post='468157']
...and ROFL @ the games we lost in the playoffs...
[/quote]
Really?!?! I do understand the concern of his postseason numbers, but "rofl"? And you are a "fan" of the same team I am? This isn't Philly.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='I*Bleed*Purple' timestamp='1283869853' post='468187']
Really?!?! I do understand the concern of his postseason numbers, but "rofl"? And you are a "fan" of the same team I am? This isn't Philly.
[/quote]

Yes ROFL...

That's what happens when you have a qb with those kinda playoff numbers and a fanbase that is so quick to keep him around for the next 15 years.

It becomes laughable

Flacco hasn't earned anything...sorry

And I see we're back to the whole...you don't like Flacco so your not a Fan aspect..

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1283870275' post='468191']
And I see we're back to the whole...you don't like Flacco so your not a Fan aspect..
[/quote]
It's not that you're not a fan, it's just that your expectations seem a bit high and unrealistic, especially given that Flacco is progressing just as a QB entering his third season should. There's no such thing as an elite QB made overnight, and this team doesn't necessarily need an elite QB [i]right now[/i] to win a Super Bowl this season, even though this has become a passing league.

[CNC]

THe people who dont appreciate Joe Flacco were not Raven Fans 6 Years ago during the Boller Era. They say Flacco cant read the defense well, Boller couldn't even walk backwards......Boller read the defense so well He offered the football as a gift.....Time, and Time again.

Appreciate what we have, Flacco in his first game showed more than Boller did in 5 years. and we have no reason to believe he can't get better.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283867050' post='468147']
Flacco has done nothing in the post season. Look at his numbers.
[/quote]

I don't even know where to begin with this. Ravens' called the run 2 to 1 over the pass. You don't think that had anything to do with his numbers? His best receiver was Mason, who was ready to retire. I guess I missed something because I thought it was about winning the game. Not who could throw the most passes. My bad.

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283867050' post='468147']
I honestly belive in a fair and open competition, Marc Burgler would take his job. But they are looking to the future. Marc is no Favre and on the downside of his career. If he didn't spend the last 3 years getting pummled in STL, he would have been one of the premier QB in the league.
[/quote]


I find it amusing that you blame Joe for his sack numbers in large part, give Peyton credit for his low sack numbers but then go on to blame the O line for Bulger's sacks in STL.


[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283867050' post='468147']
This is Joe's Make or break year. If he does not throw for 4k yards and atleast a 90QB rating they need to move on.
[/quote]

Peyton Manning drew a QB rating of only 84.1 in his 4th year and 88.8 in his 5th year. How stupid of the Colts not to go QB shopping. In his sophomore year his QB rating was 90.7, Joe's was 88.9. Just a hair under Manning's. I might add that he had more INTs than Joe as well. As for the check down stats, well, Manning only completed 8 passes for 40+ yards last season. The exact same number as Flacco. Manning's longest pass was for 80 yds. Joe's longest was for 72 yds.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1283870474' post='468195']
It's not that you're not a fan, it's just that your expectations seem a bit high and unrealistic, especially given that Flacco is progressing just as a QB entering his third season should. There's no such thing as an elite QB made overnight, and this team doesn't necessarily need an elite QB [i]right now[/i] to win a Super Bowl this season, even though this has become a passing league.
[/quote]

My expectations are high and unrealistic?

I want Flacco to get rid of some of these bad habits and help this team win a superbowl...


If thats to much...then I don't know what to say

[nk02442]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1283869833' post='468186']
Really?? That's an extremely obvious statement.

Unless your QB is Peyton Manning, you need at least a solid running game and defense to win games in the NFL and, by extension, make the playoffs.

And why would you just omit the leading receiver from Joe's statistics? Take away Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne from Peyton Manning, and he stinks, too.
[/quote]

1. Manning would go to Garcon or Colie. Both would be 1000yd's if they wernt 3rd+ on targets. He could make Mark Clayton or Randel El a pro bowler.

2Our run game isint Solid, Its Top 3 easy. If we had a Running game like say the Pats or the Bronocs, do you really think we would have made playoffs and beat the Pats? Not with 34 yards passing we wouldnt have.

Stop hanging from Flaco's jock. He has done nothing but manage games for our D and run game. Either the Coaches dont trust him letting it rip or he really does have bad decision making, or both. This is the make or break year for him.

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283871582' post='468209']
1. Manning would go to Garcon or Colie. Both would be 1000yd's if they wernt 3rd+ on targets. He could make Mark Clayton or Randel El a pro bowler.

2Our run game isint Solid, Its Top 3 easy. If we had a Running game like say the Pats or the Bronocs, do you really think we would have made playoffs and beat the Pats? Not with 34 yards passing we wouldnt have.

Stop hanging from Flaco's jock. He has done nothing but manage games for our D and run game. Either the Coaches dont trust him letting it rip or he really does have bad decision making, or both. This is the make or break year for him.
[/quote]

How about you stop bashing our 3rd year Quarterback first?

