Built For The 4-3

[BloodRaven]

The two run clogging NT mentality is out of date, it's a passing league now and the requisite to be an effective 4-3 is different. We saw that last season in the 4-3 with our lack of inside penetration. With the size of our linemen we are built to run out of a 3-4 base.

[MKdave]

And [url="http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=DE3&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1"]these[/url] people seem to think Suggs didn't rush the passer very well this year. I don't dispute he's an excellent run defender, but we need a pass rush from him and he hasn't been getting the job done.

[Ravenmore74]

What's interesting is if Cody is playing it's usually a 4-3. If Kindle is playing it would be a 3-4.
I wouldn't be surprised if Harbaugh/Mattison pull a switch in the middle of the game.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='MKdave' date='27 June 2010 - 11:32 AM' timestamp='1277652732' post='426998']
And [url="http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=DE3&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1"]these[/url] people seem to think Suggs didn't rush the passer very well this year. I don't dispute he's an excellent run defender, but we need a pass rush from him and he hasn't been getting the job done.
[/quote]

True. However, most of the best pass rushers in the league have someone to take the pressure off them. Harrison and Woodley have each other and Ware has his NT(his name escapes me), collapsing the pocket.

Who does Suggs have that brings the heat? Pryce gets to the QB but has slowed down the past 4 years. After him, there's no one.

[MKdave]

[quote name='Ravenmore74' date='27 June 2010 - 04:46 PM' timestamp='1277653570' post='427002']
What's interesting is if Cody is playing it's usually a 4-3. If Kindle is playing it would be a 3-4.
I wouldn't be surprised if Harbaugh/Mattison pull a switch in the middle of the game.
[/quote]

Well no because Cody is a 3-4 player. Also the defensive formation will switch many time during a game. How do you think so many defenders get onto the field in the same game?

[berad]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='27 June 2010 - 11:49 AM' timestamp='1277653799' post='427003']
True. However, most of the best pass rushers in the league have someone to take the pressure off them. Harrison and Woodley have each other and [b]Ware has his NT(his name escapes me), collapsing the pocket.[/b]

Who does Suggs have that brings the heat? Pryce gets to the QB but has slowed down the past 4 years. After him, there's no one.
[/quote]

Ratliff and Anthony Spencer on the other side.

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='ravenbeast' date='26 June 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1277579203' post='426799']
4-3 4-3 4-3 who would u rather see facing an offensive guard ellerbe or mt cody. Yea we have not seen what cody will do in the nfl but imo i think he will be good and when you go from 4-3 to 3-4 ur giving up a D lineman for an ilb theres a reason the bengals ran for a 100 yds on us twice maybe the fact that there 350 lbs ofeensive lineman man handle our mlbs. The bengals didn't run around us they ran srtaight through us.
[/quote]
Some of the best defenses in the NFL are 3-4 defenses, so I really see no merit in what you are saying. They whole point of having mammoth Dlinemen in the 3-4 is so they can eat up blocks and let those Ilbs flow to the ball. Ngata had an ankle injury last year, and Kelly Gregg was just back from a knee injury that most people say takes two years to fully recover from, that's why we had some problems up front at the beginning of last year.
If you remember though, the front seven were lights out in the 2nd half of the season.
.
Furthermore, the addition of Cody is just going to add another huge frame to the middle of that line (remember, Kelly Gregg is actually undersized for a NT) Ngata and Cody each taking up 2-3 guys will once again allow our LB's to wreak havoc all over the field as they have always done

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='berad' date='27 June 2010 - 12:40 PM' timestamp='1277656807' post='427014']
Ratliff and Anthony Spencer on the other side.
[/quote]

Thanks. I forgot about Spencer; hHe really came on last season.

[ed.s52]

Suggs had a bad season... it's that simple.

Suggs is at least a top 10 OLB especially now that he has Cody to relieve some of the pressure off of him.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ed.s52' date='27 June 2010 - 04:07 PM' timestamp='1277669277' post='427073']
Suggs had a bad season... it's that simple.

