Could K.J. Gerad Be Great?

[TrueRaven1327]

im not saying that hes gonna be great but. i think he could. he was running with the 1st team in the otas and coach harbaugh praised him really well.how he ran with the receivers and had good coverage and played the ball well.he has the size at about6'1 and 190.

[lowrider]

Well anyone can be great. There's always that opportunity. Baltimoresun was high on him in training camp and OTA's last year. I still don't know what position he plays. CB or Safety? Well I hope he comes back healthy. It'll be tough for him to see the field anywhere but special teams (which is still very important).

Safety there is Hamlin, Nakamura (who I really like), Landry, Reed, Zibby. I have a feeling Landry might ask for more money than we are willing to give him next year so the spot might go to Nakamura or Zibby. I think Hamlin is one and done, and I think Reed will retire. So maybe KJ could get some playing time next year. He's a name that will be in the mix next year a lot. This year not as much.

[AwakenTheDemon]

As much as I like Gerard, we just haven't seen enough of him to honestly get a good grasp on his skill set. With that said, he did perform very well during the last offseason, and got to play a few games last year. I do not think he's ready just yet for significant playtime, but he has tremendous upside, in my opinion. As for his position, he was listed as a safety last year, and is listed as a cornerback this year lol Regardless though, the man can play both positions, and play them well (which is a huge help to have in the secondary).

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='21 July 2010 - 01:08 PM' timestamp='1279732102' post='435370']
As much as I like Gerard, we just haven't seen enough of him to honestly get a good grasp on his skill set. With that said, he did perform very well during the last offseason, and got to play a few games last year. I do not think he's ready just yet for significant playtime, but he has tremendous upside, in my opinion. As for his position, he was listed as a safety last year, and is listed as a cornerback this year lol Regardless though, the man can play both positions, and play them well (which is a huge help to have in the secondary).
[/quote]

Question? How can you say in one line that "we haven't seen enough from him to honestly get a good grasp on his skill set", Then in almost the next sentence say " I do not think he's ready just yet for significant playtime"?

If we haven't seen enough from him how do we know if he's ready or not? And honestly, who do you ever know is ready until they show on the field they are ready?

Coming out of the 2008 preseason, i'm sure many people were thinking Flacco wasn't ready to lead this team, but after that first game vs the Bengals that changed quick. Now I do agree that we haven't seen much from Gerard yet, but i wouldn't go as far to say he's not ready to play a significant role for us yet.

Both Gerard and Williams are in great positions right now imo. They have an opportunity to truely compete for playing time in camp. No one with the exception of Foxy has a CB spot locked up(not counting Fabe,Webb).

Guys like Harris and Fisher are really just insurance guys. I can't speak for the Ravens but i'm sure they would much rather have the youthful talent of Carey Williams and K.J Gerard to shine in camp and carry over into the season, rather then to have rely on 2 stop gap guys.

As for the OP's question. Yes i "think" he could be great. He has a great combination of size and speed. He can match up with many WRs either big or fast, or both. Having a (hopefully) improve pass rush will help everybody in the secondary. The only question for Gerard is does he realize he could be great.

[lowrider]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='21 July 2010 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1279752018' post='435535']
Question? How can you say in one line that "we haven't seen enough from him to honestly get a good grasp on his skill set", Then in almost the next sentence say " I do not think he's ready just yet for significant playtime"?

If we haven't seen enough from him how do we know if he's ready or not? And honestly, who do you ever know is ready until they show on the field they are ready?

Coming out of the 2008 preseason, i'm sure many people were thinking Flacco wasn't ready to lead this team, but after that first game vs the Bengals that changed quick. Now I do agree that we haven't seen much from Gerard yet, but i wouldn't go as far to say he's not ready to play a significant role for us yet.

Both Gerard and Williams are in great positions right now imo. They have an opportunity to truely compete for playing time in camp. No one with the exception of Foxy has a CB spot locked up(not counting Fabe,Webb).

Guys like Harris and Fisher are really just insurance guys. I can't speak for the Ravens but i'm sure they would much rather have the youthful talent of Carey Williams and K.J Gerard to shine in camp and carry over into the season, rather then to have rely on 2 stop gap guys.

As for the OP's question. Yes i "think" he could be great. He has a great combination of size and speed. He can match up with many WRs either big or fast, or both. Having a (hopefully) improve pass rush will help everybody in the secondary. The only question for Gerard is does he realize he could be great.
[/quote]
I see your point, it's a little different with Flacco. There was no one else to play but him at the time. And then he proved himself when the chance was given to him. It was out of a little luck, and the fact we invested a lot into him was a factor to us giving him more of a chance. Unlike Cary williams and KJ.

