Should We Go Back To Organized Chaos?

[Milton145]

I was looking back at the 2008 highlights where we used this system and I think it worked pretty well IMO. Our players made the system work with bringing the heat from this blitz package in passing situations (though the better QBs we faced got a hold of it it seems) and we ended up being the #2 defense in the league.

I think with the players we have now we can still make it work since we have Haloti-Cody clearing the way in the middle for our linebackers, while we can have speed coming off the edge with Suggs and Kindle and on extra Safety (preferably Landry) to bring extra pressure. Throw in an extra corner (we do have fast corners) or extra LB or whatever I think we can duplicate or possibly surpass our 2008 success.

Either bring all the pressure with the Safety included or have him line up as a linebacker then drop him back (Zibby if Reed is still out) and help double cover the outside receiver like here at 1:00: [url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80de0c89/Wild-Card-Ravens-defense"]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80de0c89/Wild-Card-Ravens-defense[/url]

We don't really face any Mannings, or Favres, or Rivers, or Rodgers this year so it COULD work. Though when the 2nd time we face the Steelers we probably would need to go a more coverage based gameplan if Ben is the starter.

Anyway, it's just an opinion so let me know what you think.

[Alexir]

It's Mattison's system now not Rex's but we will see a lot more pressure from our guys this year.

[theFRANCHISE]

You don't have to use exotic blitzes to blitz well. Even though the Ravens don't face many elite QBs this regular season at first glance, there are still elite QBs that the team will have to contend with in the playoffs. A good QB can easily dissect an aggressive defense if they don't panic; just look at Peyton Manning's success rate against Rex Ryan's defenses, even with the New York Jets.

The concept of exotic blitzes is to artificially create pressure. But with the talent level of this team and the effectiveness that the defense showed in the second half of 2009, there's no need to artificially create pressure when genuine pressure can be applied. Sure, gimmicky defenses [i]look[/i] entertaining and work against half the league, but when it comes down to it, opponents with great QBs are unfazed by gimmicks. Though there will be the occasional game like the Wild Card dismantling of Tom Brady, there is a greater chance of a great QB like Brady having a good game against an exotic blitz than not.

[Milton145]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='01 July 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1278000698' post='428479']
You don't have to use exotic blitzes to blitz well. Even though the Ravens don't face many elite QBs this regular season at first glance, there are still elite QBs that the team will have to contend with in the playoffs. A good QB can easily dissect an aggressive defense if they don't panic; just look at Peyton Manning's success rate against Rex Ryan's defenses, even with the New York Jets.

The concept of exotic blitzes is to artificially create pressure. But with the talent level of this team and the effectiveness that the defense showed in the second half of 2009, there's no need to artificially create pressure when genuine pressure can be applied. Sure, gimmicky defenses [i]look[/i] entertaining and work against half the league, but when it comes down to it, opponents with great QBs are unfazed by gimmicks. Though there will be the occasional game like the Wild Card dismantling of Tom Brady, there is a greater chance of a great QB like Brady having a good game against an exotic blitz than not.
[/quote]

I see what you mean about the playoff teams. As we went on in the playoffs the QB level got better and more points were scored. What had me thinking this is that most of our guys seem more like the ones that excel in creating pressure in our LB core(except for JJ he excels in both pressure and coverage) In our secondary, Landry is more of a pressure guy than a cover guy. I was thinking "why not play to where the players exceed"

But hopefully with the new D-Line coaches we won't have to bring pressure with the help of linebackers and safetys. And have our D-Line play to the level of the Vikings or Steelers. If we don't bring it I could see us doing something like this though.

[ed.s52]

Why, so we will have an even harder time when we face the Colts?

[XxSizzleXx]

It's a no for me because personally I'm excited to see how the Defense does under Mattison for the 2nd year, including Mattison himself. We finished 3rd best Defense in the league last year under a new D-Coordinater which leads me to believe that we have a chance to be the best D in the league this year. Everyone on the D will be better this year including the coaches.

