Is Tavares Gooden On The Bubble?

[H8R]

It seems like this guy is injured ALL OFF THE TIME. We can't depend on this guy, he is inconsistent, plays too fast with a lack of control and seems to be out of position often. I know he's a physical specimen when healthy but come one, this guy is made of glass. He's sitting out of practice again because of an unspecified injury.

What are your opinions, could he be the odd man out? I'm very close to writing him off unless something changes SOON with him.

[robbcs3]

I believe at one point they had Jameel McClain listed first. Ellerbe looked awesome last year too. Even Barnes is having a good camp, too. Guess we"'ll have to wait and see.

[robbcs3]

I can't edit from my phone, I know Barnes is on the outside. Downstream change my opinion though

[justifythegame]

Seriously doubt it. Ravens had a lot of high hopes for him. He is a guy who they believe dropped to the 3rd round because of injury concerns. But a 3rd round investment is still very high. In fact i read some of Bisciotti's comments when Bart Scott was let go, and he said he would not have let Bart Scott leave had the Ravens invested a pick in Gooden and have high expectations for him. And there is no reason to cut the kid before his rookie deal expires, that just throwing the pick away. I believe Jameel McClain might be on the bubble, they are starting him right now to see if he has any value at LB, if not they are trying to move him around and see if he has value at any position like moving him back to the outside. Jason Phillips hasn't even played yet because of an injury- do you think he should be cut? The coaches have high hopes for him as well. More likely if Ayenbedejo gets cut, who too is coming off from injury. Ravens are known to invest picks in injury risk players when they drop, and if they still have injury issues we might not re-sign them when their rookie deal expires.

Also this team really lacks speed at LB, its one of our weaknesses especially when rushing the passer after bart scott left. If we cut gooden we lose all speed completely. Its very important to us that he develops.

[H8R]

McClain is FAST, Brendan is fast,Barnes is fast.....What are you talking about? As for cutting Phillips, Gooden has had the chance to actually play and he hasn't been able to put together a string of solid games and Ellerbee made him look like a chump when he took his spot AGAIN TO INJURY. Phillips has looked good in training camp and has been on the field.

Barnes ran a 4.4, McClain ran a 4.5 at his Pro Day, Brendan is a physical freak!

[justifythegame]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1281404258' post='447551']
McClain is FAST, Brendan is fast,Barnes is fast.....What are you talking about? As for cutting Phillips, Gooden has had the chance to actually play and he hasn't been able to put together a string of solid games and Ellerbee made him look like a chump when he took his spot AGAIN TO INJURY. Phillips has looked good in training camp and has been on the field.
[/quote]
Those guys are not starters. Gooden is... or at least a competitor.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1281404258' post='447551']
McClain is FAST, Brendan is fast,Barnes is fast.....What are you talking about? As for cutting Phillips, Gooden has had the chance to actually play and he hasn't been able to put together a string of solid games and Ellerbee made him look like a chump when he took his spot AGAIN TO INJURY. Phillips has looked good in training camp and has been on the field.

Barnes ran a 4.4, McClain ran a 4.5 at his Pro Day, Brendan is a physical freak!
[/quote]

Ellerbe got the job because of 2 injuries at MLB. Ellerbe has his positives, but also is a huge liability in coverage, and lacks speed in blitzing situations.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1281404258' post='447551']
McClain is FAST, Brendan is fast,Barnes is fast.....What are you talking about? As for cutting Phillips, Gooden has had the chance to actually play and he hasn't been able to put together a string of solid games and Ellerbee made him look like a chump when he took his spot AGAIN TO INJURY. Phillips has looked good in training camp and has been on the field.

Barnes ran a 4.4, McClain ran a 4.5 at his Pro Day, Brendan is a physical freak!
[/quote]

Ayenbedejo is a pro bowl STs player. nothing more. physical freaks don't equal ability to play MLB. He got hurt while getting tossed around like a rag doll.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1281404258' post='447551']
McClain is FAST, Brendan is fast,Barnes is fast.....What are you talking about? As for cutting Phillips, Gooden has had the chance to actually play and he hasn't been able to put together a string of solid games and Ellerbee made him look like a chump when he took his spot AGAIN TO INJURY. Phillips has looked good in training camp and has been on the field.

Barnes ran a 4.4, McClain ran a 4.5 at his Pro Day, Brendan is a physical freak!
[/quote]
maybe we should cut fabian washington too, he has been hurt every year with the ravens.

