Troy Polamalu Best Player in AFC North?

[slugz1]

[quote name='lowrider' date='25 May 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1274819697' post='414248']
Well assuming that they all three are on the field playing, I think that Troy is the better player. He just changes that defense and is everywhere. I hold my breathe when Reed has to tackle, and Lewis has lost a step. I think their leadership are basically equal. Lewis and Reed are still very good, but I still think Troy is better.
[/quote]


Really the only thing Troy has over Reed right now is the takling part and thats due to Reed injury. When both are healthy who get the ball passed their way? Troy is the answer now Qb would even try Reed the way they try Troy. Troy got his name from being a wild man jumping over people to make the takle on ST and stuff. Yeah Troy may have schemes based around him yeah but what are they just schemes a way to mask players weakness. Forget all the stats Ed Reed constantly gets thrown away from and still makes plays. Almost every Int he had was on the other side of the field. I dont take nothing away from Troy but thats like trynna compare Jordan to Kobe you just cant do it.

[WinnipegRaven]

I don't know about this one boys.... Polamalu NOW vs Reed NOW.... Reed in his prime vs Polamalu in his prime. Tough one to call. As one of our Steelers posters have pointed out they are 2 different types of players with VERY different attributes.

Stating "they just schemes a way to mask players weakness" is weak in itself... How many other players can shift around a field like he does and stil be as effective. He plays LB, Safety, nickle, blitzes off the edge etc etc etc and is extremely reliable in coverage.

Can't say I have ever seen a football player quite the same as Polamalu

[Corvus]

James Walker is one of the better analysts out there and Polamalu is a fantastic player when healthy. But when the question is asked "who is the best player in the afc north" I personally can't include someone coming off an injury plagued season because to me the question is more of a present tense question. This also means I wouldn't include our own Ed Reed in this current discussion either. Ray Rice, Ray Lewis, Lamarr Woodley, Leon Hall, Jonathan Joseph, Haloti Ngata, Josh Cribbs, and even Polamalu's fellow man in the secondary Ike Taylor all were on top of their games last year (and most of them have been for their career) so I personally would put all of the above players ahead of Polamalu for the time being.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Twoo' date='26 May 2010 - 09:11 AM' timestamp='1274879507' post='414538']
Troy is the best strong safety in the AFC North, but it's one heck of a long shot to call him the best player. Ed Reed is without a doubt the best player in the AFC North.

[b]Ed Reed:[/b]
6x probowler, 6x all pro, NFL defensive player of the year
458 tackles, 70 pdef, 46 interceptions for 1,255 yards

[b]Troy Palamalalalmalu:[/b]
5x probowler, 3x all pro
452 tackles, 60 pdef, 20 interceptions for 227 yards

That being said, how are you going to tell me Troy is a better player than Ed? James Walker is an idiot.
[/quote]

Those numbers are actually pretty comparable. Then consider Ed Reed has one more year in the league.

Look folks they are asked to do different things. No one does what is asked of them better than these two. Chillax.

[flynismo]

The whole Ed Reed vs. Hairball debate is moot, since neither are the best player in the AFCN. In fact, you could argue that neither are even the best player on their team.

If we're talking career achievements (which is what we're doing when we start comparing their All Pro nominations, stats, etc) then clearly Ray Lewis is the best player, not Reed or Hairball.

If we're talking about on the field talent, then Ngata, Suggs, Roethlisberger and Shaun Rogers need to get some serious attention in this conversation as well.

If we're talking about talent + potential, then the only debate is whether the crown goes to Flacco, Rice or Oher.

I'm gonna pull a Clinton and ask you to define the word "best" before calling a player the best (ie what is the criteria)

[Brendan Ayres]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='26 May 2010 - 04:46 PM' timestamp='1274903219' post='414672']
Those numbers are actually pretty comparable. Then consider Ed Reed has one more year in the league.

Look folks they are asked to do different things. No one does what is asked of them better than these two. Chillax.
[/quote]

I sure would love to have both of them in my secondary. That wouldn't even be fair to QBs.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='flynismo' date='26 May 2010 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1274907980' post='414698']
The whole Ed Reed vs. Hairball debate is moot, since neither are the best player in the AFCN. In fact, you could argue that neither are even the best player on their team.

If we're talking career achievements (which is what we're doing when we start comparing their All Pro nominations, stats, etc) then clearly Ray Lewis is the best player, not Reed or Hairball.

