If You Could..

[BuckWilds]

The people talking about the business aspect of this have to ask themselves what Bisciotti and Ozzie would do since they are nearly the best in the world at what they do. I believe they'd see the value in keeping Ray for the remainder of his contract and developing existing players. It's not like the Ravens haven't been able to turn undrafted linebackers into great players...

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='05 July 2010 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1278390816' post='429693']
The people talking about the business aspect of this have to ask themselves what Bisciotti and Ozzie would do since they are nearly the best in the world at what they do. I believe they'd see the value in keeping Ray for the remainder of his contract and developing existing players. It's not like the Ravens haven't been able to turn undrafted linebackers into great players...
[/quote]

I really think that they would take Patrick Willis as they wouldn't be able to pass up the opportunity. What has he got already 3 pro bowl's and he's only 25? He is the best ILB in the game today and will get much much better.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='06 July 2010 - 12:41 AM' timestamp='1278391276' post='429696']
I really think that they would take Patrick Willis as they wouldn't be able to pass up the opportunity. What has he got already 3 pro bowl's and he's only 25? He is the best ILB in the game today and will get much much better.
[/quote]

So you're saying they'd discard Ray Lewis' legacy? I'm sorry, but in my opinion there are many very good linebackers and only one Ray Lewis. The gain you would get from Patrick Willis over the next best option is not worth redefining the face of the franchise in such a manner. Just my two cents, of course.

I understand that people see the, '[b]8 more great years[/b]' vs. '[b]2 more great years[/b]' as something tantalizing, but from the perspective of someone who would be in charge of guiding a franchise, it's not even remotely a question: You keep Ray for the duration of his contract.

[ed.s52]

I love Patrick Willis, and trust me seeing him at the game (not just on TV) is something special, but Ray is the soul of our team.

We are not just trading physical talent but the leadership and emotional presence Ray brings as well as what he means to our franchise.

He is the face of our franchise, we wouldn't trade him for anyone.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='Chi_Town_Raven' date='04 July 2010 - 05:50 PM' timestamp='1278280224' post='429382']
Look at Emmit Smith, he played with Arizona, but still loves the Cowboys. [/quote]

Completely irrelevant example as Smith was released by Dallas and then signed with the Cardinals.

[quote]This is a business, and either way if the Ravens passed up the would-be trade, they would be the entire laughing stock of the NFL. [/quote]

So if the Colts didn't trade Manning for Aaron Rogers, they would be the laughing stock of the NFL?

The above analogy makes sense to me as, last time I checked, Ray Lewis led the entire AFC in tackles last year, while Manning was second in the NFL in pass yards.

Ray is far from some dead-weight that we keep around for nostalgic purposes, he is still one of the more productive defensive players in the entire league statistically and that's not even taking into account his intangibles which, arguably, compel the players around him to form an elite unit year after year.

If we were to factor those leadership abilities into play then Ray is, arguably, a more valuable football player than Willis for the Baltimore Ravens in 2010, which is key as the franchise is clearly preparing for a Super Bowl run right now and not looking to bring in a stellar contributor for years to come at the expense of a 2011 Super Bowl.

[lowrider]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='06 July 2010 - 12:41 AM' timestamp='1278391276' post='429696']
I really think that they would take Patrick Willis as they wouldn't be able to pass up the opportunity. What has he got already 3 pro bowl's and he's only 25? He is the best ILB in the game today and will get much much better.
[/quote]
I feel you on this. This is kind of silly to say we would rather have a guy who is on the decline just because he is the soul of our team. I think our team will be ok with Patrick Willis as the soul of our team.

I would feel absolutely terrible for doing it, but NFL is a business. Just like Ray was saying and doing when he was shopping around for other teams in free agency. I mean its a jerk move but in the end both the player and the team need to do what is best for themselves. Especially if we are getting a deal like that. Willis for Ray? What a silly trade.

[RayZ27]

That is hard. Willis is young and is like Ray Ray when Ray has a legacy in Baltimore. I don't really know.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='Ravnet' date='06 July 2010 - 02:27 AM' timestamp='1278401272' post='429723']
[b]Completely irrelevant example as Smith was released by Dallas and then signed with the Cardinals.[/b]



So if the Colts didn't trade Manning for Aaron Rogers, they would be the laughing stock of the NFL?

The above analogy makes sense to me as, last time I checked, Ray Lewis led the entire AFC in tackles last year, while Manning was second in the NFL in pass yards.

Ray is far from some dead-weight that we keep around for nostalgic purposes, he is still one of the more productive defensive players in the entire league statistically and that's not even taking into account his intangibles which, arguably, compel the players around him to form an elite unit year after year.

