Nnamdi Asomugha

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282450811' post='456084']
I disagree
[/quote]
I would have never guessed .

[Shawn`]

Fact: Revis has 16 more contagious fire points than Nnamdi

[AwakenTheDemon]

I hear Contagious Fire is going to be a new attribute in Madden 12. Apparently, Revis has the most in the league with 98.

[BloodRaven]

The all new Contagious Fire attribute - Proudly sponsored by Preparation H

[Passepartout]

Rex Ryan talks trash. And expects his players to play trash as well.

[Reddawn36]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282245291' post='454346']
I see a bunch of Jets haters. Revis is better, I'd take him over Aso anyday. He does have a much greater impact on that defense than Aso has on the Raiders because Revis enables Rex to double team the opponents other receivers while he shuts down number 1 receivers single handedly week in and week out. He also enables Rex to put pressure (and a lot of it) on the opposing QB way more often than your average defense, making it extremely difficult to find even one open receiver downfield and deliver the ball.

Without Revis in there, Rex can't double team other receivers on the field, nor can he blitz nearly as often. He's not a product of Rex's scheme, the defensive scheme revolves entirely around him and it works. Without Aso, nothing changes on the Raiders d. The number 1 receiver gets double teamed and the number two and three receivers are open for a completion either way.

Who does more? Aso with safety help when he only gets one ball thrown at him a game, or Revis when he gets a lot more thrown at him a game with no help at all?
[/quote]
uhm...

I'm not saying Revis isn't talented... because he really is.. just not more so than Aso

Let me throw this idea out there (and if it's been said already oh well)

Revis has more help than Aso... even if Aso is getting backed up from a safety (which I'm highly doubting he is)

You can make the same case for Revis... who has much more highly talented safeties (or did). He also has help in which aso does not get much of from the raiders

He has a very consistant and very good pass rush... meaning Revis doesn't have to stick to someone all day... where Aso may have to sometimes... not to mention his(Revis) team is loaded at talent at CB's, meaning other QB's are forced to throw in his direction every once in a while (under pressure might I remind you).. meaning they are more prone to the mistake of a bad pass

Say what you will

but Aso is far better then Revis in my book

[Clutch Ravens]

Asomugha covers them tighter for longer. As was said before, Asomugha was thrown at 27 times while having to cover for longer while Revis was thrown against 111 times while having to cover the receiver for a shorter period 90% of the time.

Asomugha gets "help" 3 or 4 times a game. "Help" from, most likely, Michael Huff or Hiram Eugene. In my books that isn't really "help, infact, both of those players are more likely a hindrance than a help.

Asomugha has done it better, for longer, with a vastly inferior supporting cast.

Judging by Revis' contract impasse and the possible lockout we probably won't see him for another couple of years anyway.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1282285524' post='454649']
Did having a banged up Corey Ivy, Evan Oglesby, Frank Walker, Fabian Washington, and a banged-up Samari Rolle as our corners in 2008 stop Ryan from his exotic and frequent blitz schemes? Did having Corey Ivy (who started), an injured C-Mac (who played 8 games all year), Willie Gaston, Derrick Martin, David Pittman, Ronnie Prude and Jamaine Winborne stop Rex from using his exotic and frequent blitz schemes in 2007? Rex Ryan will use his blitzes and unique schemes regardless of who's back in the secondary and [b]if it gives up the big pass play, so be it.[/b][/quote]
Yeah that's the difference. With Revis on the back end, the Jets do not give up any big pass plays because Revis enables the safeties to focus more on stopping other WRs on the field while Revis handles the #1.

Without Revis on the back end, you must get to the QB or else you WILL give up a big pass play because more receivers will be open.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Reddawn36' timestamp='1282562750' post='456614']
uhm...

