Nnamdi Asomugha

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282284094' post='454642']
No, Revis helps make all that happen. I explained a bunch of times earlier how Revis is the one that enables his defense to be better. [b]Rex wouldn't blitz as much if he wasn't sure that his secondary could handle things the way they did all of last season. [/b] And the reason #2 and 3 receivers don't have success against the Jets is because Revis is so good at shutting down #1s by himself that it allows for the rest of the secondary to secure things elsewhere.
[/quote]

Did having a banged up Corey Ivy, Evan Oglesby, Frank Walker, Fabian Washington, and a banged-up Samari Rolle as our corners in 2008 stop Ryan from his exotic and frequent blitz schemes? Did having Corey Ivy (who started), an injured C-Mac (who played 8 games all year), Willie Gaston, Derrick Martin, David Pittman, Ronnie Prude and Jamaine Winborne stop Rex from using his exotic and frequent blitz schemes in 2007? Rex Ryan will use his blitzes and unique schemes regardless of who's back in the secondary and if it gives up the big pass play, so be it.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1282284542' post='454645']
Okay... so what you're telling me that by successfully, single-handedly, shutting down one side of the field doesn't make the entire defense better? Aso's ability doesn't turn the entire defense into an elite unit, but it [i]does[/i] make the defense better.

Saying Aso's reputation is over-rated is absurd and ridiculous. You tell me one other cornerback that quarterbacks straight up refuse to throw to like they do Aso. If Aso was thrown to a hundred times (111 to be exact from last year) a year like Revis and he'd walk away with 30 plus deflections and and double digit picks.

And the fact that teams test Revis (111 times in 2009) so much more than Aso (27 times in 2009), to me, speaks volumes to Revis' reputation in comparison to Aso's. I mean, c'mon, Revis has been thrown at more in one season than Aso's been in three season (85 times) with room to spare.
[/quote]
See, I don't understand this post at all really.

You saw me explain the fact that throwing to Revis is so stupid, more stupid than throwing it to Aso. It doesn't matter if Revis isn't as feared. He'll just make any QB he goes against pay for taking a chance they wouldn't take against Aso. Anyone who thinks they can successfully throw against Revis and not successfully throw against Aso has absolutely no idea what they're doing. So if anything, Revis is underrated.

And I already said that Aso isn't overrated in terms of how good he is at playing CB, but saying he's better than Revis is inaccurate.

And about what you said in the last sentence of your second paragraph...That is exactly what I'm talking about. You don't know it for a fact if it hasn't happened, and neither do I, which is why I used, "maybe, maybe not" in my earlier argument.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282284641' post='454647']
Yeah and to say the Jets D makes Revis better only strenghens an argument for Revis, doesn't it.
[/quote]
NO! Because if you take away the defenses from both guys, you're left with a just as successful Asomugha and not as successful Revis. We're talking about the players, not the defenses. How does that not make sense???

This argument is growing more pointless by the minute. I'm going to bed.

Edit: .

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282284641' post='454647']
Yeah and to say the Jets D makes Revis better only strenghens an argument for Revis, doesn't it.
[/quote]

Actually no it does not. Because Asomugha doesn't need the rest of the defense to "make him better". On the contrary, he makes the rest of the defense better. So the logic that because the rest of the Jets' defense (the number one defense in the league) makes Revis look better fails in an argument that Revis is better. Especially when Asomugha makes the 26th ranked Raiders defense better.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1282285772' post='454652']
[b]Actually no it does not. Because Asomugha doesn't need the rest of the defense to "make him better". [/b]On the contrary, he makes the rest of the defense better. So the logic that because the rest of the Jets' defense (the number one defense in the league) makes Revis look better fails in an argument that Revis is better. Especially when Asomugha makes the 26th ranked Raiders defense better.
[/quote]
Thank you! It's good to know I'm not going crazy.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282284641' post='454647']
Yeah and to say the Jets D makes Revis better only strenghens an argument for Revis, doesn't it.
[/quote]
lol yeah I was actually afraid to post this because I saw the argument against it that you guys exposed Just said it for the sake of debate.