If we were to factor those leadership abilities into play then Ray is, arguably, a more valuable football player than Willis for the Baltimore Ravens in 2010, which is key as the franchise is clearly preparing for a Super Bowl run right now and not looking to bring in a stellar contributor for years to come at the expense of a 2011 Super Bowl.
[/quote]

What? Is being released different (from an emotional standpoint) from being traded? His point was that great players, even HoF players, often don't play with one team their entire career. Most of the time they don't resent being traded or released because they realize it's a business.

The logical move would be to trade Ray. But I think he means too much to the team and the fans to trade him. The Ravens organization would lose a lot of fan support by doing so. Ray is here to stay for as long as he wants.

[lowrider]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' date='06 July 2010 - 09:00 AM' timestamp='1278421210' post='429739']
The logical move would be to trade Ray. But I think he means too much to the team and the fans to trade him. The Ravens organization would lose a lot of fan support by doing so. Ray is here to stay for as long as he wants.
[/quote]
You really think that we would lose fan support for getting rid of Ray? I mean fans would be pissed, but people need to understand, Ray Lewis is going to not be a Raven at some point. There will be life after Ray. And if we can improve our team with a great leader and a great kid I don't fully understand why everyone would stop supporting the Ravens.

We have been loyal to Ray and we are overpaying him for these final years that he is playing, but if we could improve our team with the best MLB in the game right now, I would be ok with that.

[ed.s52]

How are we overpaying him?

If he took a contract anywhere else when he was a free agent, he would be getting a lot more dough, but settled for a smaller contract in Baltimore. Why? He is still dominant.

He lead the AFC in tackles and still is the best player on our defense (maybe besides a healthy Reed). He is not being overpayed at all.

[lowrider]

[quote name='ed.s52' date='06 July 2010 - 02:17 PM' timestamp='1278440232' post='429842']
How are we overpaying him?

If he took a contract anywhere else when he was a free agent, he would be getting a lot more dough, but settled for a smaller contract in Baltimore. Why? He is still dominant.

He lead the AFC in tackles and still is the best player on our defense (maybe besides a healthy Reed). He is not being overpayed at all.
[/quote]
No way. We are paying 7 million dollars a year for him for the first 3 years of his contract. Then he gets paid roughly 5 million dollars after that, basically until he retires. He signed with the Ravens because no one gave him any decent contracts. And I think that he is more valuable with the Ravens with anyone else. And he is definitely still a very good linebacker in the league and huge for the Ravens. But his coverage skills isn't what it used to be, he isn't as fast as he once was at getting to the qb. But he is still very very good. I think he is a great player still, but he isn't what he used to be and 7 million dollars a year is a lot for someone after his prime and getting worse.

But when we are comparing, the best linebacker in the league who is only going to get better, to a linebacker who is on the decline then I would take the linebacker who is only going to get better. I'm not saying Lewis isn't great, because when someone says best defensive player of all time I say Ray Lewis, but I think our team would be better with Patrick Willis. I would say the same thing if you asked me who would I rather have Anquan Boldin or Andre Johnson. I would be like I love Boldin but Johnson is just better right now.

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='05 July 2010 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1278392083' post='429698']
So you're saying they'd discard Ray Lewis' legacy? I'm sorry, but in my opinion there are many very good linebackers and only one Ray Lewis. The gain you would get from Patrick Willis over the next best option is not worth redefining the face of the franchise in such a manner. Just my two cents, of course.

I understand that people see the, '[b]8 more great years[/b]' vs. '[b]2 more great years[/b]' as something tantalizing, but from the perspective of someone who would be in charge of guiding a franchise, it's not even remotely a question: You keep Ray for the duration of his contract.
[/quote]

The man has already built his legacy here in Baltimore with all his accolades he has already collected, trading him wouldn't take away his legacy. In fact I think if Ray was traded out of this organization most all Ravens fans would still preach Ray Lewis as you can't just forget about the things he's done in the league over his career. I still think the front office would go through with it.

[XxSizzleXx]

If we had Patrick Willis as our MLB we would be the best D in the league.

[ed.s52]

Are we not already?

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='ed.s52' date='06 July 2010 - 02:16 PM' timestamp='1278447414' post='429883']
Are we not already?
[/quote]

Unfortunately no team can say they have the best D as there is not 1 teams D that stands out above all the rest. We would definitively be the best D with P Willis.

[ed.s52]

The best D is arguable, but I would argue the Ravens not only based on homerism but personell-wise.

Just passing-wise, Jets all day, but overall I'll take the Ravens.