[b]Suggs is at least a top 10 OLB especially now that he has Cody to relieve some of the pressure off of him.[/b]
[/quote]

We really don't know how Cody is going to perform so I can't really agree with that statement. Cody obviously has size and natural talent but it isn't a given he'll beat out Gregg for the NT spot.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='27 June 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1277672413' post='427098']
We really don't know how Cody is going to perform so I can't really agree with that statement. Cody obviously has size and natural talent but it isn't a given he'll beat out Gregg for the NT spot.
[/quote]



Well, I will agree with you there. He is not going to have a spot just handed to him. BUT based on his perfomance in the OTA's if he can carry that over into training camp and into the preseason he has the chance to be a probowler his rookie season. I watched every game this guy played in while he was at Alabama and I can promise you he is legit. He was out of shape and so he was kinda of wore out by the time the second half rolled around but he has dedicated himself to getting in the best shape of his life and the face that he is 345 right now compared to played at 370 his senior year just shows you his dedication. He will be able to sustain longer in the games and he will have that spunk about him even in the 4th quarter. My guess... this guy will be a probowl NT as a rookie. He isn't the type of guy that will get DPOY award because he probably won't have flashy stats (he didn't at Alabama) but he does the things that go unoticed and makes people like Suggs and Lewis look AMAZING!

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='ed.s52' date='27 June 2010 - 04:07 PM' timestamp='1277669277' post='427073']
Suggs had a bad season... it's that simple.

Suggs is at least a top 10 OLB especially now that he has Cody to relieve some of the pressure off of him.
[/quote]

I hope you're right. I think Suggs is a force, but he didn't exactly solidify his legacy last year. Don't get me wrong, he was very good last season. I just think he's much better than the sum of last year's performance.

[MKdave]

[quote name='ClintLB8' date='28 June 2010 - 04:20 AM' timestamp='1277695208' post='427222']
Well, I will agree with you there. He is not going to have a spot just handed to him. BUT based on his perfomance in the OTA's if he can carry that over into training camp and into the preseason he has the chance to be a probowler his rookie season. I watched every game this guy played in while he was at Alabama and I can promise you he is legit. He was out of shape and so he was kinda of wore out by the time the second half rolled around but he has dedicated himself to getting in the best shape of his life and the face that he is 345 right now compared to played at 370 his senior year just shows you his dedication. He will be able to sustain longer in the games and he will have that spunk about him even in the 4th quarter. My guess... this guy will be a probowl NT as a rookie. He isn't the type of guy that will get DPOY award because he probably won't have flashy stats (he didn't at Alabama) but he does the things that go unoticed and makes people like Suggs and Lewis look AMAZING!
[/quote]
He's not going to be a probowler. Not without flashy stats, which you concede that he's not going to get. You need a good few years of great performance at that position before you get recognized but you're also afforded a good few years before people realise you've fallen off.

And I don't think he's replacing Gregg this year. That's not a shot at Cody, just a tribute to Gregg. He was very good in the second half of last year, and if he's fully back from his surgery he'll be genuinely elite NT flying under the radar, as he was every year before his injury.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='MKdave' date='28 June 2010 - 09:58 AM' timestamp='1277737107' post='427312']
He's not going to be a probowler. Not without flashy stats, which you concede that he's not going to get. You need a good few years of great performance at that position before you get recognized but you're also afforded a good few years before people realise you've fallen off.

And I don't think he's replacing Gregg this year. That's not a shot at Cody, just a tribute to Gregg. He was very good in the second half of last year, and if he's fully back from his surgery he'll be genuinely elite NT flying under the radar, as he was every year before his injury.
[/quote]


