Who Thinks Clayton Can Beat Out Stallworth ?

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1281146216' post='446025']
#3 WR is generally slot, which Clayton being there isn't a surprise to me. Everyone has been so high on Stalls like he's some sort of 1,000 yarder and he's not. I love him and think he's a great pick up, but I do believe Clayton will shine where he should have always been - in the slot.

Can't wait to see 4 WR sets with Rice and whatever TE we use...WOW!!!
[/quote]

I think there is 2 things that makes Stallworth stand out so much to some Ravens fans is that.......he is something different from Clayton and he has speed to blow the top of coverage.

A lot of fans don't really understand how Mason and Clayton being the same type of WR was actually a bad thing for the Ravens. It wasn't that Clayton was a poor WR or a bust, but he and Mason really should take on the same roles in the passing game. Making 7-15 yard catches, making the first tackler miss, coming up with key receptions on 3rd and having the occasional big play.

There is a reason the Ravens decided to keep Clayton over Washington, despite the fact that guys like Boldin and Stallworth were brought in.

[1/28/01]

Like just stated earlier, Boldin and Mason split out, Clayton in the slot, Stalls spreading everything out, Heap as TE and of course Rice doing his thing is just disgusting!!! If we have a top 7 or 8 (hopefully 5) defense and a top 10 offense, we're all in for a treat!!!

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1281149114' post='446069']
Like just stated earlier, Boldin and Mason split out, Clayton in the slot, Stalls spreading everything out, Heap as TE and of course Rice doing his thing is just disgusting!!! If we have a top 7 or 8 (hopefully 5) defense and a top 10 offense, we're all in for a treat!!!
[/quote]

I agree!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1281147854' post='446047']
I don't think it's so much as Ravens fans think Stallworth is a God, but I feel that most of it has to do with the impatience we have with Clayton. I for one am sick of him. I think he's wasting a spot on the roster,[b] and many of our younger WR's are being held back because of the chances we're giving him,[/b] and he has never taken full advantage of them. This happens every offseason where he's praised in camp, we get our hopes up, then he drops a games winning ball and disappears the game after he totalled 100+ yards with a TD. All I know is that someone with Stallworth's shiftiness and speed interests me. He also has [b]soft[/b] hands and can run crisp routes.

I know Clayton won't be cut before this season starts, but I pray that Stallworth beats him for that number three spot at least. [b]I also hope that the coaching staff doesn't limit the likes of David Reed, Eron Riley, Marcus Smith and Just Harper because they're trying to get their investement back from Mark which was a first round pick.[/b] If we're going to talk about Clayton having a good offseason, [b][url="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2010/08/stallworth.html"]let's talk about Stallworth shining as well.[/url][/b]
[/quote]

While I agree with some points you made, I disagree the other guys are being held back because of Mark's presence or that the coaches would limit the WRs you mentioned because they want Clayton to step up.

Reed has shown some ability this off-season but we have yet to see what he'll do in a game. Riley is [i]very[/i] raw and Harper's hands are inconsistent. Smith was the slot WR back in '08 but failed to record a single catch(part of that could be Joe's inexperience). He tore his ACL in pre-season last year and while he's looked good this off-season, we still don't know if he's good enough.

Also, with the team signing Clayton to a one-year deal three months ago, they aren't as committed to him as they were a few years ago.

My point is, if any of the young WRs are truly better than Clayton, now is the perfect time to show it. However, since Mark worked with the first team when Mason went down, one can assume he's still better than all of them.

[Romo Ravens]

I'm not very high on Riley, but I do like the potential that Reed, Harper and Smith all have. What better way to really test all of them than in a game situation? I think it's unfair that they all have to go out there in the preseason and perform with second and third team QB's. It doesn't give them any justice whatsoever. At least give them a shot with Flacco and see what they can accomplish.

Just like you said, ER20, we don't know what these players can produce because of Joe's old inaccuracy, Harper playing against second team defenses, and the old excuse of Riley being too "raw". But just give them some sort of an opportunity.

What's Clayton's problem, then?