But I stand by everything else I said.

[RavensAllTheWay]

One more thing, I don't think Revis needs the rest of his D to make him better. I've said before that he still shuts #1s down SINGLE HANDEDLY.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282286326' post='454656']
One more thing, I don't think Revis needs the rest of his D to make him better. I've said before that he still shuts #1s down SINGLE HANDEDLY.
[/quote]
But the problem is we can't measure how much of Revis' success is Revis and how much of it is the pressure from the rest of the defense. Neither Revis nor Asomugha shuts down WRs single-handedly...they both get help from the pass rush, but Revis [b]WAY[/b] more so than Nnamdi. That aspect just simply isn't debatable.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282285557' post='454650']
See, I don't understand this post at all really.

You saw me explain the fact that throwing to Revis is so stupid, more stupid than throwing it to Aso. It doesn't matter if Revis isn't as feared. He'll just make any QB he goes against pay for taking a chance they wouldn't take against Aso. Anyone who thinks they can successfully throw against Revis and not successfully throw against Aso has absolutely no idea what they're doing. So if anything, Revis is underrated.

And I already said that Aso isn't overrated in terms of how good he is at playing CB, but saying he's better than Revis is inaccurate.

And about what you said in the last sentence of your second paragraph...That is exactly what I'm talking about. You don't know it for a fact if it hasn't happened, and neither do I, which is why I used, "maybe, maybe not" in my earlier argument.
[/quote]

There is no "maybe, maybe not" in that last sentence. I flat out stated that Asomugha was thrown to 85 times in three seasons, while Revis was thrown at 111 times in ONE season. There is no maybe, maybe not in that sentence.

You want to go out and say my post makes no setence, yet you're the one saying that Revis, who is in the argument as being the best, BEST, cornerback in the league, is under-rated. Get real, man.

However, I am through debating this with you. The fact of the matter is you cannot go wrong with either cornerback. You believe Revis is better, that's your decision to make. However, I've backed my argument up with numbers, not just saying how I feel. Like I've said, the fact that 13 teams are willing to collectively test Revis 111 times in one year, while 13 teams are collectively only willing to test Aso 30 times in one year speaks absolutely [b]volumes[/b] to Aso's ability.

I'll leave with this:
Bill Bilichick stated in 2008 that Asomugha was "as complete a cornerback as [he] has seen all year long".

In 2009, Gary Kubiak said "Asomugha is the best corner I've seen in a while throughout this league. He's big, he's fast, they put him out there on an island the whole game. He's an exceptional player."

Also in 2009, Rob Ryan (Browns Defensive Coordinator) stated "The guy is truly unbelievable. He made himself the best corner in football by his work ethic, the way he studies tape, and he's so smart."

And that's only the very tip of the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the praise Asomugha has garnered in his career.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1282286326' post='454656']
One more thing, I don't think Revis needs the rest of his D to make him better. I've said before that he still shuts #1s down SINGLE HANDEDLY.
[/quote]

And you're insinuating that Asomugha can't? Aso can and has shut down number ones by himself. Like he said himself, he'll be lucky if he gets help four times in one game, that's like getting help once a quarter. Also like he's said, the Raiders run a lot of man-to-man defense, probably more than the Jets run (especially with Ryan at the helm). Aso has the ability to cover and shut out a receiver, whether it's the team's number one or number two.

On a related note, this year Aso won't be "stuck" to one side of the field for the most part this year. The Raiders will be having Aso line-up across from the opposing team's number one every down.

[DrMoonTooth]

I shall check back on this thread later when it isn't 3 am .

[Purple Nurple]

Its not 3 am. Check back now.

[theFRANCHISE]

I have to say, this is one of the more interesting debates I've seen here in awhile. Keep it going!

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' timestamp='1282287311' post='454666']
Its not 3 am. Check back now.
[/quote]
It will be in 1 minute Nurps. I need my beauty sleep. I'm ugly enough with it.

