Built For The 4-3

[ClintLB8]

Terrence Cody eats up blockers.If you can have 8 guys on the field that can drop back into coverage and still stop the run effectively then why not do it? The Ravens do not need 4 defensive linemen. Between Cody, Ngata, and Pryce they have it on lock down. Ray Lewis has even said that he has not felt this good in years because of the pressure that Cody is taking off of him. You can do so much more with a 3-4 defense then you can running a 4-3. It allows for the defensive coordinator to get creative and bring pressure from just about everywhere. Baltimore is going to run a 4-3 sometimes with Suggs hand on the ground (Alot like Alabama does in college with the Jack position). Terrell Suggs is the PERFECT player for the Jack position Nick Saban runs at Alabama. Now I know that the NFL is much different than college, but I really feel like a 3-4 defense is the way to go. Look at the great defenses in the NFL.. Cowboys, Ravens, Steelers, Patriots, Jets (#1 defense last year), Chargers.. They all run 3-4's. Now I am not saying that there aren't good 4-3 defenses out there (Bears, Tampa Bay use to have a solid 4-3 defense), but all the teams like the Colts, Saints, etc. would not be any good without their dominate offenses. It isn't because of their defenses. The 3-4 defense is the way to go and the Ravens are building players to fit the mold. Adding Cody as a NT, Kindle as an OLB, Jones as possibly a DE.. the Ravens are adding the pieces they need to have the BEST 3-4 defense in the NFL.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='justifythegame' date='25 June 2010 - 11:30 PM' timestamp='1277523042' post='426636']
Suggs isn't 260, thats what he was back when he started his carreer. He is more like 280, and with the way he sits back an relaxes every offseason, skips workouts and gains weight, he will probably show up this year with an additional 10 lbs and even slower (if thats at all possible with how slow and out of shape he was last year). Suggs is hardly an elite OLB, and nor is he an elite DE. If you move him to DE permanently, it had to justify the 60 million we gave him since it was given because if his "versatility".
[/quote]

How you feel Suggs will show up in training camp is up to you. However, Suggs [b]is[/b] an elite OLB; I challenge you name to 5 OLBs you'd rather have than him.

[JO_75]

[quote name='justifythegame' date='25 June 2010 - 11:30 PM' timestamp='1277523042' post='426636']
You should check some things first.

Suggs isn't 260, thats what he was back when he started his carreer. He is more like 280, and with the way he sits back an relaxes every offseason, skips workouts and gains weight, he will probably show up this year with an additional 10 lbs and even slower (if thats at all possible with how slow and out of shape he was last year). Suggs is hardly an elite OLB, and nor is he an elite DE. If you move him to DE permanently, it had to justify the 60 million we gave him since it was given because if his "versatility".

Did Suggs ever play in a 4-3? I think you should double check that. I don't know what you're saying Suggs can't produce in a 3-4, because he has spent all of his carreer or at least most of it in a 3-4.

Right now we have invested too much in the 3-4 to switch to a 4-3. We have drafted linebackers who could play in the middle, not outside. We have drafted projects players early like Kruger, who is pushing 280 now to make the move to a 3-4 DE. We would be left with no 4-3 OLBs either. We picked up Cody because he is a NT. If we had 2 DTs, i'm not sure we would want both of them to be 2 huge NTs. There is a reason why teams have built their defenses a particular way. We can't do everything the same way as in 2000 and be successful in todays NFL.

[b]Its much easier to fire Harbaugh's family friend Mattison and get a qualified 3-4 DC than to make the switch you're proposing imo.[/b]
[/quote]

Yes I agree, that would be much easier to a get a better qualified 3-4 DC....*Cough Mike Nolan *Cough* but obviously the team was happy with Mattison other wise I do believe they would have made a strong push to get Nolan when McDaniels decided to toss him for no reason. Now would I prefer.... Nolan Yes I would but now that we have had a year under Mattison and the players are going to have a 2nd full season and training camp under Mattison, and I can see Mattison around for a little bit longer...(Ray that DC spot can be yours when you retire )

