Why The Ravens Won't Make The Playoffs In 2008

[LilyRaven]

All for the sake of healthy debate, m'dear.

Which I think I accomplished, judging from these responses.

Cool, healthy debate we can agree on. Perhaps it's due to entirely too much depressing news, but the hope for a better year is currently one of the few bright spots.

"Too low they build who build beneath the stars." - Edward Young, English poet.

[neepo13]

fans can never be too optimistic i dont believe in that. we should go into every season thinking super bowl just like the players. its no different.

I agree, if you think negative bad things happen.

[neepo13]

All for the sake of healthy debate, m'dear.

Which I think I accomplished, judging from these responses.

I just find it difficult to listen to fans of the team predicting failure. Its bad enough that no one outside Raven Nation believes we can do it. Be optimistic and prepare for the worst but for goodness sake BELIEVE IN THEM. They will never make it if we dont. And if they still fall short and our hearts are broken like they were this year, oh well. Thats apart of being a fan. Going through the heartbreak makes you appreciate the good times that much more.

[noy]

but isn't that the point, there are fans that are heart broken and then there are those that are just disappointed. Its the difference between those hardcore fans and those realistic fans. I'm a realistic fan, I know there is a difference between experience and age. Experience measures how many significant situation a person is put in, age is the physical toll taken on ones body. Dont get me wrong, I still know that with greater age comes a likelihood of experience but sometimes age can be so severe that experience can no longer cut it.

Ray seems to only be slowing down a little, but the rest are letting age get the better of them. You guys are talking of years as if they're short (last year we did this, a couple of years ago we did that etc) I can tell you now that next season will show a much more aged defense, an experienced but aged defense. This is probably why I agree with this topic, we may see a better year because of coaching, but I have doubts about making the playoffs, especially with how much younger and faster the rest of the division is.

[theFRANCHISE]

I just find it difficult to listen to fans of the team predicting failure. Its bad enough that no one outside Raven Nation believes we can do it. Be optimistic and prepare for the worst but for goodness sake BELIEVE IN THEM. They will never make it if we dont. And if they still fall short and our hearts are broken like they were this year, oh well. Thats apart of being a fan. Going through the heartbreak makes you appreciate the good times that much more.

Keep in mind, though, I'm not actually making a PREDICTION with the things I said to start the thread.

It's just to keep in mind the obstacles that the team will face on the road to Super Bowl XLIII.

I mean, believe me, I'm all for being optimistic, and best believe I'll be ready with my Ravens gear on opening day of PRESEASON and my Ray Lewis dance down pat for touchdowns. And I fully believe in the team's ability to fight through adversity, as many of my responses at the start of the losing streak this past season showed.

In fact, if anything, I was one of the more optimistic posters when there was all this negativity surrounding the team and its performance. But I just started the thread to keep things interesting, because we both know fully well that having nothing but optimistic threads would kill discussion and make things repetitive.

Just thought I'd break from the norm for once, y'know?

[PuRock]

Keep in mind, though, I'm not actually making a PREDICTION with the things I said to start the thread.

It's just to keep in mind the obstacles that the team will face on the road to Super Bowl XLIII.

I mean, believe me, I'm all for being optimistic, and best believe I'll be ready with my Ravens gear on opening day of PRESEASON and my Ray Lewis dance down pat for touchdowns. And I fully believe in the team's ability to fight through adversity, as many of my responses at the start of the losing streak this past season showed.

In fact, if anything, I was one of the more optimistic posters when there was all this negativity surrounding the team and its performance. But I just started the thread to keep things interesting, because we both know fully well that having nothing but optimistic threads would kill discussion and make things repetitive.

Just thought I'd break from the norm for once, y'know?

I hear ya. Just too much Ravens pride around here, more about boasting, less about fretting. Nobody wants to think about not making the playoffs next year, especially after the year we just had. But your right, a few points here and there, we can surely miss the playoff. Any given sunday, can even go, any given season.

[MJSMOOTH]

Dang yo ur focus on the negative make me feels so like the ravens will go 0- 16 man!!!

