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The Pro Wrestling Thread


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#1 AwakenTheDemon

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 01:41 AM

Now I know I'm not the only one here who watches, I've seen the avatars (Franny, FF, JO_75, I'm looking at you guys namely). It's made me curious as to what the resident wrestling fans here think of the current going-ons in the industry, hence the thread. Sure, having tickets to the local event on saturday also weighed in the decision.

As much as I hate John Cena (I've never seen a gimmick so stale in ages), I actually can't wait to see Sheamus, Edge, Orton, and him in a cage match (mostly because I'm a huge fan of the other three in the ring).

Anyways, this isn't about my trips, heh, just about whatever's currently going on that anyone really cares to comment about. Like... as much as I loved the whole Nexus angle, it's getting repetitive to me. I love seeing Cena get cut down a few pegs and beat down, but every week ends with them rushing the ring and just beating down whoever happens to be in the ring. The WWE has a great idea with the angle, I'm just hoping they don't screw it up.
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#2 Purple Nurple

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 02:26 AM

Wrestling is fake. Flame on!
:flamethrower: :34853_blobfire:

Edited by Purple Nurple, 23 June 2010 - 02:27 AM.

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#3 AwakenTheDemon

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:17 AM

So? Every adult knows that. I shall not fall for your silly flamebait, my friend =P
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#4 theFRANCHISE

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:45 AM

Every time I see John Cena on TV, I'm reminded of how people like to draw comparisons between himself and The Rock. However, as much as I'd like to think that Cena is better than people give him credit for, there's always something that stops me from making those Rock comparisons. His delivery on the mic is corny, his promos do nothing to stand out, and his ring work is average. Sure, he's put on good matches, but rarely has he been able to carry a match on his own when placed with a mediocre worker. Moreover, his Superman gimmick is getting tired -- at least The Rock was able to reinvent himself multiple times while maintaining his core gimmick.

John Cena has just gotten to be annoying. Though I understand his value as the poster child of WWE's current PG era (which is slowly shifting towards PG-13), they need to do something fresh or else the fans will stop caring about him, especially as the kids get older.

I remember when the fans were getting tired of The Rock around 2002. Then, he came back from his time off and turned Hollywood in 2003, becoming perhaps the top heel that year. Cena needs to do something similar (not necessarily turn heel -- though I would love it) or else the fans will simply turn on him yet again.
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#5 BuckWilds

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 09:04 AM

I'm a huge fan... of the WWE's marketing department. Freaking brilliant.
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#6 theFRANCHISE

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:07 AM

I'm a huge fan... of the WWE's marketing department. Freaking brilliant.

The fact that they've got me hooked at 21 years of age is a testament to how great they are. :lol:

All kidding aside, though, they are a marketing juggernaut now more than ever, even compared to when the entire industry was at its peak in the late '90s. Because of their new age-appropriate initiative, they've got a broader demographic and broader appeal. Though the storylines are tamer now, I'll give them credit for pulling off some decent feuds in the past couple of years. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels, Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton vs. Triple H (until their crappy WrestleMania match), CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, etc. There's been some really mature and well-done angles that make me forget that this is the PG era.
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#7 AwakenTheDemon

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:47 AM

Every time I see John Cena on TV, I'm reminded of how people like to draw comparisons between himself and The Rock. However, as much as I'd like to think that Cena is better than people give him credit for, there's always something that stops me from making those Rock comparisons. His delivery on the mic is corny, his promos do nothing to stand out, and his ring work is average. Sure, he's put on good matches, but rarely has he been able to carry a match on his own when placed with a mediocre worker. Moreover, his Superman gimmick is getting tired -- at least The Rock was able to reinvent himself multiple times while maintaining his core gimmick.

John Cena has just gotten to be annoying. Though I understand his value as the poster child of WWE's current PG era (which is slowly shifting towards PG-13), they need to do something fresh or else the fans will stop caring about him, especially as the kids get older.

I remember when the fans were getting tired of The Rock around 2002. Then, he came back from his time off and turned Hollywood in 2003, becoming perhaps the top heel that year. Cena needs to do something similar (not necessarily turn heel -- though I would love it) or else the fans will simply turn on him yet again.


