Nnamdi Asomugha

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1282323574' post='454811']
Yes those highlights paint the whole picture. Never mind how badly the D ranks over the season because those videos say it all.


Edit:

Location: Sarcasmville
Status: Mayor
[/quote]
I didn't even say it tells the whole story and it isn't implied either.

But my point is, it's not just Revis who gets help from the supporting cast. Nnamdi gets it too, even if it isn't as much. I've seen plays where the Jets fail to get enough pressure up front, yet Revis still makes a play on the ball or shuts someone down when it's thrown his way. And I've also seen plays where the rest of the Raiders D gets a sack or makes a play without Aso having to do much. People keep bringing up the opposite of that, and I'm just acknowledging the fact that there are some exceptions, like the ones in the videos.

We've seen at least a little bit of everything. Even though Aso having to cover a receiver longer than Revis TYPICALLY happens, there have been times where Revis has had to cover longer than Aso.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282327133' post='454837']
I didn't even say it tells the whole story and it isn't implied either.

But my point is, it's not just Revis who gets help from the supporting cast. Nnamdi gets it too, even if it isn't as much. [b]I've seen plays where the Jets fail to get enough pressure up front, yet Revis still makes a play on the ball or shuts someone down when it's thrown his way. And I've also seen plays where the rest of the Raiders D gets a sack or makes a play without Aso having to do much.[/b] People keep bringing up the opposite of that, and I'm just acknowledging the fact that there are some exceptions, like the ones in the videos.

We've seen at least a little bit of everything. Even though Aso having to cover a receiver longer than Revis TYPICALLY happens, there have been times where Revis has had to cover longer than Aso.
[/quote]

No one said Asomugha doesn't get any help, the man himself even said he gets help. However, it's very rare that he does get assistance. Both men are capable of playing without any help.

As for the bold part, everything you said about Revis applies to Asomugha, and vice versa. Asomugha has shut down many, many receivers when the Raiders defense doesn't get enough pressure on the quarterback. There have also been times when the Jets defense gets a sack or pressures a poor throw and Revis doesn't have to do much. What you cannot forget is that Revis is backed up by the #1 defense in the league and a very, very good front seven. Therefore, he'll see better pressure from his front seven more often than Nnamdi will with his.

Lastly, I don't understand why you threw in that last paragraph. You said that there are times Aso has to cover a man longer than Revis, but there are also times Revis has to cover longer than Asomugha. Well, of course. That's like saying "Well, Asomugha runs faster than Revis, but sometimes Revis runs faster than Asomugha".

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1282288259' post='454677']
Think about this. Jets are the #1 ranked defense. Raiders are no where NEAR that. The Jets had a great pass rush and pass D in general, the Raiders don't. The Jets are literally better at every single position on D than the Raiders besides Cornerback.

Nmadi covers his receivers with much less of a pass rush than Revis has and since he has no offense he has to play more defense than the Jets do.

[b]Like previously said, it is arguable, but I will take Nmadi just because he has produced his results without a steller defense around him unlike Revis. [/b]And as for the video, loved Nmadi and it was pretty hilarious, Nmadi was on fire. And you know Skip, when you play with fire, you get BURNED
[/quote]
Thanks for reiterating that. That was a major point I was trying to make last night.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1282315413' post='454739']
I still believe in Armanti Edwards! I just have to pray that Matt Moore, Jimmy Clausen, and Tony Pike [i]all[/i] somehow fail!
[/quote]
Haha...there's nothing wrong with keeping the faith.

[DrMoonTooth]

What was the point of showing us Raiders highlights? I guess based on those videos, the Raiders look like a trendy Super Bowl, right ?

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1282329827' post='454868']
No one said Asomugha doesn't get any help, the man himself even said he gets help. However, it's very rare that he does get assistance. Both men are capable of playing without any help.

As for the bold part, everything you said about Revis applies to Asomugha, and vice versa. Asomugha has shut down many, many receivers when the Raiders defense doesn't get enough pressure on the quarterback. There have also been times when the Jets defense gets a sack or pressures a poor throw and Revis doesn't have to do much. What you cannot forget is that Revis is backed up by the #1 defense in the league and a very, very good front seven. Therefore, he'll see better pressure from his front seven more often than Nnamdi will with his.

Lastly, I don't understand why you threw in that last paragraph. You said that there are times Aso has to cover a man longer than Revis, but there are also times Revis has to cover longer than Asomugha. Well, of course. That's like saying "Well, Asomugha runs faster than Revis, but sometimes Revis runs faster than Asomugha".
[/quote]
My point exactly... I'm just saying it's not ALWAYS easier for Revis.