[USF BULLS RAVEN]

I live in Tampa. The Bucs were expected to finish slightly better than last year. Doh!

theFRANCHISE, what is the debate about? It seems as if you were throwing out generalizations about baltimoreravens.com message board posters. Listing your points and waiting for an opposing point of view is one thing, but emptying a half full glass is purloining from our emotional stock pile heading into the draft, camp, and 2008 season. I know your aim, but I think it was thrown off in translation.

This season was a learning experience for the Ravens fans, players, and personnel. The 2006 season saw us finish 13-3 with a loss to Indy (of all teams...) and the 2007 season looked bright. I think all Ravens fans will approach the 2008 season a bit differently than before, but they will still wear their purple and black on Sunday.

Objective POV:

Getting deeper on defense, consistent play from our starting QB, solidifying our OL (Ogden annual tradition), and lets face it, some big passing plays.

Subjective POV:

The Ravens D will never allow back-to- back seasons like '07. They will channel the Viking God of thunder and crush the enemy. Our O will benefit from the biggest change in a decade and punch opposing Ds in the nose.

Go Ravens!

[LilyRaven]

Just thought I'd break from the norm for once, y'know?

Fair enough and I see your point. It's my guess you're tired of reckless optimism every bit as much as I'm tired of any kind of pessimism. Believe me, I am THE queen of near fatalistic realism (anyone else sick of the isms yet?) but for some reason right now I've had my fill. Call it denial, delusions, naivety, what have you, but I'm keeping my happy little bubble for now.

Don't worry, when it pops I'll keep it to myself.

Balance is vital however, so thank you for maintaining the zen of all this... even if you didn't know you were doing it.

[Ravens_Pwn12]

why dont you just think postive instead of being negitive

[wilshade]

Champions overcome adversity.

The 2000 version of the Ravens had a large amount of adversity heaped upon them . . . Ray's trials, a quarter of a season without a touchdown, QB changes in mid-season, etc, etc, etc. But, they overcame it all and won a Super Bowl.

Overcome the injuries from last year. Overcome the QB issues. Overcome the ravages of time. Overcome the inexperience of the young guys. Overcome the bad officiating. Overcome the built up frustrations. Overcome. Overcome. Overcome.

There is no uber team in the AFC North. A 10-6 record might just gain a division championship.

Overcome.

[Raven07]

and in which True Champions Believe they can do anything and everything, no feat is too big or too small for them to take on and accomplish. and this upcoming season only further's that point forward even more so. IF ALL the players and all the coaches believe that we can do it and get it done well....the sky is the limit as to the potential of this team.

i mean because did anyone even think once that our ravens would go from a 6-10 team one season then the following season and in 1 year, turn everything around and be 13-3 and a superbowl contender?..i would hardly think so....So Have faith

ANYTHING can and WILL happen.

[Mazda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkJWx7ya8eE

Hey, is this a good highlight video?

[jackb6]

good thing this topic was started. when we go 8-8 or worse this upcoming season..alot of people on this board are going to crying we made a bad hire as HC and blahblahblah. this is the NFL where you have to be on top of your everyweek..with a tough, tough, tough schedule this upcoming season...not to mention two playoff contenders in are division! people need to be more openminded and just look forward to a great season of change and improvement! and who knows..maybe..just maybe..we can make a decent run.

[MKdave]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkJWx7ya8eE

Hey, is this a good highlight video?

I was the first view, Yay!

It was good, apart than the minute of rain at the beggining Other than that, it was pretty cool!

[Mazda]

Lol, thx, I made another one called King Kong. Ill tell you when its ready.

Ok, now its ready,

NVM, I gotta fix the King Kong one

[theFRANCHISE]

Hmm...seeing as how the thread's extended to three pages already in less than 24 hours, I'd say my job is done.

[MKdave]

Hmm...seeing as how the thread's extended to three pages already in less than 24 hours, I'd say my job is done.

I wouldnt...

I kinda wanted to fire back at some of those points just for the sake of debate, but oh well.

What happened to the fighting talk my man?

