Anquan Boldin Not A Number #1 Receiver?

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' date='03 June 2010 - 01:01 AM' timestamp='1275541268' post='417160']
.... no. Statistics mean nothing to me. If Boldin wins games for us I'm happy. A #1 receiver isn't defined by the numbers he puts up but by how he affects the game. We have other good receivers (Mason, Stallworth) who will be vastly improved by his presence. Both Boldin and Mason deserve double coverage, freeing up Heap, Clayton, Williams, Pitta, Dickson, McClain and Rice.

Of course I expect production from Boldin, but to say it's his failure if he doesn't break 1,500 yards is stupid. Think about how many weapons we have, there just isn't that many yards to go around. Only Andre Johnson had that many yards last year and that's because he's and absolute monster and they throw to him every play. Boldin doesn't have to be Andre, lets just let him be Boldin (its worked out well for him so far).
[/quote]

Thank you. I never said he would be a failure if he didn't do it but to here some of you guys talk it seems like he is capable of far more. Yall are killing me with the stats. His 79. something yards a game are the best in history and how he is a true 1. WoW. You make him sound like he's the best in the game so if that is true posting the best numbers should be no prob right.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='flynismo' date='07 June 2010 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1275931288' post='418827']
Randy Moss went for even less than what we gave up for Boldin...or didn't someone tell you?
Santonio Holmes just went for a 5th.
I can come up with a hundred and one other trades where guys have been traded way over or under their actual talent level.

Boldin's elite, and a possible HOF...whether you agree or not doesn't change that.
[/quote]
Character issue guys, that like to use drugs, that's the best you can come up with. Really! hundreds i haven't heard one.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='berad' date='07 June 2010 - 01:29 PM' timestamp='1275931786' post='418830']
Agree 1000x times over!

Trade value and player ability are two entirely different things.

Ask Roy Williams in Dallas..
[/quote] All with character issues and again a cosigner.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='flynismo' date='08 June 2010 - 04:40 AM' timestamp='1275925254' post='418780']
Kinda like what I was saying before...it appears that if track speed were so important, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Wayne, Marshall and Colston never got the memo.

So much for the "you're not a #1 unless you have a flashy 40-" theory.
[/quote]
Love your work, nismo.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='RBates' date='08 June 2010 - 04:31 AM' timestamp='1275985880' post='419281']
Thank you. I never said he would be a failure if he didn't do it but to here some of you guys talk it seems like he is capable of far more. Yall are killing me with the stats. His 79. something yards a game are the best in history and how he is a true 1. WoW. You make him sound like he's the best in the game so if that is true posting the best numbers should be no prob right.
[/quote]

look i don't expect him to get it either, i was being sarcastic. But the way yall hype the guy i would not be surprised if you didn't believe it was possible. Honestly there might be a tight end that out plays our true 1 this year.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='RBates' date='08 June 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1275986648' post='419287']
ame='RBates' date='08 June 2010 - 04:31 AM' timestamp='1275985880' post='419281']

look i don't expect him to get it either, i was being sarcastic. But the way yall hype the guy i would not be surprised if you didn't believe it was possible. Honestly there might be a tight end that out plays our true 1 this year.
[/quote]
Well it's not impossible...

[BuckWilds]

I heard Boldin doesn't have [b]Badeebop[/b], and if a receiver doesn't have [b]Badeebop[/b], he's just no good! We better hope some sportswriter says Boldin has [b]Badeebop[/b] soon!

[WinnipegRaven]

lol - someone a few pages back trying to say his yds/game was nothing special... I knew it was good, but had no freaking clue its the best of all time.

