Anyone Wish We Drafted Kyle Wilson?

[Alexir]

The Ravens have needed to address CB since 2007. Yet we never did. Yes Webb looked promising but the reason we have had such a great defense over the years is because we had a shut down corner in CMac. This isn't going to turn into a bring back McAlister thread but rather a draft a freakin' shut down corner!

I mean it doesn't have to be a first round pick but seriously FO, you didnt draft a single CB this year when 2 of your starting corners were on IR and we were coming off the playoffs where we played Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, 2 teams we normally struggle against because they are pass first teams. AOA was out there! Cox was too!

We need a cornerback! I don't want Revis or Asomugha, I just want a healthy corner who understands the game and has some athletic talent.

[H8R]

It will be addressed somehow, in the next off-season if not sooner. Similar to the WR situation.

[I AM LEGEND]

lol

i see we still have the "ravens Front Office can do no wrong" club

guys it was a mistake to not address the CB position on this team. Period




that feeling some of you are having is called

DENIAL

[FlaccoFlicker]

and I thought the feeling I was having was gas hmph totally got that one wrong too darn

[ed.s52]

Why is it hard to understand the concept that throwing a rookie corner (a second or later round pick at that unless we got Wilson) into a starting position will not solve our problems. It will just create more.

If Wilson started, he probably wouldn't be as good as many of you think he would be considering you guys are saying he should be the #1 corner, and since he is not better (at least not yet) than Webb or Fab and most likely wouldn't start over them both, he would be a #3 corner. And after Wilson, any corner we got in later rounds would be even farther down the depth chart.

I do understand the concern for corner depth but a rookie corner is not the awnser, at least not at the #1 position. There were some bright rookie corners last year, but they weren't spectacular and mostly played #2 or #3 roles. This class will probably be the same, especially since its extremely hard to transition between college WR's to NFL caliber WR's. It isn't nearly as easy of a transition as other positions.

And since the corner position can still be adressed by trading for someone like Rashean Mathis or another proven vet unhappy with a team or contract, having Kyle Wilson would make even less of an impact in that case.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1281406500' post='447601']
lol

i see we still have the "ravens Front Office can do no wrong" club

guys it was a mistake to not address the CB position on this team. Period




that feeling some of you are having is called

DENIAL
[/quote]


They did address it, and will continue to address it, just not in the way that you envisioned. What makes you so knowledgeable, anyway? What were you saying last year when they drafted Oher and Webb? Quite annoying...

[H8R]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1281406967' post='447613']
They did address it, and will continue to address it, just not in the way that you envisioned. What makes you so knowledgeable, anyway? What were you saying last year when they drafted Oher and Webb? Quite annoying...
[/quote]


Nothing, he just swings from the beans of Back-up QB's and the Anit-Ozzie crowd.

[ed.s52]

Its not a "Ravens FO can do no wrong" club

as much as a "These are payed elite experts that are smarter than most website members" club. And throw in many rate them as a top FO and you understand why I should take their decisions above your opinions Legend.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1281404463' post='447558']
[b]The Ravens have needed to address CB since 2007. Yet we never did. Yes Webb looked promising but the reason we have had such a great defense over the years is because we had a shut down corner in CMac.[/b] This isn't going to turn into a bring back McAlister thread but rather a draft a freakin' shut down corner!

I mean it doesn't have to be a first round pick but seriously FO, you didnt draft a single CB this year when 2 of your starting corners were on IR and we were coming off the playoffs where we played Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, 2 teams we normally struggle against because they are pass first teams. AOA was out there! Cox was too!

We need a cornerback! I don't want Revis or Asomugha, I just want a healthy corner who understands the game and has some athletic talent.
[/quote]

So I guess trading for Fabian in '08 and signing Foxworth in '09 don't count?

And while McAlister was a really good CB in his prime, he wasn't the reason the Ravens had a great D. They have always taken away the opponent's ability to run before pinning their ears back and battering the QB.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1281407611' post='447637']
So I [b]guess trading for Fabian in '08 and signing Foxworth in '09 don't count?[/b]

And while McAlister was a really good CB in his prime, he wasn't the reason the Ravens had a great D. They have always taken away the opponent's ability to run before pinning their ears back and battering the QB.
[/quote]

Well since we are having this discussion, what do you think?

Of course we didnt address the CB problem with those 2. All we did was sign 2 players who could fight it out for the Number 2 spot. Neither one of them are a number 1 talent. That's not a knock on them, they are very valuable to our team but I rather have them playing CB2 and CB3. They just aren't shut down corners.