[smashmouth82]

Lets take it one step at a time. I aggree the odds are against up making the playoffs next year, but it would be a step in the right direction if we had at least a winning season. I think this is more plausable then a playoff burth. I predict we will go 10-6 next year. That would be a huge morale boost for the team and may lead to the playoffs in 2010 or maybe a superbowl? Just like Billick did back in 2000.

although i am one who gets sick of talking about moral victories, in this case there would be some. though everything is lining up well, and players will hopefully be healthy, this is a completely new coaching staff. throw last year's record out the window and that's still a big obstacle to hurdle! a whole new coaching staff implements a whole new system which in turn brings a whole new attitude and style of play.

this is the beginning of a whole new era for the ravens and although losing sucks no matter how you look at it, making the playoffs would be a positive step in the right direction. it would also put a lot of fans who are still silently, in their own minds, second guessing the harbaugh hiring at ease knowing he was the right man after-all.

[Mazda]

..................

[theFRANCHISE]

What happened to the fighting talk my man?

Well, some people (well, A LOT of people) got mad 'cause they kinda missed the point of the thread, and so I guess I'll get something to eat and come back later and do my thing...

[MKdave]

Well, some people (well, A LOT of people) got mad 'cause they kinda missed the point of the thread, and so I guess I'll get something to eat and come back later and do my thing...

Be gentle...

[Raven07]

despite how the upcoming season will turn out, we must hold fast and hold strong...as loyal fans to this team and organization...persistance is key and determination is a key element in which will serve many of us well throughout the hard times into the Good.....so (like i said throughout the course of this past season)......Keep the faith alive and the flame burning deep inside. People may suggest what they THINK may happen and offer their oppinion. but in all honesty.....none of us have any clue of how they will anything will turn out for the team in the end......we all just have to wait and see thats all us as fans can do is sit and watch everything unfold.....

[neepo13]

but isn't that the point, there are fans that are heart broken and then there are those that are just disappointed. Its the difference between those hardcore fans and those realistic fans. I'm a realistic fan, I know there is a difference between experience and age. Experience measures how many significant situation a person is put in, age is the physical toll taken on ones body. Dont get me wrong, I still know that with greater age comes a likelihood of experience but sometimes age can be so severe that experience can no longer cut it.

Ray seems to only be slowing down a little, but the rest are letting age get the better of them. You guys are talking of years as if they're short (last year we did this, a couple of years ago we did that etc) I can tell you now that next season will show a much more aged defense, an experienced but aged defense. This is probably why I agree with this topic, we may see a better year because of coaching, but I have doubts about making the playoffs, especially with how much younger and faster the rest of the division is.

I disagree. I think some people listen to the national medie way to much. More then half our defensive starters are under the age of 30, which I suppose is young. We may have that problem at CB because Roller and McCalister are getting up there but 3 of our 4 starting linebackers are 25,26, and 27. Two of our starting defense lineman are on the lower side of 25, Ngata and Edwards, and our safties are like 24 and 29. The defense as a whole is not old at all. I think some people only believe it is because Ray Lewis is 33.

[neepo13]

Keep in mind, though, I'm not actually making a PREDICTION with the things I said to start the thread.

It's just to keep in mind the obstacles that the team will face on the road to Super Bowl XLIII.

I mean, believe me, I'm all for being optimistic, and best believe I'll be ready with my Ravens gear on opening day of PRESEASON and my Ray Lewis dance down pat for touchdowns. And I fully believe in the team's ability to fight through adversity, as many of my responses at the start of the losing streak this past season showed.

In fact, if anything, I was one of the more optimistic posters when there was all this negativity surrounding the team and its performance. But I just started the thread to keep things interesting, because we both know fully well that having nothing but optimistic threads would kill discussion and make things repetitive.

Just thought I'd break from the norm for once, y'know?

I can understand that.

[Mazda]

Ray Lewis is NOT declining. He is better now than most LBs in THEIR prime. He will retire because he WANTS to, not because he has to.

[CharmCitysKing69]

However, the reality is, outside of the 2007 Patriots and the 1972 Dolphins, the odds of going undefeated in the regular season and reaching the Super Bowl are lower than winning the lottery.

hahaha aint that the truth

[theFRANCHISE]

Alright, and now, for the sake of the debate, to respond to MKdave's points...('cause, y'know, you actually took the time to respond to mine...LOL)

For the record, when I quoted each point, I also edited them down to their core to save space.

Here is my retort.

