For The Flacco Vs. Ryan Debaters

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' date='10 June 2010 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1276198789' post='420636']
Danke.

I wasn't paying attention to him that year, because in all honesty, I wanted us to trade from 8 to 3 to pick up, uhhh (you know who).

Obviously I'm happy about the decision though.
[/quote]

For a long time he was 2nd/3rd, but by the time the draft came he had jumped up to the point of being held in very high regard - the consensus was that Matt Ryan was clearly the #1 QB and by the time draft day came around, Joe was solidly #2...

We'll see how history views that assessment in a decade or two.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='DevilsLuck' date='09 June 2010 - 10:47 AM' timestamp='1276098422' post='419940']
I'm guessing the reason Flacco was sacked so much last year was one: because he really only had Rice and Mason to throw to most the time. Two: Gaither hasn't exactly been giving it his all in the season or off-season. And well that's really it. P.S. Gaither could've still been Left Tackle if he had more heart. The main reason they moved Oher to Left Tackle wasn't because he was better than Gaither in my opinion it was that he tried his hardest every down. He has more heart.
[/quote]



im gonna disagree on the gaither/oher situation. while oher does try harder and has more heart, i think the decision to move him to LT has more to do with Gaither most likely being on the way out. If they're expecting gaither to be gone, you dont want to leave him at the LT position and Oher at RT and then switch Oher over when Gaither leaves without time to develop in the position.

Oher is going to stick around for sure, so they want to give him as much time as possible to become confident in the position. Put him there now to get maximum time and reps there, and then if/when gaither leaves there is no drop off at the LT position bc Oher had already been the starter for a year. There's more continuity that way. if gaither stayed at LT and then left, in 2011 we would have a new LT and RT bc oher would have to slide over and most likely cousins starting at RT. sliding oher over now allows us to have only one new starter at a tackle position, the RT bc oher will now have been there a year already.

[JohnJohnson]

Agreed, not to mention Gaither has been injury prone. Might as well put the solid and still developing Oher in the position he is going to be playing soon anyway. Gaither will have to perform at RT this season if he wants a big contract, and more injuries could hurt his value as well.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' date='09 June 2010 - 12:03 AM' timestamp='1276056188' post='419809']
Yea, I was about to say the same thing about Flacco being sacked so much. With Gaither and Oher, why?
[/quote]

The Ravens have played top defense more times than the Falcons. Plus facing the Steelers 5 times the last 2 seasons can really hurt you.

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' date='08 June 2010 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1276052719' post='419777']
Everyone loves to post up stats and see who has improved better and whatnot. Here is something for everyone to see

http://thepurplechaos.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/flaccovsryan.jpg

[img]http://thepurplechaos.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/flaccovsryan.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
You didn't mention that Ryan missed 2 games and your leading receiver is your running back.

[H8R]

So, Joe played thru pain and refused to come out with his injuries and thats a knock on him?

[RavensAllTheWay]

Well in terms of the Ryan-Flacco debate, I think this is the year that these two will start to separate. The numbers are pretty close, and considering I feel that both teams should be strong contenders for the Super Bowl, the separation is bound to come in the playoffs. Joe's already 3-2 in the playoffs compared to Ryan's 0-1, but still it all comes to a head this year.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='#1falconfan' date='13 June 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1276477300' post='421489']
You didn't mention that Ryan missed 2 games and your leading receiver is your running back.
[/quote]

Rice had so many catches because Joe didn't have a big WR capable going vertical like...Roddy White.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='#1falconfan' date='13 June 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1276477300' post='421489']
You didn't mention that Ryan missed 2 games and your leading receiver is your running back.
[/quote]

Ok, so Ryan would have improved in attempts and completions. His completion percentage would still have dropped, he would probably have similar yardage, and his yards per attempt dropped. I doubt that his QB rating would have changed much.

[H8R]

and Flacco has NEVER had a a deep threat like Roddy White... This year will prove a lot.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='#1falconfan' date='13 June 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1276477300' post='421489']
You didn't mention that Ryan missed 2 games and your leading receiver is your running back.
[/quote]

Missing two games affected Ryan's QB rating, completion percentage and the precipitous drop-off between his first and second years? The chart does show that he played two less games (in two different places) by the way.