[Year of the Raven]

with rex yea, with matty no!!!!!

[AwakenTheDemon]

I don't know why some people seem to think Cody's going to come right in and be some sort of dominate, gap-creating nose tackle. The man was never know for his pass rush in college, and not every rookie comes into the professional level playing at a high level. Even if Cody has shored up his mobility, strength, and most importantly, usage of his hands, he's not going to be the pocket collapsing, pass rusher that most people are expecting from his right now. When teams have to choose between double teaming Ngata or Cody, they'll go for Ngata everytime.

Give Cody a few years, and he very well could be one of the top nose tackles in the league. The potential for that is definitely there, and I do like the man's work ethic. Believe me, I honestly want Cody to turn out to be the player his fans here expect him to be/believe he is. If/when that day comes, I'll be more than happy to admit that I was wrong about him.

[Ravensfan23]

To answer the original question. NO. The Orginized Choas defensive style Rex Ryan ran was no more successful then the style of defense the Ravens played last season under coach Matti.

So i'll ask the OP a question of my own. Other then look good, what was so much better about Rex's defense, then what we did last season?

[ravensfolife]

[quote name='ed.s52' date='01 July 2010 - 11:44 PM' timestamp='1278042275' post='428669']
Why, so we will have an even harder time when we face the Colts?
[/quote]
Yea it was great against most qb's but its been proven that the great ones shred that defensive look. Further proof why the jets will make the playoffs but cant get to the super bowl

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='Milton145' date='01 July 2010 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1278000383' post='428475']
[b]I was looking back at the 2008 highlights[/b] where we used this system and I think it worked pretty well IMO. Our players made the system work with bringing the heat from this blitz package in passing situations (though the better QBs we faced got a hold of it it seems) and we ended up being the #2 defense in the league.

I think with the players we have now we can still make it work since we have Haloti-Cody clearing the way in the middle for our linebackers, while we can have speed coming off the edge with Suggs and Kindle and on extra Safety (preferably Landry) to bring extra pressure. Throw in an extra corner (we do have fast corners) or extra LB or whatever I think we can duplicate or possibly surpass our 2008 success.

Either bring all the pressure with the Safety included or have him line up as a linebacker then drop him back (Zibby if Reed is still out) and help double cover the outside receiver like here at 1:00: [url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80de0c89/Wild-Card-Ravens-defense"]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80de0c89/Wild-Card-Ravens-defense[/url]

We don't really face any Mannings, or Favres, or Rivers, or Rodgers this year so it COULD work. Though when the 2nd time we face the Steelers we probably would need to go a more coverage based gameplan if Ben is the starter.

Anyway, it's just an opinion so let me know what you think.
[/quote]

You could look at the Lions Defense highlights and be impressed.

Don't fix what ain't broke (even though Mattison did it last season)

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' date='02 July 2010 - 06:00 PM' timestamp='1278108026' post='428879']
I don't know why some people seem to think Cody's going to come right in and be some sort of dominate, gap-creating nose tackle. The man was never know for his pass rush in college, and not every rookie comes into the professional level playing at a high level. Even if Cody has shored up his mobility, strength, and most importantly, usage of his hands, he's not going to be the pocket collapsing, pass rusher that most people are expecting from his right now. When teams have to choose between double teaming Ngata or Cody, they'll go for Ngata everytime.

Give Cody a few years, and he very well could be one of the top nose tackles in the league. The potential for that is definitely there, and I do like the man's work ethic. Believe me, I honestly want Cody to turn out to be the player his fans here expect him to be/believe he is. If/when that day comes, I'll be more than happy to admit that I was wrong about him.
[/quote]

To be fair to Cody and his supporters, he was never really asked to be a pass rusher in college. Cody was strictly a 2 down NT, just a space eater. I view it almost like the Ray Rice situation.

Rice was never viewed as a pass catcher coming out of college because he was rarely used as an receiving option out of the backfield. Many actually saw it as a weakness in his game, well all Rice did was become one of the more dynamic pass catching RBs in the NFL, in only his second season.