I'm not saying Revis isn't talented... because he really is.. just not more so than Aso

Let me throw this idea out there (and if it's been said already oh well)

Revis has more help than Aso... even if Aso is getting backed up from a safety (which I'm highly doubting he is)

You can make the same case for Revis... who has much more highly talented safeties (or did). He also has help in which aso does not get much of from the raiders

[b]He has a very consistant and very good pass rush... meaning Revis doesn't have to stick to someone all day... where Aso may have to sometimes... not to mention his(Revis) team is loaded at talent at CB's, meaning other QB's are forced to throw in his direction every once in a while (under pressure might I remind you).. meaning they are more prone to the mistake of a bad pass[/b]Say what you will

but Aso is far better then Revis in my book
[/quote]
Yeah but like I said, there are some exceptions. The Jets pass rush isn't brilliant every single play while the Raiders pass rush isn't ineffective every single play. As I said before, both players have proven at some point in their careers that they can be outstanding with and without a supporting cast playing well.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282973086' post='458909']
Yeah but like I said, there are some exceptions. The Jets pass rush isn't brilliant every single play while the Raiders pass rush isn't ineffective every single play. As I said before, both players have proven at some point in their careers that they can be outstanding with and without a supporting cast playing well.
[/quote]

Saying there are variables in plays is like going around telling everyone the sky is blue. The law of averages says that Revis gets more help than Aso. A lot more help. PERIOD.

Revis is a better ballhawk than Aso, and that is how you would argue Revis is the better overall corner.

[darklight1216]

Did he really say "All you do is [i]cover receivers[/i]?" (paraphrase)

I mean, really?

I am a huge fan of Nnamdi. He's excellent on the field and classy off of it. He's at the top of my I-wish-he-were-a-Raven list (except for a certain qb).

[Reddawn36]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1282998514' post='458957']
Saying there are variables in plays is like going around telling everyone the sky is blue. The law of averages says that Revis gets more help than Aso. A lot more help. PERIOD.

Revis is a better ballhawk than Aso, and that is how you would argue Revis is the better overall corner.
[/quote]
this lol

except for... how would anyone really know who the better ball hawk is... it's hard to get interceptions when balls aren't thrown your way

[Clutch Ravens]

I honestly thought Nnamdi was going to get up out of his seat and hit Skip Bayless in the mouth.

I have never seen such a cocky, idiotic buffoon in all my days trying to convince one of the best Players in the NFL that he isn't that great. Skip knows nothing about football - how he has any sort of job is beyond me.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='Reddawn36' timestamp='1283006959' post='458987']
this lol

except for... how would anyone really know who the better ball hawk is... it's hard to get interceptions when balls aren't thrown your way
[/quote]

Even with so few passes thrown his way you can see that Aso plays the man and doesn't attack the ball, but there is a high risk as you will see with a corner like Asante Samuel, he makes plays on the ball but will often blow his coverages. Revis can both make plays on the ball and hold tight coverage... except against little Teddy Ginn

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Reddawn36' timestamp='1283006959' post='458987']
this lol

except for... [b]how would anyone really know who the better ball hawk is... it's hard to get interceptions when balls aren't thrown your way[/b][/quote]
Well here's how I can use those stats ATD brought up earlier to support Revis.

Revis was targeted 111 times in 09 and had 31 pass defenses. That means he defended a pass .279% of the time someone threw at him. Aso on the other hand was targeted 27 times in 09 and had 4 pass defenses. That means he defended a pass only .148% of the time someone threw at him.

Also, Revis had 5 interceptions last year in those 111 times he was targeted (not including the play in the panthers game where it bounced off someones heel and Revis got a pick 6), while Aso got 1 interception in those 27 times he was targeted.

5/111 means that Revis got a pick .045% of the time someone threw his way, which is greater than Asomugha's .037%. (1/27)

Not to mention, Revis had 3 pass defenses and 2 interceptions in the three postseason games the Jets played. And I guarantee you he was targeted less than 27 times in those three games.

Looks like ATD forgot to mention this.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Give it to Clutch Clayton' timestamp='1283010101' post='458995']
I honestly thought Nnamdi was going to get up out of his seat and hit Skip Bayless in the mouth.

[b]I have never seen such a cocky, idiotic buffoon in all my days trying to convince one of the best Players in the NFL that he isn't that great. Skip knows nothing about football - how he has any sort of job is beyond me.[/b][/quote]
Why so critical is beyond me.