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1281147854' post='446047']
I don't think it's so much as Ravens fans think Stallworth is a God, but I feel that most of it has to do with the impatience we have with Clayton. I for one am sick of him. I think he's wasting a spot on the roster, and many of our younger WR's are being held back because of the chances we're giving him, and he has never taken full advantage of them. This happens every offseason where he's praised in camp, we get our hopes up, then he drops a games winning ball and disappears the game after he totalled 100+ yards with a TD. All I know is that someone with Stallworth's shiftiness and speed interests me. He also has [b]soft[/b] hands and can run crisp routes.

I know Clayton won't be cut before this season starts, but I pray that Stallworth beats him for that number three spot at least. I also hope that the coaching staff doesn't limit the likes of David Reed, Eron Riley, Marcus Smith and Just Harper because they're trying to get their investement back from Mark which was a first round pick. If we're going to talk about Clayton having a good offseason, [b][url="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2010/08/stallworth.html"]let's talk about Stallworth shining as well.[/url][/b]
[/quote]

I disagree, i don't think the Ravens are trying to get anything back from Clayton as far as the drafted investment because, this coaching staff isn't the one that drafted him. It's the same as paying all that money for McGahee to be a change of pace back. Harbs will play the best guys.

So if you think younger guys like Harper, Smith, Riley, or whoever else have been held back by Clayton, i would have to strongly disagree.

Clayton had nothing to do with Harper having a case of the drops last season, Clayton had nothing to do with Smith falling to injury, as for Riley the guy had one above average preseason, against the backups of a team that allowed John Beck to shine against their starting defense, so he has a lot to prove before he can even be considered for a roster spot on this team, let alone moving up the WR depth chart.

So blaming Clayton, or the coaches interest in Clayton for younger guys not getting their shots is just not accurate imo. The young guys behind Clayton have to step up and prove that they are better then him, before the Ravens will just say, we're done with Clayton because we have younger talent.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1281151164' post='446089']
I'm not very high on Riley, but I do like the potential that Reed, Harper and Smith all have. What better way to really test all of them than in a game situation? I think it's unfair that they all have to go out there in the preseason and perform with second and third team QB's. It doesn't give them any justice whatsoever. At least give them a shot with Flacco and see what they can accomplish.

Just like you said, ER20, we don't know what these players can produce because of Joe's old inaccuracy, Harper playing against second team defenses, and the old excuse of Riley being too "raw". But just give them some sort of an opportunity.

What's Clayton's problem, then?
[/quote]
While I agree with you, which game are you willing to "gamble" in to test our developing WR's? Again, I agree with you, just not sure how you can see what's what in any other way than preseason.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1281152066' post='446101']
I disagree, i don't think the Ravens are trying to get anything back from Clayton as far as the drafted investment because, this coaching staff isn't the one that drafted him. It's the same as paying all that money for McGahee to be a change of pace back. Harbs will play the best guys.

So if you think younger guys like Harper, Smith, Riley, or whoever else have been held back by Clayton, i would have to strongly disagree.

Clayton had nothing to do with Harper having a case of the drops last season, Clayton had nothing to do with Smith falling to injury, as for Riley the guy had one above average preseason, against the backups of a team that allowed John Beck to shine against their starting defense, so he has a lot to prove before he can even be considered for a roster spot on this team, let alone moving up the WR depth chart.

So blaming Clayton, or the coaches interest in Clayton for younger guys not getting their shots is just not accurate imo. The young guys behind Clayton have to step up and prove that they are better then him, before the Ravens will just say, we're done with Clayton because we have younger talent.
[/quote]
Well said......I concur my friend

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1281152592' post='446106']
While I agree with you, which game are you willing to "gamble" in to test our developing WR's? Again, I agree with you, just not sure how you can see what's what in any other way than preseason.
[/quote]

I mean a game time situation, something [i]other than[/i] a preseason game. Our coaching staff should give some WR's deeper on our depth chart some minutes just to see what they have. A game where they're being tested against number two or even number one DB's. Mason and Q both need a breather at some point.

I'm sorry, I just really do not like Clayton.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1281152918' post='446109']
I mean a game time situation, something [i]other than[/i] a preseason game. Our coaching staff should give some WR's deeper on our depth chart some minutes just to see what they have. A game where they're being tested against number two or even number one DB's. Mason and Q both need a breather at some point.

I'm sorry, I just really do not like Clayton.
[/quote]
Again, I understand, but when? Preseason is the only real time to test and evaluate without playoff implications. I hear ya, just not sure how they'd go about in a "real time situation".