Now i'm not saying that Cody will be a pass rushing stud during his career or even his first year. However, if an offensive line will choose to double team Ngata, I'll take my chances with the big man matched up one on one. Cody just pushing the pocket from the inside wil create enough pressure to get a QB off his mark or disrupt some timing patterning.

[AwakenTheDemon]

Even with Ngata doubled, I'm not sold on Cody's strength to handle his blocks to consistently push the pocket, even with just his size alone. The man is big but doesn't have the strength to back up his girth. Granted, I came to that conclusion based on what I've seen of him from the combine and the handful of Bama games I watched when he was with the team. Back at the draft, they had a video of Cody on NFL.com and he was getting manhandled by one center, there was no push from him, he was just getting held at bay. Cody may have a good day against some of the lesser centers in the league, but against the top centers in the league, he won't have an easy time. However, as I said, that was back at the combine. From everything I've heard, Cody is really putting work into his body and technique, so he may be much better from what I've seen from him in the past. If Cody just puts on a bit more strength and has decent use of his hands, he could be effective in pushing the pocket. I'd love to see it, but I don't see it happening this year. Now, I'm not saying he won't be effective, some of the weaker offensive lines will still have some trouble with a Ngata-Cody pairing, but he won't be too scary to the higher tier offense lines.

[Ravens1991]

I say bring it back, it could make a UDFA look like a superstar.

Everyone brings up how Manning did against us well lets take a closer look.


2006 playoff- the defense held Manning to 0 TDS!!!!!!!!!! but 5 FGs, we lost that game because our offense was pathetic.

2007 regular season- We get wrecked, we had injuries that game, also it was the game immediately after the Patriots heartbreaker so do you think anyone really gave a hoot in that game.

2008 regular season- Chris McCalister was drunk/hung over that game, and he was on Harrison all day.

so Rexy system isnt exactly a guarenteed lose against the Colts like some people make it out to be. When it plays its best like it was in 2006 and now we actually have a respectable offense I think it would be fine.

[Purple Punishment]

just remember....Peyton Manning eats that 08 scheme for Breakfast! As he showed the Jets last year

[MKdave]

I like the exotic scheme more than the basic, 4 down w/zone sort of a defense. They can both work, but the exotic schemes can work [b]and[/b] be as entertaining as a high octane offense. And is that not why we watch football? To be entertained?

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='MKdave' date='03 July 2010 - 08:31 AM' timestamp='1278163862' post='428988']
I like the exotic scheme more than the basic, 4 down w/zone sort of a defense. They can both work, but the exotic schemes can work [b]and[/b] be as entertaining as a high octane offense. And is that not why we watch football? To be entertained?
[/quote]

We watch football to be entertained, but the players don't just play for fun, they're trying to win. Whatever wins games is what they'll use.

No, we shouldn't go back to organized chaos because that's not Mattison's style. Trying to imitate Rex won't work, Mattison's a good coordinator so we should let him do it his own way.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='MKdave' date='03 July 2010 - 09:31 AM' timestamp='1278163862' post='428988']
I like the exotic scheme more than the basic, 4 down w/zone sort of a defense. They can both work, but the exotic schemes can work [b]and[/b] be as entertaining as a high octane offense. [b]And is that not why we watch football? To be entertained[/b]?
[/quote]

it all depends on what you consider entertainment. Me personal, i've play or been apart of the game of football since i was 6, and i've always had a defensive mindset. So a game features 3 yards and a cloud of dust can be entertaining to me, because it's all about the battle of the trends.

I can enjoy a high scoring, shoot out type of game, even though i really dislike games that are dominated by the QB position.

Imo, the exotic style of defense is fun to look at, probably even more fun to play in. But for me the mentialy of a defense is more entertaining then the actual style.

For example. I love to see the Vikings defense play, but was never really a fan of the style of play that Philly plays. The Egales would probably attract more fans because they blitzed alot under the late great Jim Johnson, but the way the Vikings control the LOS has always been a thing of beauty to me.