It's KJ's second season and even the coaching staff has put him in a set position to learn the position. We would be throwing him into the lions den, and that's not good for the kids confidence when he is this young. You don't bring up a 19 year old pitching prospect to the majors. Inexperience sometimes overrides talent and potiential. Performing well in OTA's and training camp is different than the real game. Ask Demetrius Williams.

I like Cary Williams and KJ too but when you have proven veterans who still play well and are more consistent, it's hard to say that our young guys are better than the veterans. I see your point of "well you haven't played them in the game so you can't tell". Are you willing to take that risk of throwing Cary Williams into a live NFL game considering last year the closest thing he got to a real game was the practice squad? A lot of risks man and every game of the season is important. Keep playing hard in special teams and eventually they will get their shot if they are good enough.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='lowrider' date='22 July 2010 - 10:47 AM' timestamp='1279810021' post='435763']
I see your point, it's a little different with Flacco. There was no one else to play but him at the time. And then he proved himself when the chance was given to him. It was out of a little luck, and the fact we invested a lot into him was a factor to us giving him more of a chance. Unlike Cary williams and KJ.

It's KJ's second season and even the coaching staff has put him in a set position to learn the position. We would be throwing him into the lions den, and that's not good for the kids confidence when he is this young. You don't bring up a 19 year old pitching prospect to the majors. Inexperience sometimes overrides talent and potiential. Performing well in OTA's and training camp is different than the real game. Ask Demetrius Williams.

I like Cary Williams and KJ too but when you have proven veterans who still play well and are more consistent, it's hard to say that our young guys are better than the veterans. I see your point of "well you haven't played them in the game so you can't tell". Are you willing to take that risk of throwing Cary Williams into a live NFL game considering last year the closest thing he got to a real game was the practice squad? A lot of risks man and every game of the season is important. Keep playing hard in special teams and eventually they will get their shot if they are good enough.
[/quote]

Well actually both Williams and Gerard had limtied snaps on defense last season, but i understand your point.

To be honest, if Cary and/or KJ, plays well in camp and preseason, i would have as must confidence in them as possible. Why? Because if they have played well enough to be on the field, starting roles or not, then that means they have either outplayed or played as well as those proven vets.

As far as throwing them into the Lions Den, ok. You said it yourself, OTAs and Camp is very much different then real game action, so how can you trust them in real game action without putting them in real game action? What are you gonna wait until we play a poor team that we should blow out, like the Browns, to give them a shot because you are confident we'll win?

Foxy and Carr, will be the top two guys going into camp, so the highest i see either KJ or Cary being is #2 or Nickle. It's not like you are throwing those guys out their against the best players in the league and asking them to be Revis.

I just get the feeling that people seem to think that just because you bring in a FA or two, that they are brought in to be starting or major contributors. That's not the case. I could be wrong, but i think that Harris and Fisher were brought in as insurance in case, guys like Williams and Gerard prove unable to having being contributors for this defense.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='21 July 2010 - 05:40 PM' timestamp='1279752018' post='435535']
Question? How can you say in one line that "we haven't seen enough from him to honestly get a good grasp on his skill set", Then in almost the next sentence say " I do not think he's ready just yet for significant playtime"?
[/quote]

It's simple, just because I said we haven't seen enough to get a "good grasp on his skill set", doesn't mean we haven't seen enough (or even heard enough coming out of OTA and camp) to come to the conclusion that he's just not ready to see a "significant amount of playtime". I really do not see what you're getting on my back about, it's simple.

Gerard made a splash in last season's offseason, when he made some nice plays against our offense. Yet, he then went on to play in one game last season, and notched only a tackle. Since then, there really hasn't been [i]any[/i] word on Gerard making any strides or improvement to his game (aside from him moving from Safety to Corner). So from what we've seen, no one can really say "he does this really well, but struggles with that". But since he hasn't made a splash again this offseason, or really even been talked about, I'm not ready to say the man is ready to see significant playtime when he's going up against veterans like Fisher, Harris, and Carr on the depth chart.