[DrMoonTooth]

I'm sensing a poll is in order, Purple Punishment.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1282335537' post='454931']
What was the point of showing us Raiders highlights? I guess based on those videos, the Raiders look like a trendy Super Bowl, right ?
[/quote]
Well for one, they aren't a trendy Super Bowl lol. And two, I just wanted to compare the Jets defense to the Raiders defense a little. I knows as well as you guys that the Jets defense is way better than the Raiders defense and Revis has a better supporting cast around him than Aso. HOWEVER, I'm just showing them to prove that Aso has received help from a good supporting cast also, it's not like he made that defense entirely on his own. Just like Revis.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1282335625' post='454934']
I'm sensing a poll is in order, Purple Punishment.
[/quote]
Yeah but it'll be pretty lobsided

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282336262' post='454939']
Well for one, they aren't a trendy Super Bowl lol. And two, I just wanted to compare the Jets defense to the Raiders defense a little. I knows as well as you guys that the Jets defense is way better than the Raiders defense and Revis has a better supporting cast around him than Aso. HOWEVER, I'm just showing them to prove that Aso has received help from a good supporting cast also, it's not like he made that defense entirely on his own. Just like Revis.
[/quote]
That was my point. Of course they aren't a trendy Super Bowl pick, but one with little knowledge of NFL teams could be convinced otherwise based on ANY team's highlight reel. Point being that those highlights don't mean much to me. The Raiders' D still can't hold a candle to the Jets' D.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282336384' post='454944']
Yeah but it'll be pretty lobsided
[/quote]
It might not be as lopsided as you would think. It all depends on if the voters read this thread or not. To be honest, I would have said Revis was better until I watched his sit-down with Skip Bayless. Then the opposite hit me like a freight train .

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1282335625' post='454934']
I'm sensing a poll is in order, Purple Punishment.
[/quote]
I think the thread is better without a poll since the debate is just being argued so well from both sides, IMO. The poll would definitely be lopsided one way or the other, and that might detract from the arguments being made since people will glance at the votes and not bother to read the thread.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1282337228' post='454951']
I think the thread is better without a poll since the debate is just being argued so well from both sides, IMO. The poll would definitely be lopsided one way or the other, and that might detract from the arguments being made since people will glance at the votes and not bother to read the thread.
[/quote]
Eh, I had the same thought...good point.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1282273197' post='454579']
Really 99% of the football world didn't know him? Thats shocking to me.....

The guy has talent and would fit in any defensive system on any team. Rex Ryan is a great coach but he is not the reason Revis is a pro bowler.
[/quote]
Revis was not in the conversation as best corner in the NFL in 2008 however...I think that was what he tried to say. And Aso has been for about the past 5 seasons.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282327133' post='454837']
I didn't even say it tells the whole story and it isn't implied either.

But my point is, it's not just Revis who gets help from the supporting cast. Nnamdi gets it too, even if it isn't as much. I've seen plays where the Jets fail to get enough pressure up front, yet Revis still makes a play on the ball or shuts someone down when it's thrown his way. And I've also seen plays where the rest of the Raiders D gets a sack or makes a play without Aso having to do much. People keep bringing up the opposite of that, and I'm just acknowledging the fact that there are some exceptions, like the ones in the videos.

We've seen at least a little bit of everything. Even though Aso having to cover a receiver longer than Revis TYPICALLY happens, there have been times where Revis has had to cover longer than Aso.
[/quote]

Well stating that you have no doubt in your mind that he gets help when all corners get help at some point seems trivial. Selectively showing two highlights videos to support your bias skews the argument out of the context of the discussion.

All corners get helped, but you can't tell me a corner on a hard blitzing number 1 defense has to cover for as long as a corner on an average 4 man rushing defense. An average pass rush and pure man-to-man coverage is a corners worst nightmare yet Aso excels at it and has done it consistently for years.

[Ed_Reed20]

One major difference I've noticed between Nnamdi and Revis is that Asomugha blankets a WR with positioning and great footwork as opposed to Revis who almost always has his hands on a WR.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1282359050' post='455119']
One major difference I've noticed between Nnamdi and Revis is that Asomugha blankets a WR with positioning and great footwork as opposed to Revis who almost always has his hands on a WR.
[/quote]
With all due respect to Revis, no one in the league today touches Asomugha in terms of technique.

[XxSizzleXx]

Revis is a lot stronger than he looks which allows him to usually play with a hand on a receiver.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1282359284' post='455123']
With all due respect to Revis, no one in the league today touches Asomugha in terms of technique.
[/quote]

Agreed. He takes his craft very seriously and is a great example for other DBs. Look at Cromartie. All the talent in the world but he'll never be as a good a CB as Asomugha.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' timestamp='1282359584' post='455124']
Revis is a lot stronger than he looks which allows him to usually play with a hand on a receiver.
[/quote]

I agree that he's strong but I know he'd get called for some of the chucks, pulls and tugs he does if his name was Frank Walker.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1282357680' post='455107']
Well stating that you have no doubt in your mind that he gets help when all corners get help at some point seems trivial. Selectively showing two highlights videos to support your bias skews the argument out of the context of the discussion.

