Schefter Reporting Ravens' Last Week Of OTA Cancelled

[darklight1216]

[quote name='EdReedFTW' date='08 June 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1276018927' post='419463']
Grrrr I knew it was Ed all along. I never did like him. Grrr
[/quote]
I always knew he was trouble.

[DHaran]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='08 June 2010 - 02:01 PM' timestamp='1276020081' post='419473']
I always knew he was trouble.
[/quote]

Actually it looks like it was a pretty widespread issue. I am sorry I do not have a link, only the text was emailed to me:

"One day after the Ravens were forced to cancel the final week of offseason practices, coach John Harbaugh called the offseason rules violation "embarrassing."
According to Harbaugh, six players complained for being held too late for meetings and two players reported they were held too long after practice. The infractions were reported to the players' union after the first voluntary passing camp in the middle of May."

I want names, and I want them off the team. And no, I don't care who it is. Real men want to win, and will do anything to do it, and that includes stay late and work extra hard. Pansies.

[svt2nv04]

[quote name='DHaran' date='08 June 2010 - 03:07 PM' timestamp='1276024057' post='419511']
I want names, and I want them off the team. And no, I don't care who it is. Real men want to win, and will do anything to do it, and that includes stay late and work extra hard. Pansies.
[/quote]

According to the news article on the home page ([url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/06/Harbaugh-_Cancelled_Practices_Embarrassing.aspx"]LINK[/url])..."Players' union representatives Todd Heap, Chris Carr and Derrick Mason approached Harbaugh following the first OTA in mid-May, voicing concerns about the amount of time several Ravens were spending either on the field or in the meeting rooms."

It goes on to say "As it turned out, six Ravens were found to be in meetings too long, while two practiced over the time limit as outlined by the current collective bargaining agreement.

The team then spoke with league officials, who resolved the issue with the NFLPA in the form of cancelled practices."

So there you go. You want Mason, Heap, and Carr off the team now?

[DHaran]

[quote name='svt2nv04' date='08 June 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1276026867' post='419545']
According to the news article on the home page ([url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/06/Harbaugh-_Cancelled_Practices_Embarrassing.aspx"]LINK[/url])..."Players' union representatives Todd Heap, Chris Carr and Derrick Mason approached Harbaugh following the first OTA in mid-May, voicing concerns about the amount of time several Ravens were spending either on the field or in the meeting rooms."

It goes on to say "As it turned out, six Ravens were found to be in meetings too long, while two practiced over the time limit as outlined by the current collective bargaining agreement.

The team then spoke with league officials, who resolved the issue with the NFLPA in the form of cancelled practices."

So there you go. You want Mason, Heap, and Carr off the team now?
[/quote]

If you read it, you can see it says those players approached Harbaugh to handle it, and it was handled. It wasn't until later that someone complained and they were approached by the NFL about it. I highly doubt Heap and Mason took to the NFLPA after Harbaugh listened to their concerns and addressed them immediately. However even if it was them who reported it to the NFL, then yea, get rid of em. Don't want any babies on this team. Multi-millionaires complaining about "working" too much is about as ridiculous as it gets. They hit it right on the head in the article put up a bit ago on BR front page, you can't tell people to back off if they are intense players, it's natural. I am almost positive it was Gaither being a big baby now more than ever, using an already settled situation to get back at the organization.

[WinnipegRaven]

I know I am going against the grain here, but we don't want something like what happened to Korey Stringer happening to one of our guys.

Not saying its all that hot, but being over-worked can lead to bad things... My daddy always said "When you find a good horse, don't ride him to death"


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/aug2001/nfl-a10.shtml

[plesiosaur]

[quote name='DHaran' date='08 June 2010 - 03:07 PM' timestamp='1276024057' post='419511']
I want names, and I want them off the team. And no, I don't care who it is. Real men want to win, and will do anything to do it, and that includes stay late and work extra hard. Pansies.
[/quote]

I don't understand how an individual complaining that one side is acting in violation of a contact makes them a "pansy." If a player is not complying with his contract and management complains, does that make Ozzie or Harbs a "pansy?"

[noy]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' date='07 June 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1275963435' post='419193']
I agree with most of what you're saying but I think we're coming to different conclusions.

"You're assuming that the player is wrong in his complaint."

Yes, and you're assuming he's correct in his complaint.

"Should we be reminded of Jamal Lewis, who was injured in a freakish accident?"

What does that have to do with training too hard? Football players get hurt all the time, it doesn't mean they're training so hard that they're falling to pieces. Yes, hard practices do increase the risk of injury. In case you didn't realize it, players are going to practice hard in training camp anyway.