[H8R]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1281404750' post='447566']
maybe we should cut fabian washington too, he has been hurt every year with the ravens.
[/quote]


No need in being all uptight about it, it's a valid question. Maybe you have some sort of love-affair with Gooden but I don't.

[PuRock]

I can see where your're coming from. But I can't see the team parting ways with him, at least not this year.

Last season was really the only time he's seen significant gametime. He saw only 4 games in 2008 and 12 in 2009. Grant it, he's missed all this time because of injury but the point is, he's still young and very talented.

His window is closing, but he won't be the odd man out this year.

[Alexir]

I really doubt Phillips will make the roster. I haven't heard anything special about him and I read that he is atrocious in pass coverage.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1281405206' post='447575']
I really doubt Phillips will make the roster. I haven't heard anything special about him and I read that he is atrocious in pass coverage.
[/quote]

Same here. The reports I have heard from training camp is that he looks *shrugs shoulders* "okay". He can stop the run and that's about all he's doing. That's fine but the Ravens do want more from their linebackers.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1281403819' post='447544']
Seriously doubt it. Ravens had a lot of high hopes for him. He is a guy who they believe dropped to the 3rd round because of injury concerns. But a 3rd round investment is still very high. In fact i read some of Bisciotti's comments when Bart Scott was let go, and he said he would not have let Bart Scott leave had the Ravens invested a pick in Gooden and have high expectations for him. And there is no reason to cut the kid before his rookie deal expires, that just throwing the pick away. I believe Jameel McClain might be on the bubble, [b]they are starting him right now to see if he has any value at LB[/b], if not they are trying to move him around and see if he has value at any position like moving him back to the outside. Jason Phillips hasn't even played yet because of an injury- do you think he should be cut? The coaches have high hopes for him as well. More likely if Ayenbedejo gets cut, who too is coming off from injury. Ravens are known to invest picks in injury risk players when they drop, and if they still have injury issues we might not re-sign them when their rookie deal expires.

Also this team really lacks speed at LB, its one of our weaknesses especially when rushing the passer after bart scott left. If we cut gooden we lose all speed completely. Its very important to us that he develops.
[/quote]

That doesn't make any sense. He's clearly playing 1st string because he has proven something to the coaches. The coaches can see if he has value on the 2nd team and 3rd team too. McClain in my eyes is pretty much a lock at this point. He is a stud special teamer, and he has good upside at LB

[H8R]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1281405163' post='447574']
I can see where your're coming from. But I can't see the team parting ways with him, at least not this year.

Last season was really the only time he's seen significant gametime. He saw only 4 games in 2008 and 12 in 2009. Grant it, he's missed all this time because of injury but the point is, he's still young and very talented.

His window is closing, but he won't be the odd man out this year.
[/quote]


I think you're right, it's just frustrating for him to be hurt soo often.

[H8R]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1281405330' post='447579']
That doesn't make any sense. He's clearly playing 1st string because he has proven something to the coaches. The coaches can see if he has value on the 2nd team and 3rd team too. McClain in my eyes is pretty much a lock at this point. He is a stud special teamer, and he has good upside at LB
[/quote]


I agree, if they wanted a closer look he would be second or third string because they get the best look in the pre-season, the starters go out quick in the early games.

[blitzking33]

i think it's like this.. Ellerbe is the starter and Gooden is the backup next to Ray Ray... but coaches are starting Jameel there for training camp to see what else he can do, but they know that either Ellerbe or Gooden is the week 1 starter. (most likely Ellerbe)

When i was a freshman trying out for the high school football squad, i gave it all i had every play, then the coaches started to take me out during 2 a days to give another guy a shot before cuts. I thought i was going to get cut because i was on the sidelines most of the time, turns out they were just seeing if the other guy has anything else to prove, he got cut and i made the team.

but who knows... whoever is starting week 1 is the best man for the job at the time.

[ed.s52]

Blitzking has a point. I'm not saying he is right but its certainly a possiblity, I mean we did cut Jameel this year (Although we resigned him later).

Personally, I want us to trade Gooden to the Giants for a CB. They are short on LB's and deep at CB. And Gooden isn't big enough, and needs either more size or better technique so he can fight some blocks. I'd prefer Ellerbee over Gooden, yet I still think Gooden has more trade value than Ellerbee.