Now back to the topic, certainly I believe we have players that are versatile enough where we can mix it up and run both. Besides it seems like more and more teams are going to the 3-4 and it might be a good time to go back to the 4-3. We have the personnel to do it and didn't we run a 4-3 when we won the Super Bowl... actually yes we did because everybody remembers Gusa and Adams plugging up the middle, now we have Ngata, Gregg and add in Mt. Cody to relieve Gregg on some plays with Pryce/Kruger holding down LE and Suggs on RE, our defense could certainly be pretty damn good. Though I prefer the 3-4 and would like to remain in the 3-4 but it won't hurt to shake it up every once in a while and run a 4-3 to throw teams off.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='25 June 2010 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1277527990' post='426648']
How you feel Suggs will show up in training camp is up to you. However, Suggs [b]is[/b] an elite OLB; I challenge you name to 5 OLBs you'd rather have than him.
[/quote]

I 100% agree with you. Suggs has already said he is determined to get back down to his 260 pound form. He is an ELITE pass rusher that can either rush with his hand down or standing up. The Ravens will have him doing both.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='JO_75' date='26 June 2010 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1277528764' post='426650']
Yes I agree, that would be much easier to a get a better qualified 3-4 DC....*Cough Mike Nolan *Cough* but obviously the team was happy with Mattison other wise I do believe they would have made a strong push to get Nolan when McDaniels decided to toss him for no reason. Now would I prefer.... Nolan Yes I would but now that we have had a year under Mattison and the players are going to have a 2nd full season and training camp under Mattison, and I can see Mattison around for a little bit longer...(Ray that DC spot can be yours when you retire )

Now back to the topic, certainly I believe we have players that are versatile enough where we can mix it up and run both. Besides it seems like more and more teams are going to the 3-4 and it might be a good time to go back to the 4-3. We have the personnel to do it and didn't we run a 4-3 when we won the Super Bowl... actually yes we did because everybody remembers Gusa and Adams plugging up the middle, now we have Ngata, Gregg and add in Mt. Cody to relieve Gregg on some plays with Pryce/Kruger holding down LE and Suggs on RE, our defense could certainly be pretty damn good. Though I prefer the 3-4 and would like to remain in the 3-4 but it won't hurt to shake it up every once in a while and run a 4-3 to throw teams off.
[/quote]


You bring up an excellent point. We do need to mix it up. I am a huge fan of the 3-4 because I personally play better in it playing inside linebacker than I do in the 4-3 which I am currently in. We have the personell to be able to adjust and switch it up based on the team we are playing that week. That would make it very hard for opposing offense to game plan against our defense. And if one defense isnt working out the way that we thought it would versus a team then lets just switch it up to the other. Then we could TRUELY dominate!

[MKdave]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='25 June 2010 - 06:09 AM' timestamp='1277442564' post='426214']
3-4, 4-3, 2-6, 5-9, 6-11...whatever base defense you prefer (real or not), the Ravens' defense is built to play, period.

As last season showed, it's not necessarily the scheme, but the players in it, that make it work.
[/quote]
Man, 6-11 would be a badass defense.

[quote name='BlindSide' date='25 June 2010 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1277483476' post='426346']
You guys want to know the difference between the 3-4 and the 4-3 for us, It depends on Suggs, If he put his hand down it is a 4-3 it he stands up it is a 3-4.
[/quote]

No, that view is far too simplistic. As I have said many times on these boards there are huge philosophical differences between the alignments. For Suggs, that is usually the only change, but for all the other front 7 guys their job changes significantly.

In response to the OP, I don't know how you think we drafted into a 4-3, when our first two draft picks were clear 3-4 players. Kindle needs to put on 25 pounds really, really quickly and Cody needs to lose about 40. And even then I don't think he'll be a gap penetrator.

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' date='25 June 2010 - 12:18 PM' timestamp='1277482684' post='426344']
I disagree, Ngata would be much more effective at both pass-rushing and run stuffing in the 4-3. Ngata almost never gets sacks but that's because he's always getting double teamed or chipped, he's a much better pass rusher than you think he is. You're also forgetting about Redding. He can line up at DT/DE and rush the pass as well. Something like:

Suggs Ngata Gregg/Cody Redding

or

Suggs Ngata Redding Kruger

could be very effective.
[/quote]
Yeah, it COULD be. But wasn't our defense effective last season? True it wasn't an OUTSTANDING year by our standards here, but it was pretty much on par of what the Ravens defense has done over the past 10 years.
Case in point : If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[The Raven]

To play the 4-3, your Defensive line must be gap penetrators. The only lineman i can see being a gap penetrator is Pryce. In the 3-4, the d-line takes up blocks. This is what Ngata, Cody, and Gregg excel in doing. Also, our other tackles, Mckinney, Talavou, and Divens, based on their size, are probably good at the same thing. 3-4 is the way to go with our personnel.