Webb was the most promising CB we brought in and I am hoping he comes back normal and not favoring the knee or scared to hit.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1281407857' post='447644']
Well since we are having this discussion, what do you think?

Of course we didnt address the CB problem with those 2. All we did was sign 2 players who could fight it out for the Number 2 spot. Neither one of them are a number 1 talent. That's not a knock on them, they are very valuable to our team but I rather have them playing CB2 and CB3. They just aren't shut down corners.

Webb was the most promising CB we brought in and I am hoping he comes back normal and not favoring the knee or scared to hit.
[/quote]

To me, signing one player and trading for another in consecutive off-seasons(in addition to drafting one in round 3) is addressing the position. No, they aren't "shutdown CBs" but not only is that term thrown around far too casually but not every team is going to have great CBs. Still, with the way Foxworth improved last season and was looking this off-season, he very well could have developed into the #1 CB the team likely envisioned when they signed him to a multi-year deal.

Honestly, if none of CBs tore their ACLs going back to last season, would you be saying the CB position hasn't been addressed?

EDIT: Another factor that can't be stressed enough is how below average(especially by Ravens standards) the pass rush has been over the past two seasons.

[ed.s52]

Nmadi Asoughma, Darrelle Revis, Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey.

Those are the only true shutdown corners in the league today. So in that case we didnt get a shutdown corner, but we got a capable #1 in Foxworth and a decent #2 in Fabian, as well as a good #2 in Webb.

The reason we are having this discussion is because we have 3 corners coming off major injuries (Walt Harris, Fab, and Webb), one with an ACL tear (Fox), and a constant undeerestimation of our CB's and pass rush.

Travis Fisher is consistent, Fab is alright, Webb has a lot of potential and is pretty good, and our devestating pass rush will make them all look top-notch.

[JO_75]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1281408965' post='447661']
Nmadi Asoughma, Darrelle Revis, Charles Woodson, [b]Champ Bailey. [/b]
[/quote]

I think we should trade for Bailey since he is going to be on a contract year anyhow, and we just extend him 2-3 years and our CB situation would be fine. Even Rashean Mathis from Jacksonville wouldn't be a bad idea for a Corner to trade for, and even Ronde Barber might not be a bad idea.

[Wacko4Zacko]

I wish we had drafted Donovan Warren instead of David Reed, but Im fine.

[ed.s52]

If the FO wanted Donnavan Warren we probably woulda got him as a UDFA or in the 6th instead of Harewood.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1281417375' post='447727']
I think we should trade for Bailey since he is going to be on a contract year anyhow, and we just extend him 2-3 years and our CB situation would be fine. Even Rashean Mathis from Jacksonville wouldn't be a bad idea for a Corner to trade for, and even Ronde Barber might not be a bad idea.
[/quote]

Bailey might be tricky simply becausey he is the cornerstone of the Denver defense. Mathis is having problems with his contract and the Jags FO don't seem willing to reconstruct it, and he's pretty beastly, so i would be for that.

Ronde honestly just isn't that good anymore. Not bad, but not very good.

[Radinho84]

back on topic: i would not wanted us to take wilson. there is a reason why we didn´t take him and if we had, we wouldn´t have kindle and cody right now. maybe cody but kindle wouldn´t be on the team. i think kindle will be great when he recovered from his accident. he was the most dominant de/olb in college last year and a lot of people said that most of orakpo´s greatness came with kindle on the other side. i believe that this guy will be a major factor of our defense in a few years and one of the best in the nfl. and cody could be elite, too. he is a monster allready and we will know how to use him!

two players are allways better than one!!

[Raven2daBone]

We're jumping the gun with this one...let's just see what Kindle brings to the table before we start witha all the What If stuff.

[poedacrow]

He was on the board at #25, the organization had shown some interest in him and I was shocked that we traded out of the first round and allowed the Jets to nab him.
20-20 hindsight notwhithstanding, I think he would have been an excellent addition to this team and I'm not just saying that because of our current DB woes.

But the FO saw something in that 2nd round that they really wanted more than Kyle Wilson. I'm cool with that and anyway...that's FO stuff and who knows, maybe Revis gets disgusted, sits this year out and finds himself in a Ravens uniform next year?

[Andrew Glass]

I thought the trade was stupid from day 1, We could of drafted wilson, Got cody or a pass rushing(a ton were still on the board) and got one of the TE's. Terrible move.