[I*Bleed*Purple]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1281150579' post='446084']
...and Harper's hands are inconsistent.[/quote]

Apparently, that's not the case this year. I have seen several blogs, etc. saying that Harper is catching everything he should, and even some balls that most would call "uncatchable". He says he's done nothing but work on his hands. I was high on him last year. I hope he makes the team. Height, speed, and now hands? That would be awesome!

[Romo Ravens]

Let me try to break my point down even more. The coaching staff won't be comfortable in replacing Clayton with one of the mentioned WR's in this thread (namely the practice fodders/developmental players), especially in a live game. If you look closer, this tells me that they're being content with the mediocre stats that Clayton can provide. They do this because he's a Veteran, he's safe, and someone who they're still hoping can provide plays for the Ravens.

While this is going on, what's happening to the likes of David Reed, Eron Riley, Justin Harper, Marcus Smith and Rodelin Anthony? They're riding the pine, and may never be able to live up to their true potential. Take Miles Austin for example. When the Cowboys traded for Roy E. Williams, where was he on the depth chart? Fighting with Kevin Ogletree and Sam Hurd for that number 3, number 4 spot? The Cowboys saw something in practice, so they tried him out. What did he do against the Chiefs? 250 recieving yards, 2 TD's even with a Safety over the top to help the Chiefs. All he needed was a chance, much like one of ours.

I don't like to bash my own Ravens players, so I'll stop. I just hope we see one of these younger players step up to the plate.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='I*Bleed*Purple' timestamp='1281153500' post='446116']
Apparently, that's not the case this year. I have seen several blogs, etc. saying that Harper is catching everything he should, and even some balls that most would call "uncatchable". He says he's done nothing but work on his hands. I was high on him last year. I hope he makes the team. Height, speed, and now hands? That would be awesome!
[/quote]

I've heard the same. Hope he can make some plays for us.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1281153657' post='446118']
Let me try to break my point down even more. The coaching staff won't be comfortable in replacing Clayton with one of the mentioned WR's in this thread (namely the practice fodders/developmental players), especially in a live game. If you look closer, this tell me that they're being content with the mediocre stats that Clayton can provide. They do this because he's a Veteran, he's safe, and someone who they're still hoping can provide plays for the Ravens.

While this is going on, what's happening to the likes of David Reed, Eron Riley, Justin Harper, Marcus Smith and Rodelin Anthony? They're riding the pine, and may never be able to live up to their true potential. Take Miles Austin for example. When the Cowboys traded for Roy E. Williams, where was he on the depth chart? Fighting with Kevin Ogletree and Sam Hurd for that number 3, number 4 spot? The Cowboys saw something in practice, so they tried him out. What did he do against the Chiefs? 250 recieving yards, 2 TD's even with a Safety over the top to help the Chiefs. All he needed was a chance, much like one of ours.

I don't like to bash my own Ravens players, so I'll stop. I just hope we see one of these younger players step up to the plate.
[/quote]
I do agree with you 100%. I would love nothing more than to see DHB2 shine. He was better in just about every statistical category in the ACC than DHB1 and the great and powerful Al Davis gave DHB1 $37M. Just not sure how to truly evaluate them outside of preseason.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1281153657' post='446118']
Let me try to break my point down even more. The coaching staff won't be comfortable in replacing Clayton with one of the mentioned WR's in this thread (namely the practice fodders/developmental players), especially in a live game. If you look closer, this tell me that they're being content with the mediocre stats that Clayton can provide. They do this because he's a Veteran, he's safe, and someone who they're still hoping can provide plays for the Ravens.

While this is going on, what's happening to the likes of David Reed, Eron Riley, Justin Harper, Marcus Smith and Rodelin Anthony? They're riding the pine, and may never be able to live up to their true potential. Take Miles Austin for example. When the Cowboys traded for Roy E. Williams, where was he on the depth chart? Fighting with Kevin Ogletree and Sam Hurd for that number 3, number 4 spot? The Cowboys saw something in practice, so they tried him out. What did he do against the Chiefs? 250 recieving yards, 2 TD's even with a Safety over the top to help the Chiefs. All he needed was a chance, much like one of ours.