But no... the WR in the league who averages the most yds per game, heck no, he's not a #1WR

[T-ray]

Wow, who cares if Boldin doesn't run a fast '40'... Last time I checked, Devin Hester is one of the fastest recievers in the NFL, if not THE fastest, and I don't think he's a number 1 guy. As long as a reciever produces, I'm fine with it. Derrick Mason wasn't supposed to be a number 1 either, but he proved you all wrongo.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='RBates' date='07 June 2010 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1275924191' post='418772']
79 plus yards per game is really good. Playing next to Fitz and over Breaston might be a large reason for some of that success. Kurt Warner throwing you the football can't hurt either. Look the bottom line is we got the guy for a 3th and 4th and you are defending him as a true one. Number One's go for number 1's or didn't someone tell u.
[/quote]
Steve Breaston was non-existent before 2008, with only 92 Receiving Yards throughout his previous Season. He was able to reach the 1,000 mark, barely, only because of Anquan's absence after the Jets game. Kurt Warner gathered 17 TDs and 14 INTs with Arizona, before returning to brilliance for 2 and 1/2 Seasons. You speak of the man as if his production flourished after Warner's and Breaston's arrival. He will be 30 by the end of October, and hasn't finished a full Season because of injuries since 2006. Yet you're implying that the decrease in compensation value was due to some flaw in his ability?

[flynismo]

[quote name='RBates' date='08 June 2010 - 03:36 AM' timestamp='1275986193' post='419284']
All with character issues and again a cosigner.
[/quote]


The point is, what a player is traded for means nothing.
Boldin was expendable because he wanted a larger contract, and AZ already has Fitz, Breaston and Doucet, and a plethoria of other holes they need to fill.
just because we took advantage of the situation does not make Boldin any less of a player.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RBates' date='08 June 2010 - 03:35 AM' timestamp='1275986114' post='419283']
Character issue guys, that like to use drugs, that's the best you can come up with. Really! hundreds i haven't heard one.
[/quote]


[i]<be nice>[/i]

I'll say it again. What a player is traded for DOES NOT REFLECT HIS TALENT LEVEL.

As you just proved with your witty retort in a futile attempt at saving face.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RBates' date='08 June 2010 - 03:44 AM' timestamp='1275986648' post='419287']
ame='RBates' date='08 June 2010 - 04:31 AM' timestamp='1275985880' post='419281']

look i don't expect him to get it either, i was being sarcastic. But the way yall hype the guy i would not be surprised if you didn't believe it was possible. Honestly there might be a tight end that out plays our true 1 this year.
[/quote]


No one here said Boldin is THE BEST. We are saying that he IS elite.
It IS possible Boldin does it, because he clearly is talented enough to, but no one is expecting him to due to the system we play in.

The snide comment about a TE outperforming Boldin shows that you are abandoning reason...dont go down that road, you've been here a while and I know you're better than that.

Anywho, this is getting old, and there are other threads to troll...

[Guest RBates]

Listen im gonna make one post for all of yall writing back and forth because the argument is lacking focus. I never said that Boldin will not be a good receiver for us. Im just agreeing to disagree with the guys already putting the man in the hall of fame or saying that he is an elite receiver in the game. Yall are all right when you bring out the stats because numbers don't lie but let me say this. If Mason had to see the Rams twice a year and the Seahawks and the 49ers of old. Then i think he would have similar numbers. Let's face it those two teams are awful and have been for a long time. When Boldin goes from the weakest division in football to one of the best, we will see who's right. But as of right now this post is peer speculation. I urge you to wait and see im taking all yalls names down so this is not the last you'll hear about this. Im emailing, posting , coming to your jobs and everything. There will be no hiding from me.....lol Here's to Boldin, all the best though buddy But you are not in a sham division anymore.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

So now being a #1 depends on what divison you play in? Fitz played on the same team in the same division... so he's not elite.

Is Ward not a true number 1? He doesn't have blow away speed, not a big play threat, is getting up there in age... ect. But the fact of the matter is that he is. He is very comparable to Boldin in that he makes the catches over the middle, works hard for the YAC, is a great blocker. Ward plays in the AFC North, the division you're saying that type of receiver cannot thrive in. Ward has been the #1 receiver for the Steelers who have won 2 Super Bowls. He's a posession receiver like Boldin. He's a number one because he is the biggest threat on the field to do damage in the passing game.

Boldin is a number 1 because he is our biggest threat in the passing game. He may not have break away speed to score on 1 play, but if you don't shut him down he will take 8-10 yards on every play and get there with 6 catches. Because he is so physical you have to double team him. If he catches the ball with space, good luck taking him down. He opens up the game for the RB, TE, and other WR's simply by being on the field. Whether he puts up great numbers here or not, we will be a better team simply by his presence.