If we're talking about on the field talent, then Ngata, Suggs, Roethlisberger and Shaun Rogers need to get some serious attention in this conversation as well.
[b]
If we're talking about talent + potential, then the only debate is whether the crown goes to Flacco, Rice or Oher.[/b]

I'm gonna pull a Clinton and ask you to define the word "best" before calling a player the best (ie what is the criteria)
[/quote]

You need to add a bunch of names to that last if you're going to talk about potential. And in my opinion, Colt McCoy has an incredible up-side (poor guy) and deserves to be mentioned.

[TSizzle00]

I guess since Ed Reed wont ever be 100% again Troy can be #1 by default LOL.

[H8R]

Reed has only missed a full 16 game season twice. Troy has missed it 3 times, so stats may be a bit misleading. However, should we question Ed's versatility? Troy has missed 19 games over his career, Ed has missed 10. Troy has missed a WHOLE seasons+ worth of games. Not to mention Ed has played for a year longer. There is no clear cut answer for this question, it's all opinion based.

[kash96ravenstotalfan]

[quote name='MKdave' date='26 May 2010 - 09:55 AM' timestamp='1274882141' post='414552']
Assuming Troy returns to 100% of his previous form, (which is a dangerous assumption) he's hands down the best player in the AFCN, potentially the NFL. Of course the reason that Ed isn't is that he never came back from an injury to full strength so Polamalu could very well suffer a similar fate, and should he have to tone down his physicality he'll be no where near as capable of adjusting and remaining productive as Ed was. For me, Reed's virtual inability to solo tackle means that, even as a defensive back, he's a liability in the running game. And when you have gaps as big as that in you're game then you can't be the best. Especially at a position that has such a varied job desciption. I'd say Rice is in the conversation for best AFCN player, to a greater extent than both Ray and Ed, but I'd still give it to a healthy Polamalu because of how terrible the Steelers were without him.
[/quote]
Please refer to the stats posted by Twoo. They say it all.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='kash96ravenstotalfan' date='26 May 2010 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1274922303' post='414772']
Please refer to the stats posted by Twoo. They say it all.
[/quote]

Stats never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever, "say it all."

Ever.

[kash96ravenstotalfan]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='26 May 2010 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1274903219' post='414672']
Those numbers are actually pretty comparable. Then consider Ed Reed has one more year in the league.

Look folks they are asked to do different things. No one does what is asked of them better than these two. Chillax.
[/quote]
How do you see those number as pretty comparable???
Reed: 46 Int. for 1255 yds. vs Troy 20 Int. for 227 yds - Duh
6 times all pro 3 times all pro??

[H8R]

Troy picked our QB off in the playoffs and took it to the house ending our chances at a SuperBowl..... I wish he were out that game....

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='26 May 2010 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1274903219' post='414672']
Those numbers are actually pretty comparable. Then consider Ed Reed has one more year in the league.

Look folks they are asked to do different things. No one does what is asked of them better than these two. Chillax.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, the numbers are comparable? So one more year in the league accounts for 26 more interceptions, over 1000 more yards off interceptions, two more forced fumbles, and 5 more TDs? Troy has a couple extra sacks, that's about it...

All I know is, the rest of the NFL better hope that Reed was just excited when he said he felt like he was 25 again.

[kash96ravenstotalfan]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' date='26 May 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1274922961' post='414778']
I'm sorry, the numbers are comparable? So one more year in the league accounts for 26 more interceptions, over 1000 more yards off interceptions, two more forced fumbles, and 5 more TDs? Troy has a couple extra sacks, that's about it...

All I know is, the rest of the NFL better hope that Reed was just excited when he said he felt like he was 25 again.
[/quote]
Well, for sure, I am ecstatic the Reed feels like he is 25 again. LOL

[thewarden86]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' date='26 May 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1274922961' post='414778']
I'm sorry, the numbers are comparable? So one more year in the league accounts for 26 more interceptions, over 1000 more yards off interceptions, two more forced fumbles, and 5 more TDs? Troy has a couple extra sacks, that's about it...

All I know is, the rest of the NFL better hope that Reed was just excited when he said he felt like he was 25 again.
[/quote]

The INT's no; and those led to the TD's. But Ed is also put in the position to get picks 100% of the time whereas Troy is not.

What TD's Troy did have he broke nearly 11 tackle for. Ed? To the Ravens credit, they have always been good at lead blocking when they get a turnover.

The rest of the stats are VERY comparable considering the extra year in the league.

"Couple extra sacks" shows me how bias you actually are when you had to point out a whole 2 forced fumbles.

I'm sure the rest of the league is terrified.

[H8R]

Generally Ed doesn't even get touched cause he breaks ankles with the ball in his hand.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='26 May 2010 - 09:24 PM' timestamp='1274923463' post='414783']
The INT's no; and those led to the TD's. But Ed is also put in the position to get picks 100% of the time whereas Troy is not.