People will defend Flacco if he is being attacked, unfairly, like he is now.

And yes, Manning would be able to turn just about anyone into a 1000 yard receiver. Why? Because he's, arguably, the best Quarterback to ever play the game. Comparing every Quarterback to Manning is just silly.

[nk02442]

SNIP
I find it amusing that you blame Joe for his sack numbers in large part, give Peyton credit for his low sack numbers but then go on to blame the O line for Bulger's sacks in STL.
SNIP

There is a big difference between a solid O line and a QB with bad pocket pressence and a QB who has NO O LINE. Kind of hard to make bad decisions when you are getting rocked as soon as you hit your drop. Stop trying to to pick apart my logic with stupid replys and comment on the subject at hand.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283871976' post='468218']
SNIP
I find it amusing that you blame Joe for his sack numbers in large part, give Peyton credit for his low sack numbers but then go on to blame the O line for Bulger's sacks in STL.
SNIP

There is a big difference between a solid O line and a QB with bad pocket pressence and a QB who has NO O LINE. Kind of hard to make bad decisions when you are getting rocked as soon as you hit your drop. Stop trying to to pick apart my logic with stupid replys and comment on the subject at hand.
[/quote]

The rest of my post which you chose not to quote DID address the subject at hand. Just saying.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='Give it to Clutch Clayton' timestamp='1283869070' post='468170']
Flacco's going into his THIRD year. THIRD.

What? Was he supposed to come from D-2 Delaware and win back to back Superbowls in his first 2 years?
[/quote]

Oh yea both big Ben and tom Brady manage to lead their respective teams to superbowls in their first couple of years...so what is this argument about Flacco ONLY being in his 3rd year?

[Terrellb2007]

I agree with everyone in Flacco's corner. This kid came it his rookie year and wowed everyone as a rookie, with his ability to make good decisions and accurate passing. Something we haven't seen in this town for a while. The second year he was consistent and progressed to take us a step further. Now that we have weapons for him to pass if we don't go to the Superbowl which doesn't seem like an option everyone wants to abandon him? I think it's the over excitement of an offense like we have never seen causing some Baltimore fans to behave in an unusual Baltimore fan manner.

[nk02442]

[quote name='Give it to Clutch Clayton' timestamp='1283871756' post='468212']
How about you stop bashing our 3rd year Quarterback first?

People will defend Flacco if he is being attacked, unfairly, like he is now.

And yes, Manning would be able to turn just about anyone into a 1000 yard receiver. Why? Because he's, arguably, the best Quarterback to ever play the game. Comparing every Quarterback to Manning is just silly.
[/quote]

It's not bashing, Its FACT. The numbers do not lie.

When you come back down in to reality , let me know.

I want joe to be the next JohnnyU more than anyone. But I am not delusional because I am a die hard Ravens fan (Which I am).

[I*Bleed*Purple]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283874116' post='468248']
...because I am a die hard Ravens fan (Which I am, when I want to be).
[/quote]
Fixed it for ya!

[I*Bleed*Purple]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1283871205' post='468206']

Peyton Manning drew a QB rating of only 84.1 in his 4th year and 88.8 in his 5th year. How stupid of the Colts not to go QB shopping. In his sophomore year his QB rating was 90.7, Joe's was 88.9. Just a hair under Manning's. I might add that he had more INTs than Joe as well. As for the check down stats, well, Manning only completed 8 passes for 40+ yards last season. The exact same number as Flacco. Manning's longest pass was for 80 yds. Joe's longest was for 72 yds.
[/quote]
Best post of the thread

[SnOoPy]

Why are people bashing Flacco? People act like he sucked his 2nd year or something. He didn't have a sophomore slump. Yeah he did bad during the playoffs. But All he had was Mason and Rice to throw to in the playoff and they was getting double team. We'll see this year what he can do since we have more weapons for Flacco.

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1283874116' post='468248']
It's not bashing, Its FACT. The numbers do not lie.

When you come back down in to reality , let me know.

I want joe to be the next JohnnyU more than anyone. But I am not delusional because I am a die hard Ravens fan (Which I am).
[/quote]

I'm very much in reality right now.

Did I say Joe Flacco was going to be the next JohnnyU? No I didn't.

Did I say Flacco will be absolutely brilliant? No I didn't.

Fact is Quarterbacks aren't elite in their first couple of seasons. Stats back that up. You can't judge a Quarterback by what they do in their first couple of years which is why I said it was an unfair bashing. If he does not improve in year three then yes, you will have a valid point.

I'm not delusional. I don't know if Flacco will be able to lead us to the promised land. I do, however, have belief in him as our Quarterback.

At this point I don't understand the intense criticism of Flacco. He has his problems, yes, but he has the time and dedication to fix them.