You can accept the stats or not, but he's put up numbers as the young #1. His production didn't drop when Fitz took over and got most of the targets. His production didn't drop when Breaston broke out and took even more of the targets away. His production didn't drop much when he started missing games. If you think his injuries are an issue, when they injuries are an issue with Ray Lewis bc if you look at the percentage of time missed to possible time played, Lewis' is higher.

But you know what, all these arguments for both sides don't mean anything. Opinion is opinion. Here's a [b]FACT[b/] the #1 receiver by definition is the guy whose name is placed first on the depth chart. That is the only TRUE marker for what a #1 receiver is. In the history of the NFL they have come in all shapes and sizes, with all sorts of production, there have been deep threats, big possession type guys, blockers, slot guys, jump ball guys... so the "type" of receiver doesnt matter in defining a number 1. Boldin's name is first on the Ravens depth chart. That makes him a "true" number 1. It is true that his name appears there, so he is truly a #1. He is also a "true" #2, because in Arizon his name appeared second to Larry Fitzgeral. That is, by and far, the only thing that matters in defining a number 1 receiver, because everything else is just opinion.

If you want to say he's not, please do more than just cite the opinion of some analyst. So far all I've seen to say he's not is saying that the evidence for him being a number 1 doesn't "count". What does count then? Please define #1 for me. Please tell me what is the criteria, and which of those criteria Boldin does not fit. I challange to to define those criteria, and I will supply you several "true" number 1's that you will agree with being true #1's that don't fit your criteria.

And I would like to see your argument against his name appearing 1st on the depth chart. Is there a reason that doesn't count?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

just one more thing, to the statement that a 1,000 yard season is no big deal... and to the nostalgic fella who claimed it was only a big deal back in the day, ill give you this: it's not a big deal to do it in a season. but to do it season, after season, after season, after season... well that IS.

the most 1,000 yard season in a career is 14 by Jerry Rice who did it in 14 out of 16 season. Next is Tim Brown who did it in 9 out of 9 season. Next best is a bunch tied with 8 including TO, Moss, Bruce, Harrison, Cris Carter, Holt, Rod Smith, and Largent who did it in a varying number of seasons.

Boldin currently has 6 1000+ yard season in 7 years. 2 more and he is among that group of receivers who are all considered true number 1's... and a pretty elite list of the best receivers of all time.

So, I would like to see anyone try and argue that his production is meaningless or not that great. No stats don't matter the most. But clearly this one does, since every guy near the top of this list (who boldin is likely to catch, and possibly even take over 2nd place) is a pretty short list of some of the greatest of all-time, and definitely the greatest of the modern era.

Being in that sort of company, how is it again he's not a true number one receiver? I guess some of those guys aren't true number ones either.

Most interestingly of that list is Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt who played together. Kinda reminds me of Fitz and Boldin.... but I guess that means if Holt had left the Rams during that team's dominance, he wouldn't have been a true #1 for the team he went to. Seems silly to even think that, but that's the argument that has been posed against Boldin.

[berad]

[quote name='RBates' date='09 June 2010 - 03:15 AM' timestamp='1276067735' post='419869']
Listen im gonna make one post for all of yall writing back and forth because the argument is lacking focus. I never said that Boldin will not be a good receiver for us. Im just agreeing to disagree with the guys already putting the man in the hall of fame or saying that he is an elite receiver in the game. Yall are all right when you bring out the stats because numbers don't lie but let me say this. If Mason had to see the Rams twice a year and the Seahawks and the 49ers of old then, Then i think he would have similar numbers. Let's face it those two teams are awful and have been for a long time. When Boldin goes from the weakest division in football to one of the best, we will see who's right. But as of right now this post is peer speculation. I urge you to wait and see im taking all yalls names down to this is not the last you'll hear about this. Im emailing, posting , coming to your jobs and everything. There will be no hiding from me.....lol Here's to Boldin, all the best though buddy But you are not in a sham division anymore.
[/quote]

Yeah, because the Cardinals were the perennial powerhouse of the NFC West The Seahawks [i]dominated[/i] the division for the longest time and the Rams were significantly better than the Cards until recently. The 49ers, sure, they were bad ever since Steve Mariucci left.