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='Andrew Glass' timestamp='1281499587' post='448152']
I thought the trade was stupid from day 1, We could of drafted wilson, Got cody or a pass rushing(a ton were still on the board) and got one of the TE's. Terrible move.
[/quote]
When you look at it that way, you could argue that it wasn't the best move we could've made. However, it's naive to say it was a stupid trade. If Ozzie was psychic and knew guys like Cody and Pitta were going to fall as much as they did, AND that Foxy was going to tear his acl, I'm sure he would have reconsidered.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Andrew Glass' timestamp='1281499587' post='448152']
I thought the trade was stupid from day 1, We could of drafted wilson, Got cody or a pass rushing(a ton were still on the board) and got one of the TE's. Terrible move.
[/quote]

Oversimplified and immature take on an almost ideal value trade out of the first round in a deep draft. You're basically saying that, in hindsight, you would trade away Kindle, Dickson and Pitta for Kyle Wilson. No one could have predicted Kindle and Foxworth getting injured, but in any case, I wouldn't even trade Dickson and Pitta for Wilson! You don't know that either of them would have fallen to the fifth round, and by all accounts Dickson (drafted with the 3rd round pick we acquired by trading back) is really shining.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1281501189' post='448164']
Oversimplified and immature take on an almost ideal value trade out of the first round in a deep draft. You're basically saying that, in hindsight, you would trade away Kindle, Dickson and Pitta for Kyle Wilson. No one could have predicted Kindle and Foxworth getting injured, but in any case, I wouldn't even trade Dickson and Pitta for Wilson! You don't know that either of them would have fallen to the fifth round, and by all accounts Dickson (drafted with the 3rd round pick we acquired by trading back) is really shining.
[/quote]

I agree with the point you are making in general, but I would definitely trade Dickson and Pitta for Kyle Wilson.

[Radinho84]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1281502118' post='448167']
I agree with the point you are making in general, but I would definitely trade Dickson and Pitta for Kyle Wilson.
[/quote]
i will ask you that question in two years again my friend. someone up there was right about jumping the gun on this one. maybe we should wait at least till the end of that season to judge about the trade...lets see what those three guys can do for their teams first...

[NeoZer0]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1281381338' post='447261']
We haven't seen anyone play yet so I'm indifferent.
[/quote]

Agreed!

[BloodRaven]

If some of you think you know better than Ozzie, and that our picks were bad and that Kyle Wilson is guaranteed not to be a bust, then you should be held accountable for your words if you're wrong. I'm bringing this page back in 3 years.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1281502118' post='448167']
I agree with the point you are making in general, but I would definitely trade Dickson and Pitta for Kyle Wilson.
[/quote]

That's absolutely ludicrous.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1281541851' post='448310']
That's absolutely ludicrous.
[/quote]
Yeah, that's a bit crazy. Let's trade two great POTENTIAL players for one great POTENTIAL player [/sarcasm]

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1281539188' post='448256']
If some of you think you know better than Ozzie, and that our picks were bad and that Kyle Wilson is guaranteed not to be a bust, then you should be held accountable for your words if you're wrong. I'm bringing this page back in 3 years.
[/quote]
Haha...I can't wait. Thanks for addressing that.

[AlaskanRavensFan]

The thing that fans forget is how important a solid pass rush is to a corner's performance. I don't remember hearing very much about Revis until Rex and his defense came to NY. On the flipside of that we were left with Washington and Foxworth. Most people questioned the Foxworth signing but also figured that Washington was solid since he had performed well under Rex's D the year prior. When Suggs showed up and was playing at 280 and we weren't blitzing the balls off teams anymore our corners got exposed. Let's not forget that Reed was doing his own thing in the secondary much of last year too. So, once our pass rush improved and Reed had decided to play the defense that was called we actually saw better play from our corners as well. Later in the season, in particular the patriot game, our corners looked crazy good. Even Frank Walker was layin people out, and not before the ball got there.

So no I would not rather have Wilson. Kindle will heal from his injury and hopefully play later this season, plus we got two TE's which was a desperate need last year.

Before we start second guessing all the offseason moves let's just remember that any team would look bad if they had two or three injuries at one position. (broncos for instance) (or just one for say the Colts or Saints if they lost Brees or Manning wouldn't their season pretty much be done? I mean Jim Sorgi? or Curtis Painter? I don't even know who the saints backup QB is but same idea.