[ravenbeast]

4-3 4-3 4-3 who would u rather see facing an offensive guard ellerbe or mt cody. Yea we have not seen what cody will do in the nfl but imo i think he will be good and when you go from 4-3 to 3-4 ur giving up a D lineman for an ilb theres a reason the bengals ran for a 100 yds on us twice maybe the fact that there 350 lbs ofeensive lineman man handle our mlbs. The bengals didn't run around us they ran srtaight through us.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='26 June 2010 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1277527990' post='426648']
How you feel Suggs will show up in training camp is up to you. However, Suggs [b]is[/b] an elite OLB; I challenge you name to 5 OLBs you'd rather have than him.
[/quote]

Demarcus Ware, James Harrison, and Lamarr Woodley are the only three I can think of that compare to a healthy, in shape Suggs. Suggs is without a doubt a top 5 OLB when in shape. Even when he's not, he's still top 10 i'd say. He's very under-rated against the run, and when healthy, he showed up in the pass rush. Evidence: Wild Card game against the Patriots.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='The Raven' date='26 June 2010 - 03:34 PM' timestamp='1277580886' post='426802']
Demarcus Ware, James Harrison, and Lamarr Woodley are the only three I can think of that compare to a healthy, in shape Suggs. Suggs is without a doubt a top 5 OLB when in shape. Even when he's not, he's still top 10 i'd say. He's very under-rated against the run, and when healthy, he showed up in the pass rush. Evidence: Wild Card game against the Patriots.
[/quote]

Agreed.

He flashed his pass rushing ability throughout the season but his weight, seeming lack of conditioning and the d-line's inability to collapse the pocket hurt Suggs.

Like other people, I'm not happy he didn't show up the very year the team rewarded him with a fat contract but he's very much a building block of this team.

[berad]

[quote name='The Raven' date='26 June 2010 - 03:34 PM' timestamp='1277580886' post='426802']
Demarcus Ware, James Harrison, and Lamarr Woodley are the only three I can think of that compare to a healthy, in shape Suggs. Suggs is without a doubt a top 5 OLB when in shape. Even when he's not, he's still top 10 i'd say. He's very under-rated against the run, and when healthy, he showed up in the pass rush. Evidence: Wild Card game against the Patriots.
[/quote]

You could throw in Dumervil as well but, still, Suggs is among the best in the league at OLB.

[DrMoonTooth]

I know at least one person mentioned Kindle putting on around 25 lbs...why? He may have played DE in college last year (to make up for Texas' loss of Orakpo), but I hope you're not thinking of him gaining weight to play DE for us. I'm pretty sure the coaches plan to rotate him amongst our LBs in the 3-4 scheme. The last thing Kindle needs to do is gain weight...it would put more strain on his knee (the health of said knee is still somewhat unknown), and playing with his hand in the dirt won't help it, either. I think he fits perfectly as an OLB, and eventually I'd like to see him split time with JJ. Having Suggs and JJ/Kindle as OLBs in our 3-4 is just too promising to stray from.

[MKdave]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' date='26 June 2010 - 09:11 PM' timestamp='1277583106' post='426815']
I know at least one person mentioned Kindle putting on around 25 lbs...why? He may have played DE in college last year (to make up for Texas' loss of Orakpo), but I hope you're not thinking of him gaining weight to play DE for us. I'm pretty sure the coaches plan to rotate him amongst our LBs in the 3-4 scheme. The last thing Kindle needs to do is gain weight...it would put more strain on his knee (the health of said knee is still somewhat unknown), and playing with his hand in the dirt won't help it, either. I think he fits perfectly as an OLB, and eventually I'd like to see him split time with JJ. Having Suggs and JJ/Kindle as OLBs in our 3-4 is just too promising to stray from.
[/quote]

That was me, in response to someone implying that Kindle was a 4-3 pick. I was saying that if we wanted him as a 4-3 end, he'd need to put on 25 pounds.