The team wasn't over .500 the first five years of Boldin's career yet he still produced. He was one of the few bright spots on that dismal squad. And even when the Cardinals became successful, he continued his outstanding production.

There's really nothing bad to say about the guy. I just have my fingers crossed in the hopes he stays healthy all year *knock on wood*

[-Truth-]

[quote name='berad' date='09 June 2010 - 11:21 AM' timestamp='1276100470' post='419959']
Yeah, because the Cardinals were the perennial powerhouse of the NFC West The Seahawks [i]dominated[/i] the division for the longest time and the Rams were significantly better than the Cards until recently. The 49ers, sure, they were bad ever since Steve Mariucci left.

The team wasn't over .500 the first five years of Boldin's career yet he still produced. He was one of the few bright spots on that dismal squad. And even when the Cardinals became successful, he continued his outstanding production.

There's really nothing bad to say about the guy. I just have my fingers crossed in the hopes he stays healthy all year *knock on wood*
[/quote]
Exactly. The Rams were in the Playoffs in each of Boldin's 1st 2 years, and Seattle was in the Postseason for 5 straight years after Anquan's arrival. Sure it wasn't the most competitive Division, but it certainly wasn't the absolute worst before the last few Seasons. If the Cardinals were dismantling each Division opponent year after year, your argument would make a bit more sense, but typically, they were on the opposite end of a blowout.

[Guest RBates]

wow finally we all agree Im so happy now. But make no mistake about it even though Boldin is in a tougher division with Flacco at the helm he will be something special. Not that he isn't already, i just have to see you do it in our division before you earn my respect.

[reediddy]

Boldin may not be classified as a #1 but he will be a #1 in our offense, and he is the perfect fit in this division. We need receivers to go over the middle and make tough catches; this guy is on par with Steve Smith in terms of toughness, absolutely ridiculous ability to shrug off a broken bone and return to make an impact. Prisco is an idiot he said Polamalu is overrated once I saw that he completely lost all credibility

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

There really have been made some thorough and compelling arguments made with regards to the calibre and elite nature of Boldin as a receiver.

Anquan Boldin is a prototype receiver; the qualities he brings to the field are different to your run of the mill wideout.

[b]You get toughness[/b]. Most receivers run out of bounds once they can't make any more yards without contact. Boldin drops his shoulder and runs over you - linebacker or defensive back - it does not matter. He'll run those routes over the middle too, where many receivers fear to go. Boldin loves contact!

[b]You get amazing hands.[/b] Boldin has hands as sound as anyone in the league, using his physicality to generate seperation; whilst wrestling the ball away in contested situations.

[b]You get [u]Y[/u]ards [u]A[/u]fter [u]C[/u]atch.[/b] Boldin fights hard for every single inch; and that is Ravens football! I would argue he is the best receiver in the game at getting extra yards after the catch.

[b]You get run blocking.[/b] Again, the toughness of Boldin will shine as he lays out defensive backs down the field for Rice, McGahee and co. It's essentially like having an extra tight end out there at all times in terms of what he offers with his blocking.

There's no point me listing stats, that's been done so many times already. Just tryna illustrate to the doubters the intangibles he brings to our team.

I look forward to the Ravens using Boldin, in accordance with our running game, to control the clock and continue to pound opponents, even through the air.

Welcome aboard, Quan!

[Birdofpray]

Boldin is a number one, a big time player, clutch, a-go-to guy what ever you want to call him. there is something to be said for Fitz helping him with coverage and the fact that ARZ had one of the best passing offenses in the nfl. but you still have to make plays and that's what boldin is a play maker, Flaco will be happy to have him!

[flynismo]

[quote name='Birdofpray' date='11 June 2010 - 01:43 PM' timestamp='1276278182' post='421010']
Boldin is a number one, a big time player, clutch, a-go-to guy what ever you want to call him. there is something to be said for Fitz helping him with coverage and the fact that ARZ had one of the best passing offenses in the nfl. but you still have to make plays and that's what boldin is a play maker, Flaco will be happy to have him!
[/quote]


I would argue that Boldin is one of the biggest reasons AZ's passing game was so good...but I know what you're saying.


birdofpray, eh? Never met a god fearing bird before...Edgar Allen Poe is probably rolling in his grave right now, lol..