I agree for the most part, aside from his ringwork it doesn't impress me at all. Just like his character, it's entirely predictable. A typical Cena match goes something like this: Bell rings, Cena and his opponent have equal footing for a minute or two. However, his opponent gains momentum and he's quickly overpowered. Now, Cena will continue to be dominated for the majority of the match before his opponent whips him into the rope. He'll duck a clothesline (happens every. single. time.) and hit a shoulder block, duck again, shoulder block and his opponent is down. Cue the Five Knuckle Shuffle, followed by the F-U... uh, I mean "Attitude Adjustment". What happens next is the most variety you get out of one of his matches. Either he'll pin them for the win, or they'll either have blocked/countered the AA (maybe kick out of the pin, although unlikely) and Cena will just put on the STF-U.... uh, I mean STF. Every match follows that progression, to the point where I can literally tell when it's going to happen and call it before it starts.

His feuds are usually the same thing as well. He'll get dominated for the majority of the month, cut some promos saying how he'll never give up because he loves this company and doesn't know the words I quit. After four weeks of that, Cena shows up at the PPV is damn-near invincible. Add in the fact that he'll hold the belt for months on end, lose it, and then win it back in a month or two doesn't help either.

Regardless though, I don't think Cena is at the Rock's level (popularity wise, maybe due to his appeal to children), but when it comes to charisma, mic skills, and ring work, I'll give it to the Rock everytime. If the WWE doesn't do something to Cena's character, they are going to be in trouble once his fanbase grows older. Nothing beats hearing the dueling chants of "Let's Go Cena - Cena Sucks" in the crowd though.

If you think about it, they're doing the same thing to Rey Mysterio. Honestly, how can you really consider him an underdog anymore? He doesn't lose his matches very often, and when's the last time a feud he was in ended with him being the obvious "loser"? Mysterio is already over with every child out there, he doesn't really gain anything anymore from winning his feuds. Like the last CM Punk Feud. Mysterio really didn't gain anything from winning the feud, yet Punk lost his hair and got set back alot of steps towards the main event (at least in my opinion). It doesn't help that his matches are predictable as well, you're guaranteed to see a hurricanrana, that silly wheelbarrow position to bulldog counter, maybe a few dives (he isn't the high flier he used to be), and then the stupid 619 (I can't see how this is a finisher). The fact that he's World Heavyweight Champion baffles me. The man is billed at 5'6 (while he's probably more along the lines of 5'2-5'4) and 175 pounds (but probably 155-165), that's not a heavyweight.

Part of me feels that one day, the company is going to come back to something similar to the Attitude Era, so they can keep their fanbase. Although it wouldn't surprise me to see them stay with the Family-Friendly approach.

Edited by AwakenTheDemon, 23 June 2010 - 10:48 AM.

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#8 theFRANCHISE

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:08 AM

Part of me feels that one day, the company is going to come back to something similar to the Attitude Era, so they can keep their fanbase. Although it wouldn't surprise me to see them stay with the Family-Friendly approach.

We're seeing shades of the shift back towards a more mature product in various storylines. Granted, we won't be seeing any more of the blatant profanity or sexually-suggestive skits with the Divas, but we'll see more adult-oriented storylines.

We'll never see the regular use of blood (their blood policy is, in part, due to the risk of hepatitis) and we likely won't see any more unprotected chairshots to the head, but we'll still see wrestlers get creative in finding ways to convey the gravity of moments. People don't understand that those two policies weren't instituted because of the family-friendly approach, but rather, as response to things like the Chris Benoit murder-suicide and general health concerns. Concussions are a big thing in all of sports, hence the need to remove chairshots to the head if wrestlers aren't taking them properly.

The writing overall just needs to improve. You don't need to be vulgar to tell a good, edgy story. You can still do an Undertaker-Stephanie McMahon abduction storyline and you can still do an Austin-McMahon blood feud, you just won't see them pushing the envelope for the sake of shock value. Back then, it was all for ratings. At this point, now that the ratings are as good as they'll get, give those loyal viewers an incentive to keep watching by giving them storylines that won't insult their intelligence.
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#9 AwakenTheDemon

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 01:21 PM

Yeah, I don't mean we'll see the shock value that we used to back in the AE, but just something a bit more adult-oriented and appealing to adults. Sure, we won't see the vulgarity that D-X had one they first came out, or the attitude Stone Cold had, but I think they could bring back a bit more of the more "tame" swear words. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy watching nowadays.

I'm all for them cutting down on the chairshots to the head and the blood. It's nice to see guys like Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker (even if he looks "feeble" by Undertaker standards, he just isn't intimidating anymore) wrestle well into their 40's.