Terrence Cody is a former 3 star prospect coming out of JUCO that no one expected much out of when he got to Alabama. He then turns around and starts the season opener his junior year and goes on to be a two time All-American in his only two years at Alabama. He doesn't have to put up flashy numbers to make it to a pro bowl. Just look at Kris Jenkins. This 6-4 370 pound (sound familiar?) guy is a 4 time pro bowl selection and he had 7 sacks in 1 season but besides that he has never had more than 3-5 a year. That's not flashy at all considering he has never had an interception or anything to go along with it. It is because you can obviously see on tape that he is dominate even though he might not put up huge numbers. He makes others around him put up big numbers because of what he does. Another one is Pat Williams. Same thing.. he has never had more than 3 sacks in a single season yet he is a 3 time pro bowl selection. How is that possible? Because going to the pro bowl isn't all about stats.. it's about showing that you are one of the top guys in your position just by dominating. I think Mt.Cody can easily be a Kris Jenkins or a Pat Williams. So yes.. he can be a pro bowler.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ClintLB8' date='28 June 2010 - 11:57 AM' timestamp='1277740664' post='427327']
Terrence Cody is a former 3 star prospect coming out of JUCO that no one expected much out of when he got to Alabama. He then turns around and starts the season opener his junior year and goes on to be a two time All-American in his only two years at Alabama. He doesn't have to put up flashy numbers to make it to a pro bowl. Just look at Kris Jenkins. This 6-4 370 pound (sound familiar?) guy is a 4 time pro bowl selection and he had 7 sacks in 1 season but besides that he has never had more than 3-5 a year. That's not flashy at all considering he has never had an interception or anything to go along with it. It is because you can obviously see on tape that he is dominate even though he might not put up huge numbers. He makes others around him put up big numbers because of what he does. Another one is Pat Williams. Same thing.. he has never had more than 3 sacks in a single season yet he is a 3 time pro bowl selection. How is that possible? Because going to the pro bowl isn't all about stats.. it's about showing that you are one of the top guys in your position just by dominating. I think Mt.Cody can easily be a Kris Jenkins or a Pat Williams. So yes.. he can be a pro bowler.
[/quote]

Cody can be a Pro Bowler down the road but I don't see him doing it his first season. In addition to competing with more experienced players for playing time, there are bigger names and better players who'll get the nod.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='28 June 2010 - 11:37 AM' timestamp='1277743052' post='427340']
Cody can be a Pro Bowler down the road but I don't see him doing it his first season. In addition to competing with more experienced players for playing time, there are bigger names and better players who'll get the nod.
[/quote]


I think it all depends on what kind of seasons the Ravens have this year. If they have a really good record and are competing for a Super Bowl and Cody has been a major part of that then I say he has a good chance. If they can really see him dominating on tape and allowing others to be successful like Ray Lewis or Terrell Suggs and if they are making a strong playoff push then yeah.. I think he can make a Pro Bowl as a rookie.

[MKdave]

[quote name='ClintLB8' date='28 June 2010 - 04:57 PM' timestamp='1277740664' post='427327']
Terrence Cody is a former 3 star prospect coming out of JUCO that no one expected much out of when he got to Alabama. He then turns around and starts the season opener his junior year and goes on to be a two time All-American in his only two years at Alabama. He doesn't have to put up flashy numbers to make it to a pro bowl. Just look at Kris Jenkins. This 6-4 370 pound (sound familiar?) guy is a 4 time pro bowl selection and he had 7 sacks in 1 season but besides that he has never had more than 3-5 a year. That's not flashy at all considering he has never had an interception or anything to go along with it. It is because you can obviously see on tape that he is dominate even though he might not put up huge numbers. He makes others around him put up big numbers because of what he does. Another one is Pat Williams. Same thing.. he has never had more than 3 sacks in a single season yet he is a 3 time pro bowl selection. How is that possible? Because going to the pro bowl isn't all about stats.. it's about showing that you are one of the top guys in your position just by dominating. I think Mt.Cody can easily be a Kris Jenkins or a Pat Williams. So yes.. he can be a pro bowler.
[/quote]

Did you read what I said? Players at nose tackle or any 3-4 DL position do not get to the pro bowl without a big sack season or [b]multiple[/b] years of production. Look at Haloti Ngata. The people in the know where calling him a top D-Lineman after pretty much his second season. But the rest of the league hasn't caught on until very recently, and that's why he's not been in the probowl until this year. Some guys never get the recognition they deserve, like Gregg. The two example you provided, Pat Williams (Didn't go to the PB until his 9th year in the league) and Kris Jenkins (Had a 7 sack season in his first pro bowl year) illustrate my point perfectly.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ClintLB8' date='28 June 2010 - 02:07 PM' timestamp='1277748451' post='427379']
I think it all depends on what kind of seasons the Ravens have this year. If they have a really good record and are competing for a Super Bowl and Cody has been a major part of that then I say he has a good chance. If they can really see him dominating on tape and allowing others to be successful like Ray Lewis or Terrell Suggs and if they are making a strong playoff push then yeah.. I think he can make a Pro Bowl as a rookie.
[/quote]

Cody won't go to the Pro Bowl as a rookie for clogging up lanes and allowing others to make plays like he did at Alabama. .