[XxSizzleXx]

I would take Suggs over any other OLB in the league simply because of how masterfully he plays the run, I think 1 RB made it past his side for a long run and that was AP in the Viking game in which Suggs had absolutely no support(this was also when Gooden was in).

[DrMoonTooth]

[quote name='MKdave' date='26 June 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1277583682' post='426817']
That was me, in response to someone implying that Kindle was a 4-3 pick. I was saying that if we wanted him as a 4-3 end, he'd need to put on 25 pounds.
[/quote]
Oh...my bad. Yeah, he's definitely a 3-4 pick. It seems like he could play either DE or OLB, but putting 25 lbs on him and asking him to put his hand in the dirt with that knee of his just seems like a bad idea. I agree 100%.

[MKdave]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='26 June 2010 - 09:26 PM' timestamp='1277584013' post='426818']
I would take Suggs over any other OLB in the league simply because of how masterfully he plays the run, I think 1 RB made it past his side for a long run and that was AP in the Viking game in which Suggs had absolutely no support(this was also when Gooden was in).
[/quote]

That's, frankly, homerish. That position is where you rush the passer from. We stop the run everywhere else. We don't have a stud pass rusher (Suggs at 280 is not a stud pass rusher) and it showed last year.

[MKdave]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' date='26 June 2010 - 09:27 PM' timestamp='1277584040' post='426819']
Oh...my bad. Yeah, he's definitely a 3-4 pick. It seems like he could play either DE or OLB, but putting 25 lbs on him and asking him to put his hand in the dirt with that knee of his just seems like a bad idea. I agree 100%.
[/quote]
I think we'd be cautious about having a pass rusher put on weight again until Paul Kruger shows that we were wise to shift him to 3-4 DE.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='ravenbeast' date='26 June 2010 - 02:06 PM' timestamp='1277579203' post='426799']
4-3 4-3 4-3 who would u rather see facing an offensive guard ellerbe or mt cody. Yea we have not seen what cody will do in the nfl but imo i think he will be good and when you go from 4-3 to 3-4 ur giving up a D lineman for an ilb theres a reason the bengals ran for a 100 yds on us twice maybe the fact that there 350 lbs ofeensive lineman man handle our mlbs. The bengals didn't run around us they ran srtaight through us.
[/quote]


Look man.. there is a reason Terrence Cody didn't go earlier than he did. No one with a 4-3 defense wants Mt. Cody because he is not the type of player that does well in a 4-3. Guess what? Alabama had one of the best RUN stopping defenses in the nation last year and won a national championship. They were able to do it with Mt.Cody manning the middle by himself.. he made Rolando McClain, Donta Hightower, and Nico Johnson look VERY good because he was able to take up 2-3 blockers on every play. Think about it.. if a two guards and a center are trying to work with Cody then who is left to block Ray and Ellerbe?? NO ONE!!! That allows 2 guys instead of 1 to just flow to the football and make plays. If you make Cody a gap penatrator then that takes away from his natural talent of eating up blockers.. instead of it taking 2-3 blockers to block him it just takes one.. Want to know why? Just don't run in the gap he is going through.

[ravenbeast]

demarcus ware, James harrison, Lamar woodley, Elvis dummervil and suggs when in shape is top 5 imo when suggs not in shape i say phillips on chargers.

[ravenbeast]

He may take 2-3 blockers in college hes in the nfl now there will never be 3 guys blocking him at one time and ellerbe will only take one ol at once and in 4-3 u got two power pigs to push pocket and open up ends for suggs and jj

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='ravenbeast' date='26 June 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1277588988' post='426837']
He may take 2-3 blockers in college hes in the nfl now there will never be 3 guys blocking him at one time and ellerbe will only take one ol at once and in 4-3 u got two power pigs to push pocket and open up ends for suggs and jj
[/quote]


Ok.. Maybe not 3. So let's see.. 5 offensive linemen right? Well... They said Ngata got double teamed every play last year. Ok.. so that's two. Then Terrance Cody is going to need to be double teamed (which I am sure you are going to agree with).. so that's 4 total blockers out of 5.. and they aren't going to let Pryce or Redding go untouched so that's at least one.. so there.. all 5 OL's accounted for. So that mean's there is a fullback and/or a tight end left to block Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, JJ, and Ellerbe... good luck to whoever tries that. See.. in my opinion if all it takes is 3 defensive linemen to be effective then why use 4?? that just means we have 1 more guy to cover the pass then normal.. and that also means JJ, Suggs, and Kindle will get a TON of 1 on 1 opportunities... which I think we all know that all 3 of those guys are more than capable of winning just about every single one of those. So why 4 defensive linemen? You are just committing 1 more guy to the run then necessary. If you can be just as effective collapsing the pocket with 3.. then why 4?