"why would a player volunteer to a workout that is substantially higher in risk of injury than it should be?"

If a practice is too hard for them, then DON'T volunteer, that's why they call it optional.

"And like what has been said before, the players know their bodies and anybody who thinks otherwise is at fault."

I agree that players know their bodies, but that doesn't mean that they are infallible workout machines who always practice to their limit. Every athlete knows the feeling when you feel like its impossible to go any further and are feeling defeated. It's the coaches job to push them past that and recognize their full potential. Just because a player doesn't WANT to work any harder doesn't mean they're working as hard as they should be.

The bottom line for me is this: if you don't want to participate, fine. But why take away the opportunity from your other teammates?

PS: I think it's funny how people mention the Raiders as being a lazy team, yet they had the same thing happen to them a couple years back:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-otas-0608-20100607,0,5658981.story

"This isn't the first time that an NFL team has been penalized for such an infraction. Three years ago, the Oakland Raiders had to forfeit a week of offseason practices because they were too physical under then-rookie coach Lane Kiffin."
[/quote]

We could go back and forth with speculations all day, but I think this is just down to what we believe as individuals, and what actually happened in practice (which we will never know). A coach's job is to push the players beyond their breaking point, but there is definitely a ceiling to that push which a coach can easily go beyond if they are not careful enough. That's what I'm scared of.

It turns out both of us were wrong anyway because it was apparently accidentally leaked by one guy. No wonder none of this made sense...we finally have a team that makes sense to go to the Super Bowl and people are complaining about work ethic? Guess I'll just wait a day before speculating in the future, lol.

btw, that may have happened to the Raiders years ago, but this is a what have you done lately league. I recall, last season, an opponent of the Raiders relating to the game as a "scrim" because of how badly they beat them and how the Raiders' players acted. Whatever work ethic the Raiders used to have, they seem to be far removed from.

[DHaran]

[quote name='plesiosaur' date='08 June 2010 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1276030206' post='419585']
I don't understand how an individual complaining that one side is acting in violation of a contact makes them a "pansy." If a player is not complying with his contract and management complains, does that make Ozzie or Harbs a "pansy?"
[/quote]

Not a comparable situation. In this case, everyone else is punished for the complaints of a few who could have easily let it go, since it was already handled. Instead they decided to act childish and report it to the NFL after the fact. In your example only ONE player would be punished for misconduct, not the whole team. And let me remind you, these workouts were voluntary, if they had a problem, they could have left at the regularly scheduled times and ran what they thought was a slow enough tempo. Meanwhile, let the real men play.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='plesiosaur' date='08 June 2010 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1276030206' post='419585']
I don't understand how an individual complaining that one side is acting in violation of a contract makes them a "pansy." If a player is not complying with his contract and management complains, does that make Ozzie or Harbs a "pansy?"
[/quote]

Because it's football, not a lease agreement. Because these guys get paid hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars to do what the rest of us dream of. Because staying in extra meetings in pursuit of a Super Bowl isn't that bad a gig.

How many of you would stay for extra meetings for a chance to play football for a living? How many of you would rat on your coach because he talked to you too long? How many of you would trade jobs with the guys that complained and keep your mouth shut about '[i]practice was tough[/i]' or '[i]meetings were long[/i]' just for a chance to be in their shoes?

The players involved crossed a bridge that can't be used twice. They used the players association to tell their coach that the players are in charge. It's a disgusting course of action and for some people, it's inexcusable. I realize in this world of 'the contract says' that it's the way things are... but you've got to be kidding, right? Too long in meetings? Practice a little rough? That's not football. Go work in a factory...

We're talking about dream stuff, where men get to pursue the Super Bowl and get to play a game for riches. And some of them are whining that the dream cloud doesn't always have silver lining... Incredible considering the world around them.

I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with the idea that this was even remotely OK if done on purpose. It's not right. It's not even close to right. I don't care who comes out as the culprit. There are things you don't do, even if it's in your contract.

[Malkavian Raven]

I think Zhamtao is onto something there... maybe the coaches & front office should restrict their "sitting on their butt" time, driving in their sports car time, swimming in their pool time and limit how much they can talk, because they could get winded from all that exhausting exercise.

Pssh, not only would I drop my job in a heartbeat -- I'd play a more hazardous position for a great deal less than what these guys get paid. You cover my travel, food, lodgings and medical bills and give me an extra $100,000 to live off of each year (what I make in a year would be enough to live off of for 5 years, I play 10 years and I could retire!)... put me in as a running back!! I'll bang!

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='plesiosaur' date='08 June 2010 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1276038032' post='419636']
Contract.
Legal contract.
[/quote]

Football.
Professional football.