[MKdave]

Many of you seem to be forgetting that the last time Asomugha was thrown at in bulk, he registered a league leading 8 picks. He has ball hawk skills, just no opportunity to showcase them.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='MKdave' timestamp='1283018426' post='459033']
Many of you seem to be forgetting that the last time Asomugha was thrown at in bulk, he registered a league leading 8 picks. He has ball hawk skills, just no opportunity to showcase them.
[/quote]
That was four years ago which in my book at least is outdated. He was in his mid 20s then and is 29 now.

[MKdave]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1283024187' post='459053']
That was four years ago which in my book at least is outdated. He was in his mid 20s then and is 29 now.
[/quote]

Ball skills allude a player long after athleticism has faded. He couldn't be the shutdown corner he is today if he had faded that much. As I said, the last time he was thrown at consistently he proved he could make plays on the ball. I think that's a sounder argument than 'he's 29 now so he obvious can't pick off passes'. He's a corner not a running back.

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

Lol I cannot stand Skip Bayless. He is so ignorant. Kudos for Aso staying calm. He was clearly trying to downplay his ability in a disrespectful manner. All he had to say was I think Revis is overall the better player. Let's get real though, if Revis WAS EVER better than him it would be by a very small margin. Skip was trying to make it seem like Revis is just flat out better.

Seriously, this guy RARELY gets thrown to a game. He is the complete definition of a shutdown corner. To compare a guy who is on the number one defense and one who shuts down a whole half of the field with little to no help shows who is the better player.

Asomugha>Revis

Plan and simple.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='MKdave' timestamp='1283030433' post='459065']
Ball skills allude a player long after athleticism has faded. He couldn't be the shutdown corner he is today if he had faded that much. As I said, the last time he was thrown at consistently he proved he could make plays on the ball. I think that's a sounder argument than 'he's 29 now so he obvious can't pick off passes'. He's a corner not a running back.
[/quote]
It's not that he can't pick off passes.

[SnOoPy]

Skip Bayless shouldn't even be on TV.
I would like to see Revis in Oakland and see what he can do over there!

Asomugha > Revis

[berad]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1283015568' post='459021']
Well here's how I can use those stats ATD brought up earlier to support Revis.

Revis was targeted 111 times in 09 and had 31 pass defenses. That means he defended a pass .279% of the time someone threw at him. Aso on the other hand was targeted 27 times in 09 and had 4 pass defenses. That means he defended a pass only .148% of the time someone threw at him.

Also, Revis had 5 interceptions last year in those 111 times he was targeted (not including the play in the panthers game where it bounced off someones heel and Revis got a pick 6), while Aso got 1 interception in those 27 times he was targeted.

5/111 means that Revis got a pick .045% of the time someone threw his way, which is greater than Asomugha's .037%. (1/27)

Not to mention, Revis had 3 pass defenses and 2 interceptions in the three postseason games the Jets played. And I guarantee you he was targeted less than 27 times in those three games.

Looks like ATD forgot to mention this.
[/quote]

Take any basic statistics class and you'll understand why comparing a large sample to a small one is misleading. Revis was thrown at more than four times the amount that Asomugha was..

[RavensAllTheWay]

Well if you guys really think that teams throw less to Aso is a good argument, then please consider this.

Teams don't want to throw his way, so instead of relying heavily on the passing game against the Raiders defense, they run the ball and it WORKS. So they keep doing it and Aso doesn't have as many passes or receivers to cover as Revis. But for Revis, teams don't want to throw to him, so they try running the ball on the Jets defense, which DOESN'T work. So they can't rely on the running game nearly as much against the Jets defense as when against he Raiders defense, which means they are forced to throw the ball more. Which clearly means that Revis will have more passes to defense against. It's just the way it works out.

I know it doesn't matter WHY teams throw more to Revis, but he still has more passes to defend against and has to cover a receiver more often than Aso. So telling me that teams fear Aso more than Revis is a really really bad argument.

[berad]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1283096078' post='459926']
Well if you guys really think that teams throw less to Aso is a good argument, then please consider this.