As for Philips, he's been on the IR so I consider this his rookie season. This should be the time when he transitions to the NFL and learns how to cover. I don't see him starting, but he'll probably be put on the practice squad and I'm not sure a team will pick him up

[justifythegame]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1281404937' post='447569']
No need in being all uptight about it, it's a valid question. Maybe you have some sort of love-affair with Gooden but I don't.
[/quote]
Um... i'm not uptight... i was serious about fabian washington. i am not a fan of him. You need to chill, don't get angry when someone questions your thread, thats what happens when you make a post.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='blitzking33' timestamp='1281409669' post='447666']
i think it's like this.. Ellerbe is the starter and Gooden is the backup next to Ray Ray... but coaches are starting Jameel there for training camp to see what else he can do, but they know that either Ellerbe or Gooden is the week 1 starter. (most likely Ellerbe)

When i was a freshman trying out for the high school football squad, i gave it all i had every play, then the coaches started to take me out during 2 a days to give another guy a shot before cuts. I thought i was going to get cut because i was on the sidelines most of the time, turns out they were just seeing if the other guy has anything else to prove, he got cut and i made the team.

but who knows... whoever is starting week 1 is the best man for the job at the time.
[/quote]
EXACTLY

[justifythegame]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1281405320' post='447578']
Same here. The reports I have heard from training camp is that he looks *shrugs shoulders* "okay". He can stop the run and that's about all he's doing. That's fine but the Ravens do want more from their linebackers.
[/quote]
I actually heard the exact opposite. Heard mattison talk about how excited he was about his health status. This guy was ranked one of the best LBs in that draft. He was supposed to be a really early pick and dropped really late because of his injury at the combine. He actually has the most potential of any of the young MLBs on the team, but what they weren't sure is if he could get healthy and return back to form. And the ravens saw it as a 5th round investment in a player that would be worth a really high pick in the future or whenever he is able to return to form. As of this moment he would be coming in as a rookie and wouldn't get much playing time though. He isn't a speed guy like Bart Scott, he plays more like Ray. He can move sideline to sideline very quickly and has great instincts and comes from TCU, a factory for LBs. They are hoping he becomes a gem and can fill Ray's shoes one day if he comes along. There is no way they cut him.

[Radinho84]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1281412728' post='447704']
I actually heard the exact opposite. Heard mattison talk about how excited he was about his health status. This guy was ranked one of the best LBs in that draft. He was supposed to be a really early pick and dropped really late because of his injury at the combine. He actually has the most potential of any of the young MLBs on the team, but what they weren't sure is if he could get healthy and return back to form. And the ravens saw it as a 5th round investment in a player that would be worth a really high pick in the future or whenever he is able to return to form. As of this moment he would be coming in as a rookie and wouldn't get much playing time though. He isn't a speed guy like Bart Scott, he plays more like Ray. He can move sideline to sideline very quickly and has great instincts and comes from TCU, a factory for LBs. They are hoping he becomes a gem and can fill Ray's shoes one day if he comes along. There is no way they cut him.
[/quote]
i hope you´re right about that! i like him a lot and was very excited when we drafted him. he needs a year on the practice squad and maybe a few shots in the season if someone gets injured. he should be a monster in the future. next year he will be ready. just take this one and learn from the stud himself...

[PuRock]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1281412728' post='447704']
I actually heard the exact opposite. Heard mattison talk about how excited he was about his health status. This guy was ranked one of the best LBs in that draft. He was supposed to be a really early pick and dropped really late because of his injury at the combine. He actually has the most potential of any of the young MLBs on the team, but what they weren't sure is if he could get healthy and return back to form. And the ravens saw it as a 5th round investment in a player that would be worth a really high pick in the future or whenever he is able to return to form. As of this moment he would be coming in as a rookie and wouldn't get much playing time though. He isn't a speed guy like Bart Scott, he plays more like Ray. He can move sideline to sideline very quickly and has great instincts and comes from TCU, a factory for LBs. They are hoping he becomes a gem and can fill Ray's shoes one day if he comes along. There is no way they cut him.
[/quote]

I know you have to take his opinion with a grain of salt. But here is Mike Preston's report from the Baltimore Sun.