Ngata was a big part of the Ravens' defensive success his rookie year and the team had a very successful regular season overall but he didn't make the Pro Bowl.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='MKdave' date='28 June 2010 - 01:45 PM' timestamp='1277750711' post='427393']
Did you read what I said? Players at nose tackle or any 3-4 DL position do not get to the pro bowl without a big sack season or [b]multiple[/b] years of production. Look at Haloti Ngata. The people in the know where calling him a top D-Lineman after pretty much his second season. But the rest of the league hasn't caught on until very recently, and that's why he's not been in the probowl until this year. Some guys never get the recognition they deserve, like Gregg. The two example you provided, Pat Williams (Didn't go to the PB until his 9th year in the league) and Kris Jenkins (Had a 7 sack season in his first pro bowl year) illustrate my point perfectly.
[/quote]


Yeah, but if Cody can start as a rookie he already has a leg up because Pat Williams didn't start until 2001. Now Kris Jenkins started most of the season his rookie season but he was on a 1-15 Carolina Panthers team! So, like I said.. If the Ravens do extremely well this year and Cody is a big part of that then he has a shot. Now I don't think that Cody will be a full time starter but I think he can at least start 10-12 of the 16 regular season games and if he can prove to be dominate this season for a Ravens team that goes deep in the playoffs then he has a better shot than Kris Jenkins of Pat Williams had.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='28 June 2010 - 01:56 PM' timestamp='1277751365' post='427398']
Cody won't go to the Pro Bowl as a rookie for clogging up lanes and allowing others to make plays like he did at Alabama. .

Ngata was a big part of the Ravens' defensive success his rookie year and the team had a very successful regular season overall but he didn't make the Pro Bowl.
[/quote]


Look... Their is a first time for everything and if you guys want to not believe in him then that's fine. We can talk about this after the season is over and we will just see. I am not saying he is going to definitely be a pro bowl player this year but I think he has a shot if things work out for him. I'm just saying don't count him out and say that he WON'T be a pro bowler because you never know. He could put up 30 sacks this season (total exaggeration) and make DPOY. I mean.. you just never know. I just know that I am going to have faith in him and pull for him and let's just see what happens how about it.

[MKdave]

[quote name='ClintLB8' date='28 June 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1277752474' post='427406']
Yeah, but if Cody can start as a rookie he already has a leg up because Pat Williams didn't start until 2001. Now Kris Jenkins started most of the season his rookie season but he was on a 1-15 Carolina Panthers team! So, like I said.. If the Ravens do extremely well this year and Cody is a big part of that then he has a shot. Now I don't think that Cody will be a full time starter but I think he can at least start 10-12 of the 16 regular season games and if he can prove to be dominate this season for a Ravens team that goes deep in the playoffs then he has a better shot than Kris Jenkins of Pat Williams had.
[/quote]

But those were the examples that you yourself provided. That was apparently the best you could come up with to support your case. If you can find an interior lineman (so DT, NT, or 3-4 DE) who made the probowl his rookie year with less than 5 sacks, I'll withdraw my argument.

[berad]

[quote name='ClintLB8' date='28 June 2010 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1277753015' post='427409']
Look... Their is a first time for everything and if you guys want to not believe in him then that's fine. We can talk about this after the season is over and we will just see. I am not saying he is going to definitely be a pro bowl player this year but I think he has a shot if things work out for him. I'm just saying don't count him out and say that he WON'T be a pro bowler because you never know. He could put up 30 sacks this season (total exaggeration) and make DPOY. I mean.. you just never know. I just know that I am going to have faith in him and pull for him and let's just see what happens how about it.
[/quote]

It's not that they don't have faith in Cody's ability just with the probability of him only being a rotational player, being a run-stuffer, and the flawed system of Pro Bowl voting, it's unlikely that he will make it.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='berad' date='28 June 2010 - 02:45 PM' timestamp='1277754324' post='427420']
It's not that they don't have faith in Cody's ability just with the probability of him only being a rotational player, being a run-stuffer, and the flawed system of Pro Bowl voting, it's unlikely that he will make it.
[/quote]


I'll agree it would be very hard for him to make it. I do agree and understand that. I am just making a VERY bold prediction.

[TSizzle00]

How in the world are we built for the 4-3 if we have pass rushing 3-4 LB's and no real pass rushing 4-3 ends?