My statement was not as contradicting as you're trying to make it out to be.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='23 July 2010 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1279862113' post='436146']
It's simple, just because I said we haven't seen enough to get a "good grasp on his skill set", doesn't mean we haven't seen enough (or even heard enough coming out of OTA and camp) to come to the conclusion that he's just not ready to see a "significant amount of playtime". I really do not see what you're getting on my back about, it's simple.

Gerard made a splash in last season's offseason, when he made some nice plays against our offense. Yet, he then went on to play in one game last season, and notched only a tackle. Since then, there really hasn't been [i]any[/i] word on Gerard making any strides or improvement to his game (aside from him moving from Safety to Corner). So from what we've seen, no one can really say "he does this really well, but struggles with that". But since he hasn't made a splash again this offseason, or really even been talked about, I'm not ready to say the man is ready to see significant playtime when he's going up against veterans like Fisher, Harris, and Carr on the depth chart.

My statement was not as contradicting as you're trying to make it out to be.
[/quote]

Don't be so defensive. I just asked you a question that's all, i didn't intented to get on your back or make you look like you contradicted yourself. There was just something about your post that i didn't fully understand. So i asked a question and you explained it to me.

Now i don't neccessarily agree with your logic, but i understand your point of view much better now.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='23 July 2010 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1279863019' post='436153']
Don't be so defensive. I just asked you a question that's all, i didn't intented to get on your back or make you look like you contradicted yourself. There was just something about your post that i didn't fully understand. So i asked a question and you explained it to me.

Now i don't neccessarily agree with your logic, but i understand your point of view much better now.
[/quote]

I did not intend to sound defensive or upset, I apologize.. I'm just saying because we haven't seen enough to know what he is or isn't good at, doesn't mean we haven't seen enough to judge whether or not he's quite ready to see a good chunk of playtime. However, a major reason for that is also due to the fact that there are "proven" veterans ahead of him on the depth chart.

[Purple Nurple]

A.T.D. doesnt sleep.....ever. He's a machine, jerk.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' date='23 July 2010 - 12:48 AM' timestamp='1279864125' post='436163']
A.T.D. doesnt sleep.....ever. He's a machine, jerk.
[/quote]

I had to give you a +1 for that lol

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='23 July 2010 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1279863915' post='436162']
I did not intend to sound defensive or upset, I apologize.. I'm just saying because we haven't seen enough to know what he is or isn't good at, doesn't mean we haven't seen enough to judge whether or not he's quite ready to see a good chunk of playtime. However, a major reason for that is also due to the fact that there are "proven" veterans ahead of him on the depth chart.
[/quote]

See that last line is one that i don't fully understand. Other then Foxy and Carr, who is ahead of Gerard or Williams? No one imo. after the first 2 slots it's just a battle to see who can step up and help this team win.

Niether Harris nor Fisher are "proven" in the Ravens defensive system. Neither Harris nor Fisher have grantueed contracts, both guys came off the streets, so nothing is promised to them. They will have to compete just like the young guys at DB.

Also, i actually have heard positive things about Gerard's cornerback play in OTA's this year. I think the reason the Ravens didn't even attempt to draft a cornerback was because of K.J and Cary. SO if those guys play well enough in camp, i fully expect to see him get quality playing time this year

[Purple Nurple]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='23 July 2010 - 02:29 AM' timestamp='1279866572' post='436173']
i fully expect to see me get quality playing time this year
[/quote]

Good luck!

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' date='23 July 2010 - 02:32 AM' timestamp='1279866772' post='436174']
Good luck!
[/quote]
thanks i'll need that and a miracle.
But hey i might be better then walker lol

[Purple Nurple]

Aw, man. You can edit and it doesnt show up. It looks like I edited your post. Damn Mods and their super-powers. Curses.

BTW, Miracles is the best song in the history of man....ever


BACK ON TOPIC MAGGOTS!

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' date='23 July 2010 - 01:29 AM' timestamp='1279866572' post='436173']
See that last line is one that i don't fully understand. Other then Foxy and Carr, who is ahead of Gerard or Williams? No one imo. after the first 2 slots it's just a battle to see who can step up and help this team win.

[b]Niether Harris nor Fisher are "proven" in the Ravens defensive system. Neither Harris nor Fisher have grantueed contracts, both guys came off the streets, so nothing is promised to them. They will have to compete just like the young guys at DB.
[/b]
Also, i actually have heard positive things about Gerard's cornerback play in OTA's this year. I think the reason the Ravens didn't even attempt to draft a cornerback was because of K.J and Cary. SO if those guys play well enough in camp, i fully expect to see him get quality playing time this year
[/quote]

Fisher and Harris are more "proven" than Gerard at their position. I'm not talking system, I'm talking their ability to play their position. I'd love for you to please try to explain to me how a second year converted-safety playing corner is as proven at the position as two men in their 9th and 15th year playing THAT position (respectively). Foxy, Webb (when back), Fabs (when back), and Carr are all ahead of Gerard on the depth chart. There's a chance Williams will even be ahead of Gerard.