Teams don't want to throw his way, so instead of relying heavily on the passing game against the Raiders defense, they run the ball and it WORKS. So they keep doing it and Aso doesn't have as many passes or receivers to cover as Revis. But for Revis, teams don't want to throw to him, so they try running the ball on the Jets defense, which DOESN'T work. So they can't rely on the running game nearly as much against the Jets defense as when against he Raiders defense, which means they are forced to throw the ball more. Which clearly means that Revis will have more passes to defense against. It's just the way it works out.

I know it doesn't matter WHY teams throw more to Revis, but he still has more passes to defend against and has to cover a receiver more often than Aso. So telling me that teams fear Aso more than Revis is a really really bad argument.
[/quote]

Okay, using your argument with real numbers, Asomugha still wins out.

You're right, the Raiders were run on more than any other team last season (548 times) and passed on the least of any team (438 times). The Jets, by comparison, were in the relative middle of the pack for both with 420 runs and 501 passes against.

Since you've used percentages before, let's do it again:

[color="#006400"]Revis: 111 passes / 501 total passes = [b]22.2%[/b][/color]

[color="#696969"]Asomugha: 27 passes / 438 total passes = [b]6.2%[/b]
[/color]
It's obvious who wins that matchup. Asomugha was targeted a lower percentage of the time because he is a better cornerback!

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1283102627' post='459974']
Okay, using your argument with real numbers, Asomugha still wins out.

You're right, the Raiders were run on more than any other team last season (548 times) and passed on the least of any team (438 times). The Jets, by comparison, were in the relative middle of the pack for both with 420 runs and 501 passes against.

Since you've used percentages before, let's do it again:

[color="#006400"]Revis: 111 passes / 501 total passes = [b]22.2%[/b][/color]

[color="#696969"]Asomugha: 27 passes / 438 total passes = [b]6.2%[/b]
[/color]
It's obvious who wins that matchup. Asomugha was targeted a lower percentage of the time because he is a better cornerback!
[/quote]

That, sir, has just killed the argument and, hopefully, Skip Bayless' broadcasting "career".

[Reddawn36]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1283096078' post='459926']
Well if you guys really think that teams throw less to Aso is a good argument, then please consider this.

Teams don't want to throw his way, so instead of relying heavily on the passing game against the Raiders defense, they run the ball and it WORKS. So they keep doing it and Aso doesn't have as many passes or receivers to cover as Revis. But for Revis, teams don't want to throw to him, so they try running the ball on the Jets defense, which DOESN'T work. So they can't rely on the running game nearly as much against the Jets defense as when against he Raiders defense, which means they are forced to throw the ball more. [b]Which clearly means that Revis will have more passes to defense against[/b]. It's just the way it works out.

I know it doesn't matter WHY teams throw more to Revis, but he still has more passes to defend against and has to cover a receiver more often than Aso. So telling me that teams fear Aso more than Revis is a really really bad argument.
[/quote]
that was actually a good argument, up until that bolded part

just because a team is throwing more times... doesn't mean they are only throwing @ Revis... the fact that ppl consider targeting Revis should tell you that he isn't as good as Aso (Revis is 2nd best Corner in the NFL today)

and the fact that more teams run on the Raiders could speak more towards Aso's skill as well as the Raiders vulnerability ... the best way to avoid interceptions.. is to not throw the ball

[benravens1]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1282218357' post='454103']
Revis is a product of Rex Ryans scheme, the New York Spin Machine and Bean Baggers. Aso shuts down a side because people DONT throw at him. Revis does not have that YET.
[/quote]

couldn't agree more. like nnamdi says in the interview he has 1 ball thrown at him a game revis will have a few more just because the jets defense has more exotic blitzes so QBs get rid of the ball quickly.

put revis on the raiders and nnamdi on the jets and i reckon nnamdi would have a shot at double digit INTs

[benravens1]

also what is contagious fire? thats such a rediculous thing to measure ability on.

pretty much all of the other 10 guys on the jets D are better than the other 10 raiders and nnamdi doesn't get many opportunities to 'inspire' his teammates simply because of the amount of times the ball is near him

[RavensAllTheWay]

Now you guys are just repeating yourselves and each other, not bringing up anything I haven't already found a suitable argument against.