So i guess you could find entertainment in any style of defense, it's just all in what you look for. imo

[Raga For Ravi]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='01 July 2010 - 11:11 AM' timestamp='1278000698' post='428479']
You don't have to use exotic blitzes to blitz well. Even though the Ravens don't face many elite QBs this regular season at first glance, there are still elite QBs that the team will have to contend with in the playoffs. A good QB can easily dissect an aggressive defense if they don't panic; just look at Peyton Manning's success rate against Rex Ryan's defenses, even with the New York Jets.

The concept of exotic blitzes is to artificially create pressure. But with the talent level of this team and the effectiveness that the defense showed in the second half of 2009, there's no need to artificially create pressure when genuine pressure can be applied. Sure, gimmicky defenses [i]look[/i] entertaining and work against half the league, but when it comes down to it, opponents with great QBs are unfazed by gimmicks. Though there will be the occasional game like the Wild Card dismantling of Tom Brady, there is a greater chance of a great QB like Brady having a good game against an exotic blitz than not.
[/quote]There's no need to completely cut them from the playbook, though, which is what it seems you are proposing. If you organize the defense into this smart, well-working, oiled machine you can give, as you say, genuine pressure, but if you only apply this method of thinking then no matter how great parts you have, your machine will breakdown. The exotic blitzes not only will allow for a smarter defense, but it will give our guys a chance for a slight, as small as it is, chance to regain some composure.

As we've seen we usually have a comeback more towards the third and fourth quarter, if we apply a constant bombardment of pressure and artificial pressure the offense won't know which way we are going for the entirety of the game, not only the last half when it's either win or lose; not that the entire game isn't win or lose, the first half is only a means to an end, and the second half is the end. If you lose the first half, odds are your demeanor and everything that you brought to the game are going to be shot. Why not give our guys a better chance by applying both methods the entire game? You can't have our guys going at it 100% the whole time - although, that is how we won the Super Bowl.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Milton145' date='01 July 2010 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1278000383' post='428475']
I was looking back at the 2008 highlights where we used this system and I think it worked pretty well IMO. Our players made the system work with bringing the heat from this blitz package in passing situations (though the better QBs we faced got a hold of it it seems) and we ended up being the #2 defense in the league.

I think with the players we have now we can still make it work since we have Haloti-Cody clearing the way in the middle for our linebackers, while we can have speed coming off the edge with Suggs and Kindle and on extra Safety (preferably Landry) to bring extra pressure. Throw in an extra corner (we do have fast corners) or extra LB or whatever I think we can duplicate or possibly surpass our 2008 success.

Either bring all the pressure with the Safety included or have him line up as a linebacker then drop him back (Zibby if Reed is still out) and help double cover the outside receiver like here at 1:00: [url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80de0c89/Wild-Card-Ravens-defense"]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80de0c89/Wild-Card-Ravens-defense[/url]

We don't really face any Mannings, or Favres, or Rivers, or Rodgers this year so it COULD work. Though when the 2nd time we face the Steelers we probably would need to go a more coverage based gameplan if Ben is the starter.

Anyway, it's just an opinion so let me know what you think.
[/quote]
We don't have any speed at LB. Scott was the speed we used to have but he isn't here anymore. Gooden might have even more speed but he doesn't start. Ellerbe isn't that fast, you can tell by how everyone beats him so easily in coverage. Suggs is one of the slowest LBs we have, and it doesn't help that he adds an extra 10 lbs every offseason. JJ isn't fast, and Ray lost his speed years ago. Kindle got speed but he won't be on the field a lot for another year or two. Our CBs have speed but can't cover at all, if we use some of those blitzes we need guys like C-mac and Rolle who you can count on. We just don't have the same roster to do what we used to do, its up to the offense to make up for what we can't do on defense.

