Battle Of The Kickers!

[cursona pirate]

Since the cut is coming up and I personally dont see having 2 kickers. I always liked billy cundiff ever since we required him. Im going to make a signature of him!

Cundiff reasons:
*farther kickoff's!
* dosent crack under pressure
* distance!

[PuRock]

I think we will see a lot of FGs tonights. No going for it on 4th and short.

That's probably the most intriguing thing to watch is the kickers. The coaches have already made up their minds about all the other players (for the most part).

[Runnin Raven]

Come on Billy!!

[cursona pirate]

Also billy cundiff been here so he gets bonus points!

[Perfekt]

I hoping billy wins but we wont know til they make the cuts.

[lowrider]

Cundiff is having a better preseason and training camp but I think I trust Graham more, just because he has kicked better over his career. Grahams career kicking accuracy is hard to overlook

[VA_Fan]

I hope Cundiff stays. HIs kick offs are HUGE!!

[edreedfromtheu]

I agree with others... it's all about the kick-offs. And Cundiff's have been deep and had nice hang-time all preseason. I've never seen so many touchbacks, especially during preseason when returners WANT to take it out to prove they should make the roster.

I'm not concerned about field goals because the Ravens offense HAS to be scoring touchdowns if they are going to compete with teams like the Colts in the playoffs. I don't anticipate the Ravens being in too many situations where they have to attempt a field goal over 40 yards. The offense should be moving the ball just fine. Take the guy with the better kick-offs.

[PuRock]

You still can't discount the career numbers of these guys.

Billy Cundiff - FG 73%, 62.2 avg KO, 11 Touchbacks 5.2%
Shayne Graham - FG 85%, 61.8 avg KO, 45 Touchbacks 8.8%

So while many of you are hyping Cundiff's kickoffs, his career average is .4 yards longer than Graham, while Graham has a better touchback percentage.

I think Cundiff has done a fine job, but when it comes down to it, Graham during the season has a better career FG % than Cundiff. The only knock on Graham, which is holding him back are his playoff kicks.

[ravensgirl20]

I'm behind Billy 110%. He came in last year and did an amazing job for us. I appreciate the numbers given in defense of each kidker, however from what I have seen in the preseason I still feel more comfortable with Billy. I hope he is the one kicking for us when the season starts.

[Ngata Chance]

Come on, Billy!

[ravensfan2424]

cundiff definatly is the fan favorite, but unfortunatly graham has history on his side (4th most accurate kicker ever)
Go Cundiff!

[ravensconvert]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1283459956' post='462613']
You still can't discount the career numbers of these guys.

Billy Cundiff - FG 73%, 62.2 avg KO, 11 Touchbacks 5.2%
Shayne Graham - FG 85%, 61.8 avg KO, 45 Touchbacks 8.8%

So while many of you are hyping Cundiff's kickoffs, his career average is .4 yards longer than Graham, while Graham has a better touchback percentage.

I think Cundiff has done a fine job, but when it comes down to it, Graham during the season has a better career FG % than Cundiff. The only knock on Graham, which is holding him back are his playoff kicks.
[/quote]

Sure, but they've each made over 100 kicks in camp this year and Billy has made about 85% to Grahams 80%.

[JohnJohnson]

I'll be so peeved if they choose Graham over Cundiff, because another team will most definitely pick him up, and we'll all get to see first hand how much he's improved. I'm telling you, something changed when he came here. He wants to be a part of this franchise, not a journeyman anymore, and he's working extremely hard to get it. I went to both of the home preseason games, and he has made drastic improvements. It's kind of unbelievable how much farther his kickoffs are soaring, somehow he improved his leg strength or efficiency and it has really unlocked his potential. He can hit 60 yard FG attempts now, and on a good kick off he can boot it out the back of the end zone. He has never had mental hang ups, and last season almost all of his misses could be traced to bad snaps. His technique has improved as well, which accounts for his 85% accuracy in training camp, despite many 50+ yard attempts.

[darklight1216]

Watching part of the Redskins game makes me wish that the Ravens had kept another Graham instead. *sigh*

Go Billy.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1283459956' post='462613']
You still can't discount the career numbers of these guys.

Billy Cundiff - FG 73%, 62.2 avg KO, 11 Touchbacks 5.2%
Shayne Graham - FG 85%, 61.8 avg KO, 45 Touchbacks 8.8%

So while many of you are hyping Cundiff's kickoffs, his career average is .4 yards longer than Graham, while Graham has a better touchback percentage.

I think Cundiff has done a fine job, but when it comes down to it, Graham during the season has a better career FG % than Cundiff. The only knock on Graham, which is holding him back are his playoff kicks.
[/quote]

We can't risk it. He provided some good competition, and another test for Cundiff, but we're planning on the Ravens making a good postseason run. Mental things are hard to figure out, there's really no way to simulate the kind of pressure he's going to be under when he has to kick knowing that everyone is thinking "how will he kick now that he's under REAL pressure?" The fact that he shanked not one, but two FGs, and has done so in other high pressure situations, is enough to warrant going with the upside guy who has made improvements and doesn't seem to be phased by pressure.

[Quoth The Chaos]

My votes for Billy as well. I don't really want Cincy's leftovers (no offense to Shayne) and I think Cundiff has done better this offseason.
on kickoffs - Billy clearly has a consistently deeper kick
on fgs - Cundiff made 85% made of his fgs through camp to a 80% rate for Graham for portions open to the media - according to the paper (no source link)
So pretty much it is what it is. The career numbers are in Shaynes favor, but I think Billy is primed for a big year.
The FO will make the best choice in the end, I believe.

edit - ravensconvert beat me to the camp stat lol

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1283459956' post='462613']
You still can't discount the career numbers of these guys.