[ravenbeast]

If we can collapse the pocket with 3 then were was our pass rush last year. Man the colts could run the ball on us in the playoffs thats sad the last ranked team for the run was running on us up the gut. and cody would be able to take 2 ol in some cases. in the playoffs when theres eliete centers like say gurode off cowboys and 350 lb leonard davis he aint takin 2. when u run a 3-4 instead of 4-3 u are saying u have a mlb that is more of a help on the field the a dt. and we had no pass rush with three down. and if u do 3-4 and say ohh we got another guy for coverage yea but no pressure so our cb will sit on a island called try to cover a nfl wideout for 10 seconds. if you get 4 down and blitz 1 olb your corners have to cover less time and everyone on line will have man to man. Mattison needs to throw crazy blitzs like rex did to we played very conservative

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='ravenbeast' date='26 June 2010 - 07:24 PM' timestamp='1277598282' post='426894']
If we can collapse the pocket with 3 then were was our pass rush last year. Man the colts could run the ball on us in the playoffs thats sad the last ranked team for the run was running on us up the gut. and cody would be able to take 2 ol in some cases. in the playoffs when theres eliete centers like say gurode off cowboys and 350 lb leonard davis he aint takin 2. when u run a 3-4 instead of 4-3 u are saying u have a mlb that is more of a help on the field the a dt. and we had no pass rush with three down. and if u do 3-4 and say ohh we got another guy for coverage yea but no pressure so our cb will sit on a island called try to cover a nfl wideout for 10 seconds. if you get 4 down and blitz 1 olb your corners have to cover less time and everyone on line will have man to man. Mattison needs to throw crazy blitzs like rex did to we played very conservative
[/quote]



Well.. there is a reason we drafted Cody and Kindle with our first two picks. To take care of our pass rush problem. Look at Mt.Cody's highlight tape.. I would say that we have a very solid center and first play from scrimmage big Cody threw him out of the way like he wasn't anything and nailed Ray Rice for a loss. Now.. I can promise you between Ellerbe and Lewis won't anyone run on us next year. Ngata will get some open looks to get 1 on 1 match ups.. Cody I am sure will occasionally.. Suggs, JJ, and Kindle most certainly will.. I'm telling you.. We will be fine. We aren't going to change our whole defense in just training camp.. So we will just have to see how the 3-4 defense does next year. And then after next year.. we can re-evaluate if need be. But just give it a chance. I was at every single home Alabama game this year and I can promise you I think you are underestimating Mt.Cody. Now that he is in better shape and is getting even stronger I am telling you.. He can be just as dominate in the NFL as he was in college. At Alabama, he was tired after the first quarter and he still did extremely well. He has gotten into way better shape so just think of what he could do even on this level. Just give it a chance man.. If it doesn't work this season then I will be right there with you saying we should consider something else. And it's not like we aren't going to use a 4-3 sometimes. Of course we will! Trust me bud.. Just sit back and enjoy.. I feel a special season coming on!

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='MKdave' date='26 June 2010 - 02:30 PM' timestamp='1277584259' post='426820']
That's, frankly, homerish. That position is where you rush the passer from. We stop the run everywhere else. We don't have a stud pass rusher (Suggs at 280 is not a stud pass rusher) and it showed last year.
[/quote]

It's not homerish it's more of what flavour I like, how is it homerish? You are basing this off a 280 Suggs which has happened only 1 year. When he's not a balloon he is one of the best pass rushers yet is still better than the other 3 at stopping the run.

Suggs in 2008 could of made a case for DPOY, you think all the turnovers and pts scored from our Defense we're luck? Half of them are a result of Suggs getting into the QB's face.

[The Raven]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='26 June 2010 - 09:52 PM' timestamp='1277603568' post='426926']
It's not homerish it's more of what flavour I like, how is it homerish? You are basing this off a 280 Suggs which has happened only 1 year. When he's not a balloon he is one of the best pass rushers yet is still better than the other 3 at stopping the run.