Go watch contract writing on Sundays.

[plesiosaur]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='08 June 2010 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1276038134' post='419637']
Football.
Professional football.

Go watch contract writing on Sundays.
[/quote]

wow what a well thought out response!!!
Too bad you failed at actually addressing the issue...

[plesiosaur]

[quote name='DHaran' date='08 June 2010 - 06:12 PM' timestamp='1276035143' post='419617']
Not a comparable situation. In this case, everyone else is punished for the complaints of a few who could have easily let it go, since it was already handled. Instead they decided to act childish and report it to the NFL after the fact. In your example only ONE player would be punished for misconduct, not the whole team. And let me remind you, these workouts were voluntary, if they had a problem, they could have left at the regularly scheduled times and ran what they thought was a slow enough tempo. Meanwhile, let the real men play.
[/quote]

It's actually comparable. Both sides need to live up to their own ends of the contract, which they both agreed on. It's not that difficult.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='plesiosaur' date='08 June 2010 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1276038032' post='419636']
Contract.
Legal contract.

Hyperbole and begging questions don't resolve the fact that the entities agreed on terms and now one side is not fulfilling the terms.

Sorry dude, pushing around workers, whether they're making 10 bucks an hour or 10 bucks a second, is wrong, and, illegal.
[/quote]

If you think this was a case of pushing around workers, you've got a lot to learn. And do us a favor and don't modify your posts after the fact.

[plesiosaur]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='08 June 2010 - 07:54 PM' timestamp='1276041253' post='419665']
I dare say I've offered far more to the discussion that you, and my response was as well thought out as your original post. And no, I didn't fail to address the issue - you failed to address the very nature of my original comments.

But why am I wasting my time with you? Ignored.
[/quote]

Apparently you extend your ignoring to contracts as well. That's gonna be great when your employer decides to ignore the terms of your contract, I suppose.

[FlaccoFlicker]

guys cmon lashing out at each other isnt the way we all have different opinions about the sitch please respect them

[theFRANCHISE]

Guys, let's get back on-topic.

If you'd like to continue your personal debate, please take it to PM. Otherwise, this is gradually getting more and more off-topic (dangerously close to personal attack territory) and leaves the thread in danger of being closed.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='08 June 2010 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1276042808' post='419676']
Guys, let's get back on-topic.

If you'd like to continue your personal debate, please take it to PM. Otherwise, this is gradually getting more and more off-topic (dangerously close to personal attack territory) and leaves the thread in danger of being closed.
[/quote]

Don't worry about me, Franny. I counted to ten and I'm fine. People think what they think about the topic, and that long post before the skirmish speaks to my views on the topic just fine.

Thanks Flicker and Franny for keeping me balanced.

[FlaccoFlicker]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='08 June 2010 - 08:28 PM' timestamp='1276043335' post='419679']
Don't worry about me, Franny. I counted to ten and I'm fine. People think what they think about the topic, and that long post before the skirmish speaks to my views on the topic just fine.

Thanks Flicker and Franny for keeping me balanced.
[/quote]
we all part of the same fanbase family lol

[plesiosaur]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='08 June 2010 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1276042808' post='419676']
Guys, let's get back on-topic.

If you'd like to continue your personal debate, please take it to PM. Otherwise, this is gradually getting more and more off-topic (dangerously close to personal attack territory) and leaves the thread in danger of being closed.
[/quote]

I'm fine with that. Issues should be answered concisely, not sideswiped.

Whoever "blew the whistle" obviously complained legitimately. It's not like a contract is void because someone makes a load of money.

I am so sorry for editing!

Again, we're not even sure a player actually complained, so it could just be a labor/management issue.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='FlaccoFlicker' date='08 June 2010 - 08:31 PM' timestamp='1276043501' post='419680']
we all part of the same fanbase family lol
[/quote]

Too true. I can always use a reminder. Regardless of how we disagree, we're all Ravens fans! Group hug? I love you, Plesiosaur!

[plesiosaur]

[quote name='Zhamtao' date='08 June 2010 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1276043798' post='419684']
Too true. I can always use a reminder. Regardless of how we disagree, we're all Ravens fans! Group hug? I love you, Plesiosaur!


[/quote]


those flowers aren't purple!!!

You go man!

[FlaccoFlicker]

went back and evened up those negs lol

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='plesiosaur' date='08 June 2010 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1276044764' post='419693']
those flowers aren't purple!!!

You go man!
[/quote]

They're purple on the inside.

[flynismo]

I have no idea if this is considered off topic, but I'mma throw my .02 in....

I dont have a problem with those three snitchin' lol...