[i][b]Running impaired[/b]
Linebacker Jason Phillips, a fifth-round pick in 2009, can play the run, but he is atrocious against the pass. Talk about foot speed? Oooh, very, very slow. One linebacker, though, who has been impressive is Antwan Barnes, especially in pass rushing situations. He could give starter Terrell Suggs some relief during the regular season.[/i]

[url="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2010/08/a_couple_of_wednesday_morning_observations.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+sports_football_ravens+(Ravens+I"]Ravens insider[/url]

[quote]Phillips' foot speed is being described as "very, very slow." The 2009 fifth-rounder missed all of last season after tearing his LCL, and it sounds like he's struggling to recapture his pre-injury form. He's not guaranteed a roster spot this summer[/quote]

[BloodRaven]

So with the likes of BA, Phillips and Gooden on the bubble where does that leave Prescott Burgess? he was our best ST gunners last season.

[H8R]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1281412728' post='447704']
I actually heard the exact opposite. Heard mattison talk about how excited he was about his health status. This guy was ranked one of the best LBs in that draft. He was supposed to be a really early pick and dropped really late because of his injury at the combine. He actually has the most potential of any of the young MLBs on the team, but what they weren't sure is if he could get healthy and return back to form. And the ravens saw it as a 5th round investment in a player that would be worth a really high pick in the future or whenever he is able to return to form. As of this moment he would be coming in as a rookie and wouldn't get much playing time though. He isn't a speed guy like Bart Scott, he plays more like Ray. He can move sideline to sideline very quickly and has great instincts and comes from TCU, a factory for LBs. They are hoping he becomes a gem and can fill Ray's shoes one day if he comes along. There is no way they cut him.
[/quote]

Bart Scott a speed guy? Now you've lost it... I guess you just ignored my rebuttal to you saying we wouldnt have ANY speed at LB if T.Good wasn't here.. thats abusrd.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1281456933' post='447832']
So with the likes of BA, Phillips and Gooden on the bubble where does that leave Prescott Burgess? he was our best ST gunners last season.
[/quote]

Good point. I'm hoping Burgess sticks and he should because B.A. likely won't be ready at the start of the year and Phillips could be cut.

[Raven2daBone]

I dont think he's on the bubble, but he's in the midst of a pretty talented Inside Linebacking corp. He's gonna be fighting for playing time all year long because McClain and Ellerbe are playing some outstanding ball. I'm not saying Gooden doesn't have his moments, he's probably the best coverage linebacker of the group. All i can say is the best player will play the most....Point Blank...

[justifythegame]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1281461998' post='447863']
Bart Scott a speed guy? Now you've lost it... I guess you just ignored my rebuttal to you saying we wouldnt have ANY speed at LB if T.Good wasn't here.. thats abusrd.
[/quote]
Your post is whats absurd. Now im starting to think you don't even watch Ravens games. Did you just jump on the bandwagon or something? Yes Bart Scott was a speed guy, in fact he was the fastest LB on the team during his days here. You obviously don't even bother to read because i replied to your comment yet you are bringing up old arguments.

[The Raven]

No, Gooden is not on the bubble. However, I think he's approaching it. I've been to two practices, and I've read reports. Just from those two practices I can tell you this. They are not starting McClain just to see what he can do. He is making plays, and he's highly consistent. Ellerbe's doin pretty hot too. Gooden has not made the plays that Ellerbe and McClain have consistently made. I can guarantee you that McClain deserves the starting job, at least from what I've seen.

About Blizking's comment, while that may be true for tryouts, these players have already tried out, and made the team, they're workin on playtime and starting now. there's a slight difference.

[ravens13]

I don't think he is on the bubble either...but I think he should be. Even last year I thought it was clear that both McLain and Ellerbe were better than him (so is Barnes, but he's an outside linebacker exclusively). The Ravens seem to believe in him though, and much like Clayton, I think he will stay around. This is unfortunate because two young players with potential are going to be cut to keep them around. Have you attempted to make a 53 man roster from the guys we have now!? I don't envy the people making those decisions. I also would love to see Eron Riley stay around. He has an extremely high ceiling athletically, has good hands, and put up good numbers at Duke. Depending upon his preseason game performance, we might not be able to keep him on the practice squad.

Best case scenario for the Ravens and Gooden (or Clayton...or Troy Smith) is that we get a decent trade offer for a cornerback.

P.S. I see Burgess getting cut. He barely made the team last year and was expendable, bouncing around to New England and back. I think he was traded in the preseason, so I think it's likely that he was going to be cut or was on the bubble last year. If he couldn't make last year's team easily, he's not going to make a deeper team this year. On the other hand, there are good arguments on here about injuries to other special teamers.