--the law of averages. Last year, as we all know, we were crippled by injury after injury after injury. you rarely see such a seson back-to-back for the same team, and it would be very surprising to see the decimation happen to the same position(DB, one of the most crucial).

I can agree that the law of averages DOES work in the Ravens' favor. However, ask any team, and the law is NOT an automatic pass from consecutive losing seasons. The Patriots had a decimated secondary from 2003-2005, but were able to win. On the other side of the W/L spectrum, however, the Raiders have had FIVE consecutive losing seasons since losing the Super Bowl in 2003, without injuries being an excuse, for the most part. So we'll see which side of that coin the Ravens get next season.

--Bonafide Offensive coordinator

Granted, Cam Cameron didn't do wonders with Miami last year. But maybe he's just not head coach material, like brian billick.

I can agree with you that Cam Cameron can revamp this offense with the talent available, which is similar to the roster he had at his disposal in San Diego. And I'm glad you brought up the same point that I had brought up in choosing Cameron over Philadelphia's Pat Shumur. However, as I pointed out before, an immediate turnaround isn't guaranteed. After all, it took Cameron's offense two seasons before it was able to carry the team to a playoff berth. HOWEVER...the concession I'll give Cameron's coaching is that it was able to improve the offense to where the team was able to go from a 5-11 record the season BEFORE his arrival, to 8-8 in his first season.

--ratio of veteran decline to younger player growth should be favorable With the exception of steve McNair, and possibly Jonathon Ogden(despite making the pro bowl) none of our key players are in that Evander hollyfield stage, where they've Just become an emmbarrasment, and it's kind of sad they've yet to retire. What I'm saying is, none of our Veterans should have a major drop off in production. The younger players should, however, continue to improve rapidly, and certainly at a greater pace than that of our veterans' decline. We will continue to get better, despite our 'age issue'

I WANT to agree with that, but again, it's one of those variables that are harder to predict because it's similar to the law of averages theory. I agree that the team WILL improve, particularly towards the end of the season, but it's hard to say whether the younger guys will be able to hit the ground running at the start of the season, even when they're fresh.

--The sheer disgrace of last season We have a very passionate team, and none of them will want to take beatings they received last year lying down. If the new coach is any good at all, he will be able to channel the anger from last years dissapointment into constuctive aggression. this will mean bigger hits from the 'D', and more determination from the Offense.

This one, I can wholeheartedly agree with. The team's emotion has been its motivating factor, as evident in their lackluster performances after the Patriots game, where they couldn't find a reason to play harder anymore. They were emotionally spent after taking arguably the best team in football to its limit and somehow coming up short. As I said in my article about John Harbaugh, the will to win is sometimes the only difference between victory or defeat at the final whistle.

--high draft pick we can use this years High draft pick not only to add quality to the roster, but to motivate the squad.

I believe high draft picks (in terms of draft order, not the players themselves) are overrated. This team is notorious for finding diamonds in the rough, and has been praised by Sports Illustrated's Peter King for having arguably the best personnel team in the business. Where the Ravens pick in the draft doesn't matter, so long as they have the right people making those decisions, period.

--low cap room I know this sounds like a weird one, but hear me out. With our limited cap room, we simply cannot afford to go out and spend big on a superstar type player in the free agency. this can undoubtedly seem like a bad thing. But it can also be seen as a blessing in disguise. If we were to go out and fork over a fortune for a big name player, then that player would more likely demand more than his fair share of Passes/ carries / catches / playing time.

Though I see your point in how bringing in one less superstar would improve team unity, I still think this organization has done a nice job of handling its superstars. Even though there is a perceived discipline problem, it's never been considered a problem when the team's been winning games, period. As I've said before, "winning cures everything." I believe that the low cap room DOES force the organization to make an effort to retain its core players. However, on the other side of the coin, that also means making difficult decisions for the future, such as cutting players for financial reasons, or making changes on the roster that are risky and uncertain. This is one of those aspects that gives general managers nightmares, and it has plenty of carryover into the following season.

--Sophmore slump for Tomlin? OK, not a cliche overused on coaches, but still, the same principles apply. he had an impressive rookie year,but the pressure and expectation may take it's toll on Tomlin. And with steelers out of the picture, the AFC north would be wide open.