Normally I'd be the first to make fun of multi-gajillionaires who complain about having to work so hard/much.

But, my main (and only real) concern here is the safety of our boys. Yes that may be silly because this is football after all, but given the climate conditions, it is very dangerous to push these guys so hard.
I dont want to see anyone die because our staff is a bunch of hardasses.
And when you consider the guys we have and their work ethic and character, it says a lot if people start stepping up and complaining, because our guys just dont do that.

Also, about that whole contract issue....I'm all about honoring your contract, and it goes both ways. It's one thing to ask guys to do more than their supposed to. It's another to force them...

Lets give the players the benefit of the doubt on this one.

[FlaccoFlicker]

[quote name='flynismo' date='08 June 2010 - 09:09 PM' timestamp='1276045742' post='419710']
I have no idea if this is considered off topic, but I'mma throw my .02 in....

I dont have a problem with those three snitchin' lol...

Normally I'd be the first to make fun of multi-gajillionaires who complain about having to work so hard/much.

But, my main (and only real) concern here is the safety of our boys. Yes that may be silly because this is football after all, but given the climate conditions, it is very dangerous to push these guys so hard.
I dont want to see anyone die because our staff is a bunch of hardasses.
And when you consider the guys we have and their work ethic and character, it says a lot if people start stepping up and complaining, because our guys just dont do that.

Also, about that whole contract issue....I'm all about honoring your contract, and it goes both ways. It's one thing to ask guys to do more than their supposed to. It's another to force them...

Lets give the players the benefit of the doubt on this one.
[/quote]
well said Fly,and I agree and I believe someone brought up the player that dies due to heat exhaustion(think I even mentioned it),but really I don't think it was ment to be a complaining thing just someone stating something and the wrong person overhearing it,that's gotten most of us in trouble sometime in our lives I believe.

[flynismo]

[quote name='FlaccoFlicker' date='08 June 2010 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1276045887' post='419713']
well said Fly,and I agree and I believe someone brought up the player that dies due to heat exhaustion(think I even mentioned it),but really I don't think it was ment to be a complaining thing just someone stating something and the wrong person overhearing it,that's gotten most of us in trouble sometime in our lives I believe.
[/quote]


Oh, well sorry if I'm talking gibberish, lol...I only read the OP and the last page of the thread cuz I dont feel like reading five pages of posts..

I think I see what's going on, judging by the OP and your response...I gathered that this was supposd to be a private in-house complaint, then the wrong people found out...

Although I can certainly sympathise with the fans who are upset that they SHOULD bust their tails considering the money they make, I just feel that extreme practice sessions this time of the year is totally unnecessary...now, if we practiced in a climate controlled dome, my opinion may be slightly different, although there still is the matter of contractual obligations and what it does and does not entail..

[Purple Nurple]

"Players' union representatives Todd Heap, Chris Carr and Derrick Mason approached Harbaugh following the first OTA in mid-May, voicing concerns about the amount of time several Ravens were spending either on the field or in the meeting rooms."

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/06/Harbaugh-_Cancelled_Practices_Embarrassing.aspx"]Link[/url]


....does this mean Heap, Carr, and Mason are responsible for this?

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' date='09 June 2010 - 01:24 AM' timestamp='1276061056' post='419852']
"Players' union representatives Todd Heap, Chris Carr and Derrick Mason approached Harbaugh following the first OTA in mid-May, voicing concerns about the amount of time several Ravens were spending either on the field or in the meeting rooms."

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/06/Harbaugh-_Cancelled_Practices_Embarrassing.aspx"]Link[/url]


....does this mean Heap, Carr, and Mason are responsible for this?
[/quote]
I think it's saying that those guys are the ones who told Harbs that other players were being treated unfairly.

[Purple Nurple]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' date='09 June 2010 - 01:24 AM' timestamp='1276061056' post='419852']
"Players' union representatives Todd Heap, Chris Carr and Derrick Mason approached Harbaugh following the first OTA in mid-May, voicing concerns about the amount of time several Ravens were spending either on the field or in the meeting rooms."

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/06/Harbaugh-_Cancelled_Practices_Embarrassing.aspx"]Link[/url]


....does this mean Heap, Carr, and Mason are responsible for this?
[/quote]


[quote name='darklight1216' date='09 June 2010 - 01:29 AM' timestamp='1276061390' post='419856']
I think it's saying that those guys are the ones who told Harbs that other players were being treated unfairly.
[/quote]


Right, I took that literally as well. I meant as far as who eventually said something......did they plant the seed to complain in somebody, did THEY say something? I wonder who the "several Ravens" they were concerned about are?......

Theres now three names associated with this, wonder where it leads?