[FlaccoFlicker]

The matchup is this year,one I have waited for since draft day.How would we have been tho if the trade would have been made and Ryan was a Raven?

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='H8R' date='13 June 2010 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1276481004' post='421517']
So, Joe played thru pain and refused to come out with his injuries and thats a knock on him?
[/quote]
I would like to see you play on turf toe.

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='13 June 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1276481737' post='421526']
Rice had so many catches because Joe didn't have a big WR capable going vertical like...Roddy White.
[/quote]
You're right but dumping it off to your running back will help your completion percentage.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='FlaccoFlicker' date='14 June 2010 - 09:49 AM' timestamp='1276523347' post='421624']
The matchup is this year,one I have waited for since draft day.How would we have been tho if the trade would have been made and Ryan was a Raven?
[/quote]
If Ryan were a Raven, I'd support him, but he's not so I don't.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='#1falconfan' date='15 June 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1276626167' post='421951']
You're right but dumping it off to your running back will help your completion percentage.
[/quote]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d814983b2/Flacco-to-Rice-1st-down

Ever seen that play?

Most of us have seen the potential that Flacco has, he just hasn't had the necessary weapons to really explore his abilities at this level. I don't think Ryan is bad and I don't think anyone here does, and it's definitely way too early to know who will have a better career. But, this season will be telling, and I expect Flacco to unleash.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='#1falconfan' date='15 June 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1276626167' post='421951']
You're right but dumping it off to your running back will help your completion percentage.
[/quote]

Definitely. There will very likely be less dump-offs this year so we'll see just how accurate Joe can be throwing downfield.

[Romo Ravens]

None of this debate matters as of now. Both teams have two QB's that will lead their franchise for quite some time. #falconfan has a valid point in saying that Rice helped with Flacco's completion percentage, but the same can be said about Matt Ryan with Michael Turner his first year. Any QB with a back like him, who posted 1,699 yards with 17 TD's, will surely succeed seeing that the play-action pass can be set up perfectly.

The answer will finally be here when November 11th comes around, but in the mean time, neither QB wins.

[EdReedFTW]

[quote name='#1falconfan' date='15 June 2010 - 02:21 PM' timestamp='1276626089' post='421950']
I would like to see you play on turf toe.
[/quote]
I'd like to see you play with a hip so swollen that you cant sit down on the plane to game.

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' date='15 June 2010 - 02:56 PM' timestamp='1276628164' post='421965']
None of this debate matters as of now. Both teams have two QB's that will lead their franchise for quite some time. #falconfan has a valid point in saying that Rice helped with Flacco's completion percentage, but the same can be said about Matt Ryan with Michael Turner his first year. Any QB with a back like him, who posted 1,699 yards with 17 TD's, will surely succeed seeing that the play-action pass can be set up perfectly.

The answer will finally be here when November 11th comes around, but in the mean time, neither QB wins.
[/quote]
I agree 100% both teams have their strengths and weaknesses, and personally I believe that your team his a little better than ours (not by much though lol)

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='EdReedFTW' date='15 June 2010 - 03:02 PM' timestamp='1276628551' post='421971']
I'd like to see you play with a hip so swollen that you cant sit down on the plane to game.
[/quote]
I never said that Joe didn't play through a bad injury the other poster made it sound like Ryan was out for a hangnail. He had turf toe which ended some guys careers.

[H8R]

[quote name='#1falconfan' date='15 June 2010 - 02:21 PM' timestamp='1276626089' post='421950']
I would like to see you play on turf toe.
[/quote]


Why, I'm not a QB.... My point was Flacco shouldn't have to salvage 2 games stats in the chart becasue Ryan was hurt... that's what you were getting at with your post about Ryan missing 2 games. i'm not saying Ryan isn't a good QB, I'm just saying that Joe has proven he was worthy of the 1st round pick and worthy to be in discussions as one of the best young QB's in the league.

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' date='15 June 2010 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1276627456' post='421960']
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d814983b2/Flacco-to-Rice-1st-down

Ever seen that play?