[lowrider]

[quote name='flynismo' date='11 June 2010 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1276285457' post='421065']
I would argue that Boldin is one of the biggest reasons AZ's passing game was so good...but I know what you're saying.


birdofpray, eh? Never met a god fearing bird before...Edgar Allen Poe is probably rolling in his grave right now, lol..
[/quote]
haha. Flynismo I would give you a plus one but your picture of the guy picking his nose/poking his eye freaks me out a little too much. So they cancel out.

I found most of this thread to be a discussion over the definition of a number one receiver over anything else. I consider a number one to be a receiver that is dependable and makes big plays when the team needs it. Which I guess by that definition I wouldn't have said that Boldin was really a clear cut number two receiver at Arizona. I would have called him more of 1b. Great receivers come in all shapes and sizes and have different talents, but dependability and consistency seperates them from the first tier to the second tier. And imo Boldin has been dependable and consistent his whole career.

People can say all they want about the stupid arguement he played in a weaker division. It's funny because people take credit away from Boldin for that but everyone still gets on their knees for Fitzgerald and doesn't say "he plays for a bad division, he isn't as good as the first tier of receivers". Just a stupid arguement.

Another thing is people act like Boldin got single covered everytime and Fitzgerald was triple teamed. Which is ridiculous. Boldin opened up Fitzgerald as much as Fitzgerald opened up Boldin.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='flynismo' date='12 June 2010 - 08:44 AM' timestamp='1276285457' post='421065']
I would argue that Boldin is one of the biggest reasons AZ's passing game was so good...but I know what you're saying.


birdofpray, eh? Never met a god fearing bird before...Edgar Allen Poe is probably rolling in his grave right now, lol..
[/quote]

[BloodRaven]

I hope in terms of longevity that taking Boldin over Marshall was the right choice.

[grape drank]

well the definition of #1 reciever is getting a little bit scrambled. A #1 reciever (besides having the #1 alignment) is a reveiever who you know if tough situations will go hard, and come down with the ball past the first down marker, or get the proper amount of YAC. Perhaps boldin isn't 6'5" and also doesnt run a 4.4 like MEGATRON, but his hands are fantastic, his route running is impecable and he's tough as nails. He's a number one reciever in my mind.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='12 June 2010 - 03:02 AM' timestamp='1276326129' post='421157']
I hope in terms of longevity that taking Boldin over Marshall was the right choice.
[/quote]

Well they're not exactly equivalent, we would have had to trade more than 2 second round draft picks (since Miami's pick was better), and then we would have had to give him a pretty big contract.

Marshall:

4/14/2010: Signed a five-year, $47.3 million contract. The deal contains $12.5 million guaranteed, including a $5.5 million signing bonus and $6 million of Marshall's 2012 salary barring a league suspension in the first three years. 2010: $4 million, 2011: $6.5 million (+ $3 million roster bonus due 4/2), 2012: $9 million, 2013-2014: Under Contract, 2015: Free Agent

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3653


Boldin:

3/5/2010: Signed a four-year, $28 million contract. The deal includes $10 million guaranteed. 2010: $2 million, 2011-2013: $6 million, 2014: Free Agent

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=nfl&id=2078

[DMT]

[quote name='berad' date='09 June 2010 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1276100470' post='419959']
Yeah, because the Cardinals were the perennial powerhouse of the NFC West The Seahawks [i]dominated[/i] the division for the longest time and the Rams were significantly better than the Cards until recently. The 49ers, sure, they were bad ever since Steve Mariucci left.

The team wasn't over .500 the first five years of Boldin's career yet he still produced. He was one of the few bright spots on that dismal squad. And even when the Cardinals became successful, he continued his outstanding production.

There's really nothing bad to say about the guy. I just have my fingers crossed in the hopes he stays healthy all year *knock on wood*
[/quote]

The Seahawks were dominant before Kurt Warner's resurgence.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='BloodRaven' date='12 June 2010 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1276326129' post='421157']
I hope in terms of longevity that taking Boldin over Marshall was the right choice.
[/quote]
I think the character issues and off-field problems may have been what put us off Marshall. He's already been in a fair bit of trouble legally and obviously has had multiple issues with coaches and the front office in Denver.