All sillyness aside, it's almost 3 am, and I'm sure ATD or someone else will hold down the fort while I sleep. It is a very formidable fort.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1282287372' post='454668']
I have to say, this is one of the more interesting debates I've seen here in awhile. Keep it going!
[/quote]
One last thing! (and I know it's off topic, but I can't contain myself)...

...Franny, It think it's safe to say Jake Locker is your best bet as the next great dual-threat QB at this point .

[AwakenTheDemon]

Truth be told, you can (obviously) make a case for either man being the "best" cornerback in the league. I also won't deny that it's silly to throw towards Revis. However, teams are apparently more comfortable throwing towards Revis then they are throwing towards Asomugha. When you factor that in, that's an entire side of the field you don't really have to worry about when Nnamdi is on the field. Revis doesn't give you that sort of "ease of mind". You still have to concern yourself with the entire field, even though Revis will hold down his fort extremely well. The Raiders may have been 26th in overall defense, however they were 7th against the pass. Teams only attempted 27.4 passes per game against the Raiders last season, that's the best in the league (the Jets were 7th with 31.3). You have to believe that Asomugha had a [i]huge[/i] hand in that.

[ed.s52]

Think about this. Jets are the #1 ranked defense. Raiders are no where NEAR that. The Jets had a great pass rush and pass D in general, the Raiders don't. The Jets are literally better at every single position on D than the Raiders besides Cornerback.

Nmadi covers his receivers with much less of a pass rush than Revis has and since he has no offense he has to play more defense than the Jets do.

Like previously said, it is arguable, but I will take Nmadi just because he has produced his results without a steller defense around him unlike Revis.

And as for the video, loved Nmadi and it was pretty hilarious, Nmadi was on fire. And you know Skip, when you play with fire, you get BURNED

[Purple Nurple]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1282287577' post='454671']
All sillyness aside, it's almost 3 am, and I'm sure ATD or someone else will hold down the fort while I sleep. It is a very formidable fort.
[/quote]

Sillyness makes the world revolve.....My head will hit a pillow any moment now......Refer to ATD's sig quote. He's a machine, jerk.

[lowrider]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1282288259' post='454677']
Think about this. Jets are the #1 ranked defense. Raiders are no where NEAR that. The Jets had a great pass rush and pass D in general, the Raiders don't. The Jets are literally better at every single position on D than the Raiders besides Cornerback.

Nmadi covers his receivers with much less of a pass rush than Revis has and since he has no offense he has to play more defense than the Jets do.

Like previously said, it is arguable, but I will take Nmadi just because he has produced his results without a steller defense around him unlike Revis.

And as for the video, loved Nmadi and it was pretty hilarious, Nmadi was on fire. And you know Skip, when you play with fire, you get BURNED
[/quote]
Thats such a good point. I didn't think about that. He has to keep his coverage on his WR longer than Revis has to. The only thing I'm going to correct you on is you spelled Nnamdi wrong. I gave up on spelling his name, I just say Aso now. His name honestly sounds like his mother lost in scrabble one day and she was left with the letter N-N-A-M-D-I and decided those letters were the ones she was going to name her child with. But other than that, good point.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1282287801' post='454673']
One last thing! (and I know it's off topic, but I can't contain myself)...

...Franny, It think it's safe to say Jake Locker is your best bet as the next great dual-threat QB at this point .
[/quote]
I still believe in Armanti Edwards! I just have to pray that Matt Moore, Jimmy Clausen, and Tony Pike [i]all[/i] somehow fail!

[BrownsFan]

Asomugha > Revis.

There.. I've ended the debate.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Look I wanna be totally honest here. I don't think Aso would improve if he were on the Jets D and I don't think Revis would be any worse if he were in the Raiders D. I'm completely aware of the fact that Aso has less around him than Revis, but Revis has more work to do because he has more passes to defend. Plus if you wanna look at upside, Revis is entering his fourth year in the league while Aso is entering his 8th. Revis is 25 while Aso is 29, which means to me that Revis would be more valuable and bring more to the table in the future. Hey, he might not even be in his prime yet.