That about does it for me, tell me what you think.(I admit, I was scratching the bottom of the barrel a bit with that tomlin thing...)

Although I'm HOPING that Mike Tomlin does indeed suffer a sophomore slump, his work ethic simply won't allow him to. I'm familiar with his personal background a bit and having been a former student of his uncle, I know that Tomlin is very old-school when it comes to practices. He is meticulous with his game planning, and that's the reason why the Rooneys look like geniuses for taking a chance on him. He's a student of Jon Gruden, and he knows how to get his players to respond, which is why I wouldn't bet on the Steelers lying down next season. At the same time, I WANT to count the Bengals out, but they always seem to be the sleeper team when that happens. And the Browns are on a mission after missing the playoffs, so divisional games in the AFC North, once again, are a toss-up.

[Ravens Madness]

Is it arrogance to believe in one's self, and strive for the best??? I think not!!!

I want to stress that this same team went 13-3 just two years ago. I think what they lacked this last year was direction, and determination -- that and all the unfortunate injuries did us in I think. JMHO.

My feelings, exactly.

So again, I say... Why Not?

[noy]

I disagree. I think some people listen to the national medie way to much. More then half our defensive starters are under the age of 30, which I suppose is young. We may have that problem at CB because Roller and McCalister are getting up there but 3 of our 4 starting linebackers are 25,26, and 27. Two of our starting defense lineman are on the lower side of 25, Ngata and Edwards, and our safties are like 24 and 29. The defense as a whole is not old at all. I think some people only believe it is because Ray Lewis is 33.

The media has nothing to do with it, it's fact. Why are you trying to list only the young players? You need to provide everyone, as I am about to do. The definition of an aged athlete is over 30, and the greater the chance that experience wont be able to keep up with the physical factors of becoming 30+.

Kelly Gregg - Still a machine, as he showed us this year, but at 31 and aging he has an increased chance of injury and of decreasing in skill.

Trevor Pryce - Do I really need to explain this one? Nasty tackle, but clearly age is catching up with him injury wise.

Haloti Ngata - Our future at the defensive line, really got pressure on qb's this year and aided in getting us that top run defense rank. Nice and young.

Terrell Suggs - Did quite well this season, and is young, another positive for the defense.

Bart Scott - Somewhat of a down season, making me believe that Adalius Thomas did more for this team than what we thought. Kind of ironic that Vrabel started becoming a sack master once Adalius came by.

Jarrett Johnson - Had his best year this year, but still wasn't spectacular. He didn't bring that explosiveness like we saw with rookie Barnes.

Dawan Landry - Not as good as last year, as our pass rank speaks for itself. Of course, a lot of that can be credited to corner problems, but cmon, there were so many big plays made on us by no name QB's. We were the reason Kellen Clemens got the look to be the starter for the Jets, we were the reason Kurt Warner was given a chance to redeem himself.

Ed Reed - Mr. Risky, i love him, but sometimes he leaves me cursing. He's still an amazing safety but the risks can leave him in the dust against amazing WR's. Plus he's turning 30, I pray it doesn't slow him down.

I didn't even mention Rolle or McAlister because they speak for themselves (at least Rolle does). He hasn't been great since the Titans, and McAlister no longer seems to be the shutdown corner he used to be. It's AGE that has affected them and it's a scary thought.

As for Ray...

Ray Lewis is NOT declining. He is better now than most LBs in THEIR prime. He will retire because he WANTS to, not because he has to.

Actually he is declining....when we compare him to HIMSELF. Back in his prime he was AMAZING, but of course we cant hold him to be like that at his age. I totally agree with you, he's still a top notch linebacker and I wouldn't want anyone else in his position. I'm simple stating he is showing signs of slowing down..SLIGHTLY. It's not that big of a deal because he's still better than 90% of linebackers out there. But he's my proof, age factors into an athletes ability to be good at his position.

All that is why i think the playoffs may be a wishful thought right now. I dont see any team in our division with that much of an age problem. I think it's fantastic that our offense is young, besides Mason, but Mason is still clutch. It looks like a bright future for the offense of the Ravens, as for the defense, I can only hope they can hold out for as long as possible.

To end, I'm skeptical about next year (it's too soon to think big), but I am still hopeful.