[GTRavens]

Come on people. Willis is so much younger than Lewis and probably better already, and that gap will only widen in a year.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='06 July 2010 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1278446295' post='429877']
If we had Patrick Willis as our MLB we would be the best D in the league.
[/quote]
Just like the 'Niners?

[Romo Ravens]

Ray Lewis. We'll probably have him for 3-4 more years, then who says we can't find our own Willis in a future draft? I'd take Ray anyday of the week.

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='06 July 2010 - 05:08 PM' timestamp='1278457728' post='429929']
Just like the 'Niners?
[/quote]

EXACTLY like the 49ers.

One person doesn't make up the team, if Willis had the supporting cast that Lewis has then it wouldn't be a shocker.

Also instead of throwing out smart remarks why don't you answer the Topic question.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='06 July 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1278467078' post='429945']
EXACTLY like the 49ers.

One person doesn't make up the team, if Willis had the supporting cast that Lewis has then it wouldn't be a shocker.

Also instead of throwing out smart remarks why don't you answer the Topic question.
[/quote]

Smart remarks are fun and enjoyable, you can't hate on that Mister Sizzle.

And on a side note, The Niners D is actually pretty beastly, not on our level but pretty good. Especially if Mays performs and Clements returns to his former domination, they will be pretty ferocious.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ed.s52' date='06 July 2010 - 11:25 PM' timestamp='1278473150' post='429971']
Smart remarks are fun and enjoyable, you can't hate on that Mister Sizzle.

And on a side note, The Niners D is actually pretty beastly, not on our level but pretty good. [b]Especially if Mays performs and Clements returns to his former domination, they will be pretty ferocious.[/b]
[/quote]

Pretty big "ifs" but I agree the 9ers D is pretty good. They have a number of young, talented players.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='06 July 2010 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1278481138' post='429997']
Pretty big "ifs" but I agree the 9ers D is pretty good. They have a number of young, talented players.
[/quote]

Yea I know, but my point was they are very good without those ifs and straight beastly with them.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='06 July 2010 - 08:44 PM' timestamp='1278467078' post='429945']
EXACTLY like the 49ers.

One person doesn't make up the team, [b]if Willis had the supporting cast that Lewis has then it wouldn't be a shocker.[/b]
[/quote]

Because in the past Ray's supporting cast members have always gone on to enjoy the same raging success for other teams.

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='07 July 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1278488100' post='430020']
Because in the past Ray's supporting cast members have always gone on to enjoy the same raging success for other teams.
[/quote]

There are differences though as Ray and Willis are both franchise players, how many of the people that left would you call franchise players...

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='07 July 2010 - 03:02 AM' timestamp='1278489748' post='430028']
There are differences though as Ray and Willis are both franchise players, how many of the people that left would you call franchise players...
[/quote]

Ravens defensive players are always highly sought after free agents, but they're never as good when they leave. Even with the last years #1 D, Leonhard, Douglas and Scott didn't play as well as they did here. That and the 49ers D is still ranked 15th.

[Ravenmore74]

I don't think Willis is ever going to be nominated for the Hall of fame. Besides, I don't see a weakness in Ray's step being the way he tackled Sproles in the Charger game.

[lowrider]

[quote name='Ravenmore74' date='07 July 2010 - 11:23 AM' timestamp='1278516224' post='430091']
I don't think Willis is ever going to be nominated for the Hall of fame. Besides, I don't see a weakness in Ray's step being the way he tackled Sproles in the Charger game.
[/quote]
Assuming Willis keeps up his play barring injuries, he will be nominated for the Hall of Fame. And there is a reason why the Chargers running game was one of the worst in the league. Ray is great but right now Willis is better. One tackle on a 5'6" running back isn't going to make me think Ray hasn't lost a step. Mentally Ray is still great. But physically he isn't the same.

[flynismo]

Willis can be replaced. Ray cant.

[Dan The Man Ravens #1 Fan]

[quote name='lowrider' date='07 July 2010 - 11:48 AM' timestamp='1278517732' post='430102']
Assuming Willis keeps up his play barring injuries, he will be nominated for the Hall of Fame. And there is a reason why the Chargers running game was one of the worst in the league. Ray is great but right now Willis is better. One tackle on a 5'6" running back isn't going to make me think Ray hasn't lost a step. Mentally Ray is still great. But physically he isn't the same.
[/quote]

Fifth in the entire league in tackles doesnt sound like a man who has lost a step. Willis was first but only by 18 tackles. He also only had 1 more sack. It is a no brainer for me. Have to go with the man who has carried this team for so many years.