Suggs in 2008 could of made a case for DPOY, you think all the turnovers and pts scored from our Defense we're luck? Half of them are a result of Suggs getting into the QB's face.
[/quote]

Exactly! More than half of Reed's picks are from Suggs gettin in the QB's face as you put it. Well maybe not more than half, but you get the idea.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='26 June 2010 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1277603568' post='426926']
It's not homerish it's more of what flavour I like, how is it homerish? You are basing this off a 280 Suggs which has happened only 1 year. When he's not a balloon he is one of the best pass rushers yet is still better than the other 3 at stopping the run.

Suggs in 2008 could of made a case for DPOY, you think all the turnovers and pts scored from our Defense we're luck? Half of them are a result of Suggs getting into the QB's face.
[/quote]


Well put. I agree with you. Suggs WILL be back to his old form this year.. he has got a chip on his shoulder because of one bad year a lot of people are starting to doubt him. Well.. I can almost guarantee that he will be in the top 5 in sacks this year. No doubt.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='ravenbeast' date='26 June 2010 - 07:24 PM' timestamp='1277598282' post='426894']
If we can collapse the pocket with 3 then were was our pass rush last year. [b]Man the colts could run the ball on us in the playoffs thats sad the last ranked team for the run was running on us up the gut.[/b] and cody would be able to take 2 ol in some cases. in the playoffs when theres eliete centers like say gurode off cowboys and 350 lb leonard davis he aint takin 2. when u run a 3-4 instead of 4-3 u are saying u have a mlb that is more of a help on the field the a dt. and we had no pass rush with three down. and if u do 3-4 and say ohh we got another guy for coverage yea but no pressure so our cb will sit on a island called try to cover a nfl wideout for 10 seconds. if you get 4 down and blitz 1 olb your corners have to cover less time and everyone on line will have man to man. Mattison needs to throw crazy blitzs like rex did to we played very conservative
[/quote]

That's freaking delusional. We held the Colts to 1.7 ypc in that game. We sacked Manning twice when he had been sacked like 13 times all season. Our pass rush was great that game, Manning just gets the ball out too quickly.

EDIT: we did much better against the Colts by not blitzing all the time than we usually do. May I remind you of '08?

[MKdave]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' date='27 June 2010 - 02:52 AM' timestamp='1277603568' post='426926']
It's not homerish it's more of what flavour I like, how is it homerish? You are basing this off a 280 Suggs which has happened only 1 year. When he's not a balloon he is one of the best pass rushers yet is still better than the other 3 at stopping the run.

Suggs in 2008 could of made a case for DPOY, you think all the turnovers and pts scored from our Defense we're luck? Half of them are a result of Suggs getting into the QB's face.
[/quote]


He's been in that region for probably the last 4 years. Even at 260 I don't think he's a truly elite pass rusher. Top 10 probably but not top 5. Suggs at 280 isn't top 20.

Suggs in 2008 would have been a terrible choice for DPOY in 2008. He was OK as a pass rusher, OK in coverage (he looked better than that because he took his two picks to the house, but he got lucky to have a free run to the endzone both times) and very good against the run.

And it's not so much personal preference, so much as necessity. If you can't get a pass rush out of your Jack linebacker where is it going to come from? The guys up front that aren't even trying to penetrate? The inside backers? Jarret Johnson will go sometimes but he's far from an elite pass rusher.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='MKdave' date='27 June 2010 - 02:53 AM' timestamp='1277621625' post='426958']
He's been in that region for probably the last 4 years. Even at 260 I don't think he's a truly elite pass rusher. [b]Top 10 probably but not top 5. Suggs at 280 isn't top 20. [/b]

Suggs in 2008 would have been a terrible choice for DPOY in 2008. He was OK as a pass rusher, OK in coverage (he looked better than that because he took his two picks to the house, but he got lucky to have a free run to the endzone both times) and very good against the run.

And it's not so much personal preference, so much as necessity. If you can't get a pass rush out of your Jack linebacker where is it going to come from? The guys up front that aren't even trying to penetrate? The inside backers? Jarret Johnson will go sometimes but he's far from an elite pass rusher.
[/quote]

These people seem to think Suggs is a Top 5 outside LB: http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/best-outside-linebackers-in-n-f-l-the-top-10-list/

And even at 280, there aren't 20 OLBs I'm taking over Suggs.