All corners get helped, but you can't tell me a corner on a hard blitzing number 1 defense has to cover for as long as a corner on an average 4 man rushing defense. An average pass rush and pure man-to-man coverage is a corners worst nightmare yet Aso excels at it and has done it consistently for years.
[/quote]
Sometimes the Jets pass rush is slowed down, and sometimes (like in those videos), the Raiders pass rush is brilliant. THAT is my point. Just because Revis hasn't been through the "worst nightmare" as much as Aso doesn't mean he hasn't been through it. He has been through it and he's done well in it.

I'm not at all skewing the argument with these two videos. I'm using them to support my point, and the point being that Aso has had the same type of help that Revis had last season, just not as much of it. I know hightlights and stats don't tell the whole story. However, how is it that when Revis gets help from his supporting cast, it weakens an argument for him, but when Aso gets help from his supporting cast, it [i]doesn't[/i] weaken an argument for him? Both CBs have proven that they each can play exceptionally well regardless of the rest of the defense.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1282359050' post='455119']
One major difference I've noticed between Nnamdi and Revis is that Asomugha blankets a WR with positioning and great footwork as opposed to [b]Revis who almost always has his hands on a WR.[/b][/quote]
But he still plays within the rules. Doesn't matter how you blanket a receiver as long as it's fair.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282360088' post='455129']
But he still plays within the rules. Doesn't matter how you blanket a receiver as long as it's fair
[/quote]

I'm not saying he doesn't play within the rules, just that he doesn't get called for things I think some others corners are.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282359891' post='455128']
Sometimes the Jets pass rush is slowed down, and sometimes (like in those videos), the Raiders pass rush is brilliant. THAT is my point. Just because Revis hasn't been through the "worst nightmare" as much as Aso doesn't mean he hasn't been through it. He has been through it and he's done well in it.

I'm not at all skewing the argument with these two videos. I'm using them to support my point, and the point being that Aso has had the same type of help that Revis had last season, just not as much of it. I know hightlights and stats don't tell the whole story. [b]However, how is it that when Revis gets help from his supporting cast, it weakens an argument for him, but when Aso gets help from his supporting cast, it [i]doesn't[/i] weaken an argument for him?[/b] Both CBs have proven that they each can play exceptionally well regardless of the rest of the defense.
[/quote]
Because the amount of help can't be compared. There is a massive difference between the Jets D and the Raiders D...we've been over this. The argument gets weakened for Revis because the quality of his said "help" is so much better than Asomugha's.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1282365099' post='455166']
Because the amount of help can't be compared. There is a massive difference between the Jets D and the Raiders D...we've been over this. The argument gets weakened for Revis because the quality of his said "help" is so much better than Asomugha's.
[/quote]
Even still....can't take away the fact that both players have done extremely well with and without help, and there were tons of plays in those videos that showed the Raiders D all over people, just like the Jets D.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282366523' post='455173']
Even still....can't take away the fact that both players have done extremely well with and without help, and there were tons of plays in those videos that showed the Raiders D all over people, just like the Jets D.
[/quote]
True, but of course the video is going to show that...it is a highlight reel, after all. What it doesn't show is how much longer on average Nnamdi has to cover a receiver as opposed to Revis. With the big gap in defensive pressure, I guarantee you Asomugha has to cover his man longer. Keeping that in mind with the stats ATD posted earlier make Nnamdi all the more impressive.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282366523' post='455173']
Even still....can't take away the fact that both players have done extremely well with and without help, and there were tons of plays in those videos that showed the Raiders D all over people, just like the Jets D.
[/quote]

Now I get what you're saying, both have help over the top at times. But I don't think anybody agrees that a highlight package of a low-mid tier defense makes them "just like the Jets D" when defensive rankings say they don't. The Raiders pass D gave up the second highest amount of big pass plays last year despite having a corner who completely blankets his man. That's not a lot of help.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1282366966' post='455176']
True, but of course the video is going to show that...it is a highlight reel, after all. What it doesn't show is how much longer on average Nnamdi has to cover a receiver as opposed to Revis. With the big gap in defensive pressure, I guarantee you Asomugha has to cover his man longer. Keeping that in mind with the stats ATD posted earlier make Nnamdi all the more impressive.
[/quote]
Right, but we all know Aso has to cover his man longer MOST of the time. Just not all the time.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282403972' post='455240']
Right, but we all know Aso has to cover his man longer MOST of the time. Just not all the time.
[/quote]
Yes, but "most" is more than enough to further strengthen an argument for Asomugha.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1282446280' post='456033']
Yes, but "most" is more than enough to further strengthen an argument for Asomugha.
[/quote]
I disagree