I don't like to bash my own Ravens players, so I'll stop. I just hope we see one of these younger players step up to the plate.
[/quote]

The key thing you said in that post was "The Cowboys saw soemthing in practice". The only guy that has shown anything in practice over the past couple Training Camp(base off media preception) is Harper. As we saw last season, when he got the chance to do something in game action, he couldn't produce consistently.

The coaches give most of these guy the opportunity to catch passes from Flacco in practice, and compete against the top CBs on the team. It's in those moments albeit limited, that those young guys have to shine. The only one that has really done something in recent camps is Harper and he has be rewarder by being one of the first reserves to see action in preseason and also being called up from the PS squad late in the season.

Now so far in camp, i've heard Harper really stepping up and performing well thus far. So i expect to see a lot of him in preseason to give him a chance to make the 53. I've also heard really good things about Smith, so it should be interesting to see him in preseason as well.

However when it's all said and done these guys have to perform when it counts. You can say Clayton is holding these guys back all you want, but if these young guys had shown a little more over the last 2 seasons, then the need for Stallworth wouldn't have been as high, the decision to draft Reed might not have been made.

At the end of the day, guys just have to step up. The Ravens now have a pro bowl caliber backup QB, so the young guys will get a chance to show what they got in preseason.

Who will step up and play there way onto that WR depth chart?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1281155941' post='446138']
The key thing you said in that post was "The Cowboys saw soemthing in practice". The only guy that has shown anything in practice over the past couple Training Camp(base off media preception) is Harper. As we saw last season, when he got the chance to do something in game action, he couldn't produce consistently.

The coaches give most of these guy the opportunity to catch passes from Flacco in practice, and compete against the top CBs on the team. It's in those moments albeit limited, that those young guys have to shine. The only one that has really done something in recent camps is Harper and he has be rewarder by being one of the first reserves to see action in preseason and also being called up from the PS squad late in the season.

Now so far in camp, i've heard Harper really stepping up and performing well thus far. So i expect to see a lot of him in preseason to give him a chance to make the 53. I've also heard really good things about Smith, so it should be interesting to see him in preseason as well.

However when it's all said and done these guys have to perform when it counts. You can say Clayton is holding these guys back all you want, but if these young guys had shown a little more over the last 2 seasons, then the need for Stallworth wouldn't have been as high, the decision to draft Reed might not have been made.

At the end of the day, guys just have to step up. The Ravens now have a pro bowl caliber backup QB, so the young guys will get a chance to show what they got in preseason.

Who will step up and play there way onto that WR depth chart?
[/quote]
It will certainly be interesting to see a starting worthy QB play this preseason. Watching Smith is like truly watching preseason, where as watching Bulger will be somewhat exciting. I'm actually looking forward to preseason for the first time in years. Just give me some Ravens football damnit!!! Wow, twisted tea is awesomesauce!

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

At least we have now reached a position where we aren't relying on an inconsistent player to be our game breaker in the passing game. Whilst the up-and-down nature of Clayton has annoyed me greatly, I'm more than happy with him still seeing the reps [i]if[/i] he can show me greater consistency.

You would have to think he is running out of chances, especially with our added depth in the receiving corps. Either way, the addition of Stallworth - combined with the likes of Harper, Smith, Riley, Reed etc showing promise - can only benefit our team.

In the past, we would have to live with inconsistency, due to our lack of proven depth. Now, players not pulling their weight will slide down the depth chart and see reps.

Hopefully this has dawned on Clayton - because he needs to work like he never has before, to develop his consistency as a receiver. Time will tell as to whether he can feature for this team.

[CapoRocky]

I think it will all boil down to how they perform in the preseason games. Training camps are important to develop crucial timing between the QB and his receivers, but the speed and intensity increases dramatically once the exhibition games begin in a few days. By the time the games start to count in September, the coaches will have plenty of time to watch both players in action and make an educated decision as to who starts and who gets to watch from the sidelines.

[Clutch Ravens]

I feel obliged to comment on this. Clayton's had ONE drop that plagues everyone's memories but, other than that, he isn't as bad as he's being made out to be.

