How Does Joe Stack Up?

[Purple Punishment]

Sitting here bored with nothing to do. I was looking up old NFL players that I grew up watching. So I get to looking at Jim Kelly. It turns out that he eclipsed 3,500yds twice in his career and only had one season (1991) where he threw for more than Flaccos career high. Now, I know the league has changed into a pass friendly league. To aruge against that though, The Bills were infamous for their K-Gun offense, where multiple plays would be called in one huddle and there would be a mad dash to offset defenses after each play, resulting in no substitutions and barely any good communication for the defenses

Flacoos career high for passing yards in one season: 3,613
Jim Kellys career high for passing yds in one season: 3,844

I just think its ridiculous to say Flacco isnt progressing if he doesnt break 4000 yards this season. Sit back and let him develop as a [b]leader[/b], not as a guy that can throw for many yards.

[T-ray]

No doubt about it, I think Flacco is a very underrated player outside of Maryland. And he is a top 10 Qb, as we speak. Just because he comes across as having a quiet demeanor does not mean he is a great leader inside of the huddle. Just wait; he'll be a top 5 Qb before this year is over.

[Purple Punishment]

Exactly, how many Qbs that threw over 4000 yards in the season, get shut down in the playoffs?

I dont know Carson Palmers stats from last season but the Jets D owned his butt

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='28 July 2010 - 10:39 AM' timestamp='1280331592' post='439064']
[b]Exactly, how many Qbs that threw over 4000 yards in the season, get shut down in the playoffs?
[/b]
I dont know Carson Palmers stats from last season but the Jets D owned his butt
[/quote]

Well, Manning and Brees both threw for over 4000 yards and made it to the Superbowl... Let's not Favre threw for 4,200 yards and barely missed the playoffs.

Tony Romo, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rodgers were the ones who threw for over 4,000 yards and went no where. So really, saying that quarterbacks who throw for over 4,000 yards usually get shut down in the playoffs isn't exactly accurate.

Also, isn't it [s]a little[/s] way too early to be comparing Joe to a Hall of Famer in any way, shape, or form? I love the guy, but he's only in his third season.

[PuRock]

Jim Kelley you're talking about different era in football. That era is not the same as the current "air it out" era we are in now.

The rules protecting the QB are greater today, the rules protected the receivers are greater today and teams focused on the pass is greater today. Plus you're talking about Buffalo. When winter comes around it is hard to play pass football in December & January there.

Plus you're talking about a guy that played for Buffalo. How many home games a year were affected by wind/snow is probably pretty great.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='28 July 2010 - 09:48 AM' timestamp='1280332134' post='439080']
Well, Manning and Brees both threw for over 4000 yards and made it to the Superbowl...

Also, isn't it [s]a little[/s] way too early to be comparing Joe to a Hall of Famer in any way, shape, or form? I love the guy, but he's only in his third season.
[/quote]
isnt that one of mannings greatest weaknesses though? traditionally he'll blow it up in the season and flop in the playoffs....

OP i like the reference to the K-Gun because i love it when we run the no huddle

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Mahatma_Sloth' date='28 July 2010 - 10:56 AM' timestamp='1280332613' post='439091']
isnt that one of mannings greatest weaknesses though? traditionally he'll blow it up in the season and flop in the playoffs....

OP i like the reference to the K-Gun because i love it when we run the no huddle
[/quote]

He doesn't exactly win playoff games, no. But that doesn't mean he gets "shut down" in the playoffs, how often do you ever see Peyton get "shut down"?

[Ravenseconbeast]

Reaching 4000 is a milestone for Flacco.

Elite? Maybe he'll reach that this season similar to these young QB:

Aaron Rodgers(4434) - 2-yr experience as starting QB
Matt Schuab(4770)- 3-yr experience as starting QB
Philip Rivers(4252)- 4-yr experience as starting QB

HOF? Thats a whole another level.

[berad]

Kelly also made it to four straight Super Bowls, that's why he's in the Hall-of-Fame - his production was only secondary. Even though, personally, I think wins and losses (even post-season) are much more of a team function than an individual player.

[Jorgen]

[quote name='PuRock' date='28 July 2010 - 10:53 AM' timestamp='1280332425' post='439087']
Jim Kelley you're talking about different era in football. That era is not the same as the current "air it out" era we are in now.

The rules protecting the QB are greater today, the rules protected the receivers are greater today and teams focused on the pass is greater today. Plus you're talking about Buffalo. When winter comes around it is hard to play pass football in December & January there.

Plus you're talking about a guy that played for Buffalo. How many home games a year were affected by wind/snow is probably pretty great.
[/quote]

I agree entirely. The league is much more friendly to passers than it was in the past. If you reach far enough, Flacco's numbers easily outclass most of the earliest HOF quarterbacks. That doesn't necessarily make him HOF material, though, since just about any starting QB in the league has done that.

It's definitely too early to tell. Joe's a good QB, and I see him breaking out this year, but I honestly couldn't tell you if he's HOF material. Based on his current accomplishments, though, his first two years have been very *meh* relative to other QBs in the league.

[JEEPercreepermd]

Jeez I remember when a QB breaking 3,000 yds and 20 td's was an accomplishment.

Honestly, Joe could throw for 1500 yds ala Trent Dilfer and win the Super Bowl and I'd be completely happy.

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='JEEPercreepermd' date='28 July 2010 - 11:50 PM' timestamp='1280379034' post='439705']
Jeez I remember when a QB breaking 3,000 yds and 20 td's was an accomplishment.

Honestly, Joe could throw for 1500 yds ala Trent Dilfer and win the Super Bowl and I'd be completely happy.
[/quote]

Many people wouldnt be happy with that on this board...unless Ray Rice and McGahee both hit 1500 yards each to compensate for Flaccos low yardage for arguments sake

[Rav'n Maniac]

In my opinion stats are not what make a QB great or helps them to reach an elite status. Stats are nothing more than the byproduct of a players performance along with the performance of the players around him. Too many things happen to inflate / deflate stats such as dropped passes and the yac that has little to do with the QB.

I feel what makes a QB great is their leadership abilities and the ability to manage the game through diversity, resulting in wins. What makes a QB elite is the ability to accomplish the aforementioned year in and year out.

[Ravens Lover]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='28 July 2010 - 06:31 AM' timestamp='1280316690' post='438937']
Sitting here bored with nothing to do. I was looking up old NFL players that I grew up watching. So I get to looking at Jim Kelly. It turns out that he eclipsed 3,500yds twice in his career and only had one season (1991) where he threw for more than Flaccos career high. Now, I know the league has changed into a pass friendly league. To aruge against that though, The Bills were infamous for their K-Gun offense, where multiple plays would be called in one huddle and there would be a mad dash to offset defenses after each play, resulting in no substitutions and barely any good communication for the defenses

Flacoos career high for passing yards in one season: 3,613
Jim Kellys career high for passing yds in one season: 3,844

I just think its ridiculous to say Flacco isnt progressing if he doesnt break 4000 yards this season. Sit back and let him develop as a [b]leader[/b], not as a guy that can throw for many yards.
[/quote]

that suprises me considering who Flacco had to throw and who Kelly had to throw to

[ravensfan160]

The game has changed too much to accurately compare players from different periods. The most obvious example I think has to be the 1,000 yard season for a running back but applies to QB's as well. First they went from 12 games to 14 then 16 and now probably 18. The most fair thing to do is compare against their peers currently in the league. Its still not perfect because just 5 years ago DB's could do a lot more than they can now but its the best we can do I think.