Most of us have seen the potential that Flacco has, he just hasn't had the necessary weapons to really explore his abilities at this level. I don't think Ryan is bad and I don't think anyone here does, and it's definitely way too early to know who will have a better career. But, this season will be telling, and I expect Flacco to unleash.
[/quote]
I agree both teams have the best young quarterbacks in the game right now and I believe that we will dominate our conferences for years to come.

[H8R]

[quote name='#1falconfan' date='16 June 2010 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1276696231' post='422210']
I never said that Joe didn't play through a bad injury the other poster made it sound like Ryan was out for a hangnail. He had turf toe which ended some guys careers.
[/quote]


The lack of missing games still proves to be a advantage and proves his durability.

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='H8R' date='16 June 2010 - 09:51 AM' timestamp='1276696288' post='422211']
Why, I'm not a QB.... My point was Flacco shouldn't have to salvage 2 games stats in the chart becasue Ryan was hurt... that's what you were getting at with your post about Ryan missing 2 games. i'm not saying Ryan isn't a good QB, I'm just saying that Joe has proven he was worthy of the 1st round pick and worthy to be in discussions as one of the best young QB's in the league.
[/quote]
My point is that 2 games can make a difference in the stats and you cannot compare the stats. The 2 years I have been on this board I never once bashed Flacco I think that he is a good quarterback.

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='H8R' date='16 June 2010 - 09:53 AM' timestamp='1276696417' post='422215']
The lack of missing games still proves to be a advantage and proves his durability.
[/quote]
Durability has nothing to do with it, some players get hurt it happens. It is way too early to tell cause he only missed 2 games. If he missed games because of multiple injuries then I would say that he had durability issues.

[H8R]

[quote name='#1falconfan' date='16 June 2010 - 09:54 AM' timestamp='1276696453' post='422216']
My point is that 2 games can make a difference in the stats and you cannot compare the stats. The 2 years I have been on this board I never once bashed Flacco I think that he is a good quarterback.
[/quote]


The other side of the coin is that they could have very well been Ryans worst games statistically.

I never said Ryna wasn't durable, I did say that Flacoo IS. Do you not see the difference?

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='H8R' date='16 June 2010 - 09:59 AM' timestamp='1276696780' post='422222']
The other side of the coin is that they could have very well been Ryans worst games statistically.

I never said Ryna wasn't durable, I did say that Flacoo IS. Do you not see the difference?
[/quote]
Good point, but that is why I said you really cannot compare the two right now.

[lowrider]

Durability is so hard to decide who is and isn't. It's a lot of luck that a bad hit or something fluke happens to someone and not another. I mean conditioning, and being in healthy shape helps but its a lot of luck to stay healthy. But when I compare players I can't discount their injuries because they are just something to happen. Which is why I can't just say, well Carson Palmer was hurt last year so last year doesn't count. What then are we to compare to? So on the comparison of Flacco and Ryan, I would say that year one was a draw, year two Flacco won, and we will see how year three goes.

To be honest the first couple years don't even mean that much. I mean it's impressive what both of them have done, but realistically what is important what they do a little further down their career. No quarterback's legacy is determined over the first couple years of their career. And it will be easier to compare the two over a longer span of time.

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='lowrider' date='16 June 2010 - 10:16 AM' timestamp='1276697774' post='422225']
Durability is so hard to decide who is and isn't. It's a lot of luck that a bad hit or something fluke happens to someone and not another. I mean conditioning, and being in healthy shape helps but its a lot of luck to stay healthy. But when I compare players I can't discount their injuries because they are just something to happen. Which is why I can't just say, well Carson Palmer was hurt last year so last year doesn't count. What then are we to compare to? So on the comparison of Flacco and Ryan, I would say that year one was a draw, year two Flacco won, and we will see how year three goes.

To be honest the first couple years don't even mean that much. I mean it's impressive what both of them have done, but realistically what is important what they do a little further down their career. No quarterback's legacy is determined over the first couple years of their career. And it will be easier to compare the two over a longer span of time.
[/quote]
Unless you're Jamarcuss Russell