[b]What TD's Troy did have he broke nearly 11 tackle for. Ed? To the Ravens credit, they have always been good at lead blocking when they get a turnover.[/b]

The rest of the stats are VERY comparable considering the extra year in the league.

"Couple extra sacks" shows me how bias you actually are when you had to point out a whole 2 forced fumbles.

I'm sure the rest of the league is terrified.
[/quote]

Ed is one of the best players in the league with the ball in his hands. Troy has had some nice returns but Ed has proven himself a better defensive playmaker his career.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='H8R' date='26 May 2010 - 09:27 PM' timestamp='1274923676' post='414786']
Generally Ed doesn't even get touched cause he breaks ankles with the ball in his hand.
[/quote]

I've never noticed any crazy jukes, but he does seem to have some serious burst.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='26 May 2010 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1274923790' post='414788']
Ed is one of the best players in the league with the ball in his hands. Troy has had some nice returns but Ed has proven himself a better defensive playmaker his career.
[/quote]

I disagree. Sorry. Only about the better part that is. At this point, I'm actually beginning to feel bad for Troy for being such a team player and sticking with the scheme as it apparently hurts the recognition he deserves but for the stats. Fans only of course.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='26 May 2010 - 09:30 PM' timestamp='1274923811' post='414789']
I've never noticed any crazy jukes, but he does seem to have some serious burst.
[/quote]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SxfobeOrJ8[/media]

"Crazy jukes" can be found at 1:04 and 1:31.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='26 May 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1274923915' post='414791']
I disagree. Sorry. Only about the better part that is. At this point, I'm actually beginning to feel bad for Troy for being such a team player and sticking with the scheme as it apparently hurts the recognition he deserves but for the stats. Fans only of course.
[/quote]

Ed isn't the only FS in the league that plays center-field most of the time. And just because he plays deep doesn't guarantee interceptions. Yes, he has been on the receiving end of poorly thrown ball a good amount of his INT come from baiting QBs and jumping routes. And like people have said before, Ed racked up INTs back when he was playing SS.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='26 May 2010 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1274924108' post='414792']
[media][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SxfobeOrJ8"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3SxfobeOrJ8[/url][/media]

"Crazy jukes" can be found at 1:04 and 1:31.
[/quote]

Blocked. Remind me and I'll check it out later.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='26 May 2010 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1274924293' post='414795']
Blocked. Remind me and I'll check it out later.
[/quote]

Alright.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='26 May 2010 - 09:37 PM' timestamp='1274924277' post='414794']
Ed isn't the only FS in the league that plays center-field most of the time. And just because he plays deep doesn't guarantee interceptions. Yes, he has been on the receiving end of poorly thrown ball a good amount of his INT come from baiting QBs and jumping routes. And like people have said before, Ed racked up INTs back when he was playing SS.
[/quote]

I'm not saying Ed isn't great. I'm just not willing to concede that he's better than Troy. He may have more picks, but that does not account for 100% of the player's ability/contributions. Troy's job is somewhat thankless compared to Ed's, but he does it and he does it better than anyone. Make no mistake, Any QB who fears Ed Reed also fears Troy Polamalu. RB's fear Troy Polamalu as well.

[RAYvenFan20]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' date='26 May 2010 - 08:35 PM' timestamp='1274924108' post='414792']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SxfobeOrJ8[/media]

"Crazy jukes" can be found at 1:04 and 1:31.
[/quote]

i could watch that all day

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='thewarden86' date='26 May 2010 - 09:41 PM' timestamp='1274924476' post='414797']
I'm not saying Ed isn't great. I'm just not willing to concede that he's better than Troy. He may have more picks, but that does not account for 100% of the player's ability/contributions. Troy's job is somewhat thankless compared to Ed's, but he does it and he does it better than anyone. Make no mistake, Any QB who fears Ed Reed also fears Troy Polamalu. RB's fear Troy Polamalu as well.
[/quote]

Fair enough.

[H8R]

This is the final decision right here:

Troy looks like a Samoan Lady Boy with his wavy locks .....

Ed Looks like a homeless bum with his winter beard....


Figured I'd add a laugh to the conversation!

[thewarden86]

[quote name='H8R' date='26 May 2010 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1274924903' post='414802']
This is the final decision right here:

Troy looks like a Samoan Lady Boy with his wavy locks .....

Ed Looks like a homeless bum with his winter beard....


Figured I'd add a laugh to the conversation!
[/quote]

They should do a movie together. lol

[H8R]

LOLZ