[RavensAllTheWay]

The bottomline is this..

Despite all the debating, I'd be thrilled to have either one on my team and they are definitely the top two corners in the nfl with charles woodson being third. You guys won't convince me that I'm wrong and I won't convince you that you're wrong. There ya have it.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1282288134' post='454675']
Truth be told, you can (obviously) make a case for either man being the "best" cornerback in the league. I also won't deny that it's silly to throw towards Revis. However, teams are apparently more comfortable throwing towards Revis then they are throwing towards Asomugha. When you factor that in, that's an entire side of the field you don't really have to worry about when Nnamdi is on the field. [b]Revis doesn't give you that sort of "ease of mind".[/b] You still have to concern yourself with the entire field, even though Revis will hold down his fort extremely well. The Raiders may have been 26th in overall defense, however they were 7th against the pass. Teams only attempted 27.4 passes per game against the Raiders last season, that's the best in the league (the Jets were 7th with 31.3). You have to believe that Asomugha had a [i]huge[/i] hand in that.
[/quote]
That's because teams don't take him seriously enough. He makes them pay for throwing it in his direction.

But whatever, I'll try not to debate anymore.

[BloodRaven]

Loved the video. Nnamdi is pretty classy and not big headed at all, probably because Rex isn't his coach.

[H8R]

He's a class act, no doubt about it! It's calm and precise confidence!

[RavensAllTheWay]

Can you believe that in 7 years in the league, Aso only has 11 career picks, and 8 in 2006? But I'm not discrediting him because as mentioned already, he isn't thrown to much at all.

[RavensAllTheWay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP-7pGFk84o&feature=search

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC4si4SPqfo&feature=related

There is no doubt in my mind that the Raiders D makes Aso's job easier after watching these highlights.

[BloodRaven]

Yes those highlights paint the whole picture. Never mind how badly the D ranks over the season because those videos say it all.


Edit:

Location: Sarcasmville
Status: Mayor

[AwakenTheDemon]

You're looking at highlights, which aren't showing the entire story of the season. Aso may have had an easy time during those plays, but what about the rest of the season?

The Raiders have consistently been ranked in the bottom of the league when it comes to defense... except for the pass.

2007:
22nd Overall Defense (8th Against the Pass, 31st Against the Run)
8th in Total Passing Allowed (3,132 Yards)
8th in Passing Yards Allowed Per Game (195.8 Yards)
11th Lowest Pass Completion Allowed (59.5%)
2nd Lowest Amount of Passes Attempted Per Game Against a Defense (27.5)
4th Lowest Amount of Passing Touchdowns Allowed (17)

2008:
27th Overall Defense (10th Against the Pass, 31st Against the Run)
10th in Total Passing Allowed (3,220 Yards)
10th in Passing Yards Allowed Per Game (201.2 Yards)
4th Lowest Pass Completion Allowed (56.5%)
5th Lowest Amount of Passes Attempted Per Game Against a Defense (29.4)
14th Lowest Amount of Passing Touchdowns Allowed (20)

2009:
26th Overall Defense (7th Against the Pass, 29th Against the Run)
7th in Total Passing Allowed (3,303 Yards)
7th in Passing Yards Allowed Per Game (206.4 Yards)
12th Lowest Pass Completion Allowed (59.1%)
1st Lowest Amount of Passes Attempted Per Game Against a Defense (27.4)
6th Lowest Amount of Passing Touchdowns Allowed (16)

Inversely, they given up the most rushing touchdowns last year, 5th most in 2008, and the most in 2007.

My point with all of that is that Aso isn't going to have the statistics to back up his claim to the best corner in the league due to the fact that no one throws to him and Oakland is so anemic against the run. Teams have attempted more rushes per game against Oakland the past two years than any other team in the league.