Like others have said, I don't think we'll have a set Slot receiver. Clayton and Stallworth will likely be rotated depending on who's skill-set suits which situation. Both are completely different players at the same position and I'm thankful that we can even have a debate over who our best option is behind Boldin and Mason.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='I*Bleed*Purple' timestamp='1281153500' post='446116']
Apparently, that's not the case this year. I have seen several blogs, etc. saying that Harper is catching everything he should, and even some balls that most would call "uncatchable". He says he's done nothing but work on his hands. I was high on him last year. I hope he makes the team. Height, speed, and now hands? That would be awesome!
[/quote]

He looked really good in practice today at M&T. He caught everything thrown his way and climbed the ladder over two players to reel in a pass during the two-minute drill drill. Hope he translate to the pre-season and makes the final roster.

[Twoo]

As much as it pains me to say... Clayton will probably make the team. Not because he's an important player- but if Mason or Boldin go down then we have someone who is relatively polished and knows the system.

My guess on the WR roster...

Boldin
Mason
Stallworth
Clayton
Reed
Riley or Smith

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Twoo' timestamp='1281222200' post='446385']
As much as it pains me to say... Clayton will probably make the team. Not because he's an important player- but if Mason or Boldin go down then we have someone who is relatively polished and knows the system.

My guess on the WR roster...

Boldin
Mason
Stallworth
Clayton
Reed
Riley or Smith
[/quote]

After what I saw today, I'd say Harper is ahead of Reed, Riley and Smith. Still a lot of time for that to change though.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1281223044' post='446390']
After what I saw today, I'd say Harper is ahead of Reed, Riley and Smith. Still a lot of time for that to change though.
[/quote]
Yeah, that's what quite a few of my friends and family said today as well. I couldn't make it, but the reviews everyones giving me are high.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1281221461' post='446377']
He looked really good in practice today at M&T. He caught everything thrown his way and climbed the ladder over two players to reel in a pass during the two-minute drill drill. Hope he translate to the pre-season and makes the final roster.
[/quote]

I'm really steppin out on an edge making this statement, because it's still so early in camp and we are so deep at WR now, but i don't think there will be any way for the Ravens to keep Harper off the 53 man roster this year.

I haven't been out to any practices, but just from seeing highlights on tv, he looks a lot thicker, which would translate into srength. He already had decent speed and body control, created good seperation, his only problem was consistently catching the ball.

Now it seems he's worked his butt off to get better in that area. I can see Harper being a really good red zone option for the Ravens this season, before taking on a much larger role in the passing game next season.

Now like i said before, i'm steppin out on a edge with this post about Harper, being as though the preseason games haven't even started, but i just have that feeling about Harp this year.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1281223304' post='446392']
Yeah, that's what quite a few of my friends and family said today as well. I couldn't make it, but the reviews everyones giving me are high.
[/quote]

His catch down the sideline was spectacular. The guy has all the physical tools in my opinion, he just needs to cut down on concentration drops.

[lugierave]

[quote name='RAYvenFan20' timestamp='1279944761' post='436643']
stallworths speed alone will get him the #3 spot. we brought him in to stretch the field
[/quote]
Stallworth is what Flaco needed speed to go deep down field. Mason good hands and control, Boldin good hands runs after the catch with good speed. Clayton may have to fight for #4 What do you keep 5 WR's and 2 will be on special teams. Clayton can return kicks???

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1281223575' post='446398']
His catch down the sideline was spectacular. The guy has all the physical tools in my opinion, he just needs to cut down on concentration drops.
[/quote]
Once Harper gets out on the field, I think he could take Clayton's job by the end of the season.

[GuitarScott]

I like D-will better today than harper. He had better routes and was able to get seperation more. I actually watched those 7-7 drills a lot. Harper made some athletic plays, but so did every other WR out there. The only person with a bad practice was prince miller, who can't seem to catch a punt from a JUGS machine or a real leg. LOL

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='GuitarScott' timestamp='1281233287' post='446474']
[b]I like D-will better today than harper. He had better routes and was able to get seperation more.[/b] I actually watched those 7-7 drills a lot. Harper made some athletic plays, but so did every other WR out there. The only person with a bad practice was prince miller, who can't seem to catch a punt from a JUGS machine or a real leg. LOL
[/quote]
Pity D-Will won't stay healthy.

[-Truth-]

Say what you want about the man, but Clayton is looking impressive. Actually got separation on his first catch. We may have some real competition.