The writing could improve though, although I think they could have something golden with the Nexus story. It still doesn't make me like the horrible Heath Slater, Darren Young, or David "Hey, I'm Engaged to Jennifer Hudson!" Otunga any more than I did during NXT (which was not at all), but Wade Barret (I already liked him though), Michael Tarver and Justin Gabriel balance it out. I just think they need to be more than just a mob coming out during the main event of Raw and destroying anyone who's in the ring. But hey, it makes me look forward to new episodes of Raw though.

Edited by AwakenTheDemon, 23 June 2010 - 01:26 PM.

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#10 WinnipegRaven

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 02:02 PM

Ya'll talkin bout Wraastlin'!?!?!? Getting dangerous to be a fan of the "sport"


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Originally Posted by Beast of the East View Post
I actually find most Raven's fans I meet to be pretty levelheaded and respect the talent we have this year. However I am comparing them to Steeler's fans who are, as a rule of thumb, obnoxious.
Yup, I browse one of their message boards and they are the most reasonable fan base I have come across.

#11 AwakenTheDemon

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 02:44 PM

I guess that's what you get when you try to reveal La Parka's face.
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#12 theFRANCHISE

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 02:49 PM

I guess that's what you get when you try to reveal La Parka's face.

Apparently, some lucha libre fans have no clue of the mask's importance in Mexican culture for luchadores. Go figure. -_-
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#13 BohBalmerOsbohs

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 02:56 PM

I love wrestling video games.
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"Talk is cheap. Let's go play." Johnny Unitas


#14 AwakenTheDemon

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 02:58 PM

I think the fan oversold La Parka's punch though ;)
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#15 FerrariFan87

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:52 PM

I will turn it on now and again, but it doesn't come close to the "good old days" of D-X, Stone Cold and The Rock in their respective primes, along with a plethora of other amazing characters.
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#16 BuckWilds

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 04:03 PM

The fact that they've got me hooked at 21 years of age is a testament to how great they are. :lol:

All kidding aside, though, they are a marketing juggernaut now more than ever, even compared to when the entire industry was at its peak in the late '90s. Because of their new age-appropriate initiative, they've got a broader demographic and broader appeal. Though the storylines are tamer now, I'll give them credit for pulling off some decent feuds in the past couple of years. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels, Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton vs. Triple H (until their crappy WrestleMania match), CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, etc. There's been some really mature and well-done angles that make me forget that this is the PG era.


I really do mean it. I agree with you - they are brilliant at building a cross-section of fans and they use multiple methods to keep people interested.
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#17 Token

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 04:08 PM

I will turn it on now and again, but it doesn't come close to the "good old days" of D-X, Stone Cold and The Rock in their respective primes, along with a plethora of other amazing characters.


Same.
I used to love to watch it but over the years I just got tired of it. :(
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#18 JO_75

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 09:38 PM

I agree for the most part, aside from his ring work it doesn't impress me at all. Just like his character, it's entirely predictable. A typical Cena match goes something like this: Bell rings, Cena and his opponent have equal footing for a minute or two. However, his opponent gains momentum and he's quickly overpowered. Now, Cena will continue to be dominated for the majority of the match before his opponent whips him into the rope. He'll duck a clothesline (happens every. single. time.) and hit a shoulder block, duck again, shoulder block and his opponent is down. Cue the Five Knuckle Shuffle, followed by the F-U... uh, I mean "Attitude Adjustment". What happens next is the most variety you get out of one of his matches. Either he'll pin them for the win, or they'll either have blocked/countered the AA (maybe kick out of the pin, although unlikely) and Cena will just put on the STF-U.... uh, I mean STF. Every match follows that progression, to the point where I can literally tell when it's going to happen and call it before it starts.

His feuds are usually the same thing as well. He'll get dominated for the majority of the month, cut some promos saying how he'll never give up because he loves this company and doesn't know the words I quit. After four weeks of that, Cena shows up at the PPV is damn-near invincible. Add in the fact that he'll hold the belt for months on end, lose it, and then win it back in a month or two doesn't help either.

Regardless though, I don't think Cena is at the Rock's level (popularity wise, maybe due to his appeal to children), but when it comes to charisma, mic skills, and ring work, I'll give it to the Rock every time. If the WWE doesn't do something to Cena's character, they are going to be in trouble once his fanbase grows older. Nothing beats hearing the dueling chants of "Let's Go Cena - Cena Sucks" in the crowd though.