It matters not if Harris or Fisher have anything promised to them or not. The fact of the matter is that they have a much, much better chance (Harris depends largely on how his knee feels) of getting a higher spot of the depth chart than Gerard right now. So what if you've heard good things of K.J.'s corner play in OTAs? We heard the same thing last year, and he played in one game. I'm not saying Gerard isn't talented, like I said, he has tremendous upside. But right now, I do not feel he is ready for significant playtime. I never said any playtime, I'm talking, and have been talking, about starting or nickel playtime.

[lowrider]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Cary Williams and KJ can't be great players and that they don't have potiential. First of all, KJ was a rookie last year and even if a rookie is a first round draft pick, it takes either a lot of injuries or real exceptional play in practice to play in the games right away. So if KJ and Williams play well in training camp and preseason and show strides and seperation from everyone else in competition around him, then they will play. Hopefully these guys can be our future. And some veteran advice and leadership will definitely be good for both of them.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='23 July 2010 - 03:58 AM' timestamp='1279871932' post='436181']
Fisher and Harris are more "proven" than Gerard at their position. I'm not talking system, I'm talking their ability to play their position. I'd love for you to please try to explain to me how a second year converted-safety playing corner is as proven at the position as two men in their 9th and 15th year playing THAT position (respectively). Foxy, Webb (when back), Fabs (when back), and Carr are all ahead of Gerard on the depth chart. There's a chance Williams will even be ahead of Gerard.

It matters not if Harris or Fisher have anything promised to them or not. The fact of the matter is that they have a much, much better chance (Harris depends largely on how his knee feels) of getting a higher spot of the depth chart than Gerard right now. So what if you've heard good things of K.J.'s corner play in OTAs? We heard the same thing last year, and he played in one game. I'm not saying Gerard isn't talented, like I said, he has tremendous upside. But right now, I do not feel he is ready for significant playtime. I never said any playtime, I'm talking, and have been talking, about starting or nickel playtime.
[/quote]

When did i ever say that KJ was more proven or just as proven as anyone in the secondary? I simply said that neither Harris or Fisher are proven in our system. As we saw with Foxworth last season, playing cornerback for the Ravens is a lot different then playing cornerback for other teams and it takes time to adjust.

Now does that mean KJ or Cary are ahead of Harris and Fisher, just because they have a little more time in our system? no, like i've said countless times, after Foxy and Carr, nothing in our Conerback position is written.

Oh and for the record, KJ Gerard isn't an converted Safety, he came out of college as a cornerback, last season the Ravens wanted to switch him to Safety, but now he is back at his natural position.

You have me a bit confused. You made the initial comment about not hearing anything out of OTAs to lead you to believe that he's ready to have an "significant amount of playtime". However now that i mention something about hearing positive things about KJ Gerard coming out of OTA, it doesn't mean anything?

I'm not denying the fact that you don't think he's ready, nor am i trying to convince you that he is ready. I just feel that he and/or Williams has just as much opportunity to fill in that #2 or Nickle/Dickback role while Webb/Fabe gets to 100%, as anyone else on the roster right now. Are either of those guys ready? Who knows, thats why they practice and play the games.

Lastly, as for the whole being proven at the position thing. Well that helps sometimes, but then again sometimes it just helps to be more talented then the other guys you compete with. For example, both Frank Walker and Corey Ivy, have more experience then LD Webb, if given the choice who would you rather having play significant time in the secondary? Hell both Ivy and Walker have more experience and are more proven at the CB position then Williams and Gerard, but who did the Ravens decide to keep?

The Ravens are not financially committed to either Williams or Gerard, so bringing them back this year wasn't a must. The Ravens saw something in these 2 kids that made them wanna bring them back this year, that caused them not to take a shot at any CB in the draft or trade for a valuable starter. Am i saying that these two guys are the future, or are hands down the 2 guys that will get us through in the secondary until we get everyone back healthy? No, I just think both of these guys have a chance of a lifetime to show what they got in camp and claim a spot.