[DMT]

Organized Chaos was not Rex's. Just thought I'ld point out that it was here since before he was our defensive coordinator

[rastaman831226]

Should we go back to Organized Chaos? This one's easy. ABSOLUTELY!!! Organized Chaos with a potent offense to back it up iwould make the Ravens the most powerful and dominate teams in the NFL We still have the best players to run it, we still have the playbook, all that[s missing is a ballsy coach to implement it.

[Bltravens]

No, dont have the right combination of players anymore particularly the secondary, despite what people may think its not as easy as Mattison simply saying "hey we're gonna run Rex's system", it doesnt work like that. Mattison has to do his own thing.

[Marcinik13]

Well compare our performances against Peyton Manning while we had Rex, and last year. Manning has Rex under his thumb. We still do present a lot of exotic looks though, just not chaotic, more organized. I like it, it worked last year so I can't complain.

[Ravensfan23]

I'm still waiting for someone to show me a valid reason, other then it's flashy style, of why that "organized Choas" approach would be more effective for the Ravens defense then what we had last season.

[Halden52]

I agree and disagree with you. Pressure on the QB is great no arguements, but I think with the D we had last year I think we could do more blitzes but the Ravens won't need the exotic blitzes like with Ryan. With the D-line they have we could easily have successfull inside and outside blitzes. With Gregg, Cody, Ngata, and Price on the line we can easily have great pressure without blitzes, add in some LB's, CB's, or even safeties the pressure we can have would be unstopable. Our defense is also very capable of having great coverage while bringing the heat causing havoc for offenses and oposing QB's

[JEEPercreepermd]

here's my answer, a big, fat, NO! Rex used exotic blitzes to mask a big problem that the Ravens had even then...no pressure from the Dline. It was a problem back then, and it was a problem last season too. Sure, all of the trickery was enough to scare most lower echelon and rookie Quarterbacks into throwing the ball wildly, but what happened when we would face a Roethlisberger, or Manning, or Brady? They weren't fooled. They knew we couldn't pressure them with only 4 or 5 and they were always smart enough to know how to burn us.

Look at what happened to Rex's defense against Peyton Manning in the AFC Championship game last season. "Organized Chaos" can only get you so far. Solid all around TEAM defense will take you farther.

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='Halden52' date='05 July 2010 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1278367193' post='429592']
With Gregg, Cody, Ngata, and Price on the line we can easily have great pressure without blitzes.
[/quote]
The problem is that Gregg, Cody, and Ngata are all big run stuffers. Trevor Pryce in his prime was a premier pass rusher in the league but sadly, those days are over. He's still smart and strong but he just doesn't have that last half step that he needs to get there most times.

That leaves us with Suggs,Kruger,Kindle,Barnes, and JJ. JJ is great in coverage as he proved last year and against the run but he's not a regular pass rusher. Suggs HAS to get back to form this year, and we need one of the young guys (Kruger, Kindle, Barnes) to step it up as well.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='JEEPercreepermd' date='05 July 2010 - 08:00 PM' timestamp='1278374424' post='429633']
The problem is that Gregg, Cody, and Ngata are all big run stuffers. Trevor Pryce in his prime was a premier pass rusher in the league but sadly, those days are over. He's still smart and strong but he just doesn't have that last half step that he needs to get there most times.

That leaves us with Suggs,Kruger,Kindle,Barnes, and JJ. JJ is great in coverage as he proved last year and against the run but he's not a regular pass rusher. Suggs HAS to get back to form this year, and we need one of the young guys (Kruger, Kindle, Barnes) to step it up as well.
[/quote]

The interesting thing about Pryce is that even though he is clearly not the same pass rusher that he was in the past, he lead the team in sacks last season with 6.5. Now that is not a whole lot of sacks, but he would have been a lot more impactful if Suggs had his usual Stellar type of season.

Having Pryce being more of a rotational type of guy will keep him fresh and allow him to use his size and speed from the DT position in pass rush situations.

[Bltravens]

Honestly if Pryce wasnt held on 2/3's of every play he would still be a force in the pass rush.