Billy Cundiff - FG 73%, 62.2 avg KO, 11 Touchbacks 5.2%
Shayne Graham - FG 85%, 61.8 avg KO, 45 Touchbacks 8.8%

So while many of you are hyping Cundiff's kickoffs, his career average is .4 yards longer than Graham, while Graham has a better touchback percentage.

I think Cundiff has done a fine job, but when it comes down to it, Graham during the season has a better career FG % than Cundiff. The only knock on Graham, which is holding him back are his playoff kicks.
[/quote]
Graham is also older by about 5 years I think. You can bring up career stats like FG% but then we could do the same thing for Matt Stover and say we should bring him back.

Fact is there is a reason the Bengals cut Graham and its because he missed too many critical kicks that cost them games, playoff games. Thats why Haushka didn't last long last season and thats why Graham SHOULDN'T be our kicker this year. However, I think thats probably who they'll go with.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Can you believe after all that mess Haushka made last season he was still picked up by 2 teams this offseason? (first raiders, then lions)

wth is with the demand of HAUSHKA??

[PuRock]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1283485274' post='463306']
We can't risk it. He provided some good competition, and another test for Cundiff, but we're planning on the Ravens making a good postseason run. Mental things are hard to figure out, there's really no way to simulate the kind of pressure he's going to be under when he has to kick knowing that everyone is thinking "how will he kick now that he's under REAL pressure?" The fact that he shanked not one, but two FGs, and has done so in other high pressure situations, is enough to warrant going with the upside guy who has made improvements and doesn't seem to be phased by pressure.
[/quote]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1283486191' post='463323']
Graham is also older by about 5 years I think. You can bring up career stats like FG% but then we could do the same thing for Matt Stover and say we should bring him back.

Fact is there is a reason the Bengals cut Graham and its because he missed too many critical kicks that cost them games, playoff games. Thats why Haushka didn't last long last season and thats why Graham SHOULDN'T be our kicker this year.
[/quote]

First off, he had one bad post season game. One game! He's only been in the post season for two games. His first post season game he nailed his FG. He's also made a lot of pressure kicks and game winners in the regular season. So I find it hard to consider his one "off" game against his mental makeup. I can name a lot of players who have had one bad playoff game, Flacco being one of them.

2nd off, Graham is 32 and Cundiff is 30. So Age doesn't really apply to this conversation. Then you talk about Stover and his career stats. He's 42! That's when I can play the age card. I bring up career stats because they're relevant. More so than one training camps worth of stats. Should we just disregard their career stats because Cundiff can make more kicks in TC? And kicking in Training Camp is fine and Dandy. But I would prefer to have a guy that has better accuracy during the regular season.

I'm not saying give the job to Cundiff or Graham. I like both Cundiff and Graham and I will be happy with whoever wins the job. I just dislike the unjust Graham bashing because of stretched perceptions.

It's also funny because if you say "yay Cundiff" you get a plus one automatically.

[PuRock]

Did I get a +1 because I said "Yay Cundiff!"

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1283491591' post='463382']
First off, he had one bad post season game. One game! He's only been in the post season for two games. His first post season game he nailed his FG. He's also made a lot of pressure kicks and game winners in the regular season. So I find it hard to consider his one "off" game against his mental makeup. I can name a lot of players who have had one bad playoff game, Flacco being one of them.
[/quote]

Why don't you go ask some Bengals fans whether or not Shayne Graham had more than one "bad" game? It doesn't have to be playoffs to be high pressure, how do you think he developed a reputation? From two playoff games, one bad one? No, he's missed plenty of pressure kicks in his career. There was one that would have won them a game against the Steelers and put them in the playoffs in 2006. Instead it went to overtime and they lost. AND his kickoffs are notoriously bad, I just don't want him over Cundiff.

[-Truth-]

Maybe it doesn't account for much, but Cundiff almost always kicked the ball inside the goal line.

[Romo Ravens]

Cundiff. But in reality, Graham did give him plenty of competition this offseason, and I think Billy has really stepped his game up because of it. I hope that the FO doesn't pick Graham, but the statistics speak for themselves, so they might make their decision based on what he's done in his career. All I know is that our ST won't even have to work up a sweat with Billy on kickoff duties.

Billy '11.

[MagicianCamille]

Cundiff deserves the job more. He came in last year while we were having a kicker crisis and made us feel better about our ability to score three points now and then. No reason he should lose his job the following year especially when he's doing as well as the competition in the preseason.

Cundiff all the way.

[Purple Nurple]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1283492850' post='463388']
Did I get a +1 because I said "Yay Cundiff!"
[/quote]

Go Graham!!! Cundiff is a scrub.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1283490849' post='463375']
Can you believe after all that mess Haushka made last season he was still picked up by 2 teams this offseason? (first raiders, then lions)

wth is with the demand of HAUSHKA??
[/quote]
I guess there aren't many young FA kickers? Idk...

I didn't know he'd been with the Raiders and Lions. I guess that's four teams in the last twelve months, then. (Ravens, Falcons)

[CorvusCorax]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1283452143' post='462556']
I think we will see a lot of FGs tonights. No going for it on 4th and short.

That's probably the most intriguing thing to watch is the kickers. The coaches have already made up their minds about all the other players (for the most part).
[/quote]

So much for this idea huh? LOL

LOL 3rd and 15 I can't get over that...

[cursona pirate]

Looks like Cundiff is winning the battle - fan wise!

Go cundiff. come on i want to make a signature of billy cundiff!

[robbcs3]

Graham didn't separate from Cundiff much. We should keep Cundiff because he was with us last year, and I'm pretty sure he has a smaller contract.