If you think about it, they're doing the same thing to Rey Mysterio. Honestly, how can you really consider him an underdog anymore? He doesn't lose his matches very often, and when's the last time a feud he was in ended with him being the obvious "loser"? Mysterio is already over with every child out there, he doesn't really gain anything anymore from winning his feuds. Like the last CM Punk Feud. Mysterio really didn't gain anything from winning the feud, yet Punk lost his hair and got set back a lot of steps towards the main event (at least in my opinion). It doesn't help that his matches are predictable as well, you're guaranteed to see a hurricanrana, that silly wheelbarrow position to bulldog counter, maybe a few dives (he isn't the high flier he used to be), and then the stupid 619 (I can't see how this is a finisher). The fact that he's World Heavyweight Champion baffles me. The man is billed at 5'6 (while he's probably more along the lines of 5'2-5'4) and 175 pounds (but probably 155-165), that's not a heavyweight.

Part of me feels that one day, the company is going to come back to something similar to the Attitude Era, so they can keep their fan base. Although it wouldn't surprise me to see them stay with the Family-Friendly approach.


So A Cena match is more like a Hulk Hogan match except he Hulks up, points his finger at his opponent, does a few punches, tosses him into the ropes for a big boot(unless his opponent ducks) and he hits a leg drop that I know nobody in real life would stay down that long, kinda like how it is hard to believe someone stays down long enough for Cena to do the 5 Knuckle Shuffle and Hogan wins the match. I think a better comparison for Cena is Hulk Hogan, plays the Super Man Gimmick, hardly loses, always gets the belt back somehow and instead of telling people to say their prayers and eat their vitamins Cena just has this whole Hustle, Loyalty and Respect thing.

Yeah, which to me says he'll continue to get beat up by these rookies and somehow end up "saving the WWE" from the Nexus Invasion(though I read that the savior role is probably going to played by Triple H)

The whole Rock-Cena thing, again the only thing they have in common is that they did movies, Cena is this generations Hulk Hogan. Though I would love to see The Rock vs John Cena at Wrestlemania and see The Rock take John Cena to Jabroni Drive at the Smackdown Hotel.

I AGREE ABOUT PUNK! Mysterio needed to join the SES a while back. Mysterio needed to lose to not only enhance the SES but move Punk closer to the World Heavyweight Championship. For Punk to lose to Mysterio and have his hair shaved so soon, made me mad. I could have seen Mysterio winning and the SES getting involved and saving Punk from a hair cut and Punk runs off and keeps his hair to enhance the feud. The WWE dropped the ball on the SES just like they did with Legacy. I'm a huge a fan of Punk and love this Straight Edge Gimmick though I do question making it a heel gimmick when your geared toward kids, making it seem like it is ok to do drink and do drugs.

I'll be waiting for the day where they go to something similar to the AE, but let's remember one thing the AE was something we won't get back and seemed like it was just right. We had guys like The Rock, Stone Cold, NWO & DX running around causing havoc, the AE seemed more like having the right stars in the right company at the right time. If they can keep me hooked for as long they have(I am 20, and have watched since I was in 1st grade) than I don't expect to stop watching and stop going to events, and stop buying their Video Games and DVDs, in fact I went to Broadcasting School so I can end up either in NFL or NASCAR, I would love to go work for the WWE, production or backstage announcer would be fine for me.

Edit: Just changed my Avatar to the new WWE Champion, Sheamus! Now can someone get a memo to Vince about changing the WWE Title back to it's pre-Cena Belt Change, that belt looks stupid on guys like Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista and Sheamus, and that is the truth Fella!

Edited by JO_75, 23 June 2010 - 10:14 PM.

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#19 AwakenTheDemon

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:20 AM

So A Cena match is more like a Hulk Hogan match except he Hulks up, points his finger at his opponent, does a few punches, tosses him into the ropes for a big boot(unless his opponent ducks) and he hits a leg drop that I know nobody in real life would stay down that long, kinda like how it is hard to believe someone stays down long enough for Cena to do the 5 Knuckle Shuffle and Hogan wins the match. I think a better comparison for Cena is Hulk Hogan, plays the Super Man Gimmick, hardly loses, always gets the belt back somehow and instead of telling people to say their prayers and eat their vitamins Cena just has this whole Hustle, Loyalty and Respect thing.

Yeah, which to me says he'll continue to get beat up by these rookies and somehow end up "saving the WWE" from the Nexus Invasion(though I read that the savior role is probably going to played by Triple H)

The whole Rock-Cena thing, again the only thing they have in common is that they did movies, Cena is this generations Hulk Hogan. Though I would love to see The Rock vs John Cena at Wrestlemania and see The Rock take John Cena to Jabroni Drive at the Smackdown Hotel.

I AGREE ABOUT PUNK! Mysterio needed to join the SES a while back. Mysterio needed to lose to not only enhance the SES but move Punk closer to the World Heavyweight Championship. For Punk to lose to Mysterio and have his hair shaved so soon, made me mad. I could have seen Mysterio winning and the SES getting involved and saving Punk from a hair cut and Punk runs off and keeps his hair to enhance the feud. The WWE dropped the ball on the SES just like they did with Legacy. I'm a huge a fan of Punk and love this Straight Edge Gimmick though I do question making it a heel gimmick when your geared toward kids, making it seem like it is ok to do drink and do drugs.

I'll be waiting for the day where they go to something similar to the AE, but let's remember one thing the AE was something we won't get back and seemed like it was just right. We had guys like The Rock, Stone Cold, NWO & DX running around causing havoc, the AE seemed more like having the right stars in the right company at the right time. If they can keep me hooked for as long they have(I am 20, and have watched since I was in 1st grade) than I don't expect to stop watching and stop going to events, and stop buying their Video Games and DVDs, in fact I went to Broadcasting School so I can end up either in NFL or NASCAR, I would love to go work for the WWE, production or backstage announcer would be fine for me.

Edit: Just changed my Avatar to the new WWE Champion, Sheamus! Now can someone get a memo to Vince about changing the WWE Title back to it's pre-Cena Belt Change, that belt looks stupid on guys like Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista and Sheamus, and that is the truth Fella!


Yeah, Cena is pretty much like old school Hulk Hogan. The main difference is Hogan was largely the first HUGE wrestler, I doubt anyone would want to pay and see the almighty Hulkster lose. I won't deny it, Hogan was stale as well. Which is why I loved the heel turn to Hollywood Hogan. Cena needs to take the step into his Hollywood phase.

I agree with the AE viewpoint, the stars made it moreso than the storylines. They were what made the storylines (and the era in general) so entertaining and memorable. I don't think we'll ever get the "trashy", edgy, and more for adults entertainment that we did back then, but I could see more... uh, "sophisticated" adult storylines. As well as they have done with garnering a huge fanbase of various demographics, I could see them maybe perfecting the balance between PG, family-friendly storylines and other more mature storylines. The writers would definitely need to improve upon their storyline ideas though.

About Mysterio joining the SES, I think he could have joined and still stayed face in a heel stable. Punk could have kept preaching about straight-edge, and have Mysterio try to balance things out with his face ideas. I'd find it to be an interesting blend of the two, and could have spiced up the SES. Regardless though, the Society needs more members, I don't see how 3 people can be a Society (4 if you count the masked man).

And I would COMPLETELY support reverting the WWE Title back to it's classic design. I loved how it used to look, it looked like a championship. Once Cena took it, put the Spinner on it and "pimped" (for lack of a better word) it out, it became horribly gaudy looking. Like... four different kinds of gems and it says "WWE CHAMP", which I find pretty unprofessional. You're right, it looks odd on everyone.

Glad to see another Sheamus fan. I wasn't keen on him when he first came about (probably because I'm a Triple H fan, so I wasn't happy that he was getting destroyed by a new guy). But he's definitely grown on me. Can't wait to see him, Edge, and Orton on saturday *cough*ohandmaryse*cough* It just sucks that if I want to see Randy win, it means I have to see Cena win. Which of course means I'll have to hear his theme music and all the kiddies and middle aged women screaming :\
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#20 theFRANCHISE

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:46 AM

I hate Sheamus with a passion. His ring work does nothing for me, and he offers nothing in the way of charisma or entertainment on the microphone. His look does nothing for me. Frankly, if he wasn't Triple H's workout partner, I don't see how he would've gotten a push otherwise.

I'm a bigger fan of Maryse for obvious reasons :wub:

Every time her music hits and she walks out and